|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Peasant Revolution article.|
Unnamed topic #1 Edit
Ugh, even with max coercion I couldn't keep them from going hostile, did I fail a check or is it just going to happen whenever I choose not to protect the farms first? --Syrant 08:46, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
Nope. I guess you have to give them the grain instead of promising to do it. And I gave guards to the farms and failed the persuade, too. 220.127.116.11 19:55, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm guessing you might need a ridiculously high cunning score to go with the max rank in Coercion for the persuasion check. Dch2404 12:41, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I tried this last night: with max coercion and 20 Cunning, I successfully made both the Persuasion checks ("Now more than ever we should stand together", or something to that effect, and "I will provide for my people"). When I selected the second Persuade option, the riot leader protested but a woman said: "The Commander's soldiers are protecting my farm. His word is good enough for me". AndreaDraco83 11:48, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
I had the soldiers defending the farms, had max coercion, and 21 cunning yet I still failed the second persuade check. Anyone know why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Josh33333110 (talk • contribs) 16:18, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
Colour me confused. Soldiers at the farms, max coercion, and 64 cunning (my PC is a rogue, and has +cunning bonuses) and I failed the second persuade too. One possibility -- I had reduced the soldiers in order to guard the builders... Uecasm 02:59, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
I was thinking it might be that too. I'll have to check if you need all of you soldiers defending the farms in order to pass the second check. Josh33333110 00:05, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Second Persuasion check Edit
I can confirm that its possible to persuade the people to leave even when you assigned the army to defend the city. So I guess the page text should be changed. (Btw. I had cunning 25 and Max. Coercion) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 22:29, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Actually it shouldn't be changed until we know what exactly the situation is. There are people with 20 Cunning and one or two ranks in Coercion who choose to defend the trade rather than the farms or both and can get this. The peasants even say that the soldiers are defending the farms, even when you told them not to do so. Then there are those who are defending the farms, have 50+ Cunning and 4 ranks in Coercion who continuously fail this quest. But then every so often it works for those people. It seems that there's either some invisible trigger that makes it so that the people accept your word or the quest is ridiculously bugged. It would stand to reason that the Oaths of Fealty quest and A Day in Court have some bearing on this quest but I have no idea where to even begin comparing or checking that out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misfit119 (talk • contribs) 03:16, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
With lvl 4 Coercion and 23 Cunning, succeeded at second persuasion check. (I also sent soldiers to "defend everything" for Woolsey and helped out Voldrik and Wade) --Crush. 02:42, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
- Addendum: I had to go backward and replay a ways. On my first runthru (above), I finished Wending Wood first, then succeeded at the Persuade check after completing Kal'Hirol. On my second time, I did Kal'Hirol first, then Wending Wood, and I FAILED the second persuade check with the same stats (lvl 4 Coercion, 23 Cunning). I am relatively sure that the only differences this game are that I have not yet sent soldiers to the granite deposit, and have not yet initiated "Law and Order." I can't imagine how either of those would affect this, though. My only real guesses for this are that either the Persuade check is random here somehow, or that it's bugged and checking something besides Coercion. --Crush. 20:34, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
For further feedback, it seems to me that one of the following is the case for the 2nd persuade: a.) success/failure is at least partially determined by a previous plot flag. b.) it's bugged c.) Some combination of these factors makes the check not realistically atainable. I have a trainer, which I used to pump my cunning to over 100, and with level 4 Coercion, I still failed the second persuade attempt multiple times. This is the only persuade check I've failed in Origins or Awakening with even normal stats +4 coercion. I can select "give them grain" to disperse, but not the persuade option. Intimidate seems to be successful even w/ normal stats + 4 coercion. My bets are plot results from the trial or nobles plot have some affect, but I couldn't begin to guess which ones or for what purpose. I don't think it's related to allowing the peasant fellow to join the army, as I did this in both playthroughs and was able to succeed the first time, but not the second. Other plot events that WERE different between playthroughs included doing Wending Wood-Kal'Hirol-Blackmarsh second instead of Wood-Blackmarsh-Kal'Hirol, not dealing w/ the Black Wolf and waiting for the trap (this may be it actually now that I think about it, since without dealing with the rebelious nobles it seems they were behind the revolt in my 2nd playthrough), and ironically defending the farms instead of trade. But then, like I said, it could be that it is in some way bugged due to these or some other plot flag affecting the outcome more than it should, if not causing outright failure. Without seeing the script directly, it's nigh impossible to tell for sure. Maybe we'll get lucky and they will update the toolset for Awakening to let us look at the scripts first hand. Or maybe someone will make a .ncs de-compiler and we can look at them that way. Just have to wait at this point seems to me. --Seroster 22.214.171.124 00:32, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
