Talk:Kieran

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Confirmation

I've cleaned this up a bit and left it up since I assume it's true and made in good faith. Can anybody confirm this page to be accurate? I'm live in Britain so I won't get to play the game until the 21st... King Cousland | Talk   20:48, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

I saw a vid. Yeah it would appear to be true. Same vid says wherr the warden is. -ACdeakial

Wonderful. Thank you! King Cousland | Talk   21:00, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Possible fathers

Hi, just to say I'm not sure we should really be adding potential fathers. As well as being a huge spoiler, we don't generally add family additions which can occur through player choice (e.g., we don't put The Warden down as Anora's "Possible husband"). King Cousland | Talk   21:09, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

That's fair enough, I have a lot to learn it seems haha --Knight Runner (talk) 21:13, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry about it! The best way to learn is just by getting stuck in and giving things a go so thanks for your edits - we need as many editors as we can get with the amount of material that'll be coming out! I hope you'll stick around and keep contributing! King Cousland | Talk   21:22, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah.... Adding the possible fathers also complicates things because you would also have to add several possible relatives. (e.g Anora as half-sister for Loghain, Maric and Fiona as grandparents for Alistair, the numerous family members of the potential wardens etc.) It's a good idea just to keep the family members listed in the infobox to Flemeth and co.--Swampshade (talk) 21:53, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe list it under trivia instead? "Depending on player choice, Kieran can also be related to" blah blah blah.--Lurooke Surana (talk) 01:47, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

We think we should dispose of the Elf/Dwarf descent stuff as well? We can keep the categories, but if we're not going to add the fathers, then maybe we shouldn't add the nonhuman blood.--Observer Supreme 20:56, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

I think with this particular character we should add the fathers, as Kieran will only exist if you make the choice in Dragon Age Keep, in BW canon he does not exist. And thus, if he is already in the game, the players know who his father is, ergo it is not a spoiler. I definitely thinki a father takes priority over an aunt, at any rate, and I don't see why Yavana needs to be there if we don't have the fathers. henioo ^{(da talk page)} 21:20, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

I disagree it isn't about spoilers, it's just that his father's identity is conditional, if Kieran exists Yavana is always his aunt, the only effect player choice has on her is whether or not she was murdered. Also as I've said earlier if we list the possible fathers we have to list all of the other possible relatives. All of the grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and half-siblings that come with the fathers have to be listed too. That and if we list Kieran's possible fathers what about other possible character relations? (I.E Alistair being married to Anora or the Warden.)--Swampshade (talk) 04:20, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Hold up, why do we have to list grandparents and other relatives? We certainly don't. Listing the three fathers would be sufficient for the infobox. As for Anora and Alistair, this choice is made within a single playthrough near the end of the game, so spoilers. But Kieran's father is not a spooiler because you make that choice even before starting the game. As i said before, Kieran isn't in the game if we don't want him there. henioo ^{(da talk page)} 07:55, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

We would list the relatives for the same reason we list the fathers? The unwritten rule on the wiki seems to be listing all first and second degree relatives along with first cousins, spouses, and in-laws, so if possible fathers are included why wouldn't the other relatives be included? Also Kieran not existing in certain playthroughs isn't really relative, this article refers to playthroughs where he does exist, and in that case his father can be one of three different people (ten if you count the different origins for the warden.) it makes things too complicated.--Swampshade (talk) 05:39, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Existence

I'm don't have my copy of the game yet but I'm assuming he only exists if you insured Morrigan got pregnant in Orgins.... So shouldn't links to this page in other characters infoboxes be in parentheses?--Swampshade (talk) 21:57, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Non Dark Ritual Playthrough

I know it is possible for the Warden to father a child with Morrigan as part of their relationship and for the child to not possess Urthemiel's soul. Shouldn't we reflect this in the article? I know its checked in the Keep too. Unless the Kieran only exists if the dark ritual was performed and a different kid exists if they were conceived naturally. - 22:14, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

I was thinking of adding it but I've only seen Kieran in a video where he has the Old God soul. I honestly don't know whether he shows up "normal" or not, but I'd hold off until we have definite confirmation. King Cousland | Talk   22:25, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

