Talk: Justinia V

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Renaming

Should we rename the page to Justina V in order to update to what her present name is, or keep it as Dorothea, the name she's best known by? She seems to have a role in Dawn of the Seeker, so I'm in favour of renaming, at least when the anime comes out. King Cousland | Talk 15:54, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Vast majority of wikis have a standing policy that all biographies be titled with the most recent/up-to-date name of the individual. Can't comment on this wiki's specific policies, but unless there is an existing different policy, I'd say that the name change is called for --forgottenlord (talk) 21:35, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

We don't have any policy regarding this, but as King Cousland said, common names are just as good as the recent ones (she is best known as Dorothea due to the Leliana's Song DLC. We can't predict what her role in Darn of the Seeker will be, but I support the name change nonetheless. The article needs to be rewritten though. --D. (talk · contr) 15:57, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Appearance in DA:O?

If Dorothea was the Revered Mother of the Lothering chantry from at least 9:28 (Leliana's Song) to 9:34 (appointment as new Divine), and if each chantry can only have one Revered Mother (Codex on Chantry Hierarchy) ... wouldn't this make Dorothea the unnamed Revered Mother we get to see 9:30 in DA:O? Granted, the skin isn't as dark and it is a different voice actor - yet how could there be two Revered Mothers for the same chantry? -- Lynata 23:30, Nov 25th 2011 (GMT)

That has bothered me, too, and I think that the two women are not the same person. If you listen closely to Dorothea's dialogue in LS, she says that although she is indeed a Revered Mother, her chantry is not in Lothering but somewhere in Orlais, where she probably returns to as soon as Leliana retrieves the documents from Majorlaine. We never actually see the Revered Mother of Lothering in Leliana's Song, perhaps because she was absent during Leliana's stay there. It's my personal theory that Dorothea was a sort of "Sister Nightingale" for Beatrix III all along, which would explain why she handled such important documents and got named her successor, but that's just speculation on my part. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 09:49, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

To add to that the fact that Bioware has messed a lot with the dates, therefore this may be the cause of this confusion. 10:32, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Appearance in Dawn of the Seeker

New comments from David Gaider now point to the Divine in Dawn of the Seeker actually being Beatrix III not Justinia V. I added a talk point about it on the Dragon Age: Dawn of the Seeker talk page, with links to the various sources. In short, the movie apparently took place in 9:22 and he says it's Beatrix. This means several changes would need to be made, presumably removing her from the DotS character appearance category?? I'm not so certain how to do that. --R2sMuse (talk) 02:45, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Removed DotS appearance info from her page, but it can be rolled back if there's disagreement. Couldn't figure out how to change her categories. --R2sMuse (talk) 02:58, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Took care of it among other references to her in other DotS pages. Not sure if I got all of it though. Tommyspa (talk) 03:17, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! BTW, where do you change the categories? I could click on "Add categories" but there didn't seem to be a delete function...? Or is that an admin-level thing? Anyhoo, thanks! --R2sMuse (talk) 12:51, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

I think the categories can only be edited directly when using the Monobook skin. Go to your preferences and change the skin from Wikia to Monobook if you want to try it out. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 20:16, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Oh cool! Thanks so much!--R2sMuse (talk) 20:58, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know you can edit categories in Oasis too. When you go into edit the page the categories should be located in a box to the right of page. If you can't see them, then you might have collapsed that section. If that's the case, look for a little arrow and click on that. Nice sleuthing on the information you uncovered too! Loleil ^Talk 00:22, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see the categories, now! Thanks! --R2sMuse (talk) 01:38, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome . Loleil ^Talk 01:46, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

This is just ridiculous. Didn't the makers of the movie said in an interview that it was Justinia? The guy who spams news posted it a while back. They themselves don't know what's going on. Bah! Henio0 (talk) 21:59, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

My suspicion is that it was a continuity error caught late. The Funimation site still has a blog page "introducing" Justinia V. The movie itself, however, seems to make a special point of calling her "Divine" in the credits, and rewatching the Divine part of the "Making of" vid, the BW devs don't name her. Mike Laidlaw does, however, say something like 'these characters are canon; and you may be seeing her [the Divine] again' -- which of course is hard when Beatrix died in 9:34. :shrug: Dunno. I haven't watched the whole thing over again to see if anyone calls her by name in the dialogue. --R2sMuse (talk) 23:21, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Soft redirect

While I have argued that revealing that Mother Dorothea becomes the Divine is not a spoiler of any playable plot, I think we should consider making a "soft redirect" from Revered Mother Dorothea, since we do mark spoilers on this wiki. A soft redirect is essentially a page that provides the basic info on her role in LS then links towards this article for more information (see, for example, the Emperor Emhyr var Emreis' article on The Witcher Wiki--it's spoiler-free unless you click on the link). By extension, we can make a similar soft redirect for Sister Nightingale. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 07:07, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Inqusition spoilers

