Talk: The Landsmeet

Can't get option four...

"Loghain lives, Anora and Alistair marry - To achieve this outcome, refuse to kill Loghain at every opportunity, then suggest that Alistair and Anora marry. You may have to have set this up in Arl Eamon's estate, prior to the Landsmeet, but perhaps not if Alistair has been hardened."

I've hardened Alistair, any choices I go through, it ends up with me either choosing Anora or Alistair.Jackimole 04:15, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

I had Alistair unhardened marry Anora. I killed Loghain though.

Southern Reaches

The representative of the Southern Reaches will always side with the Wardens. (needs confirmation)

They don't always side with the Wardens. Their support depends on your words during the landsmeet - if you mention something along the lines of "The Blight is coming, see what it did to the South", they will throw their support behind you. --Tierrie 19:20, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Ooops maybe that was the Western Hills. --Tierrie 19:21, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Break up or Queen

I have played as female human noble twice (once the two did it, once they loved each other but did not do it) and both times he dumped her. Being human noble does not guarantee you can become queen. --Revan's Exile 05:11, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

I've never had problems becoming queen if Alistair and I were romantically involved. What was your approval rating with him like? I can imagine that if you're not romantically involved and are instead involved with someone else, I can imagine that being queen would be difficult as you have to marry and have children with Alistair. --MiyuEmi 10:52, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

For me, the turning point was when the Warden declares her favourite between Alistair and Anora at Landsmeet. With a female human noble at 100 approval, saying 'Alistair' leads to the 'sorry, I need an heir' breakup, but the '(Persuade) Alistair, and I will rule by his side!' gets you engaged. --118.208.206.196 04:55, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a glitch, because any children born from a Grey Warden parent is tainted, though Dragon Age writers seem to overlook that fact when it's conveniet.

Staying with Alistair?

Expanded it a bit, working from memory, etc. etc. Fix it if it's inaccurate. On a side note, does anybody know what options you need to choose in order to stay as Alistair's lover despite him becoming King and not being of the human noble origin? I keep reading rumors about this, but I don't know if any of them are true. Do Anora and Alistair need to be married? Alistair was toughened up, I managed the persuasion check ("Being King isn't all bad" or whatever), but... in the end, all it said was that my character got Loghain's old titles and stayed on as a noble in Denerim, blablabla. - Ancestralmask 15:25, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

No Anora and Alistair do not need to marry. He can send her to the dungeons if he wants to.--MiyuEmi 09:42, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Anora

I have always, without fail had her turn on me at the Landsmeet. Is it accurate that if you tell her you'll support her she'll support you. I always have her walking out after the decision and back stabbing you. I thought this was the way it was meant to go because she really sees Alistair as a threat to the throne. If I can do a little backstabbing of my own I'd love to see her support me and then I turn around and say I want Alistair to be king...muwhahhahahahah! --MiyuEmi 09:42, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

That's what I did, in any case: told her I'd support her, and then had Loghain killed so I didn't even have to worry about choosing Anora? At least, I don't actively remember saying "Alistair should be King, screw Anora!" - Ancestralmask 10:20, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

-bug- if you decide to sneak inside to save princess then you must not use area effect spell from long range on your first encounter or this triggers a bug where you cannot change the guard set items from then on

Prince Consort

I agreed to support Anora if she married me (I'm a male human noble), she agreed and then betrayed me at the Landsmeet. In our conversation I started talking about Loghain, and when she asked me about his fate I told her there's no chance he can avoid execution. Now obviously the question is why did she betray me? Was it because I told her Loghain will be executed?

In other words, does she betray you at the Landsmeet if you say her father can't be allowed to live? 93.142.179.222 03:48, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Phew, I finally managed to both keep Alistair and marry Anora, becoming Prince/King Consort and leaving my buddy alive. Previously arranged the deal with Anora, she betrayed me, I fought it out, and then had Alistair kill Loghain in the end. When the question came I simply said I would marry the shrew. The question still remains, does she betray you if you say Loghain should die when you talk to her back in Arl Eamon's Estate? 93.142.179.222 03:48, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you are absolutely right. She will always betray you if you tell her that her father must die. Whether or not she has agreed to accept a male human noble as her husband has no bearing on whether or not she'll betray you. 68.82.52.241 11:39, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

