Talk: Alistair

{{Talk page}}

== Layout with Box? ==
Is it just me, or is Alistair's character box now weirdly squished? [[User:Loleil|Loleil]] 10:13, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

It is. I'm not sure what to do about it though... [[User:DarkSpecie|DarkSpecie]] 10:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I did some retooling that seems to have fixed the problem. The image of Alistair is a bit large now, but I kind of like it!
Plus, the page reflows well enough that it really doesn't look that bad. Even at lower resolutions.
-- [[User_talk:XavierGrimwand|'''Xavier Grimwand''']] on Friday, June 5, 2009 @ 10:10 am (ET)

That entry about him being a romance option felt good, I bet. Right, Selty? :-) [[User:MyNickIsTakenSoIUseThisOne|MyNickIsTakenSoIUseThisOne]] 20:09, 10 June 2009 (UTC) -- Alexander

... :) yeeeessss--[[Special:Contributions/122.111.31.58|122.111.31.58]] 21:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know how to edit the box, so figured I'd just ask - would it be possible (or more appropriate) to link Steve Valentine's actual website rather than his IMDB page? It's http://www.stevevalentine.com/ --[[User:Fritti Tailchaser|Fritti Tailchaser]] 15:04, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

== Quote ==

Where is the, "death" one from, for that matter!? Is David Gaider secretly coming on this site to sneak quotes in? --[[User:Selty|Selty]] 07:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe [[User talk:173.34.202.195|173.34.202.195]]'s comment about Cori May's signature provides the answer. So sadly it's probably not David Gaider. But on the other hand, they are anonymous, so you never know... [[User:Loleil|Loleil]] 07:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/173.34.202.195|173.34.202.195]] 03:36, 8 August 2009 (UTC) No, sorry, I'm not Mr. Gaider. ;)
Though if you look for Cori's posts on the forum, I believe the signature's still the same.

== Spoiler ==

Just a heads up for when we can get a confirmation, I am almost 100 percent sure that Alistair is the son of Fiona and Maric, and therefore an heir to the throne. There is a screenshot of him in the royal golden armour. (Can't find the link, but it's from the same site as Zevran's screenshot that confirms his preference) --[[User:Selty|Selty]] 02:05, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
:NOOOOOOOOOOOO why don't I ever listen when they say 'spoiler'?! You couldn't mean this, right? http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/dragon_age_origins/313507#show

It's the 81st picture, in case anyone cares to know. I'm pretty sure that's Alistair, anyway. And this: http://www.ag.ru/screenshots/dragon_age_origins/313464#show Alright, that's definitely him. That's the 80th. Well, since we don't know the context we can't be ''sure''... [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] 16:51, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

No. It's confirmed. Sorry guys I was as upset as being spoiled as you are. In any case, it is one ending you can get.--[[User:Selty|Selty]] 01:59, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it's NOT confirmed. http://mage-mahariel.tumblr.com/post/154791831723/what-if
Fiona is alive when this is put out, so how could she be in the Fade?
[[Special:Contributions/100.11.127.114|100.11.127.114]] ([[User talk:100.11.127.114|talk]]) 18:11, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

: It is confirmed. The conversation you're responding to is over 7 years old and this question has been definitely answered further down the page. Mike Laidlaw, Creative Director of the Dragon Age series, and David Gaider, lead writer of the series, have confirmed that Fiona is Alistair's mother. That panel in the comic does not disprove this either since Maric phrased it as a question "... none of them are in the real world any longer, are they?" which indicates he's not certain. [[User:Evamitchelle|Evamitchelle]] ([[User talk:Evamitchelle|talk]]) 18:52, December 22, 2016 (UTC)

== Xander? ==

Why is Maric listed as Xander? Is there something I'm missing? I don't recall Maric ever being referred to as Xander. [[User:Cynnamin|Cynnamin]] 19:39, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

I believe it was used to shield spoilers for the time being before I put up the template. --[[User:Selty|Selty]] 20:36, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

== Alistair and Mages ==

"Making another character fill the tanking roll is usually advisable if the player character is using magic or ranged damage.", is this a correct fact? If so, what is the reason for this? -- [[User:Snfonseka|Snfonseka]] 11:10, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

: I don't see that text in the article, so it must have already been removed. -- {{User:SkyeNiTessine/Sig1}} 20:57, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

It is a good idea for protracted fights. That way the heavily armoured guys will take all the damage while you are left to nuke :D~ Alister and other warriors have access to threat spells like [[Threaten|threaten]] and [[Taunt|taunt]] which will mean monsters will go for them more times that not. You might also consider tanking as a mage yourself by picking the [[Arcane Warrior|arcane warrior]] spec. Then you can use heavy armour by satisfying its strength requirement with your high magic rating. However you probably won't be casting much magic because your [[Fatigue|fatigue]] will be so high that you will burn through your mana too quick. It might also be possible to have a party full of mages and just nuke everything down before it kills you and/or heal through the damage. [[Special:Contributions/59.101.21.220|59.101.21.220]] ([[User talk:59.101.21.220|talk]]) 09:30, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

== Someone please clarify before I edit ==

"Alistair was not Eamon's son, but King Maric's. Maric sheltered the boy to hide his existence from Queen Rowan, Maric's wife, '''despite his feeling of glory''', by advice of his friend Loghain Mac Tir. His father was the last King of Ferelden making him the true heir to the throne '''before his half-brother King Calian'''. "

Can anyone clarify exactly what this paragraph is trying to say? What does it mean by 'despite his feeling of glory'? What glory? Over the birth of a bastard son? If it's unrelated to Alister, why is it even mentioned?

And why is Alister heir before Cailan? Even if he was older-- which he is not-- Cailan is the legitimate son. Alister is heir before Queen Anora, yes, but certainly not Cailan.

I am about to go over that introduction paragraph with an axe, so if you wrote any of those sections, please clarify your meaning or it may vanish mysteriously.

--[[User:Lilkam|Lilkam]] 10:07, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Feelings of glory, my guess would be putting your legitimate son on the throne, despite the fact that Alistair may be an older brother. Legitimate or not, Alistair is the kings first son and therefore the first heir. Which is why if you accept Morrigan's deal after supporting Alistair as king, and try to talk Alistair into it, he will worry about his bastard child ever attempting to claim the throne considering he doesn't trust Morrigan. Hope this helps. --[[User:MiyuEmi|MiyuEmi]] 10:14, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

: Feelings of glory because he put his legitimate son on the throne? Perhaps my understanding of the word "glory" is different from everyone else? It still doesn't make much sense.

