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Uh, there appears to be a bug where the Circle quest cannot be completed. I was in a party with Wynne, Alistair, Shale and the Warden, and we killed Uldred. I used the Litany right when he died, got the cutscene with Irving and was teleported downstairs, but Irving then disappeared. It appears that the Circle doors are once again locked, and nobody who you speak to will open them. Furthermore, Gregoir behaves as if you had not entered the tower yet, but you have accepted the quest (i.e., he won't open the door for you, but he asks you why you haven't gone in yet). I don't think it's possible to complete the game any more this way, seeing as I believe you need to recruit Mages or Templars as well as the rest for Arl Eamon to suggest the Landsmeet.--Zelinker 02:03, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if you want to add it, but having Shale in your party when you attempt to cross the river to the circle makes the persuading go a lot faster. Shale will threaten to crush something the guard won't possibly miss. The guard will then immediately take you to the tower. --MiyuEmi 14:42, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Heh, didn't know that. I'm still on my first Play through. Going really slow, trying not to miss anything. I still haven't gone to get Shale yet though, so I'm unfamiliar with the actions/reactions she inspires --Crackerjaquebox 15:41, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

She is the best friend to anyone if you're trying to coerce an NPC into doing what you want. The only place you can't take her is the Arl's residence to rescue Queen Anora. Anora's handmaid will tell you she can't go and Shale says, "Oh I see, I would stand out amongst all the other statues." I'm on my 4th playthrough because I'm a completionist and RPG obsessed. The page looks excellent. Look forward to seeing it when it's complete! --MiyuEmi 16:42, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

I'm a bit of a completionist as well, but between work and the family I don't get to put as much into gaming as I'd like to. Shale was my next stop today anyway, and I was looking forward to it. Thank you for saying it looks well. I do this stuff in my spare time at work when I don't have anything to do. It's also nice to be able to help others, 'cause I know I certainly need it sometimes. Torment kicked my bum! --Crackerjaquebox 17:05, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Myself as well, I only edit at work as teenagers are really demanding. I make sure I have my gaming time at night though as I need it! If you need anything confirmed, let me know as I keep the official guide at home in case I get stuck so I'm not tossing controllers or stressing if I get stuck! --MiyuEmi 10:16, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

OOOH! Controllers! Perhaps you can verify a few things for me then! I play on a PC, and from some things I've been noticing, the item stats between the PC and Consoles are sometimes different. As well, I have no idea what the button for highlighting interactive items is (TAB on the computer).... I mentioned possibly turning in the quest "Summoning Sciences" to the Collective... I read that somewhere, but I just did it while I was on my way up the tower, so I personally can't verify it on my current game. Do you know if you can? --Crackerjaquebox 10:48, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I will check my guide at home tonight and then post a reply here to let you know for sure. --MiyuEmi 10:39, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

that would be greatly appreciated. Consequently, do you know if anyone is trying to... "Fix" this page right now? I'm still editing, repairing and writing it, and sometimes I go into preview mode, or upload progress and things get... strange. Headings and such change, subheadings lose their type, so on and so forth. --Crackerjaquebox 10:48, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, but based on your post below, clearly someone was editing in the middle of you. They should have a way to lock a page to prevent edits before a page is finished. Maybe you could ask a moderator. --MiyuEmi 13:21, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I have the official prima guide and I can say it doesn't say if there is a second part where you turn it into the mages collective however this doesn't mean that there isn't one. There is a Chanter's Board quest called Unintended Consequences that unlocks after you do summoning sciences lesson 2 were you find the Trickster Whim you had summoned in a random encounter and you defeat it and then report it to the nearest chanter's board. KageZX 13:47, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
Ahaaaa... The Summoning Sciences 2 portion was what I was referring to. However, and I can't remember where, I picked up the information in a vague kind of manner and included it knowing that, something at least, came from it. Thank you. --Crackerjaquebox 17:06, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I found an interesting bug while returning to the tower at a later time, if you make your way to top floor on the PS3 version after the quest is completed and you've left for somewhere else first, Uldred will reappear and you can fight him again. I don't know if this was a one off but it scared the hell out of me. He was much easier the second time and gave me some free experience, his body disappeared after the battle without a chance to loot after the fight and there was nothing to suggest that it was supposed to happen. -- Anon.