The Alienage way to get a blood mage

If the player follows the make another offer chain of dialog you can get the Tevinter mage will teach you blood magic. The cost is he uses the slaves to do it and you will get a -40 Wynne if she is in your party. Just FYI if anyone is inclined to add this to the article 67.10.121.74 21:59, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Mary Kirby explains the Landsmeet

Mary Kirby posted a simplified explanation of how the Landsmeet works on the forums here. Anyone with a better grasp on the Wikia system than me want to integrate this into the article? --76.126.250.18 11:52, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

That's a pretty interesting read. So I'm guessing you start at 0 points and then your totals go up or down depending on which arguments you take and which nobles you can get to back you. For example, if you do nothing but rail on the fact that Loghain left the field at Ostagar, you'll lose around 4 or 5 points (I don't remember how many times you get to talk about it), which will be more than enough to offset any points you may gain from Anora, the Grand Cleric, plus nobles.Raphaeldisanto 18:24, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Alistair as king(hardened)

Note that Alistair must be hardened for this to happen.

If the Warden allows Alistair to kill Loghain, then Eamon will encourage him to step up as king. Alistair will accept and take the throne without the Warden having a say in the matter.

If the Warden is the one who kills Loghain, Eamon will ask the PC to decide.

Need someone to double check so we can get this up. --BeerMage 22:26, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Losing Landsmeet with Anora?

Is it possible to lose Landsmeet if Anora supports you? I've tried not talking to nobles, not presenting any evidence on Landsmeet and using statements I can't support and I still win 4-2 (the 2 being guy who always vote for Loghain and Wulffe) 62.141.225.115 13:04, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Did anybody else think that the whole "duel" in the Landsmeet felt remarkably crass?
I mean it seems that the only requirements to pull a successful coup is to reach the throne room and declare a duel... clearly its tacked on for people who cannot win the Landsmeet im just wondering if they have any excuses... CC

It's a civil war; that's the excuse. There's no clear heir to throne, and the Landsmeet was called to decide what to do about it. The chain of evemts leading up to the duel couldn't happen if Cailan and Anora had a child. Alfaerin 18:13, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

The whole game is a poorly written remake of Neverwinter nights 2. The landsmeet is exactly the same as the trial in NWN2, and it was already bad 5 years ago. Winning or losing the landsmeet doesn't make any difference. In fact, no player choice makes any real difference in the game.

Is it possible to have Anora killed?

I remember having a dialogue option saying something like "She needs to be dealt with." I didn't choose it, though. Can you do it, maybe if you harden Alistair enough? TheUnknown285 00:15, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

No, if you take that option, Alistair still puts her in the tower. I wanted to kill her too, miserable wench. Raphaeldisanto 02:29, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Point of No Return

Thought it might be a good idea to mention in the article that completing the Landsmeet can prevent the completion of some quests.

During a playthrough in which I was going for the Loghain ending, I rushed to the Landsmeet in the interest of minimizing the damage he does to himself while levelling up without me, then planned to go about earning all remaining experience as a means of 'correcting' him.

But any side quest that has to do with someone or something in Redcliffe can't be completed, since the town is permanently changed. Specifically, there is a Dead Drop there (third task from "K" in the Interested Parties line), two Mage's Collective quests deal with the Knight Commander (and I think one requires that you do all Mage's Collective quests if you want to finish on their side), a few Blackstone quests require you to speak with a few townsfolk, and the Rigby questline from the Korcari Wilds can finish in Redcliffe. Sten's sword is also there. Redcliffe itself has a few things to do, including "A Missing Child" and the dramas at the bar, which can be ignored prior to the undead attack, but might be unavailable afterwards.

The Chantry Board quest which reveals one of Loghain's troop movements allows you to ambush the unit. The site can't be visited after the Landsmeet and the quest is dumped.

It also appears that Slim Couldry will no longer be available after the Landsmeet, if you haven't completed his pre-Landsmeet quests first.

Clarification of Possible Outcomes

I wanted to add something to the section at the end, perhaps cleaning it up, explaining how the process works for the PC/Alistair/Loghain/Anora tangle. Obviously, being bioware, there's a lot of if this, then thats that are dependant upon other things you've done, and choices you make, and the current layout is a little misleading for people who want a specific outcome for their characters - Also listing what cannot happen.