: Sorry, but NO, it is patently incorrect to suggest that the elder son is the heir if they are not also a *legitimate* son.  Legitimate children of the king ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS come before bastards, regardless of birth order, this is how it works in the real world and rather obviously how it works in Dragon Age.  Alistair's fear of a bastard heir was NOT over the fact that said heir would be the eldest child but that there would be a bastard heir at all.  Bastard children do not EVER have a **legitimate** claim to a throne unless and until all the legitimate children are dead.  There's a reason why bastard children have historically been regarded with disdain and disgust.  The blood of a bastard isn't considered worthwhile at all until suddenly that blood is the only remaining connection to the previous LEGITIMATE ruler.  The game played upon this very fact: notice that Alistair points out how it was made clear to him time and time again that he was a commoner and a bastard and had no chance at the throne.  Presumably Arl Eamon was at least one of the voices telling him this, and quite possibly the primary one.  Yet Eamon suddenly changed his tune when Alistair turned out to be the last living claimant of Thierin blood. 

:You've raised the issue that Alister is in fact older than Cailin. However, I do not ever recall Alister ever saying he was the elder. In fact, I've always thought Alister was the younger brother, from appearance and attitude. It is, of course possible that he is indeed the elder, but if so, I would like to see a source. Is it from the books? Something the writers wrote on a forum? What makes you believe Alister is older and this isn't just interpolation? If it's purely speculation on both sides, we should keep that vague until it has been proven either way.

:Legitimacy is a big issue for the throne. The legitimate heir is the first heir, that is definite. Illegitimate elder sons are grey areas: and great fodder for rebellions, which is why Alister would worry since his true heir would not be the eldest and therefore in danger from opportunists. But his legitimate heir is the true heir. Alister is definitely NOT before Cailin.

:--[[User:Lilkam|Lilkam]] 06:33, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

It is possible that Alister was born before Cailin. The oppisite could also be true. with out a definite source it will be next to impossible to tell who was actually born first and who was born second. -- [[User:KageZX|KageZX]] 23:31, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

About Alistair and Cailin... The only clue about their age difference I could find that suggests Alistair might be older is in one of those random conversations with other party members. Between Alistair and Whynn or Leliana (I don't remember which one). In short - let's say Whynn asks Alistair if he had a relationship with his brother and he says that he only met him once, while he was still in Redcliff, and Alistair said to him something like: Hello, your majesty.. and Cailin said: Wow, swords! (or something like that) and ran off. So, in that case, it could be, that Cailin was a little boy, easily distracted with shinny weapons, and Alistair was in fact few years older. But you never know with those two, because let's face it, they are both pretty childish. :)

The conversation is between Alistair and Wynne. --[[User:Vehlr|Vehlr]] 17:17, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

According to the timelines in the two novels, ''Stolen Throne'' and ''The Calling'', Cailin is the elder brother (having been revealed in the epilogue of the first novel as Maric's only son). The second novel produces a second son. [[User:Jaggedbubbles|Jaggedbubbles]] 10:22, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Just so it's been said, the "feeling of glory" should obviously be changed to "sense of honor" or something along those lines. [[Special:Contributions/84.208.208.230|84.208.208.230]] 00:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

"The Calling" claims that Queen Rowan was dead by the time MAric went back into the deep roads- one of the resons he agreeed. Cailin was a youngish child (not sure how old). Alistair is the younger son, Maric hid him beause he was illegitamate, his mother was an elf, a grey warden and a mage and he did not want to demean the late queen - by suddenly appearing with a bastard son- even well after her death.   Fiona was also dying so it amy have been better that way I think also he wanted Alistair to have a non royal upbringing  with non other the pain of duty he had.  
Just cos Cailin said "cool swords" doesnt mean he was a small child.  tbh he would have probably said something like that if he was 30! A small child can be trained to be polite- especially if he had been raised in Eamons house.
Bare in mind DAO and Calling may not be entirely consistent.. as Alistair tells you his mother was a seving girl.
I would assume Cailin is probably approaching 30 by the time of Ostagar so alistair is probably early to mid 20s.  From memory Cailin wasnt born until after Maric had been back on the throne for some years. it referes to rowan finally giving Maric an heir after a number of years. I cant remeber how old maric wads but in Stolen throne he is  young- maybe 18 or so, so he could have been in his 30s at least by the time Cailin was born.  [[User:Diidii|Diidii]] ([[User talk:Diidii|talk]]) 16:26, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

== Alistair Concept Art - ==

I am dubious about that concept art. It isn't shown in my collector's edition art book as being Alistair - it's shown as a random 'warrior' /pc model.




Alistair's only illustration is a screen shot on Alistair's page.All the other characters have an illustration on their page except him, in fact.

:It's on the official website, under his character page. That's him, alright. [[Special:Contributions/71.164.115.214|71.164.115.214]] 19:15, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

== Hardening Personality ==

Right can someone explain this to me?, I'm curious as to how one hardens Alistair's personality is this through dialogue that would make you lose approval or can you still gain from it? because I've seen nothing that would suggest he'll walk away feeling improved? less-manly? [[User:Zf6hellion|Zf6hellion]] 02:29, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
:Essentially after you go talk to Goldana with him, you have the option to tell him that "Everyone looks out for themselves. You should learn that." and he'll agree, then not want to talk right away. If you go talk to him later, essentially if you say anything but "That's not what I meant. Don't do that!" his personality will be hardened. It doesn't change him much, but he'll be more accepting of becoming King, and allow him to accept a threesome with Isabella. --[[User:Emynii|Emynii]] 02:56, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
Right... now I have to go and try that... and it's not what you think! (sort of) [[User:Zf6hellion|Zf6hellion]] 03:09, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

::Is it possible to spare Loghain and have Alistair become the king after hardening his personality? Has anyone been able to achieve this? [[User:Johnnyriot999|Johnnyriot999]] 04:17, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
:::It is. After hardening his personality I was able to persuade him to marry Anora and become king, but he always leaves the party if Loghain is allowed to live. [[User:Loleil|Loleil]] 04:23, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

I've replaced the word alter with '''harden''' regarding Alistair's personality change at the end of his personal quest. In fact, "harden" and "hardening" are in such common use throughout this wiki, especially in the epilogue, that the term very badly needs its own subsection that can be hotlinked from all those other pages. --[[User:Phiont|Phiont]] 12:56, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

== Issue with continuity? Anora as queen but Alistair referenced as king? ==

I placed Anora on the throne without anyone ruling with her. Yet in every dialogue afterwords Alistair continues to speak as though I nominated him to be king. He insisted on slaying the archdemon because as king it was his responsibilities. This has happened before in previous runthroughs. Is this a known bug or just something with my game?--[[User:Emynii|Emynii]] 01:54, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
:I hope it's a known bug and they fix it soon, because the same thing happened to me! [[User:Loleil|Loleil]] 05:00, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
::Well, as much as it stinks for that issue, I'm glad other people are having it. I was worried I had some corrupted game files :/--[[User:Emynii|Emynii]] 05:26, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
There is currently a mod available on the bioware social site for the PC that addresses some of the continuity issues with Alistair being referenced as king after Landsmeet when he hasn't been nominated for the kingship. I believe it's called Alistair Dialog Patch, or something similar. It can be found under the Projects. I personally haven't finished a game yet with it installed, but so far seems very well done.[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 10:05, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

