Talk:Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts

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Notes...

Inventory

There is no merchant once the mission begins. Compounded with an excess of valuable items, within the mission, you quickly run out of space to carry stuff. Be sure to hit up a merchant and clear out ALL unnecessary goods before starting this mission.

Being the pack rat that I am, I keep most high value upgrades (a curse be upon those high value slotless equipment), plus high level equipment (seriously DA, equipment five levels higher than my when I attained them?). This means, that even with 75 inventory slots, I had to destroy many low value items in the latter third of the mission.

P.S. Don't forget to hit the merchant after the mission as well! Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 01:13, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Two solutions for this since this post: Use the chest in the undercroft of Skyhold and as of Trespasser, there is now a Merchant in the Winter Palace. DaBarkspawn (talk) 06:07, October 11, 2015 (UTC)

requirements

the requirements for certain options seem to be wrong or inaccurate, I had 99 admiration and enough proof to successfully accuse Gaspard but chosing that Celine and Briana should reconsile earns Briana an exile? 109.59.64.48 (talk) 00:39, December 8, 2014 (UTC)

You need the Elven locket found in the vault upstairs in the Grand Apartments area of the Servants Quarters that requires 3 halla statuettes to open. Then show to Celene's ladies in waiting to talk to Celene about the elven locket and then show it to Briala for the lovers to reconcile. 92.23.200.193 (talk) 06:59, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

How to deal with the short side/sub quests

A lot of them don't have their own journal entries and are just subordinate to the main quest, so I wasn't too sure how to handle them.--TubbyM0ph0 (talk) 04:17, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Montbelliard's Ring

I kept the ring and told the noblewoman to keep searching, which completes the quest. I couldn't tell though if completing the quest that way earned any XP or Influence. Confirmation would be appreciated. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 07:55, January 7, 2015 (UTC)

Color code

Would it help make the Court approval changes stand out if we color-coded them? Green for positive approval and red for negative. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 01:24, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

I was thinking the new approval template could be used. Court Approval 5 While we're on the subject, I was thinking something more could be done to the template to make it stand out. For DA:O, there was red and green. For, DA:II there was red and blue. There really isn't something like that in place in the game itself, so I was wondering if it would benefit to make the text the same color as the icon. Something like Court Approval -10 It's still pretty true to how it's displayed in-game. --TubbyM0ph0 (talk) 02:50, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I like that! It would definitely make the numbers stand out better. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 03:19, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to go through and make this change. I kept getting confused about the approval gains and loses while reading through this and I think that would help a lot. Heidirs (talk) 01:00, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

New Bug

On my first run on PS3 since the recent patch, there appears to be a bug in Halamshiral. When trying to go to the Vestibule from the Ballroom, it will go to a loading screen as normal but when it finishes loading you're back in the Ballroom as if you never even left. Is anyone but me having this?--Dracowrath (talk) 17:24, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

On closer inspection, I realized the problem. For some reason there are two things to target on that door from the Ballroom: Grand Ballroom and Vestibule. You have to carefully aim at the Vestibule part and hit X to go through, otherwise it'll just load the Ballroom again.--Dracowrath (talk) 17:27, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

Gaspard kills Briala

If you choose the third dialogue option after letting Celene die and having Gaspard rule unopposed, Gaspard says to Briala "Your death tonight will bring stability to the Empire." Should it be noted on the page that Gaspard kills her if he rules alone? DRAEVAN13 00:14, March 10, 2015 (UTC)

Reconciling Briala & Celene + Orlesian Banner?

