re: items subcategory Edit

They are there; click the 'next 200' link and it will scroll through the list. Admittedly, it is a little unwieldy, but it works. - Pwr905 15:17, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

As it is a pretty public change that is immediately visible to everyone, I tend to defer to others. In this case, I would try Loleil or Snfonseka. - Pwr905 16:28, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Equipment Versus Inventory Edit

I can implement the changes you have requested but currently we have a category named as "Equipment". But we don't have "Inventory" category. So when I change the "Equipment" to "Inventory" there won't be any proper link to the corresponding category. So I think we need to implement "Inventory" category as well.... or do you wish to change only the name of "Equipment" to "Inventory" (Keeping the link to "Equipment category" without changing it)? Please clarify this. Thanks. -- Snfonseka 17:52, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

My take on items Edit

Thanks for bringing this issue up. I certainly agree that the items category needs work, but I wouldn't set it up exactly like your suggestion. I think "Inventory" is slightly misleading as group heading and would rather have it set up like this:

  • Equipment
    • Stays as is
  • Items (strip out armour and weapons from this category or make "items" the group heading and have equipment as a sub-heading)
    • Crafting items (lightning shard, frost rock, etc.)
    • Gifts
    • Plot items
    • Potions (slight problem as I would want to include all salves, poultices, etc. and they're not technically potions)
    • Recipes
    • Traps

So that's my proposal and until a bit of a consensus is reached I'd suggest we hold off making changes. Loleil 23:17, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

I've begun a forum topic (Forum:Item categories) to get some community feedback. Loleil 00:36, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Items Edit

You might want to hold off adding Items to the Wiki - Pwr905 has all the items ready to be uploaded already. Furthermore, I advise against using a high/low buy/sell system. The game only keeps tracks of the item value. The markup and markdowns are associated with the merchants. --Tierrie 18:03, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Quest Items Edit

I would stick with just the Quest Items page for now; when that is in a final state then I think moving on to Usable Items (a much larger category, it seems) can begin. I do have a comment, though.

  1. Take a peak at the wikicode for the Item Sets page; notice the transclusion. I'm presuming it was setup this way (and the many pages for items with little else on them besides an infobox) so that new users can have a centralized, relatively easy to edit location (ie: a page; not a page with a ton of table code on it) - along with the other benefits.
  2. Applying this logic to the Quest Items page, you now have a tricky situation since some of the quest items are redirects to a quest page, which makes it difficult.

Let me know your thoughts on this. - Pwr905 20:05, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I would try and give the page a more uniform look - in the sense of maybe changing the large headings to slightly smaller ones, change the Description section to a lead sentence if possible, etc. As to whether to categorize Juggernaut Armor (and other things like that), I'm not sure. I'll have to think on that.
I'll change the sidebar sometime later today.- Pwr905 16:24, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
I'd been considering changing the quest items to plot items, to match the in game description, but am happy to add a link while that is being resolved. I shall add runes. Loleil 22:32, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
I added the lines to ItemTransformer. I've upgraded the tables to sortable tables - which required some changes at the Header and Row level. In addition, Pwr905 is going to upload all the Items soon. So you might want to work on that. --Tierrie 22:35, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Its not showing up because you're not using the template correctly. You designed the ItemTables to be an independent table per row (old-style Item Tables). You're passing Toxin Extract as an row parameter to the template ItemTableHeader, which does not accept parameters. You will need to modify your ItemTableHeader and ItemTableRow to the new style - as actual table and table rows.

In addition, I might be making changes to the ItemTables in the near future as part of Project Juggernaut. Giving you a heads up. --Tierrie 20:41, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'll be glad when all the items are sorted too! Hopefully all the legwork we're doing now will make future expansions and games much easier to deal with. Loleil 21:55, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
I turned the ItemTableHeader into a table outline and ItemTableRow into rows for you. I apologize that there isn't an article for this (yet). I was going to do all the Tables for consistency and didn't occur to me that someone might take the initiative on one of them. Thanks for your work on it! -- tierrie talk contr 20:20, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Rune Pages Edit