== Alistair Family relations ==

--Here Lay Spoilers--
I have read both books that are pre DA:O. From my understanding, Alistair is born at the end of the 2nd book (The Calling) at which point in time Cailan is already 9 years old. Also, despite the fact that during the game they repeatedly said his mother was a servant at Arl Eamon's castle, you find out differently in the book. His mother was a Grey Warden Elf Mage named Fiona, his father was indeed King Maric. At the end of The Calling, Fiona asks Maric to raise him as a normal human, away from royalty. She wished for him to have a happy life, uncomplicated by the whole Grey Warden/Elf/King parentage. At this point in time, Queen Rowan had already been dead for a few years. It is most likely that the servant girl mother was made up to hide his mother's true identity from him. I'm not saying that Goldanna's mother didn't die at Eamon's castle in child birth, just that it was convenient for a cover story for Alistair to be told. Fiona is possably still alive at Grey Warden headquarters, since it thought that her..experiences..in The Calling might prevent her from having to go through it again. Also, Duncan knew who Alistair's parents were. Had, in fact, traveled with them in The Calling. He promised the 2 of them that he would 'watch over' the baby and bring them news about it when he could. It most likely that he purposely conscripted Alistair to get him away from the Chantry as part of his 'watching over' duties.

This is of course all assuming that the baby in the last few pages of The Calling is indeed Alistair. If it is not, then there is yet another brother out there somewhere.
[[Special:Contributions/129.198.241.62|129.198.241.62]] 08:07, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Well someone would have to pry answers from BioWare then eh? heh heh, but as far as this goes it does make me curious for an answer to this case, a third sibling would be rather funny (well to me) or his mother being Fiona would cast some nice lights in the dark if you know what I mean - regardless unless there's a Q&A sometime soon we'll have to look to Dragon Age 2's release for more details.

I had thought of this as well. If so, then Goldanna's claim that the baby died in childbirth with her mother was true and Alistair was not actually her brother. He never says where that information came from. The secret would have died with Duncan since any other character that would have known doesn't exist in the game.--[[User:Cynicalitalian|Cynicalitalian]] 14:54, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Arl Eamon? Bann Teigan? Shouldn't they know whose child it was that lived in their castle for 10 years? What could be the purpose of slandering Maric as an adulterer, when Rowan was already dead when Alistair was born? --[[Special:Contributions/84.156.91.214|84.156.91.214]] 23:28, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

I sort of asumed Alistair ''thought'' that his mother was a servent girl, when Fiona was the actual mother. [[User:Coroxn|Coroxn]] 16:32, January 8, 2010 (UTC)




The issue isn't who his father was. It was Maric. Maric was an adulterer. In a sense. (My personal opinion, not trying to start any fights. Even if Rowan was dead at time of conception, it's not like he had moved on in a marriage.) As Coroxn pointed out, Alistair ''thought'' his mother was a servant girl. It quite possable that Maric either a. didn't tell Teigan and Eamon who the mother was, or b. swore them to secrecy if he did tell them. For all we know, Fiona herself (if she's still alive) is the only one who knows the truth. Although, she may not know what became of her child if Duncan didn't fill her in on her child's name/location. If she is, I can't imagine that she's to happy about her child (if it's Alistair) being damned by his blood into having exactly the life she didn't want for him.

[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 13:39, January 19, 2010 (UTC)



This paragraph doesn't make much sense to me:

''"It is also a great possibility that the child is not Alistair, as Alistair's half sister Goldanna, who shares his same mother, was also human in appearance. Since Fiona was an elf, this would mean that Goldanna's father was also a human. Goldanna blames Alistair for her mother's death, implying that her mother died in childbirth, which Fiona clearly did not. Furthermore, upon asking Loghain why Maric did not recognize Alistair, he claims it was for "Rowan's honor," which would mean that Alistair was born before Rowan died, something that Fiona's child was not, making it a strong possibility that the child of Maric and Fiona is Alistair's younger half-sibling. "''



This theory does not take into account that Fiona was a Mage Grey Warden, not a serving girl in the castle (huge difference in rank, even being an elf and a mage). As such, she was obviously not Goldanna's mother. What's more likely is that the serving girl died in childbirth with another child and Alistair was passed off as that child. Goldanna says that they told her the baby died (which it likely did), providing an easy excuse for Alistair's appearance. As to Rowan's honor, you can still honor the memory of someone who has passed on. It's not proof that Alistair was born before Rowan died. [[User:Vavasor|Vavasor]] 17:38, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Am I the only one in favour of dropping the Fiona bit from the article altogether? I mean, I do believe Fiona was Alistair's mother but it is just speculation on my part. Moreover, the speculation also depends on knowing Maric's personality, which you only gather from the books. The books makes it clear that Maric didn't go around chasing skirt. In fact, Rowan makes a point of emphasising that in The Stolen Throne. So the "Alistair's mother couldn't be some serving girl" is dependent on a number of things and it is not negated by the fact that Alistair "thinks" Goldanna is his sister. But the problem remains that it is just speculation. So maybe it would be better to just drop it. [[User:Tinni|<span style="color: #DA70D6;">'''Tinni'''</span>]] [[w:c:Bleach:User talk:Tinni|<span style="font-size:95%; font-family: courier new; color: #DA70D6">(Talk)</span>]] 18:00, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

: Actually, the speculation that Alistair is Fiona's son is very sound. Fiona wanted Maric to make sure that her child would be raised as a child of pure human origin. When Alistair meets Goldanna in Denerim, Goldanna claims that she had been told Alistair was dead. It is very likely that either Maric or Arl Eamon, acting at Maric's behest picked a human maid who recently died in childbirth to create an 'origin story' for Alistair, giving him the identity of the child who died with his mother. Why did Loghain say that Maric's refused to recognize Alistair for "Rowan's honor"? In Dragon Age: The Calling Fiona made it clear that she wanted Maric not to tell the child anything about his parents. ("Tell him nothing. Let him think his mother human, and dead"). On the last page, Maric contemplates the implications of recognizing the child: "If he recognized the boy and raised him in the palace, he would be subject to constant politics and struggles. He would be seen as competition for Cailan." (Quoted from 'Dragon Age: The Calling'). Maric knew that Loghain loved Rowan, and instead of presenting some convoluted political reasoning to him, he probably drove his point home by appealing to Loghain's feelings for Rowan. There is one more argument that augments even more the likelihood of Alistair's being Fiona's child. On the same page, Duncan offers to watch over the child, and bring news to Maric from time to time, and it fits in nicely with the fact that, in Alistair's words, Duncan was always protective of him, even to the point of keeping him away from the battle at Ostagar by sending him (and the player) on what seemed to be then a fairly straightforward mission (lighting the beacon). [[User:Desyndra|Desyndra]] 08:19, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
::I am not arguing the theory is sound. I just think they way it is presented in the article is just stupid. It mentions the Fiona theory and the non-Fiona theory and it just... that's why I am saying let's just drop it and go with "Alistair things his mother was a human maid and the Goldanna is his half-sister". [[User:Tinni|<span style="color: #DA70D6;">'''Tinni'''</span>]] [[w:c:Bleach:User talk:Tinni|<span style="font-size:95%; font-family: courier new; color: #DA70D6">(Talk)</span>]] 16:40, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Haven't read any of the books (yet) but would just like to say that Alastair is very large for a possible part-elf . . .

