|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Arl of Redcliffe article.|
- 1 Morrigan Bargain
- 2 Merging
- 3 This a glitch quest I can't complete
- 4 Jowan's availability
- 5 Bug with Ritual
- 6 Previous Conversations Important?
- 7 Results
- 8 Additional Reward
- 9 Lone mages in the party
- 10 Just stupid
- 11 Can someone try and duplicate this
- 12 Kill both Connor AND Isolde??
- 13 Intimidating the Demon
- 14 Looting the Desire Demon
- 15 Persuade Alistaire
- 16 Clarification, please?
- 17 Alistair approval at camp post-sacrifice/kill
- 18 Getting help from the mages ?
- 19 Killing Connor without knocking out Isolde
Morrigan Bargain[edit source]
I seem to recall that I was able to bargain with the demon using Morrigan and entering the Fade by sacrificing Isolde to Blood Magic. Not verified. --Tierrie 10:23, December 21, 2009 (UTC)
- I entered the Fade with Morrigan using Blood Magic, at this time she was the only mage in my party. She did not attempt to bargain with the demon, and said she 'knew her kind'. LTK 70 15:40, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
- I sent Morrigan to the Fade both with the circle and with blood magic, and was not able to bargain. --Lord Bremen (talk) 04:50, December 22, 2011 (UTC)
Should the "Attack at Nightfall" and "A village under Siege" sections be merged over to this article? Does the game treat them as separate quests? ... although I suppose, seeing as how both of those are optional, it sort of follows that they be in their own section. Anyway, opinions? - Ancestralmask 15:57, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
This a glitch quest I can't complete[edit source]
Is there a way to fix this problemOutcastNeedhelp 04:15, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
Jowan's availability[edit source]
I'm playing the XBox version, and Jowan is not an option to enter the Fade to free Connor. He says he cannot go because he must cast the ritual. As I have not been to the Circle yet on this playthrough, I am forced to fetch Morrigan in order to proceed and sacrifice the Arlessa.--188.8.131.52 02:20, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
I don't believe that is a bug. Jowan can enter the fade if someone else is casting, i.e., the circle. If you finish broken circle and side with the mages, and if you first allow Jowan to help when entering the castle, I believe you will then have the option of using Jowan to enter the fade. 184.108.40.206 17:32, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
- I'm sure this particular case was already resolved, but for future reference, 220.127.116.11 was correct. Jowan can't cast the blood-based ritual on himself, but enough Circle mages show up to cast the lyrium-based ritual on any named mage present. Hadn't thought of this before, but it reminds me of the fact that Irving can't be sent using Jowan's ritual either.Yeti magi (talk) 22:20, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
Bug with Ritual[edit source]
I encountered a bug when the throne room scene happens. Immediately after fighting the controlled Bann Teagen, I talked to Ser Perth who then glitches and asks if the Warden wants to go into the hall or for them to wait outside. After choosing go into the hall, the quest seemingly progresses to the scene between Isolde, Teagen and Jowan. After I chose to sacrifice Isolde the dialogue ends like if I chose for more time to think and the characters also talk as such and cannot be interacted with (Isolde actually vanished completely). The ritual cannot be done now and the only way to finish the quest is to go upstairs and kill Connor.
The game bugs a few more times when Bann Teagen refers to Connor dying and then Isolde sacrificing herself so Connor could live. The Warden also was stuck in battle stance until I exited into another screen.
So I guess don't talk to Ser Perth multiple times.
Previous Conversations Important?[edit source]
I used this guide step by step to get to the demon in the fade choosing only options not listed as leading to the desire demon offering a deal at the end and it still offered to bargain and accepted my proposed trade. I'm not sure any of the conversation options before the final confrontation matter at all. I intend to update the article to reflect this. Tetracycloide 05:03, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
The bullet points in the results section make it sound as if it is impossible to get a positive reaction from alistair if jowan's blood magic is used, however, in my own playthrough I used the ritual and, when confronted in camp, selected "I think that went quite well don't you?" To which Alistair's response was, basically, 'Thank you so much for all you've done.' Afterward another set of conversation options appeared the worst of which still netted me a minimum of +6 approval. My Alistair is 'hardened' so maybe that's why? Does saying "I think that went quite well don't you?" result in something different if he isn't?Tetracycloide 00:57, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
Answer: It's a confirmed bug. Alistair's response of thanking you is supposed to apply ONLY when you save both the arl's wife and son, because he feels that he owes it to the Arl to save his family. Choosing the "turned out well" option after killing one or the other triggers that response incorrectly. It's an obvious enough bug because part of Alistair's whole response involves thanking you for going out of your way to save the arl's family, which you obviously did not do if either the son or wife is dead. It has nothing to do with him being hardened at all. Given his reaction if you respond cruelly to his complaints otherwise, I think it should be rather obvious that responding to having killed either Connor or Isolde with "I think it turned out rather well, don't you," would net an extremely negative response from Alistair, not a thank you.