- Update: Dealing with the nobles via Dark Wolf seems not to have any affect, so I don't think the nobles plot is related to pass/fail at this point. Will try switching from defend farms to defend trade on my next run (like I did in my first playthrough which succeeded), and see how that affects things. Seroster 23:18, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Just thought I'd add another "lack of success" note: master coercion, cunning at 50, farms protected but the second persuade option still fails. Possibly significant decisions and quests are conscripting Alec, not contracting the Dark Wolf, finishing the Wending Wood quest, not finishing Kal'thingy and having just returned from the Blackwood; team members are Velanna, Justice and Nathaniel. I suspect it's probably a bug given the outrageous number of other quest problems in the game, but if this helps anybody see a pattern emerging... For the record, the intimidate option also seems to do nothing useful. --vom 17:17, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
- Edited to add: just found that the intimidate/"your families will die, your farms will burn down, your friends will contract scrofula and your cable TV will be cut off" combination did actually persuade them to bugger off quietly. Not my preferred option, and neither is trying them at random to see what works, but there it is. --vom 17:27, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
- In a somewhat strange twist, it almost seems to me that protecting the farms backfires. On my most recent playthrough, I had essentially every plot point that I can remember the same as my initial playthrough (which succeeded at both of the persuade checks), except protecting the farms instead of the trade, and failed both times. The only thing I can think that would be be related to a success/fail after that that I can think of is if you protect the farms, you need to not send guards elsewhere for the upgrades & such, but that seems severely unlikely at best. As I mentioned before however, I'm almost positive that my first playthrough they rioted for "protection", and IIRC, had an old man (I think he was poor, rulal looking,man who was bald, & had a white gotee-ish beard) leading them. (This may be wrong however, as this was several weeks ago & I don't have a convenient save to re-play this portion.) On both the playthroughs I've done where I selected to protect the farms, they rioted for "food" and had a younger, more prosperous looking man w/ orange/brown hair & full beard as the leader, and both of those have failed. So the event & characters spawned may themselves be different depending on the chosen plot choices. I don't really want to re-play a whole 2 main quests to test it further atm, maybe in a week or 2 I'll look at it some more.126.96.36.199 18:06, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
- Ah, I hadn't realised there were different ringleaders. The one I've had consistently is the second one you mention, seemingly middle aged/middle class, brown hair with I think a "village idiot" beard, the type without the moustache; he seemed pretty surly and this time only left after the others realised they'd be killed if they pushed their luck. I haven't seen the older poor guy, but I've always elected to protect the farms. --vom 20:17, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
It seems the order you finish the quests in may have something to do with it. I succeeded at the second persuasion attempt on several playthroughs, except when coming from Wending Wood.
(PS3) I did Wending Wood, them Blackmarsh. Rogue with Master Coercion, cunning 44+5. Two persuasion attempts were enough. On both, there was an older woman who talked down the lout. Tungstic (talk) 00:27, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
(PC) I did Wending Wood, then Kal Hirol. Imported Mage from DA:O with Lvl 4 Coercion, Cunning 16+5. Got both persuasion attempts. Similar to the previous guy, an old lady talked them down. Did the Dark Wolf part, protected trade routes v1.04 with all DLC. Also i didnt seem to have any of the bugs (other than the fade abuse) reported so far! - Slayr —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 08:31, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
Unable To Complete Quest Edit
When I completed a story mission I went to Vigil's Keep to do this quest, I did not have the option from the Seneschal to defend land. Has this been true for others? 184.108.40.206 14:32, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
Sure you're not getting it confused with Defending the Land? IIRC that one came up during the assembly of the nobles, which was almost immediately after I reached the keep. Uecasm 22:43, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, sorry. After completing a story mission, I could not do Defending the Land, therefore not letting me avoid this event. Also, I could do Defending the Land after the [Oaths of Fealty] quest. 220.127.116.11 04:32, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
Ah. IIRC it takes two story missions complete before this quest triggers. I guess since Oaths of Fealty is dialogue triggered, you can skip it, which means you'd miss out on Defending the Land. Uecasm 22:33, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
I did trigger [Oaths of Fealty] and talked with Lord Eddelbrek (to trigger Defending the Land) and did not talk to [Varel] until I completed the Wending Woods story quest. When I remembered about talking to him, I did not have the option to ask about the placing of men in Amaranthine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 04:32, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
Has anyone checked Alec's bearing on this quest? (he is the peasant who stole grain from the crown that the Warden passes judgment on during A Day In Court) I just realized that in my 3 playthrus thus far, I let him join the army in 2 and failed this persuasion check in both, and in the 3rd I had him flogged and succeeded in persuading. It does make a sort of sense: if the peasants feel you're too soft, they'll be more likely to revolt. --Crush. 20:42, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