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of (with the current information worked in to this format (which I haven't done here)

The decision over whether or not Loghain lives or dies, and the decision over who gets the throne are not always separate.

If The Warden does not choose to kill Loghain at the first opportunity presented in dialogue after Riordan has interrupted, Anora and Alistair will argue, and you will be forced to make both decisions with only one dialogue line. At this time, you can choose to support Anora for the throne and keep Loghain alive, or you can choose to support Alistair's claim and kill Loghain. You cannot at this point keep Loghain alive and put Alistair on the throne, unless you suggest that Alistair and Anora marry.

Possible Outcomes for a Warden of Either Gender

Loghain lives, Anora rules alone, Alistair is executed - To achieve this outcome, refuse to kill Loghain at every opportunity, support Anora's claim to the throne, and then fail (or simply refuse) to persude Anora to allow Alistair to live.
Loghain lives, Anora rules alone, Alistair is banished - To achieve this outcome, refuse to kill Loghain at every opportunity, support Anora's claim to the throne, but persuade her that she should show leniency to Alistair.
Loghain lives, Anora is Imprisoned, Alistair rules alone - This outcome is not possible
Loghain lives, Anora and Alistair marry - To achieve this outcome, refuse to kill Loghain at every opportunity, then suggest that Alistair and Anora marry. You may have to have set this up in Arl Eamon's estate, prior to the Landsmeet, but perhaps not if Alistair has been hardened.
Loghain dies, Anora rules alone, Alistair is executed - To achieve this outcome, kill Loghain at the first opportunity presented after Riordan's interruption, support Anora in the subsequent dialogue, and then fail (or simply refuse) to persuade Anora to allow Alistair to live
Loghain dies, Anora rules alone, Alistair is banished - To achieve this outcome, kill Loghain at the first opportunity presented after Riordan's interruption, support Anora in the subsequent dialogue, and then persuade Anora to allow Alistair to live
Loghain dies, Anora is Imprisoned, Alistair rules alone - To achieve this outcome, kill Loghain at the first opportunity presented after Riordan's interruption and then support Alistair's claim to the throne.
Loghain dies, Anora and Alistair marry - To achieve this outcome, kill Loghain at the first opportunity presented after Riordan's interruption, then persuade Anora and Alistair that they should marry. You may have to have set this up in Arl Eamon's estate, prior to the Landsmeet, but perhaps not if Alistair has been hardened.

Possible Outcomes for a Male Warden

Loghain lives, Warden and Anora marry, Alistair is executed
Loghain lives, Warden and Anora marry, Alistair is banished
Loghain dies, Warden and Anora marry, Alistair is executed
Loghain dies, Warden and Anora marry, Alistair is banished

Possible Outcomes for a Female Warden

Loghain lives, Anora rules alone, Alistair and Warden continue their prior romance - This outcome is not possible, as Alistair will leave your party if you allow Loghain to live. The only way to allow Loghain to live is to support Anora's claim to the throne, and that will result in Alistair's banishement or execution. You could, of course, potentially roleplay that Alistair and the Warden continue their romance offscreen, if you successfully persuade Anora to show leniency and not execute Alistair.
Loghain lives, Anora is imprisoned, Alistair and Warden rule - This outcome is not possible.
Loghain dies, Anora is imprisoned, Alistair and Warden rule - To achieve this outcome, kill Loghain at the first opportunity presented after Riordan's interruption, then support Alistair's claim to the throne with the "I will rule beside him" dialogue option. Warden must be a Female Human Noble for this to work.

Notes It is not possible to execute Anora. Even if you give him the throne, Alistair's too nice a guy and will merely imprison her, no matter what you say.

As can been seen from above, the key defining moment in the landsmeet is whether or not the Warden chooses to execute Loghain of his or her own volition. If the Warden executes Loghain without forcing the issue between Anora and Alistair, the second dialogue tree will be kicked off where you get to choose the ruler (or rulers) as a separate issue. If not, you will be forced to make the choice about the rulers and the choice about Loghain's life at the same time.