On the Dragon Age Nexus community, there's at least one mod that claims to fix the bug, but nothing I've installed has worked thus far.
Additional Reward[edit source]
I do not see this mentioned anywhere, but, I received +1 skill and +1 attribute for saving the Earl and at least one member of his family on PS3. Perhaps this should be added to the result section as I have had this reward repeatedly? It is prompted as if it were a level up, but it is not, as it does not change your level. Perhaps this is why others have missed it?
By saving all of them i got +1 skill as a rogue (PC 1.01 and 1.02) and +1 spell as a mage (PC 1.02).
Luciendar84 09:25, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
- Did you not also get +1 attribute point? XxSylphxx 14:03, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
- No attribute point (both characters) and +1 skill (not a talent, that would be equal to the bonus spell) for the rogue.
Luciendar84 16:39, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
- I better go back and recheck this for Landsmeet as well. What platform are you on? XxSylphxx 18:43, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
Lone mages in the party[edit source]
It should be noted that, in the event of only one mage being present in the party, their approval ratings may change. When I performed the ritual with Morrigan in my party, she first said it was a viable option, seeing as there was a willing sacrifice, but when I told her to go into the Fade, she scolded me for not asking her first, resulting in -10 approval. It's also not possible to talk to her about the ritual in the mean time, so Morrigan disapproving seems to be inevitable. LTK 70 14:31, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
Also, could whoever undid my edit to this article regarding the above, explain why?
Just stupid[edit source]
If your warden is not a mage and you kill or set Jowan free ( asking him to escape for good) but don't want to kill Connor you have a dialogue option "I want to speak to a mage first". But it is not true. You can only ask Morrigan. Irving and Wynne don't know anything about performing a ritual to send a mage into the fade. I wonder if Morrigan teached them how to perform the harrowing of the mage origin, too. Or perhaps Flemeth used to send Morrigan in the fade, gathering a group of mages and lyrium ?
- What version do you play? I know in one of my play throughs on the PS3 I left Morrigan out of my party for this part on purpose and when I chose the option that was a long the lines of "are there no other options?" Wynne spoke up and said it was possible to enter the Fade using mages and lyrium. It might depend on what dialouge options you choose to get Wynne to speak up about mages and lyrium. Bandit-Behind-Bars 22:45, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
- I think the dialogue order is just a bit clumsy. I assume the OP realises that the lines spoken are unrelated, then cobbled together depending upon your response and who is in the party. There are plenty of times where characters say contradictory things. I'm fairly certain Wynne has mentioned it in my games, but not right away.
Can someone try and duplicate this[edit source]
I ran into a glitch in my game. To start the battle for the village, I elected to begin with the knights at the top of the hill. After the cut scene, I accidentally initiated a conversation with Alistair. After killing a number of corpses, the knights sheathed their weapons and went in to a standby stance, but the messenger from the villagers didn't show to alert me about the attack below. I found a few more corpses up by the gate to the castle, but was still stuck after killing them. I went down to the village and everything was still quiet.
I loaded a quick save just after the cut scene without starting a convo and the quest played out correctly. I then tried again, this time talking to Zevran, and was glitched once more.
I have also encountered this. I accidentally got into a conversation with Zevran, and now the messengers haven't arrived. Anyone know a way to fix this? My last save was 3 hours ago. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 07:45, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
Kill both Connor AND Isolde??[edit source]
In the bugs section, it's suggested that it is actually possible to kill **both** Connor and Isolde. Far as I know, that's never an option at all. So was that a misprint or is there some means actually of killing them both?
- <sigh>No it doesn't say you can kill Mother and Son..
- If player discusses Jowan's plan first but decides against it, the codex will read that The Warden killed not only Arlessa Isolde but Connor as well even if the player chose to save both.
- Understand? If you only explore the option of using Blood Magic with Jowan it will make a note in the codex that they have both been killed when they in fact lived.
- The codex works like the dialogue. As an event occurs a new note is entered into the codex on that subject. So if you never discover a piece of information, it won't appear there. So in one game character Z lives and in another game Z dies. The codex entry changes to reflect that.