:Elvish blood is recessive in Dragon Age. Meaning that half-elves are completely human. In the book Fiona hands Maric a completely human baby and explains that if humans and elves interbreed too much then elves would simply die out. In short, Alistair's physical appearance is no indication of his mother's race. [[User:Tinni|<span style="color: #DA70D6;">'''Tinni'''</span>]] [[w:c:Bleach:User talk:Tinni|<span style="font-size:95%; font-family: courier new; color: #DA70D6">(Talk)</span>]] 14:08, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Tinni, that would explain a lot. It is just that elves are the size of children and I find it very distasteful to think of human/elven bonding - unless there is a huge difference in anatomy there would be a lot of pain for the female elf. I usually play as an elf and have only romanced Alastair when playing as a human. Also, recessive blood does not make a half-elf completely human - it merely gives them the appearance of being human. The idea of human and elves interbreeding and the elves dying out is also, I think, incorrect. With recessive genes, two parents with the elven recessive gene would produce an elf not a human. [[User:Zevran&#39;s girl|Zevran&#39;s girl]] 10:04, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

:Are we talking about Dragon Age or some other fantasy world? Last I looked, elves were not the size of children in Dragon Age. So really, what rubbish are you sprouting! In addition, my information comes "The Calling". It is therefore, lore of Dragon Age as established by the books. And in the book an elf explains that elf + human = human! [[User:Tinni|<span style="color: #DA70D6;">'''Tinni'''</span>]] [[w:c:Bleach:User talk:Tinni|<span style="font-size:95%; font-family: courier new; color: #DA70D6">(Talk)</span>]] 16:40, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
OK, so I exaggerated when I said elves were the size of children, but they are still smaller with lighter bone structure than humans. However, my genetic knowledge is not rubbish, so I am actually correct when I say that human/elf mating would not make the elves die out - it could actually lead to an increase in the elven population. Unless, of course, it resulted in the offspring being "mules" and thus unable to reproduce. Is this what was meant? That is, however, not the same as recessive. But recessive genes in genetics is fact and does not belong to any fantasy world lore (even if it sounds as though it should). [[User:Zevran&#39;s girl|Zevran&#39;s girl]] 14:09, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

:This is not a genetics discussion. It is a lore discussion. I am telling you what it says in "The Calling". You have a problem with it, take it up with David Gaiden and tell him he's genetics knowledge sucks. I quote,

[[Maric]]: "He's human!" (referring to his baby by [[Fiona]], an elven mage of Orlais"

Fiona: "That's why we stay together in the alienages, mostly. The children of humans and elves are human. If we interbred, we would die out."

The above conversation is in the "The Calling" page 442, so you can look it up for yourself. Also you didn't exaggerate, you down right got it wrong! Elves and humans are physically largely proportional. Size of children? Dwarves are the size of children! Elves are by an large proportional to humans and there is zero evidence that sexual intercourse between them causes discomfort to elven women. Just admit that you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about and move on. This discussion is getting tiresome since you aren't arguing Dragon Age lore but based on your pre-conceived notions on the topic. Well, official Dragon Age lore as established by the head writer of Bioware says elf + human = humans, and human and elves interbreeding will lead to elves dying out. Accept it or go complain to David Gaiden. [[User:Tinni|<span style="color: #DA70D6;">'''Tinni'''</span>]] [[w:c:Bleach:User talk:Tinni|<span style="font-size:95%; font-family: courier new; color: #DA70D6">(Talk)</span>]] 16:16, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Pwnage party.

== Fanclub links ==

There are a bunch of links to fanclubs at the bottom of the article. I don't really think they are appropriate. Should we delete them?--[[User:Selty|Selty]] 01:22, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
:Maybe instead of the current section we make one for fan run websites. I don't see how letting others know about fansites is taking away from the integrity of the site. Any site with "adult content" is met with a warning right away and everything I saw was under cuts to prevent any sort of missconduct. If neccicary, I say a warning that wiki has no control over the content of these fansites and that users visit them at their own discresion should be supplied. --[[User:Emynii|Emynii]] 01:31, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
:: I don't think links to fanclub is inappropriate. Wikipedia lets high profile user generated sites to link from articles. As long as the fanclubs "major" then I'm all for it. --[[User:Tierrie|Tierrie]] 01:55, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

:Alright, then. I wasn't worried about the adult content, just of a whole lot of the same sites being linked. Never mind, then.--[[User:Selty|Selty]] 02:00, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
::We'll put a warning that some of the sites may contain content of a sensitive nature. --[[User:Emynii|Emynii]] 02:02, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

== Alistair has something against Dwarves? ==

On my current play through, I'm playing a female dwarf noble. I so totally adore Alistair that I just can't help romancing him regardless of what I'm playing. Much to my dismay, this time after the 'tent' action, instead of confessing his love me, he simply said 'thank you'. (cry) All response options were the same, he had already given me a rose and was at 100 approval raiting. Is this just a thing against dwarfs, or did I jump the gun a bit? I have already recruited Wynne, Zevran, and Oghren, but haven't done the Ashes quest yet to save Eamon or the quest to see Goldanna (I so don't want to 'harden' him. Nooo must keep the goofy lovable Alistair!) Anyone else notice this on a dwarf, or have I not advanced in overall plot enough yet? Thanks!

[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 10:32, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

:I've always gotten the overly romantic Alistair, it's part of his charm), though admittedly I almost always romance Zevran. Have you given him his mother's Amulet yet? I usually never get down to tent business until I've gotten at least one of the major plot gifts for the companion I'm romancing and things work out really well. I don't know if the game keeps track of things like this prior to romance, but you know this already so sorry, I know that this is a major flirtation point for him as you're able to tell him you remembered because he's special to you. You'd best harden him though or Alistair will leave you if you support him for King. Unless you plan on supporting Anora. --[[User:MiyuEmi|MiyuEmi]] 11:37, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I've given him the amulet. I'm just really confused over the whole 'Thank you, I didn't know I could feel that way' vs the 'Did I tell you that I love you? I did, well it won't hurt you to hear it again'. Just wondering if it has something to do with being a dwarf or if I need to save Eamon before he'll 'love' me after visiting my tent.
[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 11:44, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

::Huh. I wonder if he does. Odd since all hints to his mother being a serving girl in the castle make it seem as though his own mother is an elf. Who knows. That would be a shame though. I usually romance him as a human noble, so I'll see if it's the same for me as for you now as an elven mage. I wonder if it's just an I know I can't marry you if I become king thing. Did he make his confession to you that's he's an heir? --[[User:MiyuEmi|MiyuEmi]] 11:51, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, he has. When I played through as an elf (twice, once as a mage, once as a warrior) he still 'I love you' line after 'tenting' him. That's why I'm wondering if it's just dwarves he has something against?  
[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 11:57, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

He will only tell you he loves you if you have visited his sister and he's in love when he finally goes to your tent.

