Talk:Qunlat

There is a language heading on the main Qunari page

Or are you proposing to branch it out into a separate page? Just asking becuase the Qunari page has a larger vocabulary list. Legionnaire Scout *talk* 02:58, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

A much, much longer version. And before an action like that is taken we should probably A) take it up on the qunari talk page or forums, and B) consult an admin if people were indeed in favor of it. Balitant (talk) 03:27, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to it myself. The heading under the Qunari page is getting longer with the addition of material from DA2, and having a page alphabetized might help the organization of such a list. But, I agree it should probably get a shout out on the Qunari talk page, if it hasn't already. Legionnaire Scout *talk* 03:39, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Pretty much the same stance I have LegionnaireScout.... but I have to admit I'm not sure about this user in terms of if he is alive. If he can generate 650 edits in ten days then I honestly think he is a bot; and if its true then it is not likely he would converse. Balitant (talk) 03:46, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

He's doing a lot of mini edits. The thing about the new page that gives me pause is that it does not copy any of the material in the existing section on the Qunari page and contains a great many ? for material that exists elsewhere. Legionnaire Scout *talk* 04:04, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

I personally do no see a problem with splitting the page. It's actually already done with Elven Language. It should be renamed to "Qunari language" though. --D. (talk · contr) 04:16, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the above editor.I'm all for a page for the Qunari words. I don't know why he isn't using all the work we've already contributed to the qunari page which is already more developed than his speculation, which he isn't even sure of. Copy/Paste what's already done + Page rename?--Kuzzzzco (talk) 04:17, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Oh I'm real. I just hadn't ever looked at the Qunari page. This page was more or less a spur of the moment "Hmmm, that would be nice" that hit me during the Act II. -Caraamon (talk) 21:56, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

---

Well its official that this is now a discussion for splitting the Language section on the Qunari page (we don't need to consult admins as D-day told me, so I'm sorry for bothering you). I'll just point that me speculating that a certain user is bot has no bearing on such a discussion, so I'll drop it. I will cast my vote in favor of splitting it considering that there is enough information in that section to warrant splitting a page. The how we do it though probably should utilize the information that currently exists though, as opposed to starting from scratch. Balitant (talk) 04:22, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Hurrah! So are we decided on a name change for the page? (Btw, when I said someone was speculating, I meant Legionnaire Scout's word definitions.--Kuzzzzco (talk) 04:31, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, "?" = speculation in Legionnaire-ese :) I prefer "Qunari Language" and a copy of existing material from the main page. I do like alphabetical heading structure though I realize the Elven Language page does not have this feature. Legionnaire Scout *talk* 04:38, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Considering how long that language section has been on the qunari page, then there should be a link at the bottom that comes to the new page. As for getting it done, I would be somewhat willing to tackle it after Wednesday. Until then I am strapped for time. Though if you guys are willing then I'd cheer on any edits you make. Lets just keep a checklist of things we would like done though:

• Re-naming the page "Qunari Language" to mirror the Elven Language page
• Alphabetized
• check for speculation, though to my knowledge most of the phrases and words are currently correct on the Qunari page
• No question marks in the new page (my own little want considering the stabs in the dark Caraamon seemed to be making)

If you guys have any other request then go ahead with suggestions. Balitant (talk) 04:54, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

There are a couple of phrases that are included, that have as a definition 'meaning unknown'. I'd rather have a translation, but I also want to capture the phrases until a translation is developed. I wound up copying them over so as not to lose them.

• Created a section for phrases/idioms. I wasn't wildly fond of the 'social' subsection on the other page since it was hard to determine what was being interpreted as social, as opposed to some other language classification. Legionnaire Scout *talk* 23:59, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

The meaning of Kadan

Was just doing a bit of editing based on what we agreed and when I came to try Kadan, I found that the old meaning had changed on the Qunari page. The old meaning we had was something along the lines "A person one values highly, literally where the heart lies". The newer version is:

 "Term for someone that is valued highly. The Warden is called this for retrieving Asala, it likely means something like "brother" or "comrade". Kadan-Fe could mean something like "brotherhood" or "comrades in arms"."

