|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Circle of Magi article.|
On the recent edit, the "contributor" is half-correct, as that is sort of what happened to Jowan, but it seems as if the harrowing issue is a much more common occurrence. Also, the First Enchanter had no idea that Jowan had already fallen so far, they merely thought he was weak-minded, not that he would turn to blood magic. I think this page should be reverted back to what it was (With a possible addendum on the issue, under a spoiler tag?) perhaps? Any thoughts? --Dontask92 (talk) 06:00, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
- I noticed that as well and thought the same thing. Personally, I think the original text (though still a little too specific, IMO) was a better fit. -- 10:13, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
The Tranquil Edit
I feel like they're deserving of their own page. While they're exclusive to the Circle, they are their own section of that order and separating them clears up the Circle of Magi page while specializing a page for Tranquil—notable characters, their responsibilities, place in Thedas, features, images, etc.--Kuzzzzco (talk) 22:50, April 6, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm adding a split candidate per your suggestion. I also think that there's enough to turn the section into a new article. --D. (talk · contr) 00:04, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
It was mentioned in Orsino's Codex entry http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_First-Enchanter_Orsino, saying "First Enchanter Orsino is an elf from the Free Marches city of Ansburg who was brought to the Gallows when he was very young." Orsino was brought to Kirkwall's Circle because Ansburg lacked its own, but the wording in the entry is admittedly a bit clumped together which could lead to confusion. In one of the loading page factoids (of which I cannot quote directly atm...) it is stated there are only 14 Circles in Thedas, not counting the Imperium's, and that two are in the Free Marches—those being Starkhaven and Kirkwall.
There is, however, a Circle in Rivain which hasn't been noted (source is one of the Codex entries): "From the journal of former Senior Enchanter Maleus, once of the Circle of Rivain, declared apostate in 9:20 Dragon Age."
Maybe the Circle of Ansburg is in another city by the same name? or maybe it was closed down? the loading page remains an indisputable source in this matter.--Ironreaper (talk) 03:31, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
Unless someone can find a mention of a Circle of Ansburg, I don't think one specifically exists. For now at least, until some evidence is found, it would be best to keep it off the main page, though no reason to detract the possibility completely. For now, all we have is speculation on where and when these Circles are. There was also a mention of a Circle in Markham in one of the DLC items, the Air of Confidence, with some speculation regarding that in its Talk page as well. Could be a similar incident as Ansburg if it ever had one.--Kuzzzzco (talk) 06:28, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
The editor mentioned the codex entry The Basket of Lost Socks as evidence, and it does mention a Circle of Ansburg, but as i said, it does not need to be in the Free Marches or may have been closed ages ago.--Ironreaper (talk) 00:53, April 11, 2011 (UTC)
Maybe the Ansburg Circle is relativly young (younger than Orsino for example) or doesn't exist anymore. The circle of Markham is indead mentioned in the Codex entry: Air of Confidence, but I don't really trust anything from Dragon Age Legends storywise with their dull names Kaiten, Evra, Ravi and Eiton (I could go on) and the obviously non-canon predecessor. Also, why should there a be a Circle in Markham or Ansburg if there is no evidence of it in Tantervale, the third largest city of the Free Marches?
Another thing that puzzles me is the fate of the circle in Starkhaven. It burned down sometime before Act 1 takes place, but in Act 2 in the Prime Suspect quest you can find this note which implies that the Circle still exist and is intact.
The exact circle quote from the game is "There are fourteen Circles of Magi in Thedas, excluding those in the Tevinter Imperium. The Circle at the Gallows in Kirkwall is one of two in the Free Marches and is the center of templar power in the East." --ShardofTruth (talk) 08:18, April 11, 2011 (UTC)
- I've added references on the page since I didn't know most of the information on some of the Circles. I still have no idea where the other Circles are from though, so if anyone could add a reference, it would be great.
- It is possible for the game to have some information conflicting with each other, but that does make it any less canon—we can't arbitrary decide that by ourselves since that'd be fan speculation. It'd say it's a retcon to accomodate the games, unless a developer confirms it is a mistake or something. --D. (talk · contr) 20:08, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
I've added some info and organized it into a table instead of a list. Hope it is ok this way. Some changes:
- In Asunder there are 15 Circles, not 14. This is mentioned twice in the book.
- Ansburg is not "between Free Marches and Antiva," it is a city in the Free Marches. See Codex entry: First Enchanter Orsino
- The Waking Sea is not a separate nation, it is a bannorn in Ferelden. See Ferelden#Banns and Bann Alfstanna
- Added the info that the Circle in Rivain was annulled.
- Confirmation tag: Codex entry: The Right of Annulment speaks about a Circle in Nevarra, it could be in Nevarra City, it could be in Cumberland.
- Confirmation tag: Where does the info about the Circle in Qarinus come from? Can't find any proof.