This happens on the PC version also - as of patch 1.04. If you don't loot the body apparently. (talk) 14:39, October 16, 2010 (UTC)


An unregistered user edited the side quests section in reference to turning in the quest Summoning Sciences. He removed the line associated with turning it in, and left a note saying it completed with the 3rd quest, which it doesn't. I re-added the line as a as a different paragraph and asked that people refrain from editing without coming to THIS PAGE first. I'm not even done with the article yet, and it's very hard to write if people are changing things AS you're righting them, AND posting information that is not only wrong, but attacks something listed as "unconfirmed". I have only READ about there being an associated quest that takes Summoning Sciences farther, and it specifically stated that the rituals CANNOT be performed before the tower is clear. Since I am still on my first play through, and did the quest BEFORE I finished the tower, I have no PERSONAL way to verify this. I am willing to discuss it, and go to any links that can prove me wrong, or right. But if you have evidence, please post it, and I will gladly change the information. --Crackerjaquebox 11:56, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Warning, an unregistered user just edited your in progress page. --MiyuEmi 13:51, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, well it's finally done. People can now destroy it, or fix it to their hearts content... It's taken two days to write the thing, and my hands are tired. --Crackerjaquebox 13:57, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

I fixed an error that I had unwittingly included in this walkthrough. I had read somewhere that when you return from the fade, you face a Drake along with the dragonlings. I have been through this several times now, and there is only the dragonlings. I removed the reference to the Drake. Sorry to have included something erroneous. --Crackerjaquebox 11:20, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Actually I remember facing a drake there also. Maybe it depends on the difficulty setting, or what order the main quests are done. I would have been playing on normal/possibly easy at the time, but can't recall what order I did the main quests in. I'm certain it was there.
You're not imagining things. I just got hit with the Cullen glitch, and was working my way back from him to the sloth demon, and encountered first the dragonlings, then the Drake. In the normal progression, this would have been drake first. I'm looking at the massive blood pile, and the loot sparkle from it. Just aquired a drake scale, and I have NOT embarked upon the Urn of Andraste quest. I've just done about half of the Orzammar stuff and moved on to the Broken Circle. Currently playing on Casual. Dragonchilde (talk) 21:12, February 4, 2011 (UTC)
I think I once got a dragon scale at this point, perhaps my very first playthrough (on casual since I was discovering the genre), but I can't tell how since every other playthrough didn't trigger a drake fight. My current playthrough is at it's earliest stage, done Warden Keep, Shale and Lothering, then straight to the tower (playing an arcane warrior, wanted to boost the abilities) yet didn't encounter a drake, only dragonlings.--JayDea (talk) 08:34, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Style Edit

First, good job with this section of the walkthrough. I've just been going over it to fix the punctuation a bit and to make it sound a bit more neutral. Although running commentary makes the article more lively, I think that a walkthrough should just lead the players to succeed in the game, and allow them to make their own judgments on the character. I don't mean to step on any toes though. Ancestralmask 16:23, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Hhehehe... The running commentary isn't actually a "personal" view point towards any character or action. It's more of a way to keep the read more interesting. I happen to like Wynne, but I did originally say you could tell her to sit her old bum on the side line... Cause, well, she's IS old. :) I did my best to keep the write neutral, didn't get too in depth on tactics, and left most information and knowledge to be found by the person actually playing. I will admit, I'm not the best writer in the world, so there's many, many grammatical mistakes as well as a few typos... I try to keep up on those, but it's not very easy. Thanks for "cleaning up". There's no toes to step on here anyway. :) --Crackerjaquebox 17:02, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
I know, I do the "running commentary" a lot when summarizing movies and books to friends, it's a lot more fun that way ;) But I think most people who are using a wiki to look up game details just want to know the quickest way to plow through a section of the game they're having trouble with. You've done a really good job making the article informational, I'm not sure I'd have been able to do that. And I rarely have time to play, so I've been hesitant to make entirely new sections here for fear of screwing something up. I'll just use my skills to keep the place tidy where I can. :) Ancestralmask 17:27, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Flemeth's Grimoire? Edit

Is it really Flemeth's Grimoire that gets picked up in Irving's quarters? I played this quest last night, and distinctly remember getting the Black Grimoire. Don't have access to the game at this moment though, so I can't check. Ancestralmask 16:48, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

It is indeed the Black Grimoir, but because of the sheer volume of writing I hadn't fixed it yet. That's one of the reasons I linked Flemeth and Grimoire seperately as well. --Crackerjaquebox 17:03, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Flemeth's Grimoire can only be got at Flemeth's Hut and is Morrigan's personal quest. --MiyuEmi 10:33, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Black Grimoire, unlocks the quest to get Flemeth's Real Grimoire. Hollowness 07:04, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Desire Demon and the Templar Edit

