|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Softened article.|
I haven't personally confirmed all the dialogue requirements on this page. A lot of the sources I found only mention needing to tell her not to kill the traitor and to tell her the men aren't dispensable.
In my currently playthrough, I didn't offer sympathies to her while she was praying. I did tell her not to kill the traitor and I plan on telling her the men aren't dispensable, so we'll see if she still softens. If anyone else can confirm/deny the other requirements, that would be good to know. Heidirs (talk) 17:29, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
Well done. Added confirmation link at "Notes" section and references at Leliana's main page, her personal quest page and at corresponding epilogue section. I'm on my first playthrough too and I completely missed all this data before her quest. Hardened Leliana is disappointing me too much. So, good job. Alketal (talk) 18:01, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
I found a softening video example that uses both the "Stop torturing yourself" and the "it was necessary" dialogue (near the end of the video) and Leliana remains softened. My problem with it is the "necessary" dialogue you get from Leliana sounds like she's turning hardened. Makes me wonder if this is some kind of bug. Heidirs (talk) 18:37, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
Still unconfirmed. But someone wrote comment under that video.
- it isn't a bug. even if you do not kill both of those people, if you answer her at the end of the sequence in valence with "it is necessary" it results in partial hardening... there are more factors than just these two events and that one piece of dialogue as well, but those two events (the butler and the sister) are the most pivotal, and ending with "it is necessary" instead of "let it go" will undo the efforts not to harden.
The more I look into this, the more it sounds like there are several factors that go into softening Leliana with some possibly having more weight than others (telling her not to kill the traitor, instance). You might be able to choose the "it was necessary" dialogue and still end up softening her OR it could go the other way depending on other options you did earlier. Like a hidden approval rating we don't know about. "Required" might not be the right word. But definitely "strongly recommended" to follow the outline we have to ensure Leliana stays softened. Heidirs (talk) 20:12, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
Interesting idea. I think it can be added to the "Notes". Something like "Softening mechanics is still unclear. There are several factors that go into softening Leliana with some possibly..." - and the rest of your previous message. This can attract new people to this discussion and start further investigations. Alketal (talk) 06:56, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
So I didn't offer my sympathies but was still able to harden her. However, there's another conversation with Leliana regarding her reaction the the Divine's death that I think could also have some weight on softening her depending on your choices. I think we should leave the "my sympathies" part in until we understand more of how this works. Heidirs (talk) 17:06, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
Not sure if this helps, but I did everything in the softening list EXCEPT I missed the talk about the Traitor as I kept forgetting to talk to her, she still ended up hardened so that is definitely a vital step.
- I can confirm this. I did everything else the page mentioned except I "did nothing" when she wanted to kill the butler and she still ended up killing Natalie. This really sucks. I wanted a compassionate Leliana for the ending. :( Honestly I think it really is as simple as making all the choices correctly. Either get them all right or you're screwed. Eternalspirit (talk) 05:45, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
From reviewing the conversation code, there are two (and only two) requirements to enable the option to avoid killing Natalie: 1. You must stop her from killing the traitor (Selecting 'Do you have to kill him?', as mentioned in the main page). 2. You must not select 'They're soldiers' in the first Skyhold dialogue (which therefore means you must select 'Our men our not disposable', also as mentioned on the main page. Finally, the softening will occur when you select 'Stop torturing yourself' after saving Natalie. The first conversation, where the main page advises selecting 'My Sympathies', none of your selections are recorded; it does not matter which options you pick for softening. Likewise, the 'Return to Skyhold' section is not necessary to "cement" the softening. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 03:12, July 27, 2015 (UTC)
Just to support what some are saying above. This is a fine information page, but I suspect most, like myself, visit it at or after Leliana's quest, by which time it is all too late to make such decisions. It is a pity one can not be guided here earlier from elsewhere in the wiki. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 13:49, October 29, 2015 (UTC)
I totally missed the butler conversation and just convinced Leliana not to kill Sister Natalie. Based on the logic here and my experience, it seems you can miss the butler conversation all together, but if you do have the conversation, you cannot say "do nothing", you must say "Do you have to kill him?".--220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:14, February 20, 2016 (UTC)
Inspired vs SoftenedEdit
Should we change the title of the page? I noticed on the page for the Trespasser Epilogue under "leliana's Whereabouts" she is listed as being either "inspired" or "steeled." I'm not sure where those terms came from, if they are in game somewhere or something, but they definitely make a good distinction between "hardened" and "softened" from DAO. If we do change this page name, we'd also need to rename things in the Inquisition Epilogue and Leliana's main page to reflect the same language. Heidirs (talk) 21:56, March 13, 2017 (UTC)
- In the future I'd suggest waiting more than 2 days to get consensus from others before making such a big change. I'm personally opposed to the change; "Softened" and "hardened" are mechanics players are used to and most likely what they'd search for when looking for this part of the gameplay. "Inspired" is not, and it could easily be confused with Inspire. I'm going to change the name back to the original until/unless we get more people chiming in. --♫ Kelcat Talk 02:00, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
- Is it possible the naming scheme came from the Keep? I haven't looked through it much for Inquisition info (I don't have much unlocked), but I'm wondering if there's a more official naming scheme for it there. Daft inquisitor (talk) 08:12, March 17, 2017 (UTC)
- May I suggest having both? Old timers will think of it as hardening or softening and search on those, but if one reads about it on the Keep for the first time, realizes this was a choice and wonders how to change it, they will search by the official "inspired" or "steeled". The page could have the official term with the unofficial/old term in parens/quotes next to it, to have both sets for when players search.
- Edit: That might be a better change on Leli's Inquisition page, and point the ("softened") and ("hardened") to their respective pages. (Example: in the sentence: "Note: These choices influence Leliana and affect her personality being Softened" both terms could be there: "Note: These choices influence Leliana and affect her personality being Inspired (Softened)" and linked here.)