I'd assume the name remains the same regardless, Kieran doesn't sound special or influenced by the fact that he may have an old gods soul. And he is raised by Morrigan, so its a safe bet his character stays the same. But yeah, I agree, hold off on doing anything until we have confirmation. 23:03, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah the name's nothing special it's probably the same. Kieran is just the bastardized British version of the Irish name Ciarán which means Little Black Child. There many be some significance there considering he has an Archdemon's soul, it could refer to his dark hair or y'know maybe Bioware just liked the name yeah let's go with the last one.--Swampshade (talk) 23:24, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

I'm doing playthrough now where Warden slept with Morrigan without Ritual. Kieran appeared alive and well. Don't know what's next but I'm changing his appearing in Dragon Age:Origins for now. --Konst@ntin (talk) 20:07, November 27, 2014 (UTC)

Appearance conflict

The lead paragraph says Keiran doesn't appear unless the Dark Ritual is done. However, lower down in the article there's a conditional about if the male Warden slept with Morrigan but didn't do the Dark Ritual. So does that mean he shows up even if the Dark Ritual wasn't done? If so, that needs to be fixed. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 20:27, November 27, 2014 (UTC)

Konst@ntin confirmed in his post above, that Kieran does exist even without the Dark Ritual. I tried to rewrite the intro, but then I noticed the "born with the soul of the slain Old God" bit. I have no idea how to do it now, without making too much of a mess. Edit: I've noticed the involvement section for Inquisition too. Guess we'll have to wait until someone comfirms what happens with him later in the game. Saba0th (talk) 20:52, November 27, 2014 (UTC)

Not a lot, he goes into the fade (if he has the OG soul) where Flemeth takes it from him. Kantraah (talk) 21:54, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

But what if he's just a normal kid, without the OG soul? That's the thing that needs to be investigated. Saba0th (talk) 22:04, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Just found out. I've met Flemeth in The Temple of Mythal without Kieran. He was just standing next to Morrigan almost whole game. I will give you information about him if something weird will happen but it seems it is over. --Konst@ntin (talk) 15:45, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

The info about Flemeth taking the Old God Soul is also wrong. She just says "no more dreams", Morrigan says that he has the Old God soul in him still after that event. -- Josephith

new page:kierans comments?

I think we should compile what kieran says into a secrete page with links to comments by other in-game people, for example the elder one says the qunari's blood is filled with decay while kiran says the qunari inquisitor blood is not their people . Kieran will also say an elvan inquisitors blood is vary old something cole also comments on and come up in discussions between solas and sera. Agree, disagree?--FossilLord 19:46, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

for completness http://forum.bioware.com/topic/542389-delving-into-kierans-comments/ --FossilLord 01:37, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

Unnamed topic

If I'm playing a new game, without the carry-over from previous games, does Kieran not exist automatically? And, is there any way to stop Flemeth from taking the essence of the Old God from him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonlover553 (talk • contribs)

By default, Kieran doesn't appear in the game. The part about Flemeth taking the Old God Soul back from Kieran is speculation, so I've reworded it. It's ambiguous as to what exactly happened in that scene. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 00:09, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

Speculation?

The article states Flemeth has been visiting Kieran in his dreams. Where is this said in-game? I was under the impression Kieran's comment about dreams referred to the soul of Urthemiel. Perhaps I missed it but visits from Flemeth sounds like speculation to me and should be removed.--Wsowen02 (talk) 22:03, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

It's been awhile so I don't remember the conversation exactly, but it's when you go looking for Kieran in the Fade and meet Flemeth. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 22:22, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

The only mention of dreams is at the end after Flemeth extracts Urthemiel. Kieran says, "No more dreams?" and Flemeth replies, "No more dreams". Seems far too ambiguous at this point for us to make a call either way.--Wsowen02 (talk) 19:43, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

I may have misinterpreted it then, because I could have sworn Kieran said something about how Flemeth had been visiting him in dreams, but I may be wrong. My goal had been to reword it to remove the "speculation" about Flemeth taking the soul of the Old God from Kieran, because I had yet to do a playthrough where the Inquisitor specifically asks "so Kieran had the soul of an Old God?" and Morrigan says yes. So yeah, the article does need some reworking to accurately depict what happened in that scene, including how Flemeth took the soul of Dumat. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 05:21, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

A later answer. This dreams perhaps are the Urthemiel's memories.--Virrac (talk) 09:59, February 5, 2016 (UTC)

Whoah, the soul of Dumat? Say whaaaat? henioo ^{(da talk page)} 06:08, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Urthemiel. Too many gods to keep track of --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 06:18, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