Judging by this article, Justinia V and Fiona agree to meet at the Ruined Temple, when the Breach happens right over it and kills them both along with everyone else except the Inquisiton. None of them is named directly, however, so we can't really add it yet; but if it is true, that's pretty hardcore. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 18:17, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Chronology

I'm wondering, what is this wiki's policy about chronology in the Involvement section? Asunder was released before Masked Empire, but Justinia's part in Masked Empire occurs before the beginning of Asunder. Which takes precedence? Publication date or chronology? I think chronology is more logical and less confusing to read, but I don't know if there's a policy about this. Ravenfirelight (talk) 16:47, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

AFAIK this is the first case of the publication order deviating from the internal chronology, so there are no official policies for such cases yet. In this specific case (without automatically making it a rule), I would argue that since Asunder and TME technically take place simultaneously, the sections should be ordered by source publication date, with a note explaining the matter of internal chronology. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 22:32, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

In general, that makes sense, but in this case all of Justinia's involvement in TME is in the portion prior to Celene's departure from Val Royeaux. And it's only after she departs that the ball Asunder opens with takes place. For Justinia, there isn't an overlap. So we're left reading about the ball and then the events of Asunder only then to read about what Justinia was doing beforehand Ravenfirelight (talk) 23:15, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. However, I am not sure we would cause more good than harm if we swap the sections in this particular article while every other article on the wiki has them sorted by publication date. Granted, there aren't many articles that have both Asunder and TME sections, but even so, it may cause confusion regarding the order in which the books should be read. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 06:35, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

Well, if it matters at all, having read both, it really doesn't matter which you read first as their plots don't have much to do with one another Ravenfirelight (talk) 12:45, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

I think chronologically is better. We do it this way with Dawn of the Seeker, and we put it as before Origins. We've also put Redemption before Mark of the Assassin. Henio0 (talk) 08:29, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

The Asunder/TME case is not as clear cut, since both DotS and Redemption take place fully before the respective other installment, while events in TME overtake Asunder at some point. I am not wholly against chronological order, I am just uneasy with having the same book listed first in some articles and potentially second in others. That said, I am not even sure what articles that would be, since the only overlapping characters seem to be Justinia and Lelian. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 12:26, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

Well, in both those character's cases, there isn't a temporal overlap to their roles in each respective book. Its a little more complicated with Celene's article, which has an Asunder section (Though I'm not sure it should, as it only describes the nobility's response to her absence and she is not actually involved) Ravenfirelight (talk) 12:43, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

In this particular case I'd prefer chronology. Not sure about general policy though. Asherinka (talk) 15:23, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

On a second thought, we can't merge two captions ("Dragon Age: Asunder and The Masked Empire") and arrange the events chronologically under different spoiler tags, can we?

Something like Asunder tag ("Shortly after her installment as Divine, Justinia discreetly began") - tME tag ("Justinia sends Leliana..") - Asunder tag (description of the ball and then "Justinia authorized Wynne to rescue..."). Asherinka (talk) 15:37, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

My only problem with that proposal would be that the section title would be way too long. I've checked the MOS, and, in its current form, it technically only prescribes making individual sections for games. I know that it's playing with the rules, but we can instead name the section "Novels" (Doylist) or "Before the Breach" (Watsonian) and go through with your proposal with three spoiler tags... --Koveras Alvane (talk) 16:18, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

Image of the woman in the Breach

I'm unsure as to whether we should have this image on Justinia's article. It's revealed through dialogue that the figure who helped the Inquisitor wasn't actually Justinia, it was a benevolent spirit who took on her form. So it seems like technically this isn't really an image of Justinia. But it does look like her, so.... I don't know. --♫ Kelcat ^Talk 00:33, December 14, 2014 (UTC)

The woman in the Breach was Justinia, just seconds before her death saving the Inquisitor. The woman in the fade sequence after Adamant was not Justinia, but a spirit taking on her form, but there's no picture of her in the article though.--Swampshade (talk) 04:12, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, I thought that Justinia was already dead at that point and that it was the spirit that helped save the Inquisitor during the Breach opening. I may have interpreted it incorrectly. ♫ Kelcat ^Talk 04:18, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

The way I interpreted it, both the Inquisitor and Justinia were pulled into the Fate, but when they were about to escape back into the material world through the Breach, Justinia stayed back to keep the spider demons off the Inquisitor. Hence, she was the one people saw. The whole glowy thing must have been just an effect of the Fade, I guess. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 09:39, December 15, 2014 (UTC)