Talk:Loghain Mac Tir

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I updated the page to state that Loghain is in fact the Teyrn of Gwaren, as stated in The Stolen Throne: "After the war, Maric had elevated Loghain to the nobility and made him the Teyrn of Gwaren," page 398. --Celestial Wurm 17:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

"Your best bet is to use Morrigan [...]" - Phrases like 'your best bet' are a poor choice for this kind of guide, as it makes all kinds of assumptions about the player's party. Especially in this instance, since rogues can simply hide in stealth and pelt Loghain with ranged attack items without being seen. 91.104.233.143 10:33, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Pic problem

The image in the "info-box" looks different than normal, suddenly (using firefox). Sometimes this happens when trying to overwrite the existing image. -- Snfonseka

I think the image of young Loghain from the cover of 'The Stolen Throne' would go nicely in this article, but what do others think? - wandrew (talk)

Secret Companion

I know that it's possible to get Loghain as a companion with the penalty of alistair leaving. I'm wondering what type of moves he knows, what class he is and is he strong? Will he be a powerful companion that is worth replacing alistair with?

- For the most part he's same as Alistair, as in that he is a sword and shield warrior. AbsolutGrndZer0 10:59, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Pretty sure you CAN use the dog, at least I know I had the option... or does he refuse to duel the dog if you select the dog? AbsolutGrndZer0 11:01, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Dog is not an option, as shown through this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpIkavGX5iY Coroxn 15:52, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Is there a way to pursuade alistair into staying? I have been able to pursuade flawlessly so far so I would like to know.

If Loghain lives, Alistair leaves the party. It's as simple as that and there's no way around it. (Alistair can still become king with the right choices on the part of the player - see Alistair's Family - but he will no longer be a companion.) --Zoev 17:10, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Age-related query

In "The Stolen Throne" and subsequently in DA:O how old is Loghain? When they meet with Rowan in the novel she says that her brother Arl Eamon is only 11. Let's pretend they were around 18-20 years old at the time. Then they travel around with the Rebel Army for 4-5 years before the Battle at River Dane takes place. Then Loghain has a daughter (Anora) whom Arl Eamon refers to being around 30. That means Loghain must be around 65-70 years old and Eamon around 58-60. While you could picture Eamon being that old, Loghain's age in DA:O seems quite misplaced. Somebody thought about this at all?--Gvg870 01:52, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

The Battle of River Dane was around 30 years before the start of DA:O in 8:99 Blessed so if we suppose Loghain was in his mid-twenties at that point (which makes sense), then he's still only in his mid-fifties in DA:O. This makes sense to me, but it did strike me that Eamon isn't looking good for his late forties/early fifties. That posion must really have taken it out of him! Zoev 02:56, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

French Translation

j'aime beaucoup votre article sur le Teyrn Logain

moi, qui aime beaucoup ce personnage, qui va droit au but et n'aime pas les discutions stérile!

je n'ai pu convaincra Alistair à rester, j'ai pourtant tout tanter!

comme, je n'ai pu, par manque de temps, dépasser le stade de la simpathie modéré avec le Teyrn Logain, que je déplore, tout comme je déplore le fait qu'il n'y a aucune possibilité de romance avec lui, même, petite, soit-elle.

j'aurais tant de choses à lui dire

j'ai l'impression d'abandonner Alistair à son sors et de partager la compagnie d'un nouveau compagnon, sans aucune évolution possible

difficile, tout de même de devoir choisir entre Alistaire et Loghain

on peu comprendre sa frustration en voyant le Teyrn devenir un garde des ombres!

on se sent coupable, tout de même

la fin, trop précoce, de Duncan et du roi

le role de chef me convient très bien

la diversité de caractères des personnages, me ravie!

garder,et faire sa place, voila, la maître mot!

le choc des titans! face au Teyrn Logain

pourtant, un seul problème demeure, insurmontable, frustration et déception à la foi, je ne peux me voir saluant la foule, domage...

je reste donc sur ma fin

dame catherine

^^^

Someone care to translate this? Seems a little out of place on an (almost) entirely English site.

Courtesy of Google Translate:

"I love your article on Teyrn Logain

me, who loves this character, who goes straight to the point and do not like discussing sterile!

I could not convince Alistair to stay, yet I have any aunts!

as I could, for lack of time, move beyond the A cozy with moderate Teyrn Logain, I deplore, as I deplore the fact that there is no possibility of romance with him, even ::, small, it is.