I can confirm that Wsowen02 wrote. I have edited the article accordingly. Asherinka (talk) 16:22, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Father

About putting the father in the infobox due to massive spoilers: What about putting "Conditional father"? Would that look weird? --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 03:40, February 5, 2016 (UTC)

For me it's not the spoiler that is the issue. It's that you'd have to put three possible fathers down, that's quite chunky and awkard-looking with a name and (conditional) in brackets. I think it's best to leave fatherless. henioo ^{(da talk page)} 09:09, February 5, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox

Hey there, bit of a lurker but there's a user adding Kieran to literally anyone related to any of the potential Warden's, now this just seems excessive because of how many variables there are regarding Kieran. Now I'm not an admin nor do I have an account so I don't want to get in an edit war, could a moderator make a verdict? 2A00:23C5:7316:B100:81A7:5441:DB69:A85D (talk) 23:03, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

I think we had that discussion before and agreed that Kieran shouldn't be added to the infoboxes of all his potential family members but I can't remember where. In any case, given that he can have like 9 different fathers, I also think we shouldn't add him to all his potential relatives' pages. The fact that he's potentially Rica Brosca's half nephew is really not relevant. Evamitchelle (talk) 23:12, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough, like I said as a lurker to me it just seemed a bit excessive personally, would it be wise to get someone to revert or wait for an admin to confirm? 2A00:23C5:7316:B100:81A7:5441:DB69:A85D (talk) 23:25, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

I'm the one who added it. I felt that it was a void of information, not listing his potential fathers, and being that Keiran is such an important character, if you create him, I felt it was silly not to list his family members. Even if he has 9 potential fathers, they all can canonically meet him. The Wardens can live with him and Morrigan before the events of Inquisition and Alistair and Loghain can meet him during the game. Alistair meeting Keiran is actually quite emotional, which is why I think it's important. The other family members are a bit excessive, but I still think we should at least list the potential fathers. Raimundo91 (talk) 23:52, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

Well the potential fathers are already listed in the main body of the article, but I'm opposed to having them in the infobox as well since it can be boiled down to 3 people. Everyone else is completely superfluous in my opinion. Evamitchelle (talk) 08:33, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Nine people, actually. Every Warden is canonically in the story, even if you pick a different warden. If you choose a City Elf, Daylen Amell is still Hawke's cousin, etc... I just thought it seemed like voided information not to list each potential father and felt as though a wikia about this game should house all info. Raimundo91 (talk) 09:01, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

Even though the other origins still exist when not chosen, only the Warden can father Kieran. Kieran's potential fathers are Alistair, Loghain, and the Warden (regardless of origin). And all this info is listed on the wiki, just not in the infobox. Evamitchelle (talk) 10:36, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

This is getting out of hand. We don't need to list Kieran in his Greatgreatgreat grandfather's page. This is ridiculous. henioo ^{(da talk page)} 10:19, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and removed parts you missed, I'm not too sure on how big of the aspect of this is but I've removed Kieran from people like Bryce's until a consensus can be reached. To me it's just too excessive and frankly I think it's best to be kept before how it was and all pertinent information be kept in the overall storyline aspects of the pages, there's too many variables. But I'm not sure how big of a strength my vote has. 2A00:23C5:7316:B100:D50F:8549:4D53:18B4 (talk) 11:49, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

It might be better to put his potential families in the Categories box or list his possible place on the families' family trees. DAWUSS (talk) 17:20, July 9, 2018 (UTC)

I concur with Evamitchelle's reasoning. It has too much variation and to much data for an infobox. DaBarkspawn (talk) 02:40, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

Hello, im still new in this wiki but i have experience in another wiki. i also opposed to put all possible families in the infobox, and i agree with Evamitchelle's reason. the infobox supposed provide quick information summary about the page, if you break it 1 by 1 and write into the infobox, it will make infobox too crowdy and also not tidy. Wiryawan310 (talk) 03:18, July 10, 2018 (UTC)

I don't really edit a crazy amount as life's a pain in the ass, but frankly I'm on on the side of Evamitchelle, the main problem is that there's just an excessive amount of variation and even then where we do we stop at that? It's perfectly possible to marry Alistair, have Leliana as a mistress, marry Sebastian and marry several companions in Inquisition, do we list that? There's way too many variations to list and quite frankly it'd be best to just detail said information in the pages where it's relevant. Daimyo Heligo ^{The Forgotten Sinner} 10:11, July 10, 2018 (UTC)