You have to have completed his personal quest for him and have a very high approval rating with him for Alistair to tell you he loves you. A good way to know if he will say it or not once you adjourn to his tent is to complete the scene with Goldanna. After he talks to you outside of her house, talk to him again. He will thank you for taking him to see his sister. If he tells you he loves you then, he'll tell you again after going to his tent. If he merely says that you are a true friend, he will say the bit about no one ever making him feel this way. I have played as a dwarf, and he did tell my character he loved her. Hope this helps. Lyricangell 19:25, December 23, 2009 (UTC)


Thank you all for the help. It was the fact that I hadn't taken him to see Goldanna yet that was holding him back. Grrr...darn not-sister sisters anyway!
[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 07:38, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

Well i have to say that he has nothing against dwarves because he has told my female dwarf on 2 separate occasions that he loved her. The 1st occasion was in the magi tower and the 2nd occasion was right after inviting him to my tent. I should also note i'm using a character relationship converstation guide so that's what has helped me. Oh also did not do his side quest yet so you do not have to complete that to get him to say i love you just fyi [[User:Leaza|Leaza]] 10:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)  

:  YES, you DO have to complete his personal quest to have him tell you he loves you AFTER HAVING SEX FOR THE FIRST TIME.  The question is not whether he'll tell you he loves you at all, but whether he'll say that to you in after your initial sexual encounter.  If you haven't completed his personal quest, he won't say it, no.

==Impossible outcome?==

"If Loghain is conscripted into the Grey Wardens, Alistair leaves Ferelden and becomes a wandering drunkard. (Unless of course you harden his personality during his personal quest, and then subsequently convince him and Anora to marry - in which case he will still choose to become King but will no longer directly support you in your efforts against the Blight.)"

I spent a lot of time trying to get loghain to live and convince the two to marry, but it looks like alistair always leaves if loghain is spared. Has anyone gotten Anora and Alistair on the throne AND let loghain survive the landsmeet and if so how? --[[Special:Contributions/71.112.18.247|71.112.18.247]] 15:35, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


Alistair's personality must be hardened by doing his personal quest(right after you exit Goldanna's house tell him that everyone is out for themselves). You must also convince Anora to marry him when you get to talk to her in Eamon's estate. Also make sure NOT to let him duel Loghain at the Landsmeet because he will kill him. [[User:BeerMage|BeerMage]] 21:24, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

== Confused ==

"Maric sheltered the boy to hide his existence from Queen Rowan, Maric's wife, on the advice of his friend Loghain Mac Tir."

This is impossible, as Maric didn't even meet Alistair's mother until after Rowan's death. Also, Cailan is alive before they met as well, so Alistair is definitely younger than him. This is all in "The Calling".

I agree. This is the only part that has me not ''entirely'' sure that Fiona is Alistair's mother. Alistair's codex in the game says "Maric sheltered the boy to hide his existence from Queen Rowan, Maric's wife, on the advice of his friend Loghain Mac Tir." But in 'The Calling' Rowan was already dead, and had been for years, when Fiona gave birth to her son. I don't know if this was just a simple mistake or if there's a possible explanation I haven't thought of yet. Or if Alistair simply is not Fiona's son, though I really think he's supposed to be the son mentioned at the end of the book. Any one else have any thoughts? [[User:Lyricangell|Lyricangell]] 19:08, December 23, 2009 (UTC)lyricangell
*Word of God has it that the Codex can be wrong--it is what your character perceives to be true, not what is necessarily the fact. I'll also point out that Loghain relationship with Maric was strained at this point in time--he may have not told Loghain he sired a bastard with an elven Grey Warden mage. [[Special:Contributions/71.164.125.73|71.164.125.73]] 19:42, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

That is very true, perception is reality, or so the saying goes. But if this is the case, wouldn't that mean that Alistair is unaware of how old he really is? Surely he knows when the queen of Ferelden passed on, and if he thinks he was born before she died, but was really born after... Anyway the only other issue I have is that if Fiona is Alistair's mother, it would put Alistair in the age range of 15 to 18, give or take. I know that in the setting of this game, people are a lot younger when they take on 'adult' responsibilities, and I can see Alistair possibly being 18, but younger than that? I don't know. I honestly would have pegged him as being in his early to mid-twenties, myself... Regardless, thanks to whoever it was that responded so quickly! Lyricangell 19:54, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

It's doubtful that Alistair is meant to be any younger than mid-twenties, as you can tease him about still being a virgin "and you are how old?" and he replies something back about never having the opportunity between the chantry and the grey wardens. If he was 16 it would hardly be a joke that he had never had sex. If there is supposed to be 9 years between Cailin and Alistair I would say possibly 33 and 24, but not much younger. I think it's more likely that there is some discrepancy between the books and the game. It may be valuable for this wiki to differentiate between lore in the game and lore in the novels. [[User:Time4Tiddy|Time4Tiddy]] 21:25, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, Tiddy! And I'm also with you on Alistair being around 24, that's exactly the general age I pictured him as... Lyricangell 05:20, December 24, 2009 (UTC)lyricangell


I'm not so sure about that. Considering that the battle at River Dane took place right around Dragon year 0 (it had just been named) and Cailin had obviously not been born yet at that point in time, if Alistair is the child at the end of 'The Calling', that would put Cailin at 9 years old minimum (I say minimum because Cailin was already 9 at the begining of the book, most likely 10 when the child is born due to length of pregnancy) before he was born and the game starts Dragon year 30, that would put Alistair at most 20 years old. (I'm really tired right now and can't recall where I saw the time line placing the game at Dragon year 30, but will update/edit when I'm more awake and have found it again.)
[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 07:30, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

I'm putting the age range where I am because the Orlesian empire was finally run out of Fereldon 30 years before the game. And the book 'The Calling' takes place 14 years after the Orlesians were beat. And Fiona's babe was born nearly a year after... Lyricangell 16:01, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

All those inconsistencies base on the assumption that Alistair is Fiona's child, and Maric was faithful to Rowan. Cailan is 26. If Alistair's mother was a distraction while Rowan was pregnant, he would be about a year younger than Cailan, and everything ingame would fit perfectly.--[[Special:Contributions/84.156.126.159|84.156.126.159]] 12:47, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

True. But that would mean that 1. Maric was a ... lamppost licker. And 2. that there was another brother out there somewhere with very similar circumstances to Alistair. (dead "human" mother, king father, raised away from everyone, Duncan knew about him.) On the one hand that would make this truely twisted and soap opra-y. On the other, yes it would clear up the dates/age confusion. I just think it's a little to coincidental for there to be a 3rd son of Maric.
[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 12:34, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Fiona's child is 16 yars old now. The comments from female PC and Leliana on Alistair's experience in lamppost licking wouldn't make much sense if he actually were expected to be an inexperienced teenager.--[[Special:Contributions/84.156.125.200|84.156.125.200]] 12:50, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Oh,I don't know.Some people are naturally talented. ;)


