|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the First Enchanter article.|
Dragon Age Legends Edit
The First Enchanter of the Jainen Circle tower is Jendrik, although I can't provide a screenshot to prove it (it's mentioned only two of three times I think and there is no quest log in Legends). Because the canon status of Dragon Age Legends is highly debatable, I didn't add him to the list. If I rememeber correctly he even died at the end of the quest. --ShardofTruth (talk) 18:20, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
- Mm, I recall reading somewhere that the Legends are considered canon. Not sure that he is notable enough to warrant being mentioned though. Asherinka (talk) 18:23, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
- Everything by BioWare is canon; we can't debate if it is or not, regardless if it contradicts itself (BioWare does it anwyay). I think the only thing we're unsure of is the Machinima series. If we mention first enchanters by passing (such as Rivella, or codex entries), then he should be added as well. It's not a list of notable first enchanters. --D. (talk · contr) 18:28, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
First Enchanter Arlen of Ferelden circle deadEdit
As recommended and to avoid getting banned I'm posting this. I posted Arlen as dead in the First Enchanter page because he obviously is. Firstly it is clearly listed that First Enchanters retain their position for LIFE. Secondly the letter by Arlen is written 20 years before DAO, how could Irving be First Enchanter if he's still alive? Think I've made my case clear. Xsari (talk) 13:35, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
- Enchanter Illana states that First Enchanters are able to step down and retire. It is possible that Arlen is dead or he's just really old and retired. We don't know.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 12:42, June 22, 2014 (UTC))
- Personal attacks are unnecessary Xsari, particularly where it you who is "ignorant". Wynne stated quite clearly in Origins: "Irving asked me to take over as First Enchanter". I also want to clarify that your case was not enough, even without Sports' contribution. We can't list someone as dead unless they are identified as dead, presumption is NOT enough. Alexsau1991 (talk page) 16:40, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
More information about First Enchanters' powers, with sources? Edit
It could be beneficial to make the section about powers more robust by providing a bit more detail and some supporting sources. I'm not sure to what extent the average player and reader will care, but personally I'm always curious about the distinction between customary protocol that's ultimately not binding law but a good habit at the discretion of the Templars vs Templars actually violating Chantry law and getting away with it.
The most controversial would obviously be the part about the need for the First Enchanter's consent to make a mage Tranquil. Neither Kirkwall nor White Spire Templars seemed to care. In DA2 it almost looked like young mages could be made Tranquil by a Knight-Lieutenant without asking even Meredith. In Asunder the Lord Seeker is obviously a couple of paygrades above any Templar Knight-Commander, but the idea of making a Senior Enchanter Tranquil is not presented as a special circumstance enabled by the Lord Seeker's personal involvement. Rather, it seems like something Knight-Commander Eron could have ordered without a formal trial. There is no guarantee that First Enchanter Edmonde would have opposed that, but I'm pretty sure First Enchanter Orsino would not have agreed to non-voluntary Tranquil Rites for anyone but the most obviously warranted cases.
With the Lord Seeker there seemed to be a possibility of even a Senior Enchanter being made Tranquil simply for talking back to him, which obviously no First Enchanter with a semblance of a spine would approve unless threatened or something.
From the Asunder dialogue in the Grand Cathedral it also seems the Divine needs nobody's consent, which isn't very surprising since she's at the top of the hierarchy, but she can simply decide so on the Lord Seeker's motion with no need for even token consultation with the mage's First Enchanter. Justinia, being a mage-sympathizing Divine, didn't even bat an eye when Lord Seeker Lambert casually threated to have Senior Enchanter Rhys made Tranquil simply for speaking against making Pharamond Tranquil, i.e. essentially for verbal criticism.
I don't have the knowledge or the time to read up, replay the games etc., but it could be useful to clarify this issue.
Similarly leaving the tower — to what extent this is a First-Enchanter prerogative that the Knight-Commander can veto or suspend, where Templars blocking it in a casual manner are breaking Chantry law. From Vivienne's dialogue it seems pretty clear she believes the FE's permission is all that's needed not even for leaving temporarily but for habitually residing outside, which suggests no need for Templar clearance in ordinary circumstances or else she would mention it. Obviously that's not so easy at White Spire and probably not Kirkwall either.
The game's codex says that the Knight-Commander need the consent of the First Enchanter to make a mage tranquil, unless the First Enchanter is weak and has ignored by the templars (case of Orsino).--Virrac (talk) 06:44, January 3, 2017 (UTC)