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Merge with Archdemon

I suggest this page be merged with Archdemon and Urthemiel is set up as a redirect to that page. We currently have two articles for one and the same creature. --Zoev 19:08, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I set up the page as being different because Urthemiel was specifically the Old God of Beauty, whereas there have been several Archdemons. Other of the Old Gods were given a page, so I figured the current one could have one to. Also, as the game progresses into the Awakening, we might well see a new Archdemon, who knows? Also, as time goes on with the game, more information could be found out about the Old Gods, since we are going to be finding more about the Darkspawn and their motivations soon. I get where you are coming from though. Guess we will leave it up to the admin :) Quietscribe 19:14, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining, Quietscribe. I'm in complete agreement with you that we do need a specific page for the individual creature that is Urthemiel, I guess my issue is that the Archdemon article as it is now strikes me as unable to make up its mind about whether it's about Archdemons in general or the specific fifth Blight archdemon (aka Urthemiel). It has some general info, but then sections about the battle of Denerim and, until it was recently moved to a separate page, an examination of strategies for the final fight with the archdemon in Origins. I was thinking of having a go at tidying it, but don't really know which way to go. As I see it, we have two options: (i) make Archdemon a general page and put all specific information about the archdemon of the 5th Blight on this page and redirect all links that mean to reference that specific archdemon here, or (ii) tidy up Archdemon so that it is unambiguously a page about the current Archdemon, merge this page with that and set up a redirect of Urthemiel to Archdemon, and have a different general Archdemons page (probably a redirect to a tidied Old Gods article) and fix all links that should point to general Archdemon info to that page. I don't really have a preference, though having looked at what links to the Archdemon page, it seems that it's mostly lore articles, so option 2 might mean less tidying. What does anyone else think? --Zoev 16:34, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Then this page should also include his time as the ArchDemon

if a dragon is female...why does it sat it is male?--Sangheili wunna be (talk) 03:48, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

High Dragons are female. But an Archdemon isn't a High Dragon. It's a tainted Old God, and the Old Gods were male. And thus, Archdemons ar male as well.--User:Biomanzilla (talk)

Urthemiel Plateau

The map of Thedas shows a location called "Urthemiel Plateau" to the west of Orlais. Has there been any other info release about the place? --Koveras Alvane (talk) 14:03, September 25, 2011 (UTC)


"It is revealed that Urthemiel was found not by the main darkspawn horde, but by the mysterious, sentient darkspawn known as the Architect. After a failed attempt to induce Grey Warden blood to Urthemiel, which the Architect believed would disrupt the Old Gods' hold over the darkspawn, Urthemiel became tainted, beginning the Fifth Blight." Where are the sources to this? Information like this would surely make the decision as whether to kill the Architect or not (Awakening) easier for a lot of people..—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

The Mother says so and The Architect admits it. The source is the final conversation with Mother. Henio0 (talk) 22:45, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


Which gender should we use when writing the article? In the DAO codex he/she is described as male, in the RPG guide - as female. The constellation he/she is associated with is called "the Maiden". Urthemiel is referred to as a "god", not a goddess, in the Chant of Light in WoT2. I am at a loss. Asherinka (talk) 22:56, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

Most instances seem to refer to Urthemiel using the masculine pro-noun, so I think we can keep the masculine pro-nouns as is. Far as I know, Razikale is the only female member of the Old God Pantheon. As much as dragons can be said to have any sort of sex or gender i guess.

-Seekers of Truth heraldryHD3 (Talk) 00:22, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

Confirmed the in game term is correct according to patrick weekes

-Seekers of Truth heraldryHD3 (Talk) 04:00, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Can you provide a link to add it to the wiki? Asherinka (talk) 04:03, October 3, 2015 (UTC)
Tweet is private, I'll upload an image

-Seekers of Truth heraldryHD3 (Talk) 04:09, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Urthemiel Tweet

-Seekers of Truth heraldryHD3 (Talk) 04:11, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Your message wasn't clear enough HD3. In DAI Urthemiel is referred to as "the Maiden" and associated with famous female Thedosians but a male pronoun is used for the Old God in the DAO codex entry. So there is a difference between games too so Patrick's answer isn't adequate enough to settle the matter. Viktoria Landers 09:16, December 25, 2017 (UTC)
Urthemiel is associated with the Maiden sure, but as a facet of Urthemiel's role as a god of beauty not because of Urthemiel's own gender. Ibid with the famous female thedosians. I'm still inclined to go with the one which explicitly identifies the gender pronoun, especially in line with what weekes said.

-Seekers of Truth heraldryHD3 (Talk) 10:45, December 25, 2017 (UTC)

I have no particular opinion on this matter since the sources are conflicting each other (hence why I didn't revert Tsukikagetsuba's edit) I just want to point out that is not what Weekes said.
You asked him with the pretension that the game sources unanimously claimed that Urthemiel is male, which is wrong.
A female-ish figure (bearing characteristics that only females can have) and is associated with female Thedosians cannot be attributed to a male deity. If anything there are 2 sources which name Urthemiel as female (The Maiden & DA RPG) and one which identifies him as a male (codex entry). Again, I am not taking sides, just stating what we know. Viktoria Landers 15:55, December 25, 2017 (UTC)

No but I still asked him point blank whether it was masculine or feminine. Either way, I still think the maiden source is pretty inconclusive. Especially since it makes clear that the term 'maiden' and the female personages it lists did not make that association until well after worship of Urthemiel was ancient history. And even if we did include the maiden as a source for female, it would still be 2 v 2 since WoT lists urthemiel as male also.
Based on the available evidence, I think we should leave it as male unless new information is forthcoming which contradicts that.

-Seekers of Truth heraldryHD3 (Talk) 16:23, December 26, 2017 (UTC)

The only female Old God for now was Razikale (confirmed in Jaws of Haakon DLC). The rest are males until Bioware says any different. --Virrac (talk) 14:13, December 25, 2017 (UTC)
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