|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the In Your Heart Shall Burn article.|
Save the townspeople Edit
- I've been able to save Flissa, and one of the two people together--Adan and whatshername. I've never been able to save both of them, though, by the time I'd helped one, the other one burned up. When I took a direct route straight from Flissa, they both died before I got there. But if I looped around the road and came in from the side, I was able to rescue one. I reloaded to see if you had to save them in a certain order, but it didn't seem to matter. Whichever I saved first, the other died. Even tried to see if I could have two party members simultaneously rescue one person each, but no joy. --♫ Kelcat Talk 17:24, December 18, 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if this depends on difficulty, but I have never had a problem saving everyone. I had to figure out how to find Seggrit though, but anyhow, as soon as I save Flissa I usually run straight for those two at the apothecary and I have plenty of time to save them. I play on casual... maybe that has to do something with it? -- 18:26, December 18, 2014 (UTC)
- Seggrit needs to be saved as well, I haven't seen him once. The order I have been doing and failing at is Lysette, Flissa, Adan, researcheer, & Threnn. --Revan's Exile (talk) 23:33, December 18, 2014 (UTC)
- Lysette? I've never seen her in need of saving and she was always alive at Skyhold. Seggrit is in a burning building to the left of his merchant stand, you pass in front of it when you wake up at Haven in the beginning. You have to climb up on the ladder, go down the "catwalk" and jump into the house through the roof, save him, then destroy the boxes that blocked your way in. Took me my third playthrough to think about it where he may be.-- 06:32, December 19, 2014 (UTC)
I've been thinking up some strategies (which don't require specific builds) for getting through the quest on Nightmare. Given the sheer number of enemies, limited Supply Caches, the added variable of saving every villager, and the difference in tactics you have to take depending on which quest you completed, I feel this page warrants something in-depth. However, the walkthrough layout doesn't really allow for it without constant interjections and disruptions to the flow of the page. Should I create a Strategy section at the bottom, or create a "In Your Heart Shall Burn (strategy)" page? RShepard227 (talk) 16:22, January 5, 2015 (UTC)
- Heh, there's 4-5 conveniently placed caches. I don't see how that's limited. Unless there are fewer caches on Nightmare? Anyway, on Nightmare the strategy is "screw the villagers and head straight to the Chantry." :D Seriously though, I don't see the point of what you're recommending. Boss battles are one thing, but for an entire quest? They already know what to expect, let the players figure it out. Can't expect to hold their hand through everything.--TubbyM0ph0 (talk) 21:40, January 5, 2015 (UTC)
- Heh, Nightmare might as well be a whole other game. That's where the cracks in the design show, and like The Attack at Nightfall in Origins and pretty much the entirety of DA2, Dragon Age combat isn't designed around protracted battles with 80-90 enemies at the highest difficulty. It's true that you fight hundreds of darkspawn in the Battle of Denerim, but by then you're one-shotting all of them no matter how badly you screwed up your build (plus you have an army and four Hulks if you opt for that). We've done strategies on large-scale battles before without any complaints, even for the Gangs battles in DA2, but again, that's pretty much all DA2 was.
- Back to this campaign, I've been through it on both sides, and those five boxes are not enough in either case. There aren't fewer caches, but you burn through them much quicker. Interesting strategy regarding the villagers, but some people like to max out their rewards, which is entirely possible and thus information worth sharing. It only gets more difficult as you level up, since enemies level with the Inquisitor and get about 400-600 extra hp, which means they deal more damage over their lifespans and burn through more healing pots. Lastly, Nightmare strategies for the main questline are more justified in this game due to the achievement, which some people will hunt and others remain at liberty to ignore.