I would have so much to say

I feel abandoned Alistair her go and share the company of a new companion, without any possible changes

difficult, still have to choose between Alistaire and Loghain

we just understand his frustration at seeing the Teyrn become a Keeper of the shadows!

you feel guilty, anyway

late, too early, and Duncan King

the role of Chief suits me very well

diversity of characters characters, I delighted!

keep, and make his place, here, the key word!

the clash of titans! facing Teyrn Logain

However, one problem remains, insurmountable frustration and disappointment with the faith, I can not see me waving to the crowd, a shame ...

I am therefore on my end

lady catherine"

Very accurate I'm sure ;). Loleil ^Talk 04:13, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

^^^ Here is a more accurate translation (my French is by no means the best, but it'll help convey the lady's message better than Google :>)

I really liked your article on Teyrn Loghain.

I love his personality; I like how he gets straight to the point and doesn't like flat, boring conversations.

((My French isn't great... but I think she's saying something along the lines of how she could no longer convince Alistair to stay because Loghain tempted her.))

((The next few lines I believe she's saying she's disappointed that after gaining Loghain's approval how there was no romance.))

I would have so many things to tell him.

I got the impression of abandoning Alistair and sharing the company of a new companion without any possible development.

In any case, it is difficult to choose between Alistair and Loghain.

You can really understand Alistair's frustration in seeing Loghain become a Grey Warden!

All the same, we feel guilty either way.

The deaths of Duncan and the King were too early.

((I think she's saying that she likes the role of King...))

The diversity of all the characters is amazing!

((This is where I get lost for the rest of the comment. It says something about protecting and making your place, a tremendous shock and Loghain's reaction.))

((Her last comment is saying how there was one problem that has bothered her to no end and it's how she can't watch the scene of her Hero of Ferelden being celebrated by Denerim at the end of the game.))

Hope that and the Google translate clears up any confusion!

--131.202.202.46 (talk) 06:49, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Expanded role

What role will Loghain have in Awakening if he lives through the first game?

a boring and short one and only if your king

Both Loghain and my character survived the archdemon. Then I started with Awakening and he didn't show up... wasn't he supposed to appear at the begining? I didn't want to see Anora :( --Akanthar (talk) 22:37, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Loghain on female Warden

"You're pretty for a Grey Warden. Don't let anyone tell you that you don't belong. The first Warden Maric brought to Ferelden was a woman, best warrior I've ever seen." To city elf female Warden at Ostagar. (He was most likely referring to Genevieve.) Maric didn't really bring Genevieve to Ferelden, and Loghain never saw her "in action". He was most likely refering to some other female Warden, coming to Ferelden after "The Calling". Deleted the assumption).

Perhaps, he's refering to Warden Commander Polara, Duncan's predecessor.--Virrac (talk) 10:59, November 11, 2015 (UTC)

Riordan's Choice

Alright, I've beat Dragon Age: Origins for the 7th time (or was it 9th time? Not sure) and I was wondering: From all the people who could be a fine Grey Warden, why would Riordan chose Loghain? Why not one of the finest knights of Arl Eamon? Why not one of our companions? I never understood that. Does anyone know why would Riordan make Loghain a Grey Warden after all he has done for the "sake" of Ferelden? --Rocketai (talk) 23:45, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Well, as he said, Logain was a great and popular general, while your companions are not.--Akanthar (talk) 22:34, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Riordan is probably a type of person to not waste valuable resources and/or allies, and since Loghain would have been killed otherwise, proposing he become a Warden would potentially save a life to be used against a greater threat than what Loghain created which is the Blight. As said before he is a very great and talented general with much experience and skill, and to have him killed in Riordan's eyes is probably a waste of said skills. They don't recruit people for their personality and/or deeds for the most part, but at least Loghain's intentions were for the good of Ferelden if not his methods. He had done much for Ferelden in the past, and did everything in his eyes for the sake of Ferelden.