According to what are you basing Alistair's experience..or lack of..on him being over 16? Todays American standard? News for you, I know 16 year olds that already have children. Tidbit - Marriagable age for children in the Islam religion is 9 for girls, 15 for boys. Judaism - 12 for girls, 13 for boys. Scotland - 16 for both. And this is present day. I hesitate to wonder what age sex/marriages started happening in earlier centuries. Back to the point. Being 16 does not automatically make you innocent or a virgin. Also, if you are to believe Alistair, he's been in the Chantry's care for such a long time, and hasn't had the opportunity to lick many lampposts anyway.
[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 05:04, January 6, 2010 (UTC)


Just because I've recently been checking this, I'll throw in that whilst 'The Calling' takes place 14 years after Maric et al went into the Deep Roads, it's 11 years after the Orlesians are finally beaten (these are both confirmed in the early chapters of [[Dragon Age: The Calling]]). Taking River Dane in 8:99 as the end of the occupation (I think 8:99 has been confirmed by David Gaider but don't have the ref, sorry), this puts the action of The Calling at around 9:10 Dragon, which gels with the ingame info that the Grey Wardens were allowed back into Ferelden by Maric 20 years ago (before the "present" day of around 9:30). This would make Fiona & Maric's son - whoever he is - 19/20-ish at the start of Dragon Age: Origins. [[User:Zoev|Zoev]] 14:46, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


It's a bit beside the point, but how did lamp post licking emerge as a euphemism for oral sex? Alistair's line, "Have'' you ''ever licked a lamp post in winter?" refers to the fact that if you lick frozen metal your tongue will stick to it. It's not a sly way of asking the female Warden if she's a virgin. [[User:Alfaerin|Alfaerin]] 15:10, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


I think that sometimes its the way something that is said that makes it a euphemism rather than the words themselves. That scene had me laughing so hard. [[User:Quietscribe|Quietscribe]] 15:12, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


I highly doubt Alistair meant it that way. He knew very well the female Warden was trying to talk about sex and so he deflected the question with humor to hide his nervousness. As he says, he's never before had the "pleasure." [[User:Alfaerin|Alfaerin]] 14:47, January 16, 2010 (UTC)



It should be said that if you talk to Loghain about Alistair he will say that Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born and that this was the only reason he didn't officially recognize Alistair as his son. Considering Loghain was walking to his death and both Maric and Rowan were long dead, I doubt he'd lie.[[Special:Contributions/84.208.208.230|84.208.208.230]] 00:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. I have not whitnessed this conversation with Loghain, but then again I can barely stand the man so have only recruited him to get the achievment. If this is true, we either have a continuity issue or a 3rd son. Soap Opera anyone?[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 13:11, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

== Speculating on Alistair's Parents ==

I've had to remove speculation on Alistair's mother a couple of time so I want to make it clear why. If you wanted to argue that Fiona is Alistair's mother you could make a compelling case, however you could not prove it. There is no hard evidence and the developers have been deliberately vague. I too think that it is likely, but it is speculation. So, until there is a definitive answer it does not belong on the page. [[User:Loleil|Loleil]] 08:09, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
:Agree there's no place for speculation, but I've just spotted another edit putting in the claim that Fiona is Alistair's mother. Perhaps it's worth at least noting that Fiona and Maric do have a son on this page, and that it's not impossible that it's Alistair. May stop edits from folk who don't realise that this has already been done to death? I've made some changes to the edit I noticed making the over-bold claim that [[Dragon Age: The Calling]] says Fiona ''is'' Alistair's mother but have left some info in. Please revert away if you think even this is too much. --[[User:Zoev|Zoev]] 19:29, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
::I actually like the edit you've made Zoev, positioning it as a viable alternate theory rather than THE TRUTH seems to the best way to go as the other alternatives at this point seem to be waging a never ending revert war or locking the page, which would be a shame. [[User:Loleil|Loleil]] 23:34, January 6, 2010 (UTC)
:::Thanks, but I already think I may have been wrong! I notice that someone has now added the text "Fiona being his mother would also explain Alistair's fascination with magic, his mother being a mage." to what I'd put in. Now in my view, whilst it might make his fascination with magic poignant, it's hard to see how it could ''explain'' it. I've left the text as I don't want to get embroiled in that revert war you mentioned, but I now suspect that having even a snippet of text on this subject will just natrally lead people to speculate further. I formally throw in the towel on this one and leave it to the admin experts! --[[User:Zoev|Zoev]] 12:12, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

== Alasdair marriage non-hardened ==

I was wondering if anyone else other than myself has had problems getting married to Anora when not hardened on the PS3. I tried as many ways I could think of to get him to marry Anora. He agreed to it before we went to the Landsmeet, but when there they refused consistantly. He was very 'NO' to letting Logain live, and his attitude meant that Anora refused to marry someone as pig-headed and childish as him in his attitude, perhaps because it reminded her too much of her previous husband, or because she feared she would not be able to control his decisions as much as she had the last husband. But yeah, I was unable to get them to agree no matter what I did. If I went with Alistair's decision to kill Logain, even if I did it myself, they refuse to marry. How did others get them to marry if Alasdair is unhardened? I had a full coercion rating. --[[User:Quietscribe|Quietscribe]] 00:17, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


I don't believe it's possible to have them marry if Alistair isn't hardened. [[User:Alfaerin|Alfaerin]] 14:58, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

:On the PC version (with patch 1.02) I had no trouble in making Anora and Alistair marry. It might be the patches, the Coercion skill, or who strikes the blow that determines the outcome (I also don't really know what's the difference between hardened and unhardened - so I might be missing something). --[[User:Silverstrike|silverstrike]] 15:26, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

:
: "Hardening" characters changes their responses to certain events, and is done during their personal quests by selecting a particular conversation choice afterwards. In general, it makes the character's morals more flexible and pragmatic. Whether Alistair is hardened or not plays a large role in how he'll react in the Landsmeet. [[User:Alfaerin|Alfaerin]] 16:01, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
:: You can't suggest letting Loghain live. And it needs to be you who slices off his head. Then Alistair will agree to letting Anora marry him--oh, and I think you need to suggest the marriage beforehand to Anora and have Alistair agree. [[Special:Contributions/71.164.115.214|71.164.115.214]] 19:19, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
I had no problems getting him to marry Anora, unhardened on the PS3. As stated above, don't even consider letting Loghain live and make sure you bring up the idea to them both beforehand. Don't let Alistair give the killing blow, or she will decline. Be warned, if you are in a romance with Alistair, he will break it off with you after the Landsmeet.[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 13:45, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

== IS THERE A PATCH/CODE THAT MAKES ALISTAIR "HARDENED"? ==

Unfortunatelly I was playing "DAO" without reading this forum and here I am (in trouble:))

Could You tell me if there is a possibility to make Alistair "hardened" long after endig his personal quest?