I haven't filled in any of the male Warden marrying Anora outcome prerequisites yet, because I haven't played through those. I assume that to marry Anora, you have to set it up at Arl Eamon's estate, then take those conversation options at the Landsmeet. However, I do not know if you can marry her if you've forced the issue, or if the three options presented to my female human noble ("Support Anora and let Logain live", "Support Alistair and kill Loghain" and "Alistair and Anora marry and Loghain lives") are the same three that you get as a Male Human Noble Warden.

That's next on my list to do - I have a finished game with a MHN - I'll find a save back in Arl Eamon's estate and see how it plays out.

What do people think about me modifying the 'Results' section at the bottom of the page to reflect this information?

Raphaeldisanto 03:06, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Okay. I wrote all of that up in a (heopfully) understandable format, but it started to get pretty long. I've thrown it into an orphan page here for now, but I can merge it with the Landsmeet page if that's what the consensus is. Alternatively, we can just link to it. What do people think? Raphaeldisanto 04:37, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for writing all this up, Raphaeldisanto. I'm not sure what I think the best approach is but I am thinking about it and am aiming to get back to you soon - I just wanted to let you know that your hard work and question haven't gone unnoticed! ♦ Zoev ^talk 19:43, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

So if Loghain dies , Anora rules alone and you are a noble human Alistair will either die or leave you party due to banishment. is there anyway of keeping him in your party

Hey, no trouble - Happy to help. Maker knows I've used this site enough for information in the past. I'm a bit of a obsessive perfectionist (aren't we all), so when I came here looking for information on how to get the exact ending I wanted for my characters I realized that what was written didn't completely explain the spaghetti mess that passes for dialogue consequences in the actual game, so I thought I'd try and lay it out a bit more comprehensively. I hope people find it useful. Raphaeldisanto 21:09, January 31, 2010 (UTC

Alistair is not banished if you're playing a male human noble, select anora as queen (with or without your character as her husband) and have loghain executed. He is only required to renounce all claims to the throne for himself and his heirs. He remains a Grey Warden and party member. 68.82.52.241 12:00, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Tevinter Mage's offer

It mentions in the article that if you do not take the mage's offer of killing the elves to increase your health then you will get -10 aproval from morrigan which is wrong since ive chosen not to while morrigan was in my party in 2 seperate playthoughs and neither of them gave me any disaproval so im editing it out of the article unless somebody can prove otherwise --89.242.62.228 21:26, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

All approval info has now been removed from this article - it's better located on the Unrest in the Alienage walkthrough. We only want brief summaries on this page, I think. ♦ Zoev ^talk 14:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Captured! - retrieving items

This article was edited to add the following text:

Note: If you choose to break out of jail, rather than wait to be rescued, make sure to pick up your lost items. They are in a chest at the door of the room where you are being held prisoner. If you put your disguises on first, and then retrieve your items, you will permanently lose any weapons and armor that you had equipped prior to the capture. Alternatively, if you accidently miss the chest altogether and leave the dungeon, all of the items in your inventory will be permanently lost.

This contradicts information on the Captured! quest page, which claims that items will be returned on leaving Fort Drakon if the chest is missed. Can we have some corroboration of either claim? I've always picked up items from the chest so can't say either way. If it is the case that all items can be lost from the inventory then it's probably important enough to flag here, even though this is just a summary page. Otherwise, the best place for information about items is on the Captured! quest page. ♦ Zoev ^talk 14:26, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Autosave bug

I allowed Alastair to fight, then decided I wanted to go another way. Loaded from autosave, and the mission loaded from when I walk into the Landsmeet. However, the cutscene did not start. I was able to speak with some of the assembled nobles, and complete some quests. The dialogue did not reflect the Landsmeet - it was as though the meeting never happened. I was able to trigger the Landsmeet cutscene by walking through the Metal doors (as though I was leaving). However, when I skipped the cutscene, I was left in the room with no way to trigger the vote, or the duel. I could speak to Loghain, but nothing I could do would trigger the advancement of the plot. I would recommend a manual save BEFORE you walk into the doors, after you fight/persuade.

Outcome

WARNING *SPOILER* My question should not be read by someone who has not completed beaten the game. Don’t want to ruin anything.