Interesting point; I had freed Alec in my game and failed the second Persuade too... Uecasm 22:39, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm jumping in between Uecasm 22:39, April 16, 2010 (UTC) and Seroster 01:11, April 19, 2010 (UTC) here to say I forced Alec to join the Army after he was caught stealing grain. During The Peasant Revolution I successfully passed both Persuation checks with around 20 Cunning. My Epilogue, though, had this to say: "The arling's peasants suffered greatly during the war, and suffered yet worse in the years that followed. Success at the first riot at Vilgil's Keep emboldened them, and thus other uprisings followed, often put down with brutality". It seems like this should be the epilogue statement for me giving in to them (giving them grain). Of course, my Epilogue also said The Darkspawn Messanger lived (lisping figure helping travelers), but I had him killed before I left Amaranthine.--22.214.171.124 (talk) 17:47, April 11, 2011 (UTC)
As per my previous message, I don't think Alec has any bearing on the result of the 2nd persuade attempt. I've done 2 playthroughs now, both conscripting Alec, and on my first one I succeeded w/ normal cunning + 4 Coercion, second one I failed at normal cunning, and then after re-loading my last save, I still failed even after I cheated to pump my Cunning up over 100 w/ 4 Coercion. I'm thinking it may be dependant on how you decide to deal with the nobles plot, as waiting for the trap causes the plot to advance in a manner where the nobles are suspected of being behind the peasant uprising. As another note, if I remember right, in my first playthrough the revolt was actually about safety and not food, then the second time they rioted over food as is mentioned. I may just be mis-remembering however. If not related to that, it could be related to whether you get & how you deal with the murder of Ser Tamra, or over the land dispute with the bridge. Those are the only differences that I can think of that were different between my playthroughs that I would really see affecting this event in the story. I would doubt it's dependant on the order you do the major quests, since someone else on this talk page did what I did on my 2nd playthrough and had success. I would also doubt it has to do with where you initially send your soldiers to defend, as the first time I told them to defend trade & succeeded, second time I told them to defend farms & failed, and you'd think it would be the opposite. Now, someone has brought up that not sending guards to gather the Granite, which logically could be connected. But again, I did it the same in both playthroughs, sending soldiers to gather the granite well before this event happened, and only failed the second time. So I'm thinking until we can see the script or get someone from Bioware to tell us, we may just have to sit on our hands, or test every infintesmal plot point repeatedly to see how things shake out. =/ I'm about to try re-playing from the Oath swearing ceremony and dealing with the nobles via the Dark Wolf, to see if that affects this or not. That may give us an idea-- Seroster 01:11, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
User Notes Edit
Note : I chose the option to defend the trade routes in the beginning, not the farms. When the peasants revolted, I chose the "persuasion thread" twice and the peasants disbanded peacefully. Therefore, I believe that "using the persuasion option twice and the peasants attacking" comes from the fact that the Commander does not have a high enough coercion skill to succeed (my character had coercion 4 and a total cunning of 34). (XBox360)
- There is some debate over whether this is due to a glitch or not. Dialogue within the quest itself indicates that your soldiers are defending the farms, meaning that this outcome should not be possible. It is likely a highly bugged quest.
- It seems either the plot events from earlier quests affect the outcome of the second persuade option, or the quest is bugged in some way (or perhaps a combination of the two), as even with over 100 cunning and Coercion 4, this user failed the second Persuade check every time after multiple attempts from saving and reloading. Intimidate or giving grain instead of the second persuade still both lead to succsessful non-violent outcomes, however.
Note: I chose to defend the farms. I have coersion 4 and total cunning of 20. When I used the persuade skill twice the peasants attacked. Estimate that the persuade 2x option for peaceful dispersion only comes with coercion 4 + cunning over 30 if you defend the farms, potentially higher coercion values needed if you choose not to defend the farms. (XBox 360)
- With the same choice for defending the farms, as previously mentioned, this user failed with over 100 cunning + Coercion 4. However, on another playthrough I defended the trade routes, and succeeded at both persuades with cunning in the 20-30 range. So either there is a bug, or defending the farms is a relative non-factor and something else affects the outcome.
Note: Over three playthroughs, this user has made the same choices (with one notable exception): In all cases, I chose to try to defend everything: farms, trade routes, city, and the Vigil. My three PCs (all warriors) had only 16 cunning, but all had coercion 4. The only difference between the three characters was that one elected to have the conspirators make their move, and two paid the Dark Wolf for information and nipped the conspiracy in the bud before the riot. All other choices during that quest were the same over all 3 playthroughs: during the quest A Day in Court, they all conscripted Alec, imprisoned Danella (or Ser Temmerly, in the exception), and sided with Lady Liza Packton. The two Wardens that exposed the conspiracy before the riots were able to successfully persuade the rioters to disperse using both Persuade checks. The one Warden that waited for the conspirators to make their move was not able to persuade the rioters to disperse no matter what combination of responses were used.