I mean to go back to his personal quest, change my choices but NOT loose all the game progress I've made since then.

A cheat o code perhaps?



For PC, there is a mod on dragon age nexus called metagame items. It includes a 'gift' you can give to anyone to trigger them as being hardened (http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13).[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 12:06, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

== Hardening ==

The line that hardens Alistair is 
"No you have to do as I say" -> "I don't have to do it, I want to. What you said made sense. I should have done this a long time ago."
or
"No, you understood just fine."/"Its about time I say"/"So long as you listen to me, it sounds fine." -> "Then from this point on, I'll be looking out for myself more. I should have done this a long time ago." --{{User:Tierrie/Sig}} 08:03, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

:Not true. All you need to say is "Everyone is out for themselves. You need to learn that." You can say just about anything after that, so long as you don't go "No, that's not what I meant!" when he says he wants to look out for himself. The dialog right after Goldanna's should indicate whether you successfully "hardened" him. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] 23:06, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

== Romance question ==



My female noble has a relation with Alistair and I've hardened him but I really don't want him to marry Anora so can he still stay with my warden so is there a way to keep him in my party and with my girl? [[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 09:42, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Uh yes, with high enough persuasion you can persuade him to be king, persuade the council that you will rule beside him, and by executing Loghain and convincing him to be a part of morrigans ritual (he won't like that but you have hardened him somewhat) you insure you both survive and remain together. An alternate path would be to allow Anora to be queen and again perform the ritual with morrigan. [[User:Lufos|Lufos]] 09:55, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

FYI, Alistair does NOT have to be hardened to go through with Morrigan's dark ritual, as you imply here.  As long as you have sufficient persuasion skill, he'll agree to it, hardened or not.  Hell, he can even be made to agree to it if he doesn't actually like you, the Warden, which I still find just bizarre.

::Thank you very much [[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 10:16, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
::
::I have another problem: Alistair asked to spend the night with my human noble and I accepted but when she went to kiss him it got a weird glitch: their bodies became 'merged' and he acted like he was warming his hands on the fire while she was kissing the air. It hasn't effected the game in anyway. Has this happened to anyone else. [[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 13:09, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, this happens to everyone. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] 10:59, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

== Why is Anora allowed to live after the defeat of the Arch Demon? ==

My warden and Alistair have a relationship. Love is there as well as devotion. Anora should have been dealt the same fate as her Evil father Logain, the two work together through lies and deceptions. My Warden served as the new Queen along side Alistair as King. Executing Anora would have been so nice.. People are too rough on the character Alistair... Also it would have been a great addition to the ending to see the Warden meet the crowds and to see the lavish Marrige of Eliisa and Alistair and the celebrations afterwards..

--

Well, Alistair unhardened makes it fairly clear that he doesn't want to kill Anora. Hardened he doesn't say outright to execute her either. This isn't really the place to ask these kind of questions. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] 23:12, March 12, 2010 (UTC)



I would have to agree. It always felt as if the lack of an appropriate resolution with Anora was a hanging thread. One of many things that didn't get resolved in the OC. Anora still being referenced as Queen while a Fem Noble that chose to marry Alistair being referenced as princess consort seemed insulting. Awakening did next to nothing to tie up this thread, imho. Yes, Alistair called you his wife, but I don't recall anyone calling you Queen, so Anora must still be alive and acting as queen. If anything, I felt Awakening only created more loose threads that didn't get resolved.[[User:Pvpgirl|Pvpgirl]] 12:39, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

:That's a known bug, that Queen Anora reference--it's supposed to only show up in the Mistress ending, where your convince Alistair to keep you without being Cousland. I don't know why they refer to you as Princess-Consort in the epilogue--everywhere else you're referred to as "Queen"--even Alistair introduces you in the Post-Coronation ceremony as the woman who "will soon be" the Queen. You are actually more noble than Anora, who was a teyrn's daughter. It seems to go that your ''are'' queen, save for the (several) bugs in the epilogue. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] 18:13, March 30, 2010

:It's not being a teyrn's daughter that makes you more noble; the female Cousland is also a teyrn's daughter, and teyrns are second only to the King in nobility.

:It's the fact that Loghain was a commoner raised to a teyrn, while your family was not (although going far enough back they were originally guards for the prior teyrnir).

:That bug really annoys me. I'm like HEY NOW. I'm Queen :) [[User:Vavasor|Vavasor]] 17:25, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh...yes...-///- That was a boo-boo. I did mean to say that she was the daughter of the commoner (two, actually, her mother was a cabinet maker's daughter), while you have a pedigree that stretches back before the Theirin line. Although it just occured to me--the "mistress" Queen Anora was discomforted ending doesn't show up because he's king...it shows up if, when Alistair asks you where you'll be headed, you say you'll be staying. It can be taken in both ways--Anora is uncomfortable because her husband's mistress is brazenly running around, or because Alistair (former rightful king) is still hanging out around the palace. To further my point, if you choose to rejoin the Wardens or travel and are still with Alistair when he's king, the epilogue card will say he went wherever you went (the Warden one even says he was relieved to be away from court to rebuild the Wardens). Like I said, ''tons'' of bugs. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] 12:33, April 19, 2010
 (UTC)

Yeah! I mean, Anora said 'You've only brought a pause to the civil war' surely it would have been in everybodie's best interest to kill her--[[User:Alessaie|With all due respect,The younger, better looking female version of Gandalf.]] ([[User talk:Alessaie|talk]]) 02:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

=='''Possible source of inspiration for his name'''==


I decided to replay Mass Effect recently, and whilst contemplating the amazing ending and idly staring at the credits, I noticed that there was a voice actor named "Alastair Duncan". [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0241885/ Here is his imdb page.] I thought that might be interesting.

'''[[Special:Contributions/89.151.200.87|89.151.200.87]] 20:07, March 16, 2010 (UTC)'''

:Possibly, but I think that's more of a cute coincidence--more than likely, the name came from Alistair McNally, the Director of Arts and Animations for Dragon Age: Origins. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] 16:16, March 29, 2010 (UTC)


:My personal suspicion is that the name Alistair is fantasty-appropriate version of the name Alexander, since the character is supposedly inspired by Xander Harris.[[User:Jancola c|Jancola c]] 21:15, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

:"Alistair" is the Gaelic (Scots, I think?) version of the name "Alexander." You're right, it would fit with Xander Harris! (Long live Buffy.)

== Requesting Advice for Hardened Alistair Outcome ==
-Minor spoilers-

I've played through on a non-noble with a hardened Alistair to get the outcome where he would rule alone. At the landsmeet, after executing Loghain, I wasn't even given the option of choosing between Alistair and Anora, he stepped right up and took the kingship as soon as Eamon offered it to him.

This leaves me a bit concerened about my current play through, as well as a few future ones I have planned.