I will state it right now, I don't like this newer translation because it implements a lot of speculation. Any thoughts? Balitant (talk) 06:33, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

I was skeptical with this translation myself, but there is some merit to it. In Sten's Nightmare, the dream qunari accompanying Sten refer to each other as kadan, so the implication of 'brother' or 'comrade' could be understood. I don't know about the Kadan-Fe meaning brotherhood, but it doesn't seem far-fetched; of course, that doesn't mean it's also true, so the assumption would be better left elsewhere, possibly in a Trivia section at the bottom?--Kuzzzzco (talk) 06:57, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Questioning some definitions

My random synaptic firings, posted for discussion/second opinion, or fingerpointing and laughter:

Karataam: A group of qunari mages and their handlers.

Taam, the suffix, if it means something analogous to a team or unit, and Kara, the prefix to military titles (Karashok), does that imply to anyone else that 'karataam' is not made up of saarebas and arvaarad specifically, but is a term for a unit, patrol or team?

Katara: (You) die.

This definition, in combination with the term "Basra" lead me to think of '-ra' as a suffix indicating a personal pronoun. The the root word would be kata or bas, and the addition of -ra would make it a personal directive or application.

Ketojan: A bridge, specifically a bridge between worlds (religion). It is the name given to the Saarebas by Sister Petrice.

Where is this definition coming from? If the Qun views gods as illusion, what religion uses this term? I'm also having a hard time thinking that Petrice is using a qunari word. If it is not an ingame term, then the place for this would be the page for that character, (ketojan), as trivia.

Thoughts?

--Legionnaire Scout *talk* 12:21, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Karataam I agree seems more like a general "squad" of qunari warriors, nonspecifically one containing an arvaarad or saarebas. I think we should look at some other qunari words before we assign a meaning to "taam," though, just to be sure.

I agree with the suffix -ra implying a directive, and would be in favor of putting that on the main page. It seems logical and is consistent in at least two places.

• I just thought, this also makes me question whether 'hissra' means illusion, or just 'hiss,' as the quote goes, "Ashkost say hissra!: Seek peace with your gods!" Perhaps the -ra after hiss is saying specifically your gods rather than gods itself.
  • Nevermind. "Shok ebasit hissra: Struggle is an illusion."

The Qun is a religion; not a deistic religion, no, but one nonetheless. Buddhism, for example, doesn't worship any gods, but is a spiritual orthodox. Obviously "ketojan" isn't an English word, and to my knowledge isn't from any other real-world language to have been alluded to in-game (such as that one Antivan cursing in Spanish), which suggests it's a qunari word, because I can't imagine what other of the fictional dialects would be relevant to the situation. Petrice being linguistically informed, however, also struck me as odd, especially since she's so deeply resentful of the qunari and doesn't seem the type to broaden her perspective. The definition came from Petrice, too; she explained it in reference to Ketojan being a "bridge between worlds," presumably that of the qunari and the Chantric Thedas.

If I may add my own:

• aban and aqun — mentioned in the Qun excerpt, "Meraad astaarit, meraad itwasit, aban aqun: "etc.... but the sea is changeless." I personally believe that "aqun" means changeless, as in 'qun' itself being a word meaning order, discipline, commandment, or fate, with the 'a' prefix making it an adjective. This would mean Ariqun would be the "Person of the Practice," or something. Aban would then be 'sea,' according to this logic.
• gena — obviously too early to tell what this translates to directly, but it should have something to do with the mind, crafts, or labor.
• kith — as in kithshok, or kith(something) being something militarily-related. Gaider mentioned this prefix when talking about Sten's division but omited the ending intentionally.
• vaarad — There's basvaarad, arvaarad, and an item, Chains of the Vaarad. Perhaps this means 'leader,' in a simple sense? As well, in the definition for Arvaarad, it should also be mentioned that they are secondarily charged with hunting tal'vashoth as they are monitoring saarebas.