- Placing these notes here until we can work out exactly what's going on. Loleil Talk 00:45, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
I was unable to disperse the rioters on my one playthrough so far. My choices were this:
- Opted to defend farmland
- Conscripted the food thief
- Sided with Liza (who is f&#$-ugly, I must say) but persuaded Ser Derren he would get reimbursement
- Detained Ser Temmerly The Ox while I had a very thorough investigation launched
- Offed the conspirators at the farm after Court as retaliation against the conspirators for Ser Tamara's murder
Succeeded on first persuade, second persuade didn't work. The front guy who was "leading" the revolt was the younger middle-class fellow mentioned above. I have an inkling that the dialog bug is in this instance where you have this guy instead of the decrepit old guy. Has anyone else had it work with the formerly mentioned revolt leader? --MadCat221 (talk) 22:19, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Problem with Persuade choices! Edit
I'm playing the game right now and after several tries i can't convince the peasants to step down even do i hav lots of cunning max coersion and choose to defend the farms during "Defending The Lands"
Oddly enough I had high cunning too (but with equipment, my base cunning is just 20, being a mage). Funny thing is I remembered using persuasion last time I played, however this time I could only disperse the riot with the intimidate option ("I kill darkspawn by the score. What are a few peasants?") and then the first dialogue ("You will all die. And your families will suffer."). There was no mention of the peasant revolution in the epilogue - I guess it was put down for good. :] Parochy (talk) 13:27, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
A Flow Chart Edit
I drew a flow chart for the dialog, hope it will help. It is based on vgk100_riot_scene.dlg of DAA PC 1.04, I hope some editor could update the page based on the information extracted from game resource file.
Major Article Overhaul Edit
With the invaluable help of Mahjong's Dialog Flow Chart and my 40+ walkthroughs, I managed to find all the conditions which influence this quest. Furthermore, d-day provided me with her custom-made dialogue template makes the visual presentation of the quest page much better and it attracts the readers to explore the several aspects of this quest.
I'm currently in the process of contacting wiki editors with access in the toolset in case I've missed something, however the current version is certainly depicting the inaccuracies and mistakes that the previous ones had. 04:37, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
Wasn't able to talk down the peasants Edit
I have expert coercion, didn't execute Danella or Alec, and dealth with the conspiracy using Dark Wolf at the Old Stark's Farm and yet they still attacked. What did I do wrong? --Spectro87 (talk) 08:17, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
- Can you follow the instructions from the beginning and tell me each choice you made on the respective tables that showed up in your walkthrough?
- For example that is one walkthrough which ended in violence: (1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 21 -> 25 -> 27 -> 32 -> 33) 15:34, March 11, 2015 (UTC)
Wasn't able to talk down the peasants either (because I didn't punish Danella) Edit
Choosing the third option for Danella in A Day in Court (no punishment) affects the second persuade check if the rioters are rioting for food. If I let Danella go, I can't succeed even despite max Coercion and 32 Cunning with my human noble warden having assigned soldiers to guard everything in Defending the Land. It seems to me the likely increased desertions the Seneschal, the Captain and the Journal all warned you about have the effect of cancelling the soldiers protecting the farms, which is why the moderate rioter will not intervene by saying the commander's troops are at least protecting her house. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 19:38, August 23, 2016 (UTC)NewbieOneKenobi
Edit: After looking at Mahjong's flowchart, I think soldiers guarding stuff don't have much to do with the second persuade check if anything at all, if I'm reading things correctly. The header says 'good ruler', so I guess letting Danella off too easily makes you lose the 'good ruler' flag. Whether sending soldiers to places (Defending the Land choice of what to protect or What is Built Endures choice to send soldiers to protect the granite quarry) affects it or not I can't tell.
Edit2: I've reloaded to a previous save to check, and sending soldiers for the granite makes no difference. So the game doesn't seem to be keeping track of soldier numbers, except perhaps if you send all of them to guard the farms in Defending the Land, which I haven't checked. To be sure, I've also checked a different decision about the contested land (persuading Derren to give it up as opposed to awarding it to him), but it doesn't make a difference, either. Folks have also reported that Alec's facte on its own doesn't affect the check. So I guess letting Danella off too easily is a negative factor of unique importance to the Good Ruler flag from Mahjong's chart. In my game everything hinges on it. Alternatively, it still could be a bug. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:41, August 23, 2016 (UTC)NewbieOneKenobi