I originally revamped the Runes Pages and I like the changes your made so far. I just wanted to point out a few things you may or may not know about Runes as well as suggest some improvements for it. Runes that are not Grandmaster Runes are pretty random. So I don't think its necessary to leave a location tag on them since they only be used by Grandmaster Runes. However, if you choose to leave it in, the period in your location= field is kind of fugly. Template it as {{{location|}}} which means location or _blank_. And you can omit the location= and nothing will show up. Good stuff. Oh and the one thing that really did bother me was the liberal usage of bold. I removed it since we want keep bold usage to a minimum - to denote super important information or titles of pages. You know, the good stuff. Cheers and keep up the great work! -- tierrie talk contr 02:48, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh one more thing - unless its necessary to make a table 80%, its best practice to make full usage of horizontal screen space. That way none of the data gets pushed downwards. You know what I mean? -- tierrie talk contr 02:52, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
I noticed you've been doing a lot of good work on the templates. Keep it up. You're using the <noinclude> tags to omit the rest of the page. Its easier and much cleaner to use <onlyinclude> to explicitly only include the Transformer. When you use a onlyinclude tag, it excludes everything else in the page. (Note: this is different from <includeonly> which is yet another tag). -- tierrie talk contr 17:17, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
So i put that tag at the very begining of the transformer outside the brackets?.. Got it, thanks.--Polexian 17:20, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Show/Hide Edit

No, its not possible to show or hide sections. -- tierrie talk contr 17:50, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Tables Edit

They look good as far as tables go. But I guess I should tell you now rather than later. I really hate tables :) They represent the lowest common denominator of data representation. And this is coming from the guy who made the original Tables styles. Personally, I think that if you can get away without using tables - you should. There are many better ways to present data. For example, the DLC page could have easily ended up as a hideous table. But, with the proper use of borders, icons and words, I think it represents the epitome of data presentation without tables. You know what I mean? And if you get a chance to present information without tables. You should take the chance.

After all, tables are glorified squares. With words. And maybe a picture ;)

Did I already mention I hate tables? :) -- tierrie talk contr 20:27, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

The beauty of the transformer is that you can transform it any way you want. I was hoping to use the same concept from DLC and put it into Companions. But, I didn't want to jump into the middle of someone else's work while they were working on it. Try the style with Companions. You will find it easier since there's a limited number of companions. And there are nearly 50+ quests. -- tierrie talk contr 20:33, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
I look forward to seeing what you've got planned. Friendship smallLoleil Talk 23:14, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Downloadable content Edit

No worries, I had been trying to hold off making significant changes to the sidebar as Tierrie had mentioned that he had some concerns about layout and I didn't want to complicate matters. However, I had noticed the lack of DLC to, so I shall link to Downloadable content under the Dragon Age series heading. Friendship smallLoleil Talk 03:48, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

We'll still be here if you need to to take a wiki holiday ;). Friendship smallLoleil Talk 04:01, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Companion presentation Edit

I like the way it looks, however, I would switch name and title and throw a "the" in-between, making it Alistair the Grey Warden. Friendship smallLoleil Talk 04:24, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

All links show yellow. If they are unlinked you can change the colour, but beyond that I'm not aware of any way to change colours. Sorry :(. Friendship smallLoleil Talk 04:38, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
I think there's a redirect set up for the secret companion so it should work fine. Smiley Friendship smallLoleil Talk 05:16, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

re:gifts page.... Edit

thanks about the transformer tip I was was inputting all night and almost finished and realized I forgot it lol. Ya I was making the items so a better table can be implemented these gift tables are bad, those and the at-a-glance tables, scare me too. If you like, sure, I'd rather like to keep the theme for items, goes for nice eye candy, wow tables being eye candy I am out of it :P  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 21:07, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

k cool, would it be possible to have location on a sort of notes line invisible to the item box (edit: but visible on the gift item table) on the page so we can leave location on the body of the page, I don't want dup. info but I like to have some information on the body of the page. all this info heavy info boxes makes the rest of the page feel useless, and I am trying to remedy that.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 21:50, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, snap what happened to the other plot item table I liked that one better it kept with the weapons/armor tables. I didn't realized you changed it. : /  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 22:02, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Well improving tables is great, the site needs a facelift, I just don't think thats pretty, imo, at least when listing more that 5 items, it looks cluttered to me and if I am going to list 80+ gifts that is not a table I'd use.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 23:29, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
Ya, I think the redheader only is definitely cleaner looking.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 00:55, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
I am prolly gonna play with some templates tables tomorrow. Since there is no set scheme on tables for the site, I am gonna play with it for a bit.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 01:50, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