Is there a way to have Alistair stay in your party after you decide to induct Loghain in to the Grey Wardens? The senerio that I am trying to work out is, to have Alistair and Anora marry and rule jointly. But I don’t want either Alistair or the Grey Warden to have to die in the final battle. I would much rather save that for Loghain. Ha. So is there a way for me to work this out or no. Thanks

In short, no. You can have Alistair (if hardened) and and Anora marry while still recruiting Loghain into the party, but Alistair will always leave the group. Check out Possible Landsmeet Outcomes for more information.

Loleil ^Talk 10:17, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Purported "Bug" - Cauthrien Persuade

The article states:

The Persuade option actually checks against Poison Making, instead of the Coercion skill, but you can convince Ser Cauthrien to stand down. The Intimidate option makes the right check, but you must make another Intimidate or Persuade check after that to convince Cauthrien that Loghain is wrong.

I doubt this is (still) true, unless Cauthrien can be persuaded by a Warden with only one rank in poison-making. My PC has four ranks of persuade but only one in poison-making, and I convinced her to stand down. Can someone confirm? --Oferphuxake (talk) 20:23, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

My character with IV coercion and 1 poison could NOT persuade her, patched as of now. Intimidate worked for the first option, but went no where after that. What discussion tree options did you select? Note: I added a 'poison' option and suddenly my PC CAN persuade her. Sounds like the bug is still there.

Weird: My elf rogue with 4 coercion ranks, 35 cunning, and 2 poison-making could NOT persuade her, but my human mage with ONE coercion, 20 cunning, and ZERO poison could persuade her??? Maybe it has something to do with whether one surrenders at the Arl of Denerim's Estate? My mage surrendered, my rogue didn't... -- Marvin Arnold (talk) 17:08, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

Is there any update concerning this particular bug as of now? 82.156.214.20 (talk) 16:44, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Bug? Landsmeet Outcome / Invisible Loghain

Alistair is not hardened, I killed Loghain and I supported Anora, so she should rule alone. Alistair happily renounced any claims to the throne. There is a following cut scene with Anora where she tells me what a waste it was to kill Loghain, but she agrees it was necessary. While I stay in the castle, Alistair is still there, but when I talk to him there's no option to talk about the outcome of the Landsmeet. When I leave the castle, Alistair disappeared from my companion selection and when I get to Redcliffe I have an invisible Loghain in every cut scene and dialogue where Alistair should be. I read about some corrupted flags in save games, so I played the whole thing again starting in the Alienage without any manual saves in between and got the same result. --84.191.209.227 (talk) 15:12, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I got the same problem! Any help?

Sigh, this game is riddled with irritating bugs :/. Do you have any mods installed? I have quite a few fix packs. I did the same, but I didn't get this bug (this can also depend on the dialog choices previously in the game, e.g. what you said to Anora before going to the Alienage, try mixing it up, since you can change your mind during the Landsmeet). Maybe visit the party camp directly after the Landsmeet and see if Alistair is there, and try to talk to him? IvIetho5 (talk) 04:07, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Winning Landsmeet through the debate of Cailan and Ostagar

(only possible with Anora's support as she backs your version of Ostagar))

- When you first bring up the topic of betrayal, there is a persuade check after which Bryland of the South Reach (the guy in full plate up in the gallery) says that "There are some of us who are curious about Ostagar" - I suppose that this a response after the successful check; can anyone confirm that? Sticking with the topic brings up a nasty remark from Ceorlic which does not seem to affect anything.

- Whatever you do, Vaughan, Sighard and Alfstanna keep their word and vote for you (if you secured their vote beforehand). Sighard responds positively to the charges of torture and slavery, Alfstanna backs the poisoning and supporting Alistair's claim as Maric's heir (persuade check required for the latter). They still vote for you even if you don't bring up any of their topics. However, the slavery charge and Alistair's claim do not count as backed-up arguments, so if you mention only Ostagar and either of the two, you lose even with majority of votes.

- At the end of the Ostagar discussion you have one more chance to bring up any of the backed charges against Loghain (poisoning Eamon or Howe's crimes) or mention the Blight, which wins you Wullf and counts as a backed-up argument.

Summary: even with the majority of votes and Anora's suport, you need two backed-up arguments to win the Landsmeet

Ygrain (talk) 13:16, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

(The above discussion was moved from "Talk/The Landsmeet"). --D. (talk · contr) 15:14, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Can we backstab Anora?