Now I'm just curious, because there's been a couple posts on it, and there's a *note about it now in the walkthrough. But, why in the hell would anyone let the Desire Demon that has the Templar in thrall go? Do you run into Him/Them later? Perhaps me, but letting the demon escape just does not compute. Demon = Death in my book. Anyway, just curious what comes of this, and if there's any real reason to let her go. --Crackerjaquebox 14:18, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Roleplay :P. I was playing an evil character who had absolutely no problems with demons as long as they didn't attack her, so it was the most logical course of action for her. Besides, as a mage, she had no particular love for Templars. And it's not like trying to kill the demon would "save" the Templar anyway. - Ancestralmask 21:57, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
I roleplay alot. And even in your scenerio.. Wouldn't killing them work as well? No hate for a demon, but no love for a templar. I'd rather take the opportunity to end the Bastard then let her free. But.... Maybe if I eventually make a character that takes up the Desire Demon from Connor's... Third Choice. :) --Crackerjaquebox 23:38, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
(Late reply is late) Well, my character also wouldn't lift a finger unless she absolutely had to. So... avoiding a fight is just a lot cleaner. Of course, I've been noticing that I'm missing out on a lot of experience simply because I never felt the urge to fight every little thing I came across. - Ancestralmask 17:03, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

The Demon states that in the man she saw his desire for a quiet family life with a wife and children, so that is what the Demon gave him. happiness that he would want, even if it is an illusion. You can debate with the demon whether this is right or not. (see: The Matrix/Allegory of the Cave) =P --Galith 07:07, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

That might be OK if the Templar chose that course of action, but he didn't, the Demon just took it upon herself, plus he dies sooner. By definition, everyone wants what makes them happy. (talk) 18:06, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

This is the hardest main quest ever Edit

What is the best party members and charcter build?OutcastNeedhelp 01:42, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Helpful SuggestionsEdit