I thought about the benefits and tradeoffs and I decided to unprotect ItemTransformer. I'll leave it unprotected until such a time when you're done with it and reprotect it in the future. Cheers! -- tierrie talk contr 22:10, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Mockup Edit

I noticed you were working on Template:GiftItemDisplay and seemed to be deciding on the format. At first glance, I see that there's a lot of blank space that is unused. Around the icon and to the right of the gift. I put together a mockup with some changes that focus on reducing the amount of blank space. See if there's anything interesting in my code that you could use. -- tierrie talk contr 02:08, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

I was working on the same thing except I was thinking of putting a description on the right, but yours is much better. I'm gonna roll with yours.Polexian 02:11, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
I removed the outmost div tag and removed the display: table-row. I think it looks much better, but your opinion might differ. Since its your project, feel free to do whatever you think looks better.
As a tip, the smaller the icon size, the smaller you want the padding to be. I have shrunk the icon to pretty small and used a padding of 1 px and it comes out beautifully. -- tierrie talk contr 02:15, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
I noticed that you rely on the Templates to make links out of your name. That's very sweet and all, but sometimes name and the item pages differ. For example, pluralization changes the page location (Dagger vs Daggers). As does disambiguation (Duncan's Shield vs Duncan's Shield (Gift)). This is the reason most templates don't link the name, but pass it through. An added bonus is if that link's target is the page its on it will change it from a link to bold text. -- tierrie talk contr 03:10, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Icons Edit

Couldn't see what was causing it, but changing the templates to side-be-side seems to have fixed it. Friendship smallLoleil Talk 04:48, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

We'll make Tierrie work it out ;). Friendship smallLoleil Talk 04:58, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Not lining up Edit

I see you've already fixed the problem with the tables not lining up. Just for your information, when you use float, funny things happen including things not lining up properly. I couldn't give you any advice that is more concrete right now without seeing an example. -- tierrie talk contr 18:04, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Sidebar requests Edit

There are a few reasons why walkthrough isn't on the sidebar. First and foremost it isn't even close to being half finished, until it is, I don't feel comfortable with sending people there. Secondly, I've been considering moving the title to "Storyline", to more accurately reflect its content, and finally the walkthrough category (which walkthrough uses) is up for deletion. Until all of that is resolved I'd rather it wasn't up there and in the mean time it shouldn't be too hard for people to find with the search box.

As to classes, with the exact same information is on the category page there is no real need to change that link. The characters category links to the page on main characters while also providing the ability to search through many more, so the category provides a more comprehensive option. Friendship smallLoleil Talk 22:28, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Your signature Edit

Your signature is missing a </sup> and </span> tag -- tierrie talk contr 23:18, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Seen it right after I saved, what an ars I am. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 23:31, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

transformer Edit

Thanks for letting me know it was the transformer, I didn't see a sig and since you were not the person I asked, naturally, I would think it was the person I did. I knew I was missing something, but I am fine, I was mostly due to lack of sleep couldn't think outside my templates being wrong, forgetting that it actually needed to be added cause my info is new.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 01:03, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Spoilers for Others Edit

Could you explain that example you gave about Redcliffe and the Spoiler? -- tierrie talk contr 03:19, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

We will do the Brecilian Forest on Plot Items
If you look you have the red title bard for the forest, what if we made these into a spoiler like you created, click on the titlebar, and the items appear that were hidden before. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 04:22, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Font Size Edit