After a few plays through I'm finishing up on the character I want to base my DA:II game on. I'm playing human noble female, planning to marry Alistair. I know the dialogue options which will lead me there, and I can't see why this wouldn't work, but I have a wonder: I've got very angry with the way Anora will backstab you at the Landsmeet if you give her the choice, and I want to give her a good hard pre-emptive strike. I'll save beforehand and try it out, but it'd save me some time and repetition if somebody can tell me whether it's possible to gain Anora's support at the Landsmeet by promising beforehand to support her and expressing mercy towards Loghain, and then having got her to tell the truth to the Landsmeet, to turn around and put Alistair on the throne alongside my character anyway? It's no more than what she planned to do to us... I've never had Anora's support at the Landsmeet so I don't know whether it affects the later dialogue options which would make me queen.

Basically I want to have my pre-emptive-revenge-cake and eat it too. Is it possible? Do the promises you make about who reigns before then Landsmeet limit you once you're in there?

Yeah you should be fine doing that. You can tell Anora whatever you want in advance but make your actual decision at the Landsmeet. The only thing affected by your conversation with Anora prior to the event is whether or not she supports you. I've done it that way a couple of times myself (both with and without marriage to Alistair).

Not that you actually asked this specifically but now that I'm thinking of it... I don't know if you can arrange the Anora/Alistair marriage and then opt for the rule beside whomever at the last minute. I'd assume yes but I'm not certain. Millahnna (talk) 03:21, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Landsmeet outcome possibility

In my recent playthrough I wanted Loghain to live, Alistair and Anora to marry, and my warden to remain as Alistair's mistress. Anora had no problem with it, but after allowing Loghain to live Alistair broke the relationship off and I had no dialgoue options to remain in a romance with him. We had 100% approval and he was hardened. Is there a way to do this or will Alistair end the romance with you no matter what if Loghain lives?

He will always end the relationship if Loghain lives. Millahnna (talk) 19:58, May 11, 2011 (UTC)

Can the Warden Rule Fereldan alone?

So I was wondering if the Warden can rule alone, there is only 2 options for becoming king/queen in the first place, Marry Anora as male (She cannot be killed) or your companion, Alistair, the Royal Bastard, so: What happens if you play a Female Human Noble, Romance Alistair, choose at the Landsmeet to marry him, then you refuse Morrigan's ritual and let Alistair get the Killing blow on the Archdemon? That would leave the Warden as single queen of Fereldan, right? -- FieryWrath 21:08, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

No. If Alistair dies, Anora is made queen. Bastian 9 64 21:49, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Same Problem as in the first topic

After hours of time, I finally made it to the landsmeet in my 7th playthrough of the game. I wanted it perfect this time, especially for the import to Dragon Age II. I hardened Alistair as a female Dalish Elf, but quit the romance. Then, after I rescued Anora, convinced her and Alistair to marry, and both agree. Now I hoped, as I've seen in videos and read here, that both Loghain and Alistair could stay alive. But when I wanted to let him live, and told Anora and Alistair to marry, he says something about "And I thought this haven't been went as it does". Then, I had to choose either him or her as king/queen.

I know that most people wouldn't be able to help here. So I simply ask: What did you have done to let all three (Anora, Alistair, Loghain) live?

Thanks. Vilae (talk) 16:43, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

I did what you described. I won the Landsmeet, convinced the two of them to marry, dueled Loghain personally, let him live and we went on our merry way. Alistair didn't like me and I let Loghain die with the archdemon anyway, but still, it helped him.

In preparation of a major edit

I tried to put down the exact mechanism of the Landsmeet over here Forum:The Landsmeet Mechanism. Feedback would be highly welcome. --Ygrain (talk) 21:20, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

Since no-one has objected, I'm going through with the edit.

For future editors: If you think that my deduction of the Landsmeet mechanism is incorrect, please consider posting your own version and the basis for it in the above mentioned forum or here on the Talk page, before you make any major change. Any comments or input are highly welcome. Thank you. --Ygrain (talk) 17:36, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Correction on how to win without Anora

Actually, the first choice should be "The Blight is the threat here, not Orlais!" because that nets you Wulff's support. I've played through the Landsmeet several times and this is the only point on which the wiki hasn't worked for me. Without Wulff, you end up losing. You don't need to bring up slavery. Blight, Howe torturing, Eamon poisoning, and it's in the bag.

