|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Supplier article.|
List of necessary ingredients Edit
Does someone know how much I must have of each ingredient to craft all recipes? I don't care much about the achiev, but I would like to craft as much items as possible.
Worst Achievement in the game? Edit
I've never been too fond of "collect everything" achievements in games, but I can understand why they are there and am not fundamentally opposed to them on principle. What makes this achievement so aggravating IMO is the fact that DAII reuses environments so frequently that you might pass by the same area 4 times in one Act, and miss the fact that they added in a resource during one of your many run-throughs of the same damn area. Yes...it completely makes sense why a crafting resource would appear in Castillon's Landing but not in the identical warehouse that was used by the Templars and Mages opposed to Meredith earlier in the act. Because they reuse the areas, you can't go back and reclaim the resources you may have missed. The constant reuse of the same environments was one of my biggest complaints about the game, so I'm not sure why Bioware would include a stupid achievements that requires the player to meticulously comb through the every inch of an environment every-time they reused it.
Reorganization proposal Edit
Let me start by saying that currently this list is VERY nicely organized.
My question is due to my opinion that this method of organization isn't very useful.
I'm not coming to this list thinking "mmm...I need some Deathroot...where can I find it?" and I am willing to bet no one else is either, considering the context of finding everything for the achievement.
Considering the context of this page, (items needed for the quest), the question in mind is probably "what items are in this area that I need to get?" or "What items do I need to get during this quest, before this area closes?"
I created a mock-up of my proposed organization on my sandbox here: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/User:Webgoof/sandbox
Why not just make a table with place/material sorting? I asked for the same on the companion armor page, and some good soul got it done. Shouldn't be any harder here. UMNiK (talk) 00:44, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
The one thing I'm a bit concerned is that it's basically the section "crafting resource" under Crafting (Dragon Age II). If anything, Supplier can possibly be moved to "Crafting resource" as new page (meaning "Crafting (Dragon Age II)" is split), with a section regarding the achievement. --D. (talk · contr) 00:49, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
@D-day -- I see what you are saying, but I believe the presentation of the information in the Crafting page (location of resources based on what resource you are looking at) is decidedly opposite to the way it would be best presented in context of the Supplier achievement (location of resources based on what location you are at)
Let me say this differently: I am trying to get the Supplier achievement. With the current setup of the Supplier page, I'm bouncing all over the place trying to find everything I need to get before I leave an area. It would be MUCH more useful if the information about each area (or quest)'s resources were together in one place, so I know to grab them before finishing/leaving.
Anyway, I believe anything more I say on the issue at this point is just beating the dead horse...I've presented my case as best I can, I defer to your judgement.
Oh, one other thing: I do like the sort-able table...that could really work, but it would be redundant to have it both on Supplier and Crafting resources...Perhaps just have an explanation of the requirements on the supplier page, and a link to the Crafting Resources page for the full list of resources and locations?
This, of course, would require some standardization of the location references...
- If we make a sortable table, then there's really no problem if the table is only listed in one page. I still stand on my opinion that it should the supplier achievement should be a section within an article listing all crafting resources, separate from the crafting page. Making two different pages based on the presentation is not efficient, and divides efforts to make the list complete. --D. (talk · contr) 15:07, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
@Webgoof: the way you put the list in your sandbox is actually the way it was before it was changed. Since I'm the one who changed the layout of the page, it's my responsibility to put it right again. I agree that your method is the best, but I'll just put back what was there before, I saved it on my computer just in case someone got angry that I changed the page. In hindsight, my way of organising wasn't the best, though I thought at the time it was good. I've only changed the heading of the page to provide more information about the Supplier achievement. --User:UncrushablePigeon (User talk:UncrushablePigeon · contr) 19:29, April 11, 2011 (UTC)
I made a sortable daotable, all the resource links are also fixed. (There might be some copy-paste errors in there) It seems the general opinion is that this is the best way to display the information, if you don't like it change it back :P Bumbi (talk) 16:30, May 6, 2011 (UTC)
Move candidate Edit
This is a follow-up of the above discussion.
I'm putting it up as a move candidate to "Crafting resource". The idea is to keep only one list (in a table), and get a section regarding the "Supplier" achievement above the list.
The other option is to merge the content with Crafting (Dragon Age II), but I think it makes more sense if we split "Crafting (Dragon Age II)" in two articles: "Crafting resource" and "Recipes (Dragon Age II)" (Recipes is for DAO). --D. (talk · contr) 03:31, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
I disagree with moving it to Crafting Resources. The wiki is about finding information you want the fastest way possible. People think, hey, I want the Supplier achievement, so that what's they type in, supplier. They should then arrive at the Supplier page, since that has to do with getting the achievement. The two pages share the same information, but that doesn't mean they should be merged. After all, by that line of thought all the dialogue pages of all the companions should be merged too, since they duplicate information. Then you should also start browsing all the locations where people have added lists of crafting resources, since that's also duplicate information. --User:UncrushablePigeon (talk · contr) 15:28, April 11, 2011 (UTC)
- "Supplier" becomes a redirect of the crafting resources page; I don't see the problem.