Could you return the font size of your display format back to the normal font size. It is tiny and barely readable. -- tierrie talk contr 17:52, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

which page? --Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 17:55, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
Your display formats. Gifts and Runes are the ones that come to mind. You're obviously learning useful things with the templates, but, why are you revising pages that are functionally and visually working? In this case I'm referring to your Runes changes. I'm looking at it before and after, and I prefer the table format. -- tierrie talk contr 18:04, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
If you can get away without tables, by all means, use a format that is not a table. However, if you cannot - eg, Weapons, Armors, Recipes, Runes, then by all means, use the best table you can. The tricky question is "which ones do I use a table with and which one doesnt?". Common sense should prevail here, if you look at the page before and after, make a unbiased comparison. If you think it looks better, keep it. Otherwise, dump it. Another rule of thumb I like to use is this - is there a lot of the item? If there is, then maybe a table with short rows is the best. If there isn't, like DLC, then maybe each section can get a bigger vertical chunk of the space. I'm not saying you need to change anything right now, just keep these in mind. I see that you've hit the 1000 edit mark, and also want to congratulate you for your contributions. -- tierrie talk contr 18:19, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
[cc'ed Tierrie]Font size is changed, I was trying to mimic info box size but is bigger now. Oh, and if I am gonna be referred to a particular sex, Polexian, I am the female one :P  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 02:58, January 23, 2010 (UTC)


Wanted to ask if there is any intention of expanding talents pages? For now its just the data the game itself provides by hovering the mouse over talent/spell. Would it be inappropriate to add some comments based on the gameplay experience? Is that saved for discussions only?


Meikin 19:13, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Actually I am currently working on Skills/Spells/Talents, and until I get them all inputted mouse over can't even be conceived. As for the mouse overs itself, myself and Tierrie want them as well, and is on our to-do-lists, if I don't success I am sure Tierrie will. This request was my first request, as well, so you are not alone in the matter.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 01:52, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

 :) Edit

Thanks for the compliment. I am working on spells/talents/skills next, wish me luck :P  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 01:45, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Braces around names Edit

Polexian, my templates require braces around links to create the links. I don't rely on templates to create that link because sometimes the name and the page differs. If you let the template create links, you will also run into disambiguation issues in the future. Let the user enter the links manually. -- tierrie talk contr 23:18, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

So, take out all the braces on my templates to let the user do it manually. Got it. I hope I don't get grounded because of this. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 23:57, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Adding Quest Boxes to Speciliazation Edit

The Arcane Warrior is not a quest its a Specialization - if you want to document the Unlocking try creating 'Arcane Warrior (Unlocking)' or add the box at the 'Unlocking' header.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 16:00, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Your right. I'm just working on this section now. Doing multiple edit. I'll fix that in a bit. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 16:02, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Nowiki Edit

There's no way to include a Template if there's a nowiki used. The tag is specifically designed to stop wiki code from parsing. Whoever is putting nowiki tags around your code is either doing it intentionally or doing it accidentally. In the former, then they want to stop your code from being parsed - perhaps they want to show it being used as an example. In the latter, that person made a mistake and the error needs to be corrected. -- tierrie talk contr 18:00, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

I see what you mean. You're using the image as a link to the article as well. This is a great idea. I wish I could do that for armor as well but it would just be hideous (all the armor of the weight class share the same icon). The solution to your problem is to use this template {{#sub:{{{name|}}}|2|-2}} to strip out the first two and last two characters for the for the image. I ran across the same problem when I was working on Template:RecipeTableRow. You can use that as an example of how to create links in images. -- tierrie talk contr 19:32, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Gifts Edit