- And the "hand-holding" is kinda my thing around here. :P Given a choice between laughing at someone's death montage and taking five minutes to save them a broken controller, I pick the latter. The admins generally support what I do, except when I type "Cor 'The Bastard' Blimey lives up to his name." I'll stick with adding some general Tips at the bottom, above the Trivia section for now, and let the admins decide if it should stay or go. RShepard227 (talk) 00:21, January 6, 2015 (UTC)
- I see no issue with having some strategies for nightmare difficulty; I'm sure it could be of use to some people, and we do have strategy articles for difficult fights and such. Use your judgment, and if you think it's long enough to warrant a specific strategy page, go for it, or if it's just a few pointers you could add it at the end of this article rather than integrate it in the walkthrough section. --♫ Kelcat Talk 02:00, January 6, 2015 (UTC)
- It's been a couple of weeks, and I didn't see that this had been done yet. I could have used some tips, and avoided significant frustration, so I put some of the things that helped me past the final trebuchet fights in that section of the page. I'd have liked to have made it a spoiler, as it is a little long, but I'm no wiki-guru; it may not be neccessary in any case. --Anonymous 19:44, January 27, 2015 (UTC)
- I apologize, I've been preoccupied, and I appreciate the effort you put forth. Given the amount of information I've produced in my sandbox (not on this wiki) and what you've done, I think it's better to go with a strategy page, otherwise the main page will become too convoluted. If the admins have no objections, I'll leave your stuff up before removing it and rolling it into a separate page. RShepard227 (talk) 01:25, February 3, 2015 (UTC)
- No problem, I just hope it helps someone in the meantime. I knew it was just a first pass at it. And also so long as there's a link or some hint as to where to go for advice once you get your page up, so people can find it. --Anonymous 06:05, February 4, 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry to jump into an old conversation, but I had some tips that made my nightmare playthrough of this quest relatively straightfoward, so I added them in. It ended up being a fair chunk of info so I moved it to a new section - if you're still thinking about doing a separate page, feel free to add/amend/discard as needed. :) Magpieme (talk) 21:05, September 17, 2015 (UTC)
Aiming the Trebuchet Edit
The description implies that you have to defeat the final group before you can complete the aiming of the trebuchet and trigger the cutscene. However, this is not the case -- once the elite appears (Fiona or Denam), the wheel will unlock and you can complete the aiming without having to actually kill them. --Dfscott (talk) 05:21, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
- Which platform were you on? I just tried this on PS4 and couldn't touch the wheel. Denam promptly caved my skull in. :P RShepard227 (talk) 17:07, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
Belief / Non-belief Edit
It appears, you can't 'establish non-belief' during this quest. I have never actually confirmed 'belief' before this point - mostly denied and only chose 'doubt' / 'neutral' options a couple of times - and yet, no matter which options I pick in this sequence ("I've lost faith" -> "Not more 'chosen' nonsense" -> "But I'm not your chosen one"), I only get the 'Believer' options in the final decision, where you choose how you lead.