- I think the Circle of Qarinus is never mentioned directly. In fact I can only remember that Qarinus is mentioned at the end of "A Bitter Pill" where Hadriana states that Fenris' sister works for a magister namend Ahriman. I don't know if a magister is always part of a Circle, but if he was, then of course there would be a Circle in Qarinus too. --ShardofTruth (talk) 18:19, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
Leaders and Headquarters Edit
Should we change "Leaders" and "Headquarters" from "Varies" to, respectively, Grand Enchanter and First Encharter and Circle of Magi in Cumberland?
Mandalore 23:01, January 4, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if it'd be accurate to say the Circle of Magi's leader is the Grand Enchanter, and that their headquarters is in Cumberland. The College of Enchanters, yes (they only convene in Cumberland though, they don't really have a headquarters), but not the Circle of Magi. --D. (talk · contr) 20:00, January 26, 2012 (UTC)
- In Asunder Fiona is called "Grand Enchanter of the Circle of Magi" (Kindle Locations 6811-6812), so I think it is safe to assume she is the head of the Circle of Magi, not just the College (which consists of 15 First Enchanters + the Grand Enchanter, btw). I added "Grand Enchanter" as a "Leader." Not so sure about the headquarters though.
- PS Also according to Codex entry: The Imperial Chantry there is a Grand Enchanter in Tevinter: "The Imperial Divine is now always drawn from the ranks of the first enchanters and operates as Divine and Grand Enchanter both." Asherinka (talk) 14:45, April 12, 2012 (UTC)
This is a follow-up from Talk:Fraternities of Enchanters on Solivitus. Until someone can find a citation or get a confirmation from a developer that states that Formaris are no longer exclusively Tranquil, it would appear this is only an assumption. It is not wrong nor right to assume this codex entry is oudated or has been retconned, but I think it's only fan speculation. While acceptable to note this possible inconsistency, it'd be wrong to state this as a fact. --D. (talk · contr) 19:57, January 26, 2012 (UTC)
- "and the Circle's Formari branch of enchanters is exclusively Tranquil." (from the Dragon Age II official guide, about the Tranquil)
- The codex conflicts with the guide, either because it is poorly worded, there's some misunderstanding (intentional or not), or because it has really been updated/retconned. The guide for Dragon Age: Origins states that Formari are all Tranquil who do item enchantment though.
- There's the possibility that Solivitus' store name, Formari Herbalist, is simply a name and does not necessarily imply he is a Formari, as ridiculous as this may sound. --D. (talk · contr) 01:48, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
- I think it's worthy to mention the relation between the Circle of Magi and apostates (probably in the lead), but I don't think the section is necessary. --D. (talk · contr) 03:37, April 12, 2012 (UTC)
- There is a relation worth mentioning as any mage who isn't part of the Circle, is an apostate. 09:40, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
Replacing Heraldry Edit
I'm uncertain why the Circle of Magi heraldry I added to the page was removed--and not simply removed but deleted. The high res image I used was scanned from World of Thedas and is therefore the most current version being used. The current image is from DA2 it seems. This new version has a rather unsightly red background too, in my opinion. The quality of my version is superior, I think, and therefore I'm asking to restore it. Thanks, LadyAeducan (talk) 12:01, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
- In order to help this conversation I took a peak on the article's history and the user responsible for this is Loleil with reason: "switch to higher quality heraldry". 13:43, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, that looks excellent. The contrast is better with the red symbol on white background, I think. That's the heraldry as it appears in WoT, which I myself prefer. Thank you! LadyAeducan (talk) 19:47, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
Perendale and Jainen Edit
I'm not terribly familiar with how to edit the table that lists the Circles; could someone add the Perendale Circle (Nevarra)? It comes up during the Inquisition War Table mission "The Order's Obligations". Knight-Captain Briony apparently finds former members of the Perendale Circle camped out in their old tower as they had no where else to go during the war.
Additionally while I realize that Dragon Age Legends remains canon unless BioWare says otherwise, some banter between Vivienne and Cassandra concerning "Ferelden's First Enchanter's" (Irving's) feelings on Templars implies that there is only one Circle in Ferelden-- Kinloch Hold. Not saying that Jainen should be discarded, but just wanted to add some info to the talk page if there ever becomes a question about Jainen's canonicity in the future.
- Unfortunately, BioWare's multiple writers aren't masters of communication and consistency. Still, the possibility of Jainen having existed at some point but no longer at the exact point in time when someone refers to Irving as 'Ferelden's First Enchanter' would avoid direct contradiction. Alternatively, Irving could have some sort of supervisory responsibility over some sort of smaller, subordinate circles. DA:O and references in DA2 leave no doubt that Ferelden = Kinloch Hold = Fereldan Circle = the circle of which Irving is the boss. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 02:06, January 7, 2017 (UTC)NewbieOneKenobi
References don't work? Edit
just thought id point this out incase someone else knows what to do, but reference 3 & 4 both don't work :( the links redirect to the main forum page and do the same on archive.org too ((also im a little new to this so idk what im doing rip)) --Altusmages (talk) 10:36, September 1, 2016 (UTC)