|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Howe family article.|
What do those little crosses next to the names in the infobox stand for? Usually when I see that on other sites (or documents) it's indicative of a footnote, but I don't see any footnotes. Kelcat (talk) 20:43, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
Noble Alamarri Howes?Edit
I think I found a mistake in lore. In some codex entries (namely about Cousland family and Highever) there is explained that Howes were ruling the bannorn of Amaranthine, which also included Highever. But the Howe known for supporting Calenhad, quite a number of years later, is said to be merely a freeholder. Is that correct, or I am worng here? Henio0 (talk) 07:54, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
- As far as I remember the Howes ruled Amaranthine and Highever but didn't support Maric during the rebellion against the Orlesians first. The Couslands supported Maric from the beginning and were granted Highever after the end of the rebellion. That is the reason why Rendon Howe later betrayed the Couslands.--Kendira (talk) 08:02, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, yes, that's modern Howes. I'm talking pre-Ferelden, before king Calenhad, four hundred years earlier. Henio0 (talk) 08:20, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
- By then the Couslands already freed themselves from under Bann Howe's influence, became their own bannorn, and then a teyrnir. So they were nobles as Alamarri, then freeholders when Calenhad united Ferelden, and then banns again during Dragon Age. Either Elias was not a noble, or there is a piece of Howe history we don't know how they lost nobility and regained it. Maybe Calenhad remade them banns again for the support. Henio0 (talk) 08:24, October 14, 2013 (UTC)
Hmm, okay, I can't seem to find the one about Howe family being the banns of Amaranthine when Couslands took over from Conobar over Highever. I may have read that somewhere else, now that I think about it. But something is still fishy, some piece is missing. Howes must have been pretty known before Highever became a bannorn, to be mentioned in the codex entry: Highever ("in the days before Amaranthine became an arling itself. The outpost of Highever was originally held by the Elstan family, cousins of the Howes.") But we actually have no confirmation of what were the Howes doing before Calenhad. I think I added in my mind the part of them always being in charge of bannorn (later arling) of Amaranthine. But I guess I was wrong, because it sounds like some random Alamarri bann ruled Amaranthine, and Howes were just wealthy land owners, not banns.
However, Tarleton Howe, Rendon's father, was already an Arl, and Amaranthine was an arling - he sided with Orlesians. When Tarleton died, his brother (and Rendon's uncle) Byron Howe became the Arl, and joined Maric. Rendon took over when he died.
We are missing information on how Howes became nobles. It could be Calenhad made them nobility, but it's also speculation.
Thomas Howe Edit
The article currently states that Thomas died during the Blight, but in Awakening Samuel states that Thomas "died during the war". Given the dates, he had to have been referring to the Civil War. The only time I can think of during the Civil War where Rendon engaged his army was during the attack on Highever, but even that wasn't technically part of the Civil War since it occurred before Loghain betrayed Cailan at Ostagar. Rendon clearly sided with Loghain during the war, but were there ever any other mentions of Amaranthine specifically engaging in the war? I don't see anything on Fereldan Civil War (9:30 Dragon) stating one way or another. --♫ Kelcat Talk 03:42, October 27, 2014 (UTC)
I don't recall any other incidents mentioned but Howe troops were likely deployed to other fronts that weren't mentioned. We know there were more than a few battles during the civil war we aren't privy to narrative wise. Perhaps we could rephrase the sentence in the article? - 04:06, October 27, 2014 (UTC)
- That's the thing, I'm not sure how exactly to phrase it without getting into speculation territory. I'd hate to put Civil War definitively if there's a possibility that the phrase could be interpreted differently, but just putting "the war" doesn't seem enough. --♫ Kelcat Talk 04:21, October 27, 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps just list the year?
- Yeah but "during the events of the Fifth Blight" sort of suggests that thomas' death was a result of events of the fifth blight directly rather than the civil war. That is why I suggested listing the year instead because that covers all situations without stating a direct cause of death which we can't be certain of.