- Without thorough testing, I can confirm that having previously chosen the "I'm not the Herald" (in the war room) and "I don't believe in the Maker" (conversation with Cassandra) options, during this quest I selected "I believe, but is that enough?" with Mother Giselle and "My faith is rewarded" at Skyhold and did then have the "faithful" option "I will be a servant of faith" when being named Inquisitor. Establishing non-belief, as discussed in the comment above, seems to be another matter -- Ness csr (talk) 12:46, January 30, 2015 (UTC)
- I sat through the whole scene six times testing every dialogue option. "I believe, but is that enough?" was the only one that gave me the faith dialogues going into Skyhold, even when I later said "not more chosen nonsense." and I played neutral on the matter while still badmouthing the Chantry (wherever it got Leliana "approval" for that one job opening). On that note, my theory is that there's a secret points system like with the election, and that having X amount establishes belief/non-belief with those dialogues with Giselle having a great deal of sway. RShepard227 (talk) 01:30, February 3, 2015 (UTC)
- I believe it may come down to the very first cutscene conversation you have with Cassandra, when she's whacking on a training dummy and then asks if you believe in the Maker. The only times I've been unable to establish non-belief later on is when I've told her that my character does believe. I'm in the early stages of another playthrough at the moment, so I'll try not talking to Cassandra until right before In Your Heart Shall Burn (assuming holding off doesn't prevent the cutscene from playing) to see if it has any impact. Magpieme (talk) 15:49, September 16, 2015 (UTC)
- I've now played through this quest so often that I'm sick of it, with the only difference being whether my character told Cassandra that she believed in the Maker, didn't believe, or didn't know. She denied believing in the Maker or being chosen in all other conversations. Telling Cassandra you believe in the Maker locked her in as faithful and none of the options in the Mother Giselle convo changed that; saying she didn't know or that she didn't believe put her as non-faithful UNLESS she picked the "I want to believe, but is that enough?" option, when she then got the faithful options. So yes, it looks like that conversation with Cassandra has a huge impact. It may be worth checking whether conversations with other compansions (e.g. Vivienne) have the same effect. Magpieme (talk) 20:52, September 17, 2015 (UTC)
I also tried every option to establish non-believe, but only got the "believer" options in Cassandra's dialogue (which annoyed me since i wanted to take "I'll do it because it's right.", but never could. I did play favors before hand (choosing dialogues that go against chantry with Dorian, or are against faith with Sera, but also saying i may believe that i am chosen with Cassandra and Vivienne), so yeah there has to be a hidden points system that determines if you are a believer or not, no matter what you later say. All these secret point systems that never give you any indication where you stand are extremely frustrating, IMHO. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:35, March 29, 2015 (UTC)
progress-sensitive missions Edit
- The idea, at least my impression reading these comments, is to keep this page focused strictly on the details of this particular mission, and leave things like combat strategy (which requires a pretty thorough analysis) and cut-off details like that to other pages. With that in mind, we could make do with a page to indicate which quests and War table operations become unavailable after this point. Let me summon Kelcat. *looks in mirror "Kelcat, Kelcat, Kelcat!" Is there any way to incorporate this warning on the existing quest page, so we don't have to create another? We already have the "Cannot be completed after moving to Skyhold" warning on the War table page. RShepard227 (talk) 17:05, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
- You rang? For the operations, there's already a warning at the beginning of the Walkthrough with a link to War table. For the quests, all of the individual quests have (or should have) a note about that. I suppose we could add a note to this article the list of quests that can't be completed. Then at the top put something about this being a "point of no return" quest and to see Notes for a list of quests that should be completed before starting it. --♫ Kelcat Talk 22:14, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
Currently, there's no mention of approval/disapproval for Qunari inquisitors who say: A qunari will stand for us all. I tested it, and got: Iron Bull Approves, Sera Approves.
- Added -- thank you! --Keladin Storm 23:46, March 9, 2015 (UTC)
Missing options Edit
- Just want to report that as a qunari mage non-believer, the "I'll do it because it is right." option was not available doing the ceremony. 18px OLIOSTER (talk) 02:34, March 12, 2015 (UTC)
- After some experimenting, selecting "No more of this chosen nonsense" during the lead up with Cassandra seems to give the "I'll do it because it is right." and the "I fight for order, not faith." choices precedence over others.
Possible Glitches Edit
I have a possible glitch (verification needed on across all versions) with this mission on PS4, when I'm fighting Knight-Commander at the end. Now When I go up the mountain side, I've managed to get him stuck on a certain ridge near the top of the mountain. The item, after I've defeated him, fell through into the mountain, where he was standing, stuck. I've managed to fall through the mountainside with Solas as well.
Closing the breach party cutscene Edit
Closing the breach First sentence in this action's wiki entry... "A scene of the Herald, along with the chosen allied group, closing the Breach will play."
Except that's not correct. My party was Cassandra, Vivienne, and Varric. But saw a scene which had Solas and Cassandra. shrug
EDIT - Ahh okay I think I realized my error; instead of allied group maybe it should say "allied force (Templars or Mages)".