Intimidating the Demon[edit source]
Does anyone know how much of Intimidation score (ie. how many Ranks of Coercion skill) I need to convince the Demon to leave AND give me a reward?
Looting the Desire Demon[edit source]
I just thought I'd add that although the page says the Desire Demon can be looted if killed in the castle, I just killed her and chose to kill Connor with my main character (warrior) and I was not able to loot her. After killing her, the game jumped to a cutscene before she became lootable, and after all the other cutscenes were done, her body was gone. In case it matters, I'm playing with v1.04. Anyone know why this is? -Castcastcast (talk)
Persuade Alistaire[edit source]
Ok, I'm probably missing something somewhere, but it says that if I let Jowan go free to meet the Warden later that Alistaire can be convinced that this is the right course of action and you can avoid the -5 to his approval. I have not been able to figure out how to do this. I am only at improved coercion at the moment though...does it just simply need to be higher? DeloreanFanatic (talk) 16:16, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
Clarification, please?[edit source]
under 'Enter the Fade', approval changes are noted for
- suggesting killing Connor
- actually going through with it.
I'm not certain why "Shale is indifferent" is mentioned in the latter section. I'm assuming two possibilities:
1) whoever checked Shale, Oghren and/or Morrigan for reactions to this choice hasn't checked anyone else yet... (this is what i've always assumed was at work where there's a list of indifferent companions; of course nobody ever mentions Dog's lack of reaction!) in which case, carry on, nothing to see here!
2) the "go through with it" reactions supersede the "suggest it" ones... (i.e. if you suggest, then kill Connor, you lose 20 from Oghren rather than 30, and Shale's does not go up by 4) in which case the "actually kill Connor" segment should be formatted with extra indentation and something to the effect of "however...".
Alistair approval at camp post-sacrifice/kill[edit source]
When I had the post Isolde sacrifice convo with Alistair at camp I got the option to respond using Cunning that Alistair's problem w/ the sacrifice was more about his concern over the effect it would have on his relationship with Eamon. My char has 60 or so cunning so i'm unsure as to how much is actually needed for that response to come up.
- It says in the toolset that it requires a "medium" intelligence, or a GEN_INTELLIGENCE value of 4. I think this corresponds to a Cunning of 20. (I know that "high" intelligence, needed in conversation with Flemeth during the prelude, for example, corresponds to 30 Cunning). -Sophia (talk) 12:09, February 2, 2014 (UTC)
On a related aspect; it would be nice were the way to achieve, "a loss of only Disapproves (-9)", was outlined on the page. By sheer chance, on this playthrough, I reached the stage where I had no choice, and had to have Connor killed for the first time. I'd gone back to play an old favourite game, and this time, for a change, said that the mages could not be trusted once the Tower had been cleared. Then later, unthinkingly, I recalled I had a mod to correct the Jowan bug and pick up the quest to find him later; so told him to skedaddle too. Of course, come the crunch with Connor there were insufficient circle mages and no non-party blood mages, so I had no option but to kill Connor (as far as I know). Alistair doesn't seem to realise that and just says there must be something else one could have done, but reduces approval even when he admits there wasn't another option. I thought I'd done all the persuasion I could, but end up with -16 I think it was.
Ah update - not sure how I missed it but it is here http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Alistair/Approval That is something I've found with this site, it's sometimes difficult to know which page holds the info, and more cross-references would be helpful. In retrospect I'm unsure how i missed this one though.
And I must be confusing DAO with DAII. Had this strange idea that once maxed out approval didn't change :-(.
Getting help from the mages ?[edit source]
"If you have done the Broken Circle quest first you can only seek the Circle's help if the mages were saved." => I am not sure whether this sentence has hidden implications or not. If you do Broken Circle before the Arl of Redcliffe, you have to save the mages to get them to help you. But if you do the Arl of Redcliffe before Broken Circle, can you ask for the mages' help even if you side with the templars ? ...?? *confused* 22.214.171.124 (talk) 08:41, September 26, 2014 (UTC)
If you do Broken Circle before The Arl of Redcliffe there are 2 results: - you complete Broken Circle siding with the Mages - you complete Broken Circle siding with the Templars
When you do The Arl of Redcliffe and you get to the point where you discuss how to save Connor: - if you saved the Mages then one of the options is to ask the Circle Mages for help. - if you didn't save the Mages (you sided with the Templars) then going to the Circle Mages is not an option. If you go back to the Circle and ask for help the Mages cannot help you because you wiped them all out. --Hornacek (talk) 09:11, September 26, 2014 (UTC)