Is it possible to both reconcile Briala & Celene and aquire the Orlesian Banner? The article seems to indicate that it isn't but I wanted to be sure before starting the quest. 37.2.110.224 (talk) 13:52, March 13, 2015 (UTC)

Yes I just did it. Reconciling Celene and Briala only requires 3 statues. You can do what you want with the other 8. :) Eternalspirit (talk) 17:35, July 10, 2015 (UTC)

Rogue-Opened Doors in the Solo Areas

I've so far run across two locked doors requiring a rogue to open in the main areas where you can't have your companions with you. Now, I am not a rogue (I'm a mage), and I'm a bit peeved that I can't find a way to get these open (I can't even find where Varrik is hiding as well). I guess I will just keep going forward in the quest and hope I can come back here with a rogue companion later on, but this is quite annoying... Ulithium Dragon (talk) 03:18, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

Some of the companion approval notes are incorrect. To be specific, choosing to implicate Briala (Briala is an accomplice) had Cole greatly disapprove, as opposed to Iron Bull approving. --108.7.204.136 (talk) 10:58, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

All Superb Schematics

Just finished Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, and immediately afterwards, I get the Special Shipment in the Skyhold Undercroft that contains all the Superb Schematics of the Dragon for the Deluxe Edition.--BarGamer (talk) 20:43, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Amulet of Power

In my run through, the amulet for Vivienne did not appear in the vault loot, so I changed "always" to "sometimes". It may have something to do with the fact that I went though the Harlequin fight first, but that's purely a hypothesis. DaBarkspawn (talk) 01:45, May 3, 2015 (UTC)

Update: amulet removed in patch 5.

Major rewrite

I closely documented the section of the scenario between talking to Leliana and talking to Morrigan. The main objective was to interleave all of the quests together into a single walkthrough. I freely admit to inventing the -> business in order to point out which subquest was involved. If there's a standard way of indicating this, let me know. It's late here now, but as I continue my playthrough, I will attempt the same sort of threading for later sequences that are complex enough to merit it. DaBarkspawn (talk) 05:19, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Major rewrite complete. I'm removing the cleanup tag. DaBarkspawn (talk) 07:36, May 7, 2015 (UTC)

Very impressive! Thank you for all your work on this! --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 03:49, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! DaBarkspawn (talk) 05:17, May 8, 2015 (UTC)

Hey, HD3: I noticed that you put the cleanup tag back on. Can you specify what further cleanup you think is required? DaBarkspawn (talk) 07:20, May 10, 2015 (UTC)

Per text of cleanup tag, I've asked for discussion of what cleanup is needed and received no feedback after a week. Removing tag. DaBarkspawn (talk) 18:07, May 17, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought I replied to this ages ago. For one thing, there are all the deadlinks, we could also use some more headers and footers to help make it a bit more readable.

Check out Legacy (quest) for an example -HD3 ^(Talk) 02:51, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

I've fixed most of the redlinks and also cut out some stuff that isn't vital. Mostly loot containers that don't have anything unique or valuable in them--we don't need to make the article so lengthy as to be confusing to readers trying to just get through the main quests. I didn't mess with the headers and footers, or the abbreviations and layout-type stuff, but it could probably use some more cleaning. I don't think there's a need to note all of the "take two steps to the right and turn around" info but I left most of it for the time being. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 04:22, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the cleanup, Kelcat. I've been on the road for eleven days and leaving again tomorrow, so I've not had time to give this the attention it deserves. DaBarkspawn (talk) 04:34, June 11, 2015 (UTC)

Court Approval

When first talking with Celene (section 2.3), the top option doesn’t give any court approval changes to my human rogue inquisitor. (Dorian, Iron Bull and Blackwall in my party) I don't know if the 10 point court approval requires certain party members or if it is just not given to rogues. --Mnfroggie (talk) 02:12, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Split

As we do with many other boss battles (Loghain Mac Tir (strategy) and The Elder One (strategy), for instance) I am proposing we move the entire strategy section of Florianne to a new article called Florianne de Chalons (strategy). --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 04:39, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

seconded

-HD3 ^(Talk) 11:32, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

thirded :) Asherinka (talk) 11:53, June 6, 2015 (UTC)

Done --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 03:42, June 11, 2015 (UTC)

Walkthrough Issues

The walkthrough is very confusing in some parts due to the way directions are given. The Find the Harlequin section for example: "RJS: From the fountain return to the main path and take a left and another left."