There is no "best" party or character build, persay. There are some recommended, but ultimately it boils down to play style. The most common party make-up would be a Tank (warrior in the best armor you have to soak damage and occupy enemies). A mage/healer type to keep the tank and the group alive, and two forms of damage dealer. Most people differ on the types of damage that they would prefer to bring to a group. I personally prefer to have a Rogue/archer for ranged damage and then a second warrior usually using a 2-hand weapon to deal damage, but that can also take a few hits as well. This of course can't always be the case, depending on the type of character you, the player, are playing. Many other people like to stack two mages for extra crowd control, with a rogue for picking locks and dealing melee/ranged damage. One mage is usually focused primarily on healing, while the other is focused on damage/de-buffing. In my experience rogues also make decent back up "tanks" when controlled by the player. They require a high dexterity as a rule, and thus have very high defense scores, allowing them to dodge most attacks. Their stuns are also very effective, and when combined with coup-de-grace and back-stab usually kills things before they come out of the stun. You should also try to carry as many healing poultices as possible, and set tactics on characters to use them at around 50% health. That way should your healing mage be late on a heal, it won't be as disastrous.
As far as character build. Well, that is entirely up to the individual. You will want to play your character your own way, not the recommended style of someone else. There is a near infinite amount of ways a person can set up their character, through weapons, abilities, and armor. This is the most personal aspect of the game, and you really shouldn't ask so much how to build. There's guides for various class/archetypes but they're usually very general. For example: A warrior using sword and board (weapon and shield) should usually focus on strength until they are able to wear the heaviest of armor, 42. Then focus primarily on Dexterity, Willpower (preference), and add a few points in constitution to allow the warrior to be able to absorb more damage. Alternatively a similar warrior that is focused on using large 2-hand weapons would focus solely on strength because it is the modifier for both damage and hit % with that weapon. That same warrior with a 2 hand weapon can either be using Massive armor, which increases threat on enemies, but off-sets it with the ability to take more punishment, or perhaps use lighter armor, to reduce attention from enemies and increase the amount of special attacks they can perform by reducing fatigue generated by such heavy armor. The trade off being of course, that the warrior is much more "squishy."
Similarly there are various ways to set up rogues as well. You can have your melee specialized rogue that focuses primarily on Dex and using two weapons in fighting. Back-stabs do an impressive amount of damage, and stunning is great for controlling a group of enemies. Or that same rogue can be set up to use Bows/crossbows to do some very good damage from range, without drawing as much attention. The melee rogue requires more micro-management but is very satisfying and a boon to the group, but I would personally only recommend it for a personally controlled character, as back-stabbing can't be set as a tactic. Where-as ranged rogues can be programmed and forgotten about basically. It is recommended that whatever you do, that you always have a rogue in the party simply for unlocking chests/doors when the need arises. However, this isn't "essential" because the game designers never put anything super important in a chest that not everyone has access to. It's merely a monetary investment on the part of the player.
Mages introduce the largest amount of versatility to the group no matter what the objective. Depending on how you've set them up they can perform a very large array of roles. Arcane Warriors can actually be set up as the Tank, negating the need of the sword and board wielding warrior in the party. With Massive armor, and the mages impressive amount of sustained abilities, Arcane Warriors become nearly immortal, especially in the later game. On the other hand, Mages are also the only class in the game capable of healing, and can even specialize in it further with Spirit healer. This allows them to keep the party alive in any number of circumstances. Many would see this as the mage's ultimate role, simply because they're the only ones that can do it. I, however, have never focused on it at all. Preferring the use of healing poultices, and only throwing the occasional heal with my mage. I see the mage being more specialized than just a heal-bot. I prefer to use them for controlling encounters with various crowd control abilities like paralysis and so on. They are very effective at weakening enemies, making them less likely to kill you. They are also the only class that can do sustainable damage to a group of enemies, instead of only one at a time. The combination of large area spells, and the ability to control the pace in combat are the primary attributes I focus on with my mage.
Regardless of how you chose to form your party, it is imperative to realize that success in any given situation is largely determined by the tactics used in combat. For example: A large group of enemies can overwhelm the player, especially if they have "magical" aid. The first thing any player should do when involved in large scale combat is identify and neutralize the largest potential threat first. Just as a mage can make or break your party, a single spell caster in an enemy group can destroy you if you leave them alone. Sure, there's an "elite" enemy in the group you're fighting. He may hit hard, for sure. But the emissary in the back paralyzing, and weakening your group, all the while throwing fireballs at you will ultimately spell your doom. When entering combat identify any enemy spell casters and do whatever is necessary to lock them down and eliminate them immediately. Enemy archers can also be very annoying, but they normally focus on your tank, and he's using a shield which limits their effectiveness greatly. As a general rule I usually ignore them until last, unless they decide to focus on a different party member, namely the healing mage. In groups with few relatively powerful enemies, like "boss" encounters, it's best just to be patient. Keep the tank alive and the boss focused on him. Do whatever you can to weaken/de-buff the boss, and then just try to stay alive. Being patient will win the day. Auto-attacking and making sure you control the fight as much as possible, is more important than trying to end it quickly. Pick your fights. Most encounters in the game can be "scouted" well before actual engagement. A rogue with just a couple ranks in stealth can explore an area and identify threats ahead of time. Since most encounters will have you outnumbered by a substantial margin, it is best to identify helpful features in the terrain. For example: identify any form of bottle neck that you can siphon the enemy down, limiting the amount of enemies that can engage you at the same time. Fight in door-ways when ever possible. Place traps in narrow corridors that will increase the likely-hood that they will be triggered and also maximize their effects. Use crowd-control strategies that will reduce active combatants. Have adequate supplies, such as healing poultices and lyrium potions to see you through prolonged confrontations.
These are just some examples and suggestions for you to help ease things up a bit. Hope it helps, if even a little. --Crackerjaquebox 05:19, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

two words: Mana Clash (talk) 22:00, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Suggest: Background on Lake Calenhad Docks to be Moved Edit

There is an extensive Background on Lake Calenhad on this page, I think it should be move to Lake Calenhad Docks. Hollowness 07:08, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

It does look a bit messy doesn't it? My feeling is that it should be moved to its own sub-section in the Walkthough section rather than left in the background. I prefer that to moving it to the Lake Calenhad Docks location page because getting into the Circle Tower is part of the Broken Circle quest. In general, I'm not sure it's a good idea to put much in the way of quest info on location articles because of the concerns I raised yesterday on Forum:Location Location Location. That's just my view, though. --Zoev 18:47, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, deffinately some sort of clean up would be advised, without creating more concerns/issues. Hollowness 19:06, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Okay. I may have a go at this now, as it's something fairly quick and easy I can do whilst keeping my eye out for RtO! --Zoev 19:09, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Right, that's now done. What I've done isn't perfect by any stretch, but hopefully it's now easier to get an overview of the quest from the background section without getting bogged down in details about the Docks. --Zoev 20:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Definatly more agreeable now. :) Hollowness 20:25, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

How To Gain Help From Both Templars And Mages Edit

It Says In The Artical That If Gregoire Is Pressed into Saying He Will Only Accept News Of The Crisis Ending From The First Enchanter That You Can Recieve Help From Both The MAges And The Templars In The Final Battle. How, Exactly? Coroxn 17:04, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. As far as I know, whilst what it says in the Result section of the article is true - namely that the mages' envoy at the camp will say that the mages and the templars are joinning together to help you - this doesn't translate into having a templar army in the final battle. If this is other people's understanding then perhaps the article could do with some clarification. --Zoev 19:00, January 13, 2010 (UTC) (@Coroxn, it may just be me but I find it a real struggle to read sentences where each word is capitalized. Could I be really cheeky and suggest that you write normally? Well, I already have been, haven't I!? Smiley)