As for Arl Eamon's Knights, I'm unsure, perhaps he didn't have time to be recruiting? Since right after his freedom from imprisonment there is the final battle of Redcliffe and then Fort Drakon in which he's killed. They probably also aren't as important of characters to show the recruitment of. As for the companions, I know at least Zevran wasn't interested, dunno about the rest, perhaps there also wasn't really much time for recruitment or since they weren't in any immediate danger of death and were your companions he probably didn't find a need to say something. Celsis (talk) 22:25, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Page Layout Issue

At the bottom of Loghain's page where there is a spoiler note with all of his stats and gifts and such pertaining to his companionship, I think the script or code for "DAOSpoiler| tag starting and ending with "}}" is messing with the templates of his armor section among others since "}}" is used in a lot of the other tables and layouts of the other sections. Not to mention the spoiler tag cuts off at a weird spot in the middle of his dialogue section which needs to be fixed. I've tried to fix it myself for awhile but haven't figured out how to include the spoiler tag along with the proper layout of everything else. Does anyone know the code on how to enclose a template to read only the stuff within it? Otherwise the only way I've gotten it to work was to get rid of the spoiler tag altogether, which fixes the problem of the layout of everything else but obviously does not prevent spoilers. Celsis (talk) 19:14, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Was this always a problem or has it occurred just a week ago or something? The table can be turned into a template, but there's still the issue with the list of items. It doesn't like {{clrl}} for some reasons. There's also another problem with the TOC, which reveals all headings, thus making spoilers... not spoilers. --D. (talk · contr) 23:15, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea how long it's been like that even though I've looked at Loghain's page before, since I suppose I'm usually looking at everything with spoilers so everything shows. Maybe someone just recently added the spoiler tag which messed everything up? Since if you get rid of the spoiler tag there are no problems with the layout of the other templates. I've fiddled around with it a lot in previews, but haven't actually saved anything since I so far haven't been able to fix everything. My knowledge of such things is limited ^^;. Celsis (talk) 23:55, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

The template for spoilers has been changed a week ago, but there technically shouldn't be problems with it. I don't know if it behaved that way with tables and when using other complex templates before the change. The tag was added on September 15. --D. (talk · contr) 00:09, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Are you seeing this problem as well? Also, what was the old template or code for spoiler tags before if they really changed it? If the template was changed, perhaps that's why there are issues? I just wish I knew how to fix it. Celsis (talk) 00:30, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

It now uses {{Spoiler}}. You can see the difference of codes here for SpoilerDAO. The javascript handling the spoilers has also been changed, so it's currently impossible to know if it has always been a problem handling tables and complex templates, unless Tierrie revert the changes just to see. --D. (talk · contr) 00:40, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Just to be on the safe side, I will revert all the changes until I have more time to look at it. -- tierrie talk contr 01:52, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

I just reverted the changes. It appears that the new Wikia changes might have done something with the parser. It screws up the spoiler tags under certain special circumstances and I don't know what yet. -- tierrie talk contr 02:06, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Okay just figured out what's going on. Whenever there's a table inside the spoiler template it uses the | (pipe). The spoiler template translates this to mean "end of first parameter, start of second" which isn't going to fly at all since the whole table is still part of the first parameter. One option is to create the table outside the page (in a subpage) and call it. Another is to use HTML markup to create the table. And the third option is is to recreate the table using the meta templates (description). I'm going with the third since it makes the most sense to me, and that's the way Wikipedia does it. Nothing wrong with the spoilers so I reverted them and am upgrading them now ;) -- tierrie talk contr 04:37, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

There's still the problem with Loghain's Unique Gear's section, which doesn't show up properly. I haven't seen what happened when you reverted the changes, but it currently doesn't like any special character after calling the item pages, which is why {{clr}} or any HTML codes will not work.

On an unrelated note, this indentation is getting ridiculous with the new skin. D: --D. (talk · contr) 04:53, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean the indentation is getting ridiculous? We can banter at least 5 more times before we get to the point where its 1 word per line!

Kidding aside, I can't figure out the pipe issue and I already spent a few hours fixing the spoilers. Fortunately I don't think the spoiler's the cause of the problem. Its putting anything with a | (pipe) inside a template. Whoever added that table must have thought wiki's magic. I want to solve it with the {{(!}} but its getting ridiculous. If you want to take a crack at it you're more than welcome. I also fixed the header. 5 hours is enough work on a wiki for tonight. Cheers! -- tierrie talk contr 08:20, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Tierrie to save the day! :D I've fixed the table, it just needed Template:=. There's only the issue with the TOC though. It could be possible to cheat by make a new class/template using the same styling as <h2> and <h3>. --D. (talk · contr) 15:10, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Time to be rebellious and not put any spacing XD! Am I the only one still seeing issues? The spoilers tag is messing with "Loghain's Unique Gear" table, since if you get rid of that, it fixes his gear table. Also, the cut off point for the spoiler tag is still in the middle of his quotes which is odd. Celsis (talk) 02:17, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think Tierrie will have to update MediaWiki:Common.css, because on the new skin, it works fine (I didn't think of Monaco/Monobook). I'm not sure. Last resort is to make a template for the table rather than a bunch of subpages. For the quotes, I think the person cut off before the link to the dialogue... which would explain why it's a spoiler. I also think it's a weird placement. Perhaps another spoiler tag should be used to hide the link? --D. (talk · contr) 03:44, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