I've been looking at the qunari weapons looted from the game to try and find translations from the type of weapon they are, the stat bonuses they give and what classes can use them, but have had some trouble locating a lot of the corresponding information to the names. Here's my list:

• Gloves (Warrior)
  • Notas-Taar Eva
  • Notas-Taar Iss
  • Notas-Taar Katoh

• Staves
  • Saartoh Bas-Vat Iss
  • Saartoh Bas-Vat Eva
  • Saartoh Bas-Vat Katoh

• • Saartoh Bas-Kos Eva
  • Saartoh Bas-Kos Iss
  • Saartoh Bas-Kos Katoh

• • Saartoh Bas-Tic Eva
  • Saartoh Bas-Tic Iss
  • Saartoh Bas-Tic Katoh

• Boots (Warrior)
  • Sataam-Taar Eva
  • Sataam-Taar Iss
  • Sataam-Taar Katoh

• • Antaam-Taar Eva
  • Antaam-Taar Iss
  • Antaam-Taar Katoh

• • Asalaa-Taar Eva
  • Asalaa-Taar Iss
  • Asalaa-Taar Katoh

• • Mertam-Saar Eva
  • Mertam-Saar Iss
  • Mertam-Saar Katoh

• Chest (Mage)
  • Taaras-Saar Eva
  • Taaras-Saar Iss
  • Taaras-Saar Katoh

• Gloves (Mage)
  • Aqaam-Saar Eva
  • Aqaam-Saar Iss
  • Aqaam-Saar Katoh

• • Asabas-Saar Eva
  • Asabas-Saar Iss
  • Asabas-Saar Katoh

• Amulet (Mage)
  • Taamsala Eva
  • Taamsala Iss
  • Taamsala Katoh

• Belts
  • Nehrappan Eva
  • Nehrappan Iss
  • Nehrappan Katoh

• 2h Axes
  • Taam-Kas Eva
  • Taam-Kas Iss
  • Taam-Kas Katoh

• • Sata-Kas Eva
  • Sata-Kas Iss
  • Sata-Kas Katoh

• Greatsword
  • Valo-Kas Eva (+22 Health/+55 Health)
  • Valo-Kas Iss (+44 Health/+117 attack)
  • Valo-Kas Katoh

I believe Taar relates to Warriors and Saar to mages, as far as some of the the adjunct terms go. --Kuzzzzco (talk) 20:35, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

There appears to be too much speculation in regards to a few terms. Perhaps a section similar to the deconstructing elvish one the Elven language will help with that. A section where we can give arguments for our reasoning to what a certain term means. Though don't post anything in regards to equipment. We have no in game dialogue or codex entries to find meaning, so we can only speculate. Edit: that might have been too ambiguous, don't put the words regarding that equipment in the vocabulary section.

The last thing I'll point out is I am not sure if Ketojan is a qunari word, consider how she reacts to a player confronting her with a diplomatic dialogue option. She says something along the lines as "you are using one of their words" when saying the word Karataam. Balitant (talk) 21:06, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable! If anyone would like to spearhead a deconstruction section, it would certainly be appreciated. And you're right, which begs the question: where did "Ketojan" even come from?--Kuzzzzco (talk) 21:35, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

I recall now that Petrice isn't the one to comment on a character using qunari words, it's the leader of the Winters mercenaries responding to Saemus calling her a "Vashedan bitch." I think there might have been confusion, so Ketojan may very well be a qunari word. I might be wrong, though? [1] Time 1:40.--Kuzzzzco (talk) 22:16, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

No. When confronting Petrice on one of my playthroughs in Shepherding Wolves she specifically made issue when I used the "diplomatic" type of responses. She litrally says something along the lines of "that is one of their words" when My Hawke mentions the word Karasaam, implying that she thought my character was corrupted in some sense if he was using their words. I am aware about what Saemus says in the quest, and the response he gets, but it is a different example that does not concern the phrase Ketojan. Balitant (talk) 21:48, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Compiling links