O.K., Fi..........fine, I'll try.....Coroxn 15:51, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I really do appreciate it. -Zoev 18:52, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

This is correct, while the envoy at the camp says that the Mages and Templars are united behind your cause, you only have access to the mages' help during the Final Battle. I'll update the article to reflect/clarify that Raphaeldisanto 12:44, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

It would also be helpful to clarify how to do this, especially noting that the dialogue options that get you into the circle of magi will affect how Gregoire acts when you first meet him. ie: If you persuade Cullen Gregoire will be nice when you first meet, if you intimidate him then Gregoire will not be pleased (I don't think you'll have the option of getting both). Jmjimmy 15:03, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
I think the point is moot since you can't actually get both, regardless of what the envoy at the camp says. The envoy's said to me that both the mages and templars are on my side every time I've played through it so far, and I still only ever get the mages. I don't find that the dialogue with the templar on the dock makes a difference - But don't promise anything to Cullen either way when you find him in his bubble, then preserve all the mages, and then ask "Well, what does the Knight-Commander think?" when speaking with Gregoire. That should get you the dialogue from the envoy that both mages and templars are fighting for you, but regardless of what he says, you still only get the mages. I don't know whether's a bug or or a dialogue oversight by BioWare. Raphaeldisanto 15:29, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
The other question is does it affect the achievement? I found during one of my play throughs that if you intimidate Cullen and fail, but eventually convince him to let you across you don't have the required "only if the first enchanter says it's safe" choice so you don't end up getting the "Well, what does the Knight-Commander think?". But you're right, since you don't get both in the end battle it's not much difference anyway.Jmjimmy 15:42, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, interesting. Yeah, I've never gone that route. I don't know whether or not it affects the achievement. I killed all the mages on my last play through (well, actually, I wanted to keep Wynne in the party, so I simply didn't use the litany and Uldred abominized them all) because I wanted that achievement. You don't have to explicitly side with Gregoire or Cullen to get the 'Siding with the Templars' achievement. Just letting them all be turned into Abominations works just fine.
Oh yeah I'd forgotten about the Annulment Invoker achievement... I was thinking of the "Standard Bearer" achievement (gain support of all allies) Jmjimmy 16:13, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Recruiting the Blood MageEdit

I am wondering as to what is required in order to be able to recruit the blood mage, the one that asks you to show her mercy, into your army? I was pleasantly surprised when I was able to do this with my human noble, but as a mage I am never given the option. Can anyone confirm if the option is tied to your origin, a skill, quest status, specialization or party members? At this point the option does not seem dependant on who you have in your party at the time. - Kerethos 17:44, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

I was able to recruit her with my elf mage, and my city elf, but not with my dwarf commoner or human noble. Incidently, but both my mage and my city elf had actively condoned Blood Magic before (by siding with Zathrian despite knowing what he had done, agreeing to preserve the Anvil of the Void, and using the potion from Warden's Keep) whereas neither my dwarf commoner or human noble had done any of those things.

I'm not sure which exact one of those things might have contributed to my being able to recruit the blood mage, but I do know the game keeps track of how accepting your character is toward Blood Magic in general, because it has a small effect on the dialogue for Morrigan's ritual, too. With my anti-Blood Magic human noble, Morrigan told him that the ritual was Blood Magic, but that Blood Magic was "just a name" and he shouldn't be afraid of it. There was also an option to say "I won't use blood magic just to save myself." Whereas with my pro-Blood Magic elf mage, Morrigan admitted that the ritual was Blood Magic, but then went on to say it seemed unlikely to matter to a person like me. With that character I couldn't find any option to refuse the ritual on grounds of it being Blood Magic, either.DarkAger 19:57, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
I can only say for certain that I had completed Nature of the Beast, making Zathrian sacrifice him self to end the curse, and freed Jowan prior to starting Broken Circle. I might also have spared Avernus to let him continue his research. It is likely that it was the act of sparing Avernus, or freeing Jowan, that gave me the option of recruiting her. I can confirm that just telling Duncan, during the Magi Origin story, when you ask him if he's ever seen anyone use blood magic, that "I wish I had that kind of power" isn't enough for you to be able to recruit the blood mage (I only have the option of sparing or kill her). A reasonable hypothesis seem to be that it takes an act of condoning blood magic, prior to encountering the mage, in order to be able to recruit her, not just speaking positively about blood magic. I’ll try to test this during the week - Kerethos 22:12, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
I’ve now tested this with the Warden's Keep DLC and I can report that drinking the Alchemical Concoction in Soldier’s Peak and/or telling Levi that the wardens condone the use of blood magic against darkspawn and/or sparing Avernus and letting him continue his research doesn’t let make you able recruit the blood mage into your army. I’ll try letting Jowan free to help me, getting the blood mage specialization unlocked and then finally being a blood mage myself next. - Kerethos 23:37, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Just adding that while freeing Jowan might count toward recruiting the blood mage, it apparently isn't strictly necessary. My city elf hadn't met Jowan yet but was still able to recruit the blood mage. Aside from Warden's Keep the only pro-blood magic things that character had done were 1) keeping the Anvil of the Void and 2) hearing the story of how Zathrian used blood magic, but sparing his life and killing the werewolves anyway.DarkAger 00:27, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