What is considered the main path? There is a wall behind me since i jumped down and a wall ahead of me. For me the main path would have been the path i was walking in this context. At the end of the RJS description it says return to the fountain where you found the body and next it says go north. So if you should go north from the fountain when not taking the RJS detour, one could assume that since west and east is blocked, south is the path to go. So i go south and then take the left and i get to a locked door. After much confusion it turns out it should really have said right, if it means the direction the character is facing when moving in the direction specified. I think things would be easier if directions would be described as "north, south, east and west" instead since right and left are dependent on the direction of the character.

--212.181.211.138 (talk) 17:48, June 19, 2015 (UTC)Endasil

Yes, this page is very much still a WIP. If you look at the page history, you will see that a number of us have taken swings at major rewrites of the page. The multi-threaded aspect of the overlapping quests makes this one in particular difficult to present in a linear format. You are welcome to suggest or even do changes if you think they would make the page more clear. DaBarkspawn (talk) 18:02, June 19, 2015 (UTC)

Forgive my wiki noobness, but I think I'm doing this right... Anywhoo. This article could really stand to be split into 3 articles, dependent upon which choice you'd like to make. It would make all the sidequest/halla here/red jenny chest there/ much more linear if you KNOW that by going with choice A, you can completely ignore X. For example, let's say I want to have Celene and Briala reconcile. If there was an article like "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts: Celene and Briala Reconcile", it would be considerably more linear than the "go here if you want to do this, but don't do this or else that". I've been trying to follow this guide for nearly 2 hours and I've restarted the quest three times, because I simply have to look in too many places to get a straight answer. This article for walkthrough, but "Herd of Halla" for specific locations and times when I can access them, etc... it's just so poorly formatted. Spread it out. Make it so that page "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" leads to a brief overview of the mission and the 3 major choices. Then, make a separate page for each "version" of the quest. Each page would be linked in the "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" main article (this article). Thoughts? 174.103.230.11 (talk) 00:35, November 19, 2015 (UTC)

Eavesdrop Probabilities

For the record, it just took my Qunari mage inquisitor SEVEN retries in the garden spot to get the blackmail result. DaBarkspawn (talk) 02:27, July 9, 2015 (UTC)

Celene and Briala Achievement?

Does this actually exist? I reconciled them and didn't get one for it. I'm removing the achievement part of it for now. Eternalspirit (talk) 17:39, July 10, 2015 (UTC)

Coin Availability

The 13th coin, found in the ballroom, is actually available when the 8th coin is found, also in the ballroom. Consolidating these two entries and renumbering the remaining coins may help simplify the article, if marginally. 205.178.43.76 (talk) 20:04, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

new info

"Let's dance" was court approval 3 for me as female Dalish Mage, casual difficulty, saved Templars.

"Orlais' war is Thedas' war" was also 3.

"Is that what we both want?" Was also 3.

"Which am I to you?." Similarly was 3.

"I trust.. (Underworld)", also 3.

"Isn't everyone?" Also 3.

I was also docked 10 approval points at the beginning for being an elf. And it told me so explicitly.

All other options I tested were the same as currently listed.

Version 1.09, I *think*.

198.144.209.5 (talk) 03:26, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to take a guess and say that you had 97 approval when you spoke to her, and selected "let's dance", right?

I am also a female Dalish mage - though I saved the mages - I've played through this scene 3 times,... once when I had 96 approval (I earned "4" for each of all of the things you mentioned), once when I was at 98 approval (I earned "2" for each of all of them), and the last time that I played through it, I had 99 approval when I spoke to her and selected "let's dance" (I earned "1" for all of those options). In each case, when the scene was over, I had 100 approval. 184.90.183.204 (talk) 03:08, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

No split longbow grip schematic

So a split longbow grip schematic didn't drop for me, instead I got a split something dagger schematic.

Rewrite Opinion

This is one of the worst and most convoluted walkthroughs I've ever read; I'd recommend the entire thing be rewritten.