@Celsis, try putting ?action=purge at the end of the URL for Loghain and see if it works for you. The problem you're describing suggests that the wiki is not rendering the html properly from the wiki markup. That's a problem that was just fixed by D-day and may not have propagated yet. What you're describing is the classic symptom of having tables inside of other templates. -- tierrie talk contr 08:09, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

The problem is on Monaco and Monobook (I suspect Celsis is using either skin). I've cleared the cache on all my browsers to test, and the unique gears do not render correctly. The table for his plot skills does show up though. --D. (talk · contr) 16:19, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Figured out the problem. All divs in spoiler tags used to inherit a float left tag. I fixed it in MediaWiki:Wikia.css but did not move it over to MediaWiki:common.css. I moved it over and did some clean up. -- tierrie talk contr 20:33, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yaaay! it's all better now =D. Thanks Tierrie and D-day for working so hard in fixing the problem. I just fixed it so the spoiler tag encompasses his entire quotes section instead of part of it and such, it didn't seem to mess with anything though so that's good. Celsis (talk) 04:53, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that intent of the use of spoilers in this page is to prevent the player from knowing that Loghain is going to be in the party. Most of the quotes are intentionally outside the spoiler tag because they are banal chatter. -- tierrie talk contr 06:56, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

I understand the intent, but it still looked weird, because the "Quotes" heading was hidden. I've added a second spoiler tag like I suggested to hide the link. One of his remarks (when receiving a gift) was moved to his dialogue page since it contains a spoiler. --D. (talk · contr) 14:25, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Change of quote

I suggest that the current one be changed to "There is nothing I would not do for my homeland." In the current one it is unclear whom is Loghain addressing when he says "you." Henio0 (talk) 18:35, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

I am equally okay with both quotes. 20:09, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

I think you make a good point Henio, so I would support the change to the quote you suggest. Loleil ^Talk 23:56, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Come one, come all. Anymore for yes? :) Henio0 (talk) 08:57, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

Rogues category

If I remember correctly, Loghain was a rogue in Dragon Age: The Stolen Throne, was he not? He'd wear light armour, use a bow, and be depicted as such on the cover. Should we add this category to his character? Henio0 (talk) 19:52, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Pronunciation

A bullet was added under Trivia about Loghain's pronunciation. Seems a little pointless, and also isn't particularly correct. If we added a note for every character who pronounces things differently, there'd be a lot of edits to make. I'm in favor of removing it, but I'd like a second opinion. 72.196.14.33 (talk) 18:36, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

The part about Maric doesn't seem noteworthy to me, either. I can only recall Eamon and Loghain being the only ones who ever say Maric's name, and I think that Loghain actually pronounced it two ways throughout the game: Mare-ic and Mah-ric.

Eamon's pronunciation I think could be worth noting, as out of many many characters who say his name, Loghain's the only one to pronounce it differently. Kelcat (talk) 18:53, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, then. I'm not really sure what it should say, though. I do think it's worth mentioning, if you want to keep the Eamon bit, that technically his pronunciation is the correct one (ay-muhn). 72.196.14.33 (talk) 19:04, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Where does it state that that's the correct pronunciation? I haven't heard that before. Kelcat (talk) 20:05, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

It's not mentioned in the game itself, but Eamon is an actual Irish name and has an established pronunciation. If the note about how Loghain pronounces Eamon is going to be kept in, I think it's worth knowing. 72.196.14.33 (talk) 21:05, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Okay so I replayed some Loghain convos, and he ends up pronouncing both Maric and Eamon differently in different conversations. So... I don't really think it's worth keeping the "trivia". Does anyone really strongly think it's worth keeping? 72.196.14.33 (talk) 07:46, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Good work for removing it. 17:18, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Strategy

Wondering if the Strategy section should be split out into a separate page, similar to Cauthrien (strategy)? The page is pretty long even without that section. Kelcat (talk) 03:23, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Added a split candidate to the page. Kelcat (talk) 19:35, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Page was split, so I deleted the split candidate tag. 72.196.14.33 (talk) 10:26, December 1, 2013 (UTC)