I’ve found one sure way of being able to recruit her, which also alters what you are able to say during the conversation, and it is the most obvious of things; have someone become a Blood Mage. Being a blood mage myself or, as was the case with my human noble, having a party member specialize as one opens the option to have her join your mage army. Based on what has been said it appears that the Warden must have taken to using blood magic.

The ways to do this are to be:

  1. Have someone, party member or the Warden specialize as a blood mage. (Confirmed)
  2. Preserving the Anvil of the Void (unconfirmed)
  3. Hearing the story of how Zathrian used blood magic, but sparing his life and killing the werewolves anyway (unconfirmed)

Preserving the Anvil of the Void seems likely to work, as it’s an act of actively using blood magic towards the Wardens cause. I’m not sure the same can be said for option 3. Sacrificing Lady Isolde does not give you the option of ordering the blood mage to join your army. - Kerethos 02:31, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Come to think of it, I totally forgot that I had Morrigan as a blood mage with my city elf PC, but not with my dwarf (at least not at that point in the game). So having someone learn the blood mage specialization might just be all that matters. Wonder if that's also what altered the dialogue in Morrigan's ritual for me? "Since you were the one who asked me to learn blood magic, I'm guessing that you won't mind if I use it to make a demon baby, now."*lol*DarkAger 03:13, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
Hm, it might just be entirely dependant on whether or not the Warden, or a party member, has specialized as a blood mage then. - Kerethos 11:02, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

"Fight the darkspawn. Redeem yourself." has the flag "PC_IS_DEMON" which is checked in cir000pt_main plot script. If PC is Assassin or Blood Mage or Reaver it will return TRUE.

I can confirm the previous statement "If the PC is Assassin or Blood Mage or Reaver" to be true for the PS3 version also. My elven blood mage had this option. My Bard/Duelist city elf did not-- even with Morrigan in her party specialising in blood magic. I have yet to try my elven mage without the blood magic specialisation, will post results.

The Helpless Blood Mage Edit

If you recruit the blood mage into the army, does this actually have any effect on anything? Or does she just go downstairs and wait with the other mages? --Rolan Zevran 00:28, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Stan likes Cullens plans to much Edit

hi all if taking to Cullen with stan in the party there is a good chance of him siding with Cullens plan. if you intend to safe the mages and tell him you won't just kill em all its -20 approval. might be worth mentioning here. Denna

Connor issue? Edit

The article says that depending on who you side with, it affects how Connor is dealt with. What does it mean by this? I.e do you have to kill him if siding with the templars? Or is it still possible to help him, just not with the help of the circle?

I think this question should be placed in the Talk page for the Arl of Redcliffe page, or Connor directly. Anyways, From the Arl of Redcliffe: Travel to the Circle Tower and ask the Circle for help: This will spare Connor and Isolde = this option is only available if the Warden has not completed the broken Circle quest yet, or if she has sided with the Magi at the end of that quest line. I think that's the major impact of Broken Circle on the handling of Connor: one of your options won't be available if you side with the Templars (I guess it is available as far as leaving redcliffe and travelling to the Tower, but once you get to the Tower you won't have the option of getting Irving to help?) I'm speculating because I have not tried the Arl quest line after siding with the Templars.FR 23:34, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Broken Greagoir dialogue path Edit

It is possible to interact with Greagoir in such a way as to render the tower completely inaccessible. I can't believe this is intentional! While playing last night, I chose "I need to think about this a bit more" twice. After the second choice, the game autosaves, the door to the tower remains locked, and the option to discuss entry with Greagoir no longer exists! (Playing unpatched v1.02a on PC BTW). 9emini 19:39, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