In the meantime if anybody is looking, this walkthrough is phenomenal: http://forum.bioware.com/topic/542866-simplified-wicked-eyes-and-wicked-hearts-walkthrough/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceponatia (talk • contribs)

A wiki is a community edited project, where the community includes you. Feel free to make changes. My personal opinion is that the walkthrough you link to is simpler, but actually too simple. It steers through one particular set of choices and does not advise about choices other than those. For example, there is no mention at all of the Red Jenny's Stashes subquest. DaBarkspawn (talk) 19:59, September 6, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah that walkthrough is a good one if you want a simple runthrough that skips most side stuff, but for the wiki we need to include all of the side quests. I've toyed with the idea of cutting out all the caprice coin locations completely since we have Throwing Away Money, and maybe splitting some of the side quests out into separate pages as well. Otherwise, if you have specific suggestions of what could be changed, it would be great if you could list them here. Saying it's "the worst" doesn't really help us improve things, and we're not going to plagiarize someone else's guide, no matter how great it is. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 01:56, September 7, 2015 (UTC)

Caprice coins, halla statues, etc

Given that we've got Throwing Away Money and Herd of Stone Halla and this article is already weighty, are there any objections to cutting out the details of getting each and every coin and halla from this article and just referencing the side quest articles? --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 00:38, October 9, 2015 (UTC)

I am (at this very moment!) doing another run through. Can we wait on this a bit until I finish and then do the move? I don't want to just reference the other articles, I want to improve the other articles with some of the content we remove from here. DaBarkspawn (talk) 00:45, October 9, 2015 (UTC)

I'm absolutely fine with that! --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 01:08, October 9, 2015 (UTC)

Oh man, Kelcat, that took a lot longer than I thought it would. Plan of attack was this:

1. Because Wikia wikis won't let you link to list items, overhaul the four major side quest pages (Throwing Away Money, Herd of Stone Halla, Red Jenny's Stashes, and The Great Blackmail Hunt) so that individual locations are linkable: change lists to sections. At this stage, I more or less kept what was on the original pages in terms of descriptions.
2. Go through the main quest page, removing side quest descriptions where practical (sometimes a side quest item was part of something else, like talking to Germain), merging those descriptions into the locations on the side quest pages (this required some back and forth editing with the main quest page) and then inserting a link to that location section on the side quest page on the main quest page.
3. Cleaned up grammar as needed. In particular, "3 halla" should be "three halla" and there was a lot of parenthetical pseudo-English that I converted to real sentences.

Something that would awesome that I don't know how to do would be to make the links hoverable like with equipment links. That way, as someone was going through the main quest, they could just mouse over the link to get the instruction without leaving the main quest page, tabbing out, etc. DaBarkspawn (talk) 06:03, October 11, 2015 (UTC)

I know alot of work has gone into editing this quest - I appreciate that, truly - but I have to say I find this walkthrough confusing in the extreme. I recommend removing all of the detail about the side quests (the side quests that appear in the Journal, that is. Not the "invisible" ones.) And I recommend the other pages have the locations (hallas, coins, secrets) put back into chronological order. That way, you can see at a glance how many hallas/coins/secrets you should have at any given stage of the quest.

I'm happy to help with editing, just don't want to step on anyone's toes. Ness csr (talk) 12:54, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

I understand that opinion and I think it is a matter of taste. The rebuttal I would make are the same ones made here: Talk:Wicked_Eyes_and_Wicked_Hearts#Rewrite_Opinion, that the purpose of this walkthrough is to cover all of the options in a unified way. The fact that there are multiple things going on at once in the game is what is confusing, not the attempt to wikify them. Removing them means that if a person wanted to do all four subquests and get everything right, they'd be flicking between five different pages and the game. I think that is both more confusing and more error prone in the sense they they are more likely to miss a coin or a document or something. DaBarkspawn (talk) 14:34, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

I think you've done a fantastic job with this article dabarkspawn, and it's truly appreciated! I know you put a lot of work into it. I do still think that we can trim some "fat" off of this though to make it more user-friendly. A walkthrough on a wiki in my opinion should be a little more succinct. It should give you enough detailed information to make it through the main part of the quest but leave the side stuff--including unneccessary chests, specific places of codex entries, caprice coins, etc--to the side. We need to strike a balance between having a bare-bones bullet-point walkthrough and a gamefaqs-type overly detailed completionist walkthrough.

