Justice/Vengeance
Sorry, but I'm genuinely curious here. How in any way was that a stretch? It's a word-for-word quote. And I don't think there's any denying the accuracy of the statement... RomeoReject (talk) 17:23, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
- It's a stretch: vengeance is commonly seen as a form of a justice. It is not foreshadowing. ···
d·day! 17:26, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
- She specifically goes out of her way to point out that her decision to seek Vengeance was one of corruption. And if Vengeance is a form of Justice, Anders wouldn't be struggling as badly to control himself as he is. RomeoReject (talk) 17:32, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
- In some instances, yes, Vengeance can be Justice. However they are not the same thing (As proof of this, I have a thesauras open, and neither 'vengeance' nor 'revenge' are listed as synonyms). Case in point, killing a murderer may be seen as both Vengeance and Justice. Killing someone who stole from you, or killing the daughter of someone who tried to kill you, these are acts of Vengeance, not Justice. They are not the same thing, which is why BioWare made an effort to point out that Justice is no longer Justice, he is Vengeace. Were they the same thing, no name change would be necessary.
- Furthermore, I think you're thinking about this backwards. When I say it foreshadows Dragon Age II, I don't think they designed this scene thinking "yes, we will create a character named Anders who will go on to combine with a spirit named Justice, who will then become corrupted and become Vengeance." I think they did draw inspiration for Anders' character retroactively from this scene though. We're talking about one of the most important characters in one of the most important moments in Thedas' history, and a character who not only follows it word for word, but also in terms of plot (Becomes corrupted and eventually becomes looking for petty revenge) and also follows it chronologically (First just, then corrupt).
- I find it odd that something for something like Gaxkang the Unbound to have Kangaxx listed as a totally acceptable link, because they look somewhat similar, and yet a word-for-word reference is considered a stretch. RomeoReject (talk) 18:03, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
- I said vengeance is seen as a form of justice by some people; I never said they were synonymous (and I don't believe they are—they obviously aren't). In the case of Lady Vasilia, she says, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. The debt of blood must be paid in full. Of what do I speak?" (the answer being "Vengeance") and "I am justice. I am vengeance. Blood can only be repaid in blood." We're talking about retributive justice here, which includes death penalty (which may be viewed as vengeance). Those concepts can't be laid down by a dictionary or a thesaurus, since this is morality issue.
- "Her line for a correct response "I am Justice, I am Vengeance" foreshadows Anders' fall in Dragon Age II. His possessed spirit, Justice, eventually becomes twisted and corrupted - becoming Vengeance."
- She is referring to the concept of justice and vengeance. Did the writers over BioWare took inspiration from this quote? Not really, as I've explained above. I am not saying that it is foreshadowing the character, but rather you are incorrectly assessing that her quote is foreshadowing Anders becoming Justice and then Vengeance.
- Regarding Gaxkang, it's supposedly an Easter egg is different—if it's a valid Easter egg. I never played Baldur's Gate II. Regardless, I think it's a completely different situation and should not affect whether this particular quoe about justice and vengeance is related. ··· d·day! 18:34, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
- Regarding Gaxkang, it's supposedly an Easter egg is different—if it's a valid Easter egg. I never played Baldur's Gate II. Regardless, I think it's a completely different situation and should not affect whether this particular quoe about justice and vengeance is related. ···
- I would have to concur with D-Day that this is indeed a stretch of the imagination. Similar terminology does not mean there is a direct link or any kind of inspiration between events. Further to that, I would add that unless there is direct evidence, in the form of confirmation from a member of the writing team, that inspiration was drawn from this particular line of dialogue, it cannot be considered valid trivia and does not belong on the page.
18:43, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
Tekka Ijuin | Talk
- I would have to concur with D-Day that this is indeed a stretch of the imagination. Similar terminology does not mean there is a direct link or any kind of inspiration between events. Further to that, I would add that unless there is direct evidence, in the form of confirmation from a member of the writing team, that inspiration was drawn from this particular line of dialogue, it cannot be considered valid trivia and does not belong on the page.