I do agree the look-up table needs to be prettier but it should still be sortable. I am currently doing Merchant Item Lists, I was going to work on pretty look up tables after, which I guess would include the gift table. Unless you have any ideas on prettying up look-up tables :)  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 04:44, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Simply because there is a need for sortable lists on this wiki (and this is the first list to try it on, I mean have you seen those at-a-glance tables, they make me cringe) and we need to find something between pretty and practical. Everything I have made prettier I have had one person complain... "Uh, before it had this... and I liked it better" ... (most of the time I hadn't gotten to that element in my change over (and so far every request has been fulfilled without the expense of making things ugly), but people still like what they had even if it was ugly, you can't take away viable information that works best sortable (or if the majority likes better sortable), it's not the point of a multi-editor-wiki site). But that means every time you change something, someone is gonna say 'I liked it better before', especially if it did serve a purpose that worked. And also the fact we had a admin say it should still be sortable, so even if in alpha order and looked awesome, it might get undone by an admin so that be pointless. Ya, I know it sucks but it sucks more when you get people messaging you, 'change it back it was better the way before'.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 15:08, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
Your right, I'm going to continue to work on my quest pages, and then when I am done we can brainstorm on this gift thing. Gray and black tables do nothing for me. :) Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 16:10, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
Agreed, when I asked an editor who was added a bunch of these at-a-glance tables to maybe do the tables in their sandbox till they had a finished project cause, I noticed they were updating live on the page and it was looking worse than the gift page, they freaked out at me and said it was finished to their liking and that it was only missing info (I so wanted to /wrists). Maybe I have a MUST BE PRETTY complex but man these grey/black sortables just give me an eye twitch I swear.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 16:25, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh btw, this is my result on the sortable lists so far.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 16:10, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Gift Prefer Alistair Dog Leliana Morrigan Oghren Shale Sten Wynne Zevran Secret Companion
Plt ico black grimoire Black Grimoire
Ico mug of ale Ale
Tre ico book 1 The Search for the True Prophet
Ico cheap wine Wine

That looks awesome, but it takes a lot to put it on the pages. :( Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦ ♠♠Leave Message♠♠ 19:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
When editing the Gifts page, use the templates located in Gifts/accept, Gifts/reject, Gifts/plot and Gifts/likes. The way it is handled currently is perfect. -- tierrie talk contr 22:58, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
Tierrie is right, I have already updated the Gifts/accept, Gifts/reject, Gifts/plot and Gifts/likes, this model is just so you can see what it will look like. In fact the only change will be header/cells/ and the adding the itemini template. So it won't take anytime really at all, in fact I have it ready pretty much for anytime. Hollowness | Talk | Contr 05:05, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Spoilers Edit

Just wanted to give you a heads up. There's a discussion on spoilers in the forums and the styles have been updated. Let me know what you think, and if you can describe why you like it - that's even better. -- tierrie talk contr 22:58, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Plot items Edit

Hi Polexian. I know you've been doing lots of good work on items, including plot items, lately. I don't suppose you could take a look at the article Bevin's Key? It's been flagged for deletion, but I didn't want to get rid of it if, according to the scheme you're introducing, it should be kept. If you think it should, you can just remove the delete tag with a note of why - if you agree it can go then I'd appreciate it if you could drop me a message. Thanks! Zoev talk 02:14, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your note, and for sorting out that page! It may indeed be the first time we've talked, though I've been seeing your name around the wiki such a lot lately that didn't occur to me. Belatedly then, let me say hello properly! Or like Sandal, at any rate. Hello! Zoev talk 03:50, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

vandalism Edit

Thanks for the heads up about the vandalism! I've blocked the user. User:Loleil was fairly recently thinking about which pages should be restricted to registered users, so I'll leave her to make the decision on whether the two you suggested should be added to the list. Zoev talk 12:51, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

By the way, as you know I'm new as an admin so I'm still a bit hazy on how to do stuff, but as long as vandalism hasn't already been reverted, admins do have a way of undoing it without leaving a trail in the page history. However, this only seems to work on the very last change made, so if you revert a change then I can't roll it back (I've just mucked up the history of Companions trying this out). Just thought I'd let you know this so you can decide in future whether to revert a change yourself or just alert an admin, though I think you probably made the right call in this case getting rid of the vandalism as quickly as possible rather than waiting for an admin to do it! Zoev talk 13:06, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Items Edit

Heya, I have been trying to help with the effort, adding plot items and images to existing plot items. I also added a Category: Keys and Keys page. Hope this all helps the cause :)  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 15:49, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, a lot of the icons are already down loaded just tricky to find cause its not under the name of the item or it has the same picture as another item but named after another item. But Ya, I been doing zone item lists and trying to add plot items as I go.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 16:04, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Images Edit

I know I have looked there already.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 05:09, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

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