I too, would like to see all of the side quest info excised from the article. The point of having them on a separate article is to keep them separate from each other. If someone wants to be a completionist, then yes they would have to look at multiple articles, just as they have to with any other main quest that has sub quests. Let's make it primarily accessible to people who aren't necessarily interested in completionism and just want some help getting through specific parts of this main quest. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 18:30, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to start editing the page. At this stage I'm only looking to simplify the side quests; everything else should pretty much be left intact. I'm happy to take any feedback as I go through & of course, edits can be undone if there are any huge concerns ;). Ness csr (talk) 22:22, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

To further cut out extraneous info, I'm removing the specific locations of all codex entries and generic loot containers. We don't have these on other main quest articles, and I think it's a bit of overkill. It's enough to just have a list at the end of the codex entries that can be found. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 06:18, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

I really wish you wouldn't trim it out so much. Having to go search out on multiple pages and try and link it to points in a walkthrough thus missing locations because the (semi-linear) collectibles aren't listed in appropriate points in the walkthrough is super annoying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.210.22.112 (talk)

The article is already extremely long and the main quest is intricate enough without adding side quest details. There's only so much info we can have on an article before it's just too bogged down--this isn't gamefaqs after all. It's a compromise between an overly long walkthrough and a too short bare-bones walkthrough. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 03:04, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

It's not a compromise at all. It is an enforcement of an absurdly minimalist aesthetic that makes the wiki less useful and harder to follow. Watching the edit trail of people slowly moving side quest items back in shows that lots of people want a simple walkthough that covers all of the bases without forcing the reader to swap between several different wiki pages. I think the use case you are missing or ignoring is that while going through WEWH, people switch back and forth between the game and the wiki page. WEWH is probably the most complicated quest line in the entire game, with a large number of things happening at once. Having all of that in one place is not "bogged down", it is convenient and clear. I thus hereby move that we revert this page to http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Wicked_Eyes_and_Wicked_Hearts?oldid=760143 , which is in line with what the readership wants, even if it doesn't correspond with the admin's current aesthetic. I say current, because there was a time ("Very impressive! Thank you for all your work on this!") when you approved of this page in its previous state. DaBarkspawn (talk) 04:29, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

I suppose in the future I'll be more careful of giving users compliments Next time I'll go through all the info with a fine-tuned comb to make sure I have no objections whatsoever before offering a compliment. I am against merging it all together and stand by my opinion that it would be over-complicating matters as not everyone is looking for a complete runthrough. Again, this is not gamefaqs. However, if consensus is to have it be overly complicated I won't object. However, please do not make it out to be that I am the only against such a change, and please stop attempting to villify me, here and elsewhere. I'm just an admin, not a boss--nothing I do has final authority (outside of enforcing guidelines) and I will always bow to the consensus of the community. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 04:58, January 11, 2016 (UTC)

Lady Mantillion

I was able to do that at the point specified before it was moved to later on. DaBarkspawn (talk) 14:39, October 12, 2015 (UTC)

I did that quest last night and couldn't talk to her at that point. From memory I think there's a trigger - possibly talking to the Council of Herald's guy but initially she essentially tells you to leave her alone.

EDIT: After some testing I think this is tied to approval. I'm guessing but were you a rogue/warrior when you played through? As a mage my court approval starts lower & climbs slower. At 60 she wouldn't talk to me, at 70 she would - I had to go as far as talking to the Council of Heralds vassal to get my approval up high enough. I've put a note to this effect on the page with a ^{[confirmation needed]} tag & put it back where it was. Ness csr (talk) 01:12, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Error

"Once up the lattice, continue straight and open the Upper Garden Door" The door this is describing is to the left (west) NOT straight ahead.