- Good idea. Edited! Just for future reference, would you mind signing your posts by using four tildes (~ ~ ~ ~, without spaces)? It makes it easier to send messages to the right place. :) Magpieme (talk) 21:07, September 17, 2015 (UTC)
Conditions for Speech options?Edit
As a non-believer I got options of "I will lead them to vengeance." + "I fight for order, not faith.", so the "I will lead them to vengeance." option must not be a faithful only option. I put "I will lead them to vengeance." and "I'll do it because it's right." under the heading Unknown conditions in the meantime, if someone knows the precise condition(s), please add them.
Have people been harsh critics on the chantry and gotten this option? Maybe it's connected to certain kinds of censure while talking to Mother Giselle or others.
Cassandra disapproval on return? Edit
Hi, I'm wondering if anyone managed to get disapproval from Cassandra when they found the Inquisition after receiving the Mark ability? I just got disapproval from her and I'm not really sure why... - Loz.neo (talk) 02:23, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
- Some of the dialogue options you can choose while being made Inquisitor lead to disapproval from Cassandra. Do you remember which one you took? --Evamitchelle (talk) 03:10, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
- Ah, it's actually before that. Right when you collapse and they're all like "Thank the Maker", etc etc. I instantly got disapproval from Cassandra which seems unusual since I didn't say anything. - Loz.neo (talk) 03:57, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
"I will lead them to vengeance." Edit
This option is no longer universal in the most recent PC game version (from Origins), but I'm not sure what causes it to appear. Based on the comments above, assuming it doesn't rely on the Inquisitor's religious beliefs then the only difference between the dialogue options I chose were "You trust this to a mage?"->"I will lead them to vengeance." and "I'm honored."->"I will do it because it's right." The only other dialogue differences before that was the I don't know if there's a Maker->"We need more than faith." (from mother Giselle dialogue, for the righteous inquisitor) and "I don't know if there's a Maker->"I believe, but it didn't help." for the vengeful inquisitor. Everything before that was the same. Note that this dialogue option also REDUCES Vivienne's Divine Election Score by 5 points. I'm sure a lot of people interested in making Leliana Divine while conscripting the mages will find this little tidbit valuable. Scythesong (talk) 11:48, January 27, 2017 (UTC)
Playstyle specific tips Edit
I would suggest removing:
"Focus on crafting weapons that give "% chance to heal on kill" (by using cotton or samite in a cloth offense slot in a weapon schematic) and armour that gives a healing bonus (by using cotton in a cloth defense slot in an armour schematic). This gives a character a chance to heal some or all of the damage they've received every time they defeat an enemy, which means you can save potions for when you really need them. If you're still having trouble, consider using drakestone or summer stone in a metal defense slot to boost a character's maximum health."
entirely as what sort of crafting optimizations one does is dependent on all sorts of factors, including classes of party members and style of play (maybe optimize attack over defense, melee/ranged defense instead of healing, etc.). DaBarkspawn (talk) 04:31, February 10, 2017 (UTC)
Approval for Evaquate Haven Edit
So, yes, Varric greatly approved – per on-screen message, and with 20 additional points, checked with DAISaveGameEditor.
But not so Vivienne. (And wouldn't really match her character, I think.) There was no message, and no change via DAISaveGameEditor. Is this an error, here, or are there some additional conditions for her approval, like race/gender/class/behavior of the Inquisitor, or a certain approval threshold? I already had her on 77, friendly. (I believe, changes here have also to be applied to the slight approval for rescueing not all townspeople …) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 14:39, June 19, 2017 (UTC)
Declares the Inquisition for ... Edit
Does this make any difference down the road? Do people react differently to the Inquisition depending on what it stands for? --2003:C4:DBD4:9E9B:B92A:48AA:A86D:1C60 (talk) 12:18, October 7, 2017 (UTC)