- Yes, dialogues are repeated on other pages, but this is different; if you want the dialogues for Varric specifically with other companions, you'll look for his page, not other companions'. Merging all dialogue pages together will make a big mess, unlike the supplier achievement. Wanting the supplier achievement is basically looking for crafting resources. Separate crafting resources like the ones from the Black Emporium can be separated in another section.
- So just because I'm suggesting merging one page doesn't mean this should apply to everything else; this is case-by-case. We're talking about making one single list, for easier management. --D. (talk · contr) 23:20, April 11, 2011 (UTC)
I understand what you say about easier management. It's true one table of information is easier to manage. Maybe a compromise would be good. People looking for information on achievements usually end up on the achievements page, on which there is a link for Supplier. The Achievements page says for Supplier: "Found every variety of crafting resources." But there's information pertaining to the achievement that's not on that page and that should stay on the current Supplier page (like which quests you can't avoid doing, how you have to find not just one of every variety but all occurences of every variety in game, etc etc) It's not about potions and bomb recipes and the cost of making them. That's why basic information about Supplier doesn't belong in a subsection of crafting resources, it's a different topic.
The compromise I suggest is not merging the pages but merging the tables with information as suggested, putting the table on the crafting resource page and linking to it from the Supplier. The list on the Supplier page is organised differently (restored as it was before) by location/quest), not by resource type, but as suggested earlier, the solution is a sortable table. Does that sound good? --User:UncrushablePigeon (talk · contr) 9:43, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
- Woops, I forgot to check this page back. My bad. :']
- Anyway, by linking to it, do you mean transcluding or just normal link? Either way is good. Using a sortable table is still the best format to present this (it's also used for other pages like Companion armor).
- I'm removing the move candidate, per this discussion. --D. (talk · contr) 23:45, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
This article should be amended to include the need to recruit Fenris. If Fenris is not recruited, you cannot do the quest "A bitter Pill." Without that quest you will miss two resources needed for the achievement...
List is 67 Materials Long Edit
The list of 66 materials is 67 items long. This is because of Rotting Cave and the no-article "Cave" in Act 2 being the same place. At least I hope so; currently working down this list and I can't see any way there could be 2 caves in the bone pits for the quest "Forbidden Knowledge" I didn't edit the article incase I'm wrong and I'm also a wiki newb :p
^ I agree with the post above me. I've been checking the Act Summaries and the Lyrium crafting resource page. Both say/suggest that there are only 3 Lyrium resources in Act II. The Forbidden Knowledge page also says that there are only 2 Lyrium available (as opposed to 3 as this page suggests) in both locations. I also checked The Bone Pit page and it seems that both 'Cave' and 'Rotting Cave' are the same area. The Rotting Cave addition should be removed to prevent future confusion. I shall take the liberty of removing it myself. Someone else can undo the edit later if they disagree. 126.96.36.199 (talk)
Include Black Emporium? Edit
It is my understanding that if you buy the materials in The Black Emporium DLC you still successfully unlock the achievement, hence this is an alternate method for completion. Is there any reason for this information not to be listed?
Also a question to go with this, has anyone tested to be sure you can buy the crafting materials you never had access too due to quest choices (i.e. Ambrosia if Isabela doesn't return)? That's aspect I haven't tested personally. --RoseLegion (talk) 20:54, October 29, 2011 (UTC)
The only problem with the Black Emporium is that if you miss more than one of a supply in an act it stacks in the Black Emporium store list and will then only count as one resourse towards the trophy even though it counts as multiples in your list at your home in the game. I ran into this problem and now have to either backtrack all the way to my one save from act 1 and hope that I can still get it or else start a new game to get the trophy for it, since it won't unlock when I buy my two missing spindleweeds.
I can possibly backtrack to the end of act 2 and try and get it by picking up the one I missed in Lowtown and then in act three try and buy the other one through the emporium and hope that works. I think I'm going to finish the game first though since I have two main quests left, then I'll go back and mess around with that. Still this tropy/achievement is a bigger pain then it really should be and they should just completely patch it so that Black Emporium works correctly with stacked resourses.
As far as the Ambrosia and the Felandaris from Isabel and Merrils quests I was under the impression that they didn't appear in the emporium after act 3, but I could be wrong at least for the one from Merril's.--Snake241074.36.203.98 (talk) 15:49, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
Potential Bug Edit
So I started act 3, and noticed that there was one Spindleweed to collect in this act. I found that strange, because I checked my ingredients, and I already had 6/6 Spindleweed. Sure enough, the Spindleweed in Lowtown was there. I don't know why this happened, but I do remember at the start of act 2 that I noticed a Spindleweed for sale at the Black Emporium. I simply assumed I had missed it, since I wasn't tracking my ingredients too well to that point, so I bought it. Seems like there's some kind of issue related to the game tracking your collected ingredients. My suspicion is that it has something to do with the order that you get the ingredients in. Can anyone else confirm this? If it is an isolated incident, not worth it to add it to the main page.. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:07, January 6, 2013 (UTC)
- It's a bug. Do not buy the Spindleweed if you've already collect them, as it can bug the Supplier achievement (it's noted on Emporium's Crafting Materials). I'll add it later on this article since it's related. ··· d·day! 21:11, January 6, 2013 (UTC)