Former titles

First of all, wasn't there some kind of consensus reached about using "formerly"? I thought there was. Anyway, Margerard said death doesn't strip him of his titles, but he loses them even if alive. He says this during a party banter with Zevran. henioo ^{(da talk page)} 18:07, August 29, 2014 (UTC)

That's my bad, I never heard that dialogue between the two. Although I suspect he loses his titles only if he becomes a Grey Warden, which would make sense, but that's just a possibility. When he's killed however, it's not declared he's stripped of titles (same as Rendon Howe for example). I'm squeezing some time out of my day right now so I'd be grateful if someone could find the forum where the consensus was reached. -- 12:26, August 30, 2014 (UTC)

You can watch it here. ;) henioo ^{(da talk page)} 06:23, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Discussion here: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Policy_Clarification:_Titles?t=20140801080347

Policy here under title: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age_Wiki:Manual_of_Style/Character_guide

Primarily this came about as an issue of changing when we choose to date titles from, switching from the latest possible point to the earliest to accommodate more players. Those who've progressed through the story know that the titles are lost if he survives (hence the grey warden possibly) or become defunct without being removed if he dies.

- 02:15, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you guys and especially thank you HD3, all I remembered was that it had no place there after the discussion, just couldn't remember the exact content and had no time to look it up. Now it's clear. -- 11:59, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Name of Loghain's wife

There's conflicting information when it comes to the name of Loghain's wife and Anora's mother. Origins calls her Celia, but the World of Thedas calls her Maeve Mac Tir. It's possible that this is a mistake but it's also possible that she changed her name after being lifted to noble status. Regardless I have no idea how to include this in the article or which name to use in the infobox.--Swampshade (talk) 21:34, May 1, 2015 (UTC)

Okay well Gaider just came out and said that it was a mistake, in regards to World of Thedas Vol 2 naming her Maeve so I guess just leave it as Celia, and mention the discrepancy in trivia.--Swampshade (talk) 03:31, May 2, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's the best solution. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 03:35, May 2, 2015 (UTC)

According to the reference https://mobile.twitter.com/R0seOfStone/status/582439296273158144 Loghain's wife was named Maeve and Celia is the name that's incorrect. DanSoulman (talk) 10:55, June 17, 2019 (UTC)

Gaider says there that the second lorebook is wrong though. Its kinda confusing now because it seems some of the people in that conversation deleted their accounts. Originally there was tweets from people pointing out that Loghain says that his wife's name was Celia in DAO's dialog, which then Gaider replied with, "@Turimanco @arielle1120 Aha! So you are correct. Ah well, that means the Second Lorebook is wrong on that point, sadly." --Molon (talk) 18:52, August 5, 2020 (UTC)

Hi! I'm the original asker in that tweet thread, twitter handle formerly arielle1120 currently r0seofstone. Gaider's final tweet is referring to Celia being the correct name and that WoTv2 was incorrect in naming her Maeve. RoseOfStone (talk) 10:54, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

But earlier in the same tweet thread, Gaider says "Loghain's wife was named Maeve, insofar as I'm aware." and "I'm not sure where "Celia" came from.". Without the original tweet by @Turimanco, it's unclear what DG is referring to when he says "Aha! So you are correct." Turimanco might have mistakenly said that "Celia" came from WoT2.--Evamitchelle (talk) 11:43, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

Last name discrepancy

In The Stolen Throne, Loghain's last name is already Mac Tir (he and his father both mention that name). Something else to add to the trivia section, perhaps?--Lyudmilakatzen (talk) 21:29, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Loghain to Rowan after she punches Maric - "Loghain Mac Tir, at your service." - Stolen Throne p96 in the non mass market paperback —Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.173.4 (talk) 02:21, November 12, 2017

I added the discrepancy in the article. 13:35, November 12, 2017 (UTC)

Loghain's wife's name is currently incorrect

I have no idea who changed it to "Celia" but the WoT2 (cited as a reference in the text) calls her "Maeve". I am unable to edit it back, so if someone else with permission could? [Reference cited below, truncations mine]

Reference: WoT2 pp 98-99:

Text:  "After a month of watching their new teyrn [Loghain] live among them as a transient... the people of Gwaren sent a representative to speak with Loghain. Maeve, who came from a long line of cabinetmakers... [after a barney of an argument] ... calmly reminded the Hero of River Dane that no matter what King Maric said, he wouldn't be teyrn of anything... [unless he fixed things up a bit]. ... [Loghain agreed]. The first thing he did was hire Maeve to supervise the work. 