Considering how some of the information of these terms was confirmed by developer posts, we should probably make an effort to compile them on this page as external links. Kind of like here [2] Gaider gives details on the Tammasrans. This will help ensure (I hope) that fewer people will wish to insert their own interpretations for words that have had their meaning established (this is precautionary only, no one has done this yet). Balitant (talk) 02:38, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

I find that it helps, some, and sometimes I link to the debates on the talk page, as well. There will always be someone, though, who comes through and needs to have the last word. Just gotta keep an eye on it.  ;) Bellaknoti (talk) 23:45, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

The meaning of An

I was asked to look over the Qunari page, and I've been trying to wrap my head around the language, with minimal success, however, one thing sticks out to me: an. It's used in the following words:

• anaan - victory
• basalit-an - a non-qunari worthy of respect
• kadan - friend/brother
• panahedan - goodbye
• shanedan - greeting, respectful
• talan - truth
• tamassran - priest who educates younglings
• vashedan - crap/trash

Now, it seems to me that all of these save the last carry connotations of respect, and if some or all of 'vashed' is a negation, then 'an' would be 'respect', or something close to it, yes? Bellaknoti (talk) 23:32, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Article Name

Wouldn't it be better to call the article the "Kossith language" instead of the "Qunari language"? Asherinka (talk) 13:05, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Isn't the language Qunari rather than kossith though? --D. (talk · contr) 14:38, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but it's logical to assume that races usually have languages, not religions.. Asherinka (talk) 16:18, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

The race isn't necessarily the name of the language, as it is part of the culture. There is a Tevinter language and an Orlesian language, so I think Qunari language would be possible.

The closest I can get for the actual language is Mary Kirby stating "Qunari language" in this thread and David Gaider in here. Granted, this shouldn't be taken as canon, but I think it is safer to keep it as "Qunari language" than "Kossith language". --D. (talk · contr) 16:41, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

References

I added references to almost all the words, except for 6. I think, these are pure speculations and I would delete them:

• Armaas - a guess, see Trivia on the character's page (I would also delete trivia on this page)
• Gena - a guess, derived from Arigena (I would also delete Trivia on the Arigena page)
• Taam - a guess, derived from Artaam and Karataam

As a matter of fact, I would also delete Trivia on this page: I also think it is a guess, not a literary meaning.
The ones that might be true, but I can't find any sources (Probably used by Sten?):

• Atashi: Dragon
• Kashaari: A jeweler
• Talan: Truth

Opinions? Asherinka (talk) 16:21, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with all the proposed deletions, and would additionally propose that the last three be removed if no sources can be found. ----Isolationistmagi 01:49, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Bringing Sten to fight the High Dragon in the area Dragon's Lair may lead to him commenting "Now that is atashi". It is a bit speculative, but it almost a certainty that he is referring to the dragon. The bit about the Tammasrans is not speculation, one of the writers confirmed it at one point though I would not be able to provide a link. As for the rest I can agree. The thing is that there is no official translation of the language, thus it comes down to trying to find the best possible meaning behind the words themselves. Balitant (talk) 01:18, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I searched the BSN for any developer posts re Tamassrans, they are all listed here. And none of them ever says how it is to be translated. Tamassrans are a branch of priesthood and may act as teachers. That doesn't mean the word is translated as a "priest" or "teacher." Ben-Hassrath act as law enforces, and yet this word is translated as "the heart of the many." "Tamassran" could literally mean anything as well.

Re Dragon - I think we should keep it then and add a reference. What is the exact line Sten says, Balitant? Asherinka (talk) 08:12, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

I've been trying to find a video but no luck. I'll search later, but the best I can do right now is give the Sten/Dialogue page. Its under the remarks section about the sacred ashes quest. Balitant (talk) 13:20, March 29, 2012 (UTC)