Unfortunately, I don't know exactly how many points this will give you besides Wulff's support, as Bann Alfstanna will speak up in favour of this argument.

dorkery (talk) 15:38, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to alerting to this, I lost track of the page and didn't see someone messing with the numbers and arguments. I ran about all possible combinations of the Landsmeet (though with just a single Warden, so I cannot be 100% sure), and without the argument of the Blight, you really shouldn't be able to win the Landsmeet, as you win by only a close margin, and without Wulf, even the additional support of the nobleman from the quest of the Crows is not enough. If you're curious, you can check the Forum I linked above, where I posted the results and calculations of my Landsmeet playthrough, and I would certainly welcome any help in refining them. --Ygrain (talk) 16:26, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

BTW, don't you recall if you ran the version Blight-slavery-Eamon, with the support of every single noble (Alfstanna, Sighard, Vaughan, Wulf, the Crows guy) you can garner? I assume that this should also be a win. --Ygrain (talk) 16:47, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

This can't be right , I tried it more than once : (focus on the Blight - torture dungeons of Howe - poisoning of Arl Eamon) and the votes of Alfstanna, Sighard and Wulff , that should be 5 points, but no, Loghain wins , even tried change the "torture" into "slavery" and didn't work also, tried change "the blight into "It's not I who betray ferelden" and still nothing changed, even tried (blight - slavery - torture) and always the same, all this with full 4 coercion skill, there is other thing here or the grand cleric voice is just 1 point not 2 , and this means you need Vaughan vote as well , or the trail of the crow , not sure but that uncertain made me mad after so much trying Elnawawi (talk) 03:52, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

The maths is a bit more complicated - either some arguments garnering votes count as zero, or there is some other condition that I haven't been able to establish, but indeed, without Anora you need an extra vote. If it helps you, your playthrough is very useful to confirm my prediction of this situation (and FYI, the argument of slavery is still a lose even with Vaughan's vote). I didn't want to hypothesize in the article, so I didn't mention the problem with point counting and my original edit included the extra votes but someone changed it since and I didn't notice. Thanks for the heads up, I'll correct it as soon as I can. --Ygrain (talk) 04:27, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Where to put dialogue example to get an outcome?

It took me a while reading The Landsmeet and also Possible Landsmeet Outcomes, but I got the outcome I wanted and wishes to add the dialogues and choices I used to get it.

Outcome:

The Landsmeet was won, even though Anora spoke against Alistair
Loghain was killed by the Warden
Alistair and Anora will rule jointly
Alistair remains with the party, and took -2 approval

How this was achieved:

Warden is human male Cousland (Rogue, high persuasion)
The usual: Alistair was hardened, quests to shore up support were achieved.
Anora is not totally offside

Landsmeet responses:

The Blight is the threat...
You sold Ferelden citizens into slavery...
Did you let Howe torture citizens...
What are you talking about?
He tried to kill you!
The Landsmeet is against you Loghain. Step down gracefully.
Call off your men and we'll settle...
I'll fight this duel myself

(One assumes allowing anyone other than Alistair to fight Loghain will work as well.)

After defeating Loghain:

You'll die for what you've done
No, that's crazy.
No. Loghain has to die for his crimes.

(Acceptance of fate by Loghain in reply)

Very well

(long dialogue now ensues with Anora and Alistair; the warden can switch between them)

I need to talk to Alistair first
What do you think I should do?
You seem so certain.
What makes you a better choice...
I want to talk to Anora as well.
What makes you a better choice...
You don't know that, he'll have my help and Eamon's.
Why should I trust you...
I'd like to speak to Alistair...
Should I choose Anora?
Do you think you are ready...
I want to talk to Anora as well.
Who do you think I should choose.
You're sort of a ruthless bitch.
Do you expect me to support you...
Why did you turn on me?
I'd like to speak to Alistair as well.

(More ... seems to repeat... but eventually I chose...)

I'm ready to choose
I believe Alistair and Anora should marry and rule jointly...
I could do no less my King.

Talk to Alistair after:

Is this a thank you?
You won't need my help...
And what about the Grey Wardens?
I think I could be convinced.