The next thing he did was ask her to marry him.

... Loghain spent much time in Denerim and left ruling Gwaren to his wife. Teyrna Maeve was neither a soldier or a strategist... [etc] However by 9:10 Dragon, Maeve had begun to worry that her husband's absences from Gwaren were taking a toll on their young daughter, Anora..... In 9:28 the king, the queen and the entire Fereldan royal court traveled to the remote [Gwaren] castle for the funeral of Teyrna Maeve."

I recognise that Gaider allegedly said Celia was correct, but that has since been corrected (see above). I would argue that "Word of Gaider" should no longer be considered canon where there is a correction by the team that still work on the DA games, since he is known to have contradicted himself on numerous occasions, and has also said he tends to forget things and is often wrong, anyhow.

He didn't even know who "Celia" was. https://mobile.twitter.com/R0seOfStone/status/582439296273158144

It may be worth mentioning the disparity, instead--either way, using that reference is incorrect.

~ Bethgael (123.208.91.241 (talk) 10:09, December 26, 2019 (UTC))

You are right. Good work for noticing it!

The change has been made. You can also make fixes yourself by creating an account 15:59, January 4, 2020 (UTC)

On the Celia vs Maeve debate. From what I understand, Celia is the name given in dialogue in Origins. Maeve is the one that shows up in World of Thedas 2. Then David Gaider has a series of tweets on the subject: there's one tweet where he says "@arielle1120 Loghain's wife was named Maeve, insofar as I'm aware. I really don't have much more to say about her, though.", one where he says "@arielle1120 @SherylChee @BioMaryKirby I'm not sure where "Celia" came from. Where'd you get that name?" and another where he says: "@Turimanco @arielle1120 Aha! So you are correct. Ah well, that means the Second Lorebook is wrong on that point, sadly." However, this second tweet doesn't include the name, and since I can't see the tweet he's replying to, there's no telling what name he thinks is actually in WoT2. So in my view, using Maeve is the best guess in this situation. I assume by your username that you're the one who started that tweet chain, so is there more info you can shed on this, RoseOfStone? --Evamitchelle (talk) 08:25, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

I am not surprised if the lorebook made another mistake. 12:14, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

Times like this I really hate that the DA franchise doesn't have a loremaster to clear up inconsistancies.  Gaider is really all over the place in those responses, but to me it sounds like he's saying that WOT2 is wrong ('Second Lorebook'). Is there a wiki heiracrchy for vetting contradictory lore - 'last in' takes precedence no matter the source, in-game info trumps contradictory supplemental info (my preference), or something else...? - theskymoves (talk) 18:13, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

"That means the Second Lorebook is wrong" makes it easy to infer in my opinion, without Turamanco's tweet & based on the context of the thread, that the name WoTv2 gives her is what's wrong, which is the name Maeve. Additionally, Turaminco cited the DAO dialogue files for Loghain, when he calls her Celia in companion dialogue. This conversation occurred in the lead up to WoTv2's release, so it's contents were already set. You're correct I was the initiator of that thread, and recall what Turimanco's tweet contained even if it's sadly been deleted. RoseOfStone (talk) 18:41, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, knowing what Turimanco's original tweet was clears it up for me. And I also agree that in-game info should trump ancillary material in case of discrepancy. So Celia it is then. --Evamitchelle (talk) 19:34, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the tweet makes it fairly clear that they consider the name Maeve incorrect. I don't imagine DG carries the name of an NPC that never appeared or was at all important in his head, so he most likely just consulted World of Thedas or something that uses WOT info to say what her name was, but seems to ultimately consider game content as trumping lorebooks. Honestly, the DA books have information that the games entirely disregard, from important bits (like Tevinter Nights implying some rather absurd info about elves in a couple stories) to fairly arbitrary stuff like forgetting what eye/hair color a character is supposed to have. I'd generally lean towards the game being canon unless the writers specifically say that WOT and the like are correcting past info. ssalgnikool (talk) 18:54, September 14, 2020 (UTC)

Given the lack of responses in the last day or so, I am assuming arguments seem to be leaning towards respecting DA:O dialogue and renaming her to Celia in Loghain's, Anora's, and the Mac Tir family's articles. It would be nice to have the actual quote in which he refers to her by name, though, and decide how to address WOT's materials about her. I'd get on editing these pages myself, but won't have time for that in the near future. ssalgnikool (talk) 20:56, September 16, 2020 (UTC)