The same bug is affecting me on my Rogue. I have the latest patch and am playing on the Xbox 360. Is there any workaround to this bug? It renders the game unbeatable if you do not have a previous save. You can only ask questions about the tower and the Templar's backgrounds... As 9emini mentionedata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3Dd, the option to unlock the doors and get inside the tower proper is no longer there. Aussie48

I FOUND IT!!!! I FOUND THE SOLUTION!!!! well maybe.... it worked for me so, what you will need to do is to go all the way to the corner by the injured Templar and go to the circle menu where you pick your items and etc. So when you in the menu you should see some enemies by looking around and when you see one select it by attacking it. (ALSO YOU CAN PICK TO OPEN THE DOOR BUT THAT WILL MAKE MORE ENEMIES ATTACK YOU) Then your current selected character should phase through the wall and attack the enemies thus going past the entrance door. I have just discovered this so it may cause some future problems but what are your other options, starting a new game? I hoped i helped in some way and if anyone can contribute please do. Some of us lost countless hours to this Broken Dialogue.--Storyteller3105 (talk) 21:47, July 22, 2013 (UTC) I have also discovered that this will not likely cause any problems and you can work your way back to wynne and got through her barrier by going to the sides. (Recent Discovery)


^ For a more detailed ad better solution to this problem, i was glad to help anyone who encountured this problem. --Storyteller3105 (talk) 00:53, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Possible bug when you forget to use the Litany of AdrallaEdit

Note: I have had a problem here sometimes because of the Litany of Adrallia, the scroll that you get from the body Niall. I did not use because i was stupid and what happened is when i defeated Uldred and when back to Gregoir he said he would support me for the blight then i talked to Wynne. She acts like i never even entered the tower! The quest did not regester as complete and i can not get back into the tower. Technically you do not have to get the Liany of Adrallia at all but IF you do make sure to use it.

  • Comments on this bug, and a confirmation would be welcome before moving this entry back to the article page. Desyndra 12:09, April 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • I have exactly the same problem. Both Greagoir and Wynne act like nothing happened even though I have already defeated Uldred (after having forgotten to use the Littany on my 4-5 try to defeat him) Unfortunately, I did not think anything of it and continued to play many many hours (all of Orzammer, for example) but have come to a point where I need either the Templars or the Mages. I cannot get back into the Tower because the door is locked. I cannot talk to Greagoir who thinks nothing has happened yet. As far as I can tell I am completely stuck and cannot progress further in the game. I am running on OSX 10.6.2 and Dragon Age v1.01.9364.3318

Didn't run into any problems here; my dwarf commoner refused to use the Litany, and as a result, completed the total annulment of the Circle. Uldred managed to turn the remaining mages, including Irwin, so there was no one left in the tower except Cullen. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 00:22, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Labyrinth movie reference? Edit

Hi all, I'm new, and currently unregistered. When first confronting the Sloth demon on the 4th floor, Leliana says "you have no power over me". Is that an intentional reference to the movie Labyrinth? Or is it just a coincidence? (talk) 03:22, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

That phrase has already been added to the Easter Eggs page as a Labyrinth reference. Desyndra (talk) 06:00, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Blood mage confrontation with Wynne Edit

I just checked Dragon Age Nexus, as of July 17 the patch to restore the scene where Wynne accuses you of blood magic IS still available. It's a part of the larger Dialogue Tweaks patch, listed as an optional additional file.[2]Kellyhelene (talk) 04:26, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Since this isn't part of the shipped game, it should be moved to a trivia section of the article IMHO.

Godwin's info on Uldred Edit

Can someone confirm whether or not the info Godwin supposedly has is able to be gotten if not on PC version? I have PS3 version and all dialog choices I ran through he never offered any info on Uldred. --Tsavi (talk) 22:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

re:bugs, codex entry Edit

How is it a bug that you can swap party members on the top floor? Since you can do it on all platforms, seem to me to be a design choice. Probably because this main quest is the only one where you can't leave, and to accommodate the last minute change of mind by the player, or use someone with more offensive capabilities in the final battle.

Also, I noticed in the codex that after I decided to cleanse the tower, and Irving lived but went into voluntary confinement, he is noted as having died, "...when the tower became overrun by demons.". Perhaps it has been noted elsewhere.