Taosin (talk) 01:37, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

The majority of the dialogue options are inconsequential for the outcome and so are the premises. I don't think it would be a good idea to include this as an example. I would rather support creating a detail Landsmeet dialogue page, with specific responses for each round of argumentation. --Ygrain (talk) 18:39, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Agree a separate Landsmeet dialogue page would be useful here. The permutations and length of the dialogue chains is amazingly long. I'd think placing dialogue examples in spoiler-like form would ease the task of referencing them on a page. Not sure what is meant by "The majority of the dialogue options are inconsequential for the outcome and so are the premises."

From the starting point above, I can easily achieve four or more radically different outcomes as a consequence of my choices. It is definitely the case that the wrong choice in the first couple of options of dialogue can prevent later outcomes the player may wish; and this is not clear at all to the player at the time when using the walkthrough page

As a walkthrough, I think The Landsmeet needs to more clearly highlight (at the beginning, maybe a strategy or overview section?) the consequences of this section of the game. That could point readers to required reading in the wiki if they are wishing to work to a specific outcome.

Also found that I can after defeating or persuading Cauthrian, I could make a hard save and leave the Landsmeet map to complete other tasks or come back to this later. Taosin (talk) 02:09, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Well... unless you want to marry Anora yourself, being HN doesn't matter for the options available, and being in Anora's good graces is not necessary, either, she will still grab the opportunity to rule even if you told her originally that you wouldn't support her.

The argumentation used at the Landsmeet has a single effect - either you win the vote and fight only Loghain in the duel, or you lose and you have to win the brawl first before you get to the duel. Other than this, it doesn't affect who becomes king or not, the only thing that matters is not let Alistair do the killing if you want to marry him to Anora. The responses to Loghain's or Anora's accusation do not change a thing.

The dialogue with Alistair and Anora can be entirely dropped, the choice to get the two marry can be done right away. The replies to Alistair once the choice is made do not affect anything.

I am rather curious about your Landsmeet debate, though. With the chain of arguments you present, you shouldn't be able to win, even if you have garnered the support of the nobleman related to the Trial of the Crows. Are you sure you used Howe's torture in the last argumentation round and not poisoning Eamon? --Ygrain (talk) 14:31, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

(reset indent ->)

I take the point that many things here are optional wrt 'winning' the game. But to me (and I think many players who invest in their character's choices and such), the exposition and choices made at the landsmeet is the payoff for the middle part of the game; and even 'fluff' is worthwhile knowing about. If the game is being played as an RPG (not simply a tactical set of manoeuvres), then all this comes into play. By the same token, summarizing the previous succinctly is well worth putting somewhere visible ahead of time.

What the landsmeet gives the the player is the opportunity to luxuriate in their intended payoff for the midsection of the game (if the player so wishes); and to define the future of Ferelden based on our past choices and the like. What isn't clear (and needs to be explained or at least flagged ahead of time) is how to achieve some of those intended payoffs twhen he game when doesn't make it clear ahead of time. It's pretty obvious (and documented in the wiki) that the game makes it ridiculously easy to 'lose' the goal of settling the landsmeet peacefully. And choices that may seem like a good idea at the time may mean Alistair leaves the party and can no longer be selected. (to name two).

(Definitely, the dialogue chain above is correct for the outcome I described. Reloaded and rechecked, added in two responses I had missed).

Here's some of what may be goals a player invests in:

Has the Warden worked to win the landsmeet peacefully and intends to do so?
Does the warden intend to keep Alistair in the party?
Who does the Warden intend to be ruler of Ferelden? Themselves, Alistair, Anora... etc
What does the Warden have in mind for Loghgain? Death, live, join the wardens?
... etc ( a better list of simple 'at stake' can be garnered from Possible Landsmeet Outcomes)

Taosin (talk)

If the complete dialogue tree can be provided, it should be on a different page since it's going to be extremely long, because the length of the article. Viktoria worked on The Peasant Revolution, which I think works. It may take a while to format though, so I'd recommend saving the code on Notepad. I don't know what the idea page name would be, or if it should go on the outcomes article.

As for what should or shouldn't be included, I think it may be better to include everything. The reasoning is that if there are missing pieces of the dialogue, some people may think it's incomplete. A compromise would be to include a small note of said dialogue does not have any effect on the outcome (it just has to be clear). ··· d·day! 22:16, July 15, 2013 (UTC)