|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wilhelm article.|
Is Wilhem the one referenced in the child's rhyme at the abandoned orphanage? http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Abandoned_Orphanage
"Do you hear me Ser Wilhem, Ser Wilhem? I am falling Ser Wilhem, Ser Wilhem, today. I'm a maiden Ser Wilhem. Ser Wilhem? But I'm dying Ser Wilhem, Ser Wilhem. In pain."
- Mages do not hold the title Ser in any of the games. Mictlantecuhtli (talk) 02:27, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
Status as a mage
I think that Wilhelm's status as a mage living outside the Circle with a son (which, head writer David Gaider has stated is prohibited for Circle mages since they are taken away by the Chantry, according to Chantry law) should be addressed. I think it's important since Wilhelm seems to be an exception to this, and it may be tied to his service in the Orlesian war under two different Ferelden leaders. Given the tension between Ferelden and Orlais after the liberation of the occupation, it might be possible that Wilhelm received a royal boon similar to Loghain and The Warden, explaining why he is living outside of the Circle Tower with his wife and child. I think a link to Gaider's post verifying the fact that the Chantry prohibits Circle mages from keeping their children would be necessary as well. Lobsel Vith (talk) 15:33, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
- You're speculating that because of his services for Ferelden, he received a royal boon like the Warden. That's why it was removed. --D. (talk · contr) 17:20, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
I addressed it as a possibility, and didn't try to label it as anything else. Given the mentions of possibilities of him being a blood mage and the like, I don't see the problem. The head writer has addressed that Circle mages can't raise their own children, while Wilhelm clearly can. I don't see what's wrong in providing the most likely reason for this and highlighting that it's speculation until we get the matter clarified. Since I provided a link from David Gaider where he explicitly addressed that Circle mages can't raise their own children, and Wilhelm isn't even living in a Circle Tower, I don't see your problem with this. If you think it should be worded differently, that's fine, but if Wilhelm is clearly living outside the Circle with a child without templars hunting him down, then it's an issue that readers should be made aware of. Lobsel Vith (talk) 18:00, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
- The fact that it is addressed is speculation. There's another possibility that he could simply decide to run off the Circle, faked his death. I could write it as another reason why he's in this village. Maybe he was given a mission from the Chantry to do some research, as some Circle mages are granted (such as Wynne and Pharamond). How can you prove this is not the case? It could also be just a plot hole, or something the writers of the DLC did not think. It's not unheard of.
- I don't know everything regarding the lore in Dragon Age, but the saying that because he worked on demonology means he was doing blood magic also appears as speculation. --D. (talk · contr) 18:31, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
Wilhelm was a war hero. Addressing that he might have received a boon like Loghain did isn't unlikely. He served under Moira and Maric, after all. It's a possibility, that's all. Wynne is given permission to leave during the Fifth Blight to aid a Grey Warden. Ines is given permission to leave to investigate a plant that is rumored to grow in Blighted soil after the Fifth Blight has devastated some of Ferelden. If Wilhelm ran from the Circle, why does he communicate with mages in the Circle? If he's in hiding, why is he a mage living with a golem in a village full of people? Why does the Circle even address Wilhelm's death officially to his wife when he died, if he was an apostate? Lobsel Vith (talk) 18:44, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
- The moment you start adding possibilities within an article, it's saying we're okay with adding any sort of speculations on article. Another editor could add their own theories on why he was allowed to live outside of the Chantry. This is what I was getting at with my previous comment. I'm not saying it's unlikely that he was given a boon given his services, but it's certainly speculation.
- Regarding the letter, I forgot about that, but my point is still there: this is speculation. --D. (talk · contr) 18:55, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
You have a good point. I've amended the article to include the link to Gaider's comment on Circle mages being prohibited from having children, but I've left out any speculation on the matter. I'll leave it up to the reader to come to his or her own conclusions on the matter. I've also removed the mention of blood magic since you previously said it reads like speculation as well. Lobsel Vith (talk) 19:27, January 6, 2012 (UTC)
At 3:21:57 of "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAYqGrwVDQY" Oghren/Shale have a discussion that seems to imply that Wilhelm wasn't as terrible a master as Shale makes him out to be. Oghren says that Shale may even have "liked" Wilhelm, which partially explains her bitterness and why she keeps going on and on about how humans are so easy to kill. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 03:06, January 18, 2015 (UTC)
additional info on Wilhelm
I'm unsure if it is important enough to merit being included in this article (or whether he should be added to the appropriate 'characters by country' category), but Wynne relates in a party banter (with Shale) that Wilhelm was originally from the Free Marches.