Cullen teleport bug Edit

The wiki mentions a bug on XBox360: "Sometimes a glitch will occur when you walk to the left of the second room you enter without going to the central chamber. This glitch will automatically teleport you to Cullen's prison and you can get to the Harrowing chamber without having to fight Sloth in the Fade. (This glitch is confirmed on Xbox 360). " I had the exact same bug on PC with v1.04. Before entering the room with the Desire Demon and Templar, I had my party set to hold the position and entered the room, triggering the cutscene. The party got TPd into the room for the cutscene and the battle begun. after a couple seconds, I ended up in dialog with Cullen, past the Sloth Demon and without the Litany. It didn't happen the few times I entered the room without my party set to hold the position. However, I haven't yet reproduced it. --JayDea (talk) 10:59, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

Broken Circle Edit

please help me with this quest thank you Fallenflight (talk) 22:31, August 4, 2011 (UTC) Fallenflight

What do you need help with? --Sencilia (talk) 13:51, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

DA 2? Edit

I know "Nature of the Beast" results in a side quest in DA2 depening on who you side with. Does this quest have any impact on DA2? (talk) 04:31, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

Locked doors inside the Circle of Magi Edit

I forgot how fun this game is so I go another play-through and encounter something I don't recall, locked metal doors inside the circle of magi on the second floor of the tower. I already finished the circle mission and decided to go back and check out the locked door and nothing. I ignore it until I finished all other main story quests, which I just did, so, I thought another visit to the circle wouldn't hurt. For some reason I thought having a rouge would help out but alas, I was wrong (the lock-picking skill and deft hand talent on my rouge is fully leveled btw). Any idea on how to open the door? Could it be a bug? It's not a pressing matter but not knowing what's on the other side is a bit distracting and annoying. Any ideas/advice are most welcome. Thanks in advance

~~ferntastic~~ 06:26, September 17, 2012

There's a door that can only be opened during the mage origin story for a quest. That might be it.
──┤ 22px-5308644.png Eganogard talk ├── 07:41, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
yes, the door to the storage caverns is only pertinent for Infested Storerooms during the Mage Origin; the same doors will be pointlessly clickable and locked during (and possibly after) Broken Circle. you're not missing anything. (though if i ever get around to crafting a mod, i plan to give those on Broken Circle a tricky, messy chance to inspect the caverns also...) hint on locks: if the floating text says "Insufficient Skill", it is worth building up the lockpicking score to try again (or if possible, to rotate in a companion with a higher total); if the text says anything else ("Unable to pick", "Requires key", etc.) then picking is not an option and never will be. Yeti magi (talk) 17:36, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
at first i thought you might be referring to the door to the basement (which could be referred to as being on the 'second' floor if one counts the basement as the 'first'), which, while a necessary part of Watchguard of the Reaching, also can never be opened outside of the Mage Origin. Yeti magi (talk) 17:36, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Phrase Removal Edit

I removed the "almost certainly the most powerful foe you've dealt with..." as its very subjective and only applies if you go to the Circle Tower early or have troubles with magic attacks.. To just as many, he's a very, very easy boss, especially if you fight him much later in the game and are likely easy to defend against his attacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

You did right. However please don't remove comments of other people from talk pages. Viktoria Landers 10:21, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Denerim Reinforcements Edit

I've never tried it, but I don't suppose that waiting for word to reach Denerim and letting the reinforcements take care of the whole Annulment situation, thus getting me out of a main quest is a possibility? StillAlive (talk) 21:28, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

It's not possible to "wait" anyway in any of the DAO quests as the only sense of time in the game is that the Blight took one year. Also, it is possible the Grand Cleric of Denerim never got the message as Loghain may have stopped the messenger as well, not wanting the Chantry to find out he cooperated with Uldred. Henio0 (talk) 22:01, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
Meh, figured as much. I can leave Redcliffe and wait for it to get destroyed, but the Circle? Nooooo. Tsk, oh well, guess I'll just have to flip a coin or something to decide whether to Annul the Tower or save it. StillAlive (talk) 22:08, March 31, 2013 (UTC)
You could try some role-playing. :P Like, bring Morrigan with you, and Wynne will attack you for whatever reason (hypocrisy, thy name is Templar Wynne), then try holding on during fighting Uldred for a little longer so that Irving would go all abomination on you, then kill him. Greagoir will have to annul the circle when you get down with Cullen. You could justofy this, if your character is no killer, that the mages were weak and there was no saving them if even the first enchanter got himself possesed. :) Henio0 (talk) 22:20, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Puzzling Start Edit

When first encountering Wynne, if her barrier spell was so good, how come a Rage Demon had already got past it ? And in addition, how come Wynne is so powerful at that stage that a single wave of her staff disposes of the demon ? It must have taken it out of her, she's not strong enough to do that again for ages. (talk) 13:07, December 8, 2014 (UTC)

And how come, when you let her join the party, you get the option to reselect any other party member, not just those who crossed the threshold ? (One should have to reject just one existing team member to stay with the kids.)

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