What I would like to see from the Landsmeet as a resolution:

* Alistair hardened and married to Anora

* Loghain recruited



I understand I would have to bring this option (marriage) up to both of them before the Landsmeet.

Questions:

Is there anything else I could do to promote this outcome?

If alternatives aren't brought up to Alistair and Anora beforehand, and the PC is a non-noble, will a hardened Alistair always take the kingship when offered without the PC being given the option to select the ruler?

If the PC is a noble, and Alistair is hardened, will the PC then be able to give their opinion on who should rule?



Please forgive my ignorance, I haven't done many play throughs with a hardened Alistair.



I have always played through with Alistair hardened. To the best of my recollection I was able to pick the ruler when I played through as an elf mage, but my memory is a bit hazy on that one so I am not positive. But with a noble and Alistair hardened, I was definitely able to choose the ruler (i have 2 noble playthroughs). If you are female you can also select at that point to rule beside him.

To have them marry and Loghain recruited, make sure you talk it over with both of them at Eamon's house in Denerim, and then at the Landsmeet do not allow Alistair to fight Loghain (he will always kill him, and then Anora will refuse to marry him).

This might help [[Possible Landsmeet Outcomes]] [[User:Vavasor|Vavasor]] 15:32, April 5, 2010 (UTC)



For this outcome:

1. Don't let Alistair duel Loghain, and then proceed to spare his life (if you don't spare him, Alistair will take the crown)

2. Convince Alistair and Anora to marry (if he's hardened and you are persuasive enough, you don't necessarily have to talk him into it before hand)

If this is the outcome you want, it doesn't matter if you're noble or not, because as soon as you move to spare Loghain, Alistair will step in and try to take the throne so he can execute Loghain. At this point, it is entirely up to you as to what happens next.



Thank you very much for the information, and the link. It has been most helpfull. I believe I found the reason I wasn't given a choice on who would take the crown: "If a hardened Alistair executes Loghain, he will assume the throne and end further dialogue on the topic. " I think I let Alistair take the killing blow, even though the PC was the one who dueled Loghain. [[Special:Contributions/129.198.241.67|129.198.241.67]] 08:10, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

== Did he pick Leliana's rose? ==

I'm baffled I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. Alistair apparently picked the rose he gives you back in Lothering. I didn't see any rose bushes in Lothering, and the only one mentioned is the one in the Chantry's garden, which Leliana says was dead and gnarled. It was having her horrible dream of the blight and then seeing a single rose blossoming on that bush that made her have her revelation and leave the cloister. Is it implied that Alistair picked ''that'' rose? -- [[User:Aisynia|Aisynia]] 06:27, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

:I don't think it's ''implied'' necessarily...I don't think you're meant to see Alistair picking the rose--after all, you may never romance him. From a lot of angles, I think it makes sense--Alistair says he was surprised to see something so beautiful where there was none like it elsewhere...and from Leliana's description, that's the only one that grew. However, judging from the complete lack of garden in front of the Chantry, I'd say the Chantry kept it's garden behind. I think it's a neat idea, but definitely just fanon. [[Special:Contributions/96.228.107.229|96.228.107.229]] 12:27, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
: That would explain how it stays alive permanently, if it's The Maker's rose. XD [[User:Earisu|Earisu]] 17:50, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Epic! Maker's Rose! Maybe it ''can'' overpower the darkspawn with it's rosy scent!

==Profile Picture==
[[File:Alistair.jpeg|Profile One|thumb]]
[[File:Alistair.png|thumb|Profile Two]]
Similar concerns as [[Morrigan]]. The new picture is too small and less expressive than the old one. Maybe there is a better solution, but I don't think this is it. Any other thoughts? {{User:Loleil/sig}} 14:00, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

:I think it looks fine. Its a really nice shot of him ^^ [[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 14:48, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

::The picture has been reverted since I made the comment. Are you able to clarify which pic you prefer for the profile? I definitely think there is room in the article for profile two. I think it could work nicely in the epilogue section as he looks rather kingly in it, but I feel number one works better for the profile. {{User:Loleil/sig}} 00:26, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
::::What about this pic? The one below [[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] 03:28, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
::[[File:Alistair_.jpg|thumb|left]]
:::::I prefer it it to number two, but like number two it looks like Alistair is using his "resting" expression (i.e. the face he goes to when he's stopped talking). I know from personal experience that's it's not easy to get good pictures when characters are talking, and I like that profile one has manged to do that, giving Alistair a more expressive shot. Also, as a result of the conversation on Morrigan's page, I've ammended the image guidelines to ask that profiles don't get changed unless there significant problems. {{User:Loleil/sig}} 03:56, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
{{clear}}

Wow..somehow I never realized how big his nose was before. O.o On another note I would say I prefer the original pic to either of the other 2. More expression is good. Plus I believe that is from Ostagar/Kokari? So he's likely in the armor you first meet him in. In my opinion, it's giving a more acurate representation of your first meeting of him, rather than the more mature versions in the other 2 pics.[[Special:Contributions/129.198.241.62|129.198.241.62]] 09:42, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

== Speculating on Alistair's Parents pt.2 ==

I was hesitant about allowing any unconfirmed information into the article as I feared it would just lead to more speculating. I eventually relented and allowed a brief note about Maric having another child who may or may not be Alistair to try and stop all the people writing as though Alistair is ''definitely'' Fiona's son. However, this seems to lead to people speculating more reasons about why he is not Fiona's. So there are two options, one we keep the brief

:"It is possible that there are inaccuracies in what the Warden learns of Alistair's background, and indeed in what Alistair himself believes about his background. Maric had an illegitimate child by [[Fiona]], an [[Orlesian]] Grey Warden and elven [[mage]], whom she gave to Maric be raised in ignorance of his mother. What became of this child is unknown".

Or two, we have zero speculation altogether. Ideally I feel Wiki articles should be about facts, not trying to prove a point of view. As the information was presented it was entirely factual, without trying to say what the facts mean and as it is something a lot of people believe I was happy to leave it in, but if people can't stop adding info I think any mention will have to go altogether. {{User:Loleil/sig}} 08:00, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

:I think the problem is even if you remove it altogether someone will come in and add it back in. I like it as it is personally. It states "It is possible" not "He is in fact" so I don't see anything wrong with keeping it, or why people feel the need to add more on why he isn't. The above paragraph never says he ''definitely'' is. However if people would rather it be removed until it's confirmed/denied I don't see a problem with that, as it is just a theory after all. Although it seems only one person is adding and reverting his reverted edits. Unless this has happened before?

:I'm wishing someone from Bioware could confirm this, but I get the feeling it's being left ambiguous for the next game (I hope!). [[User:Earisu|Earisu]] 12:26, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

::Yes it has happened before, but thinking about overnight I agree with you that removing altogether it would just result in going back to the problems we had before, so I shall persevere in reverting. Like you I think it is the best compromise.

::It is interesting that the devs have been deliberately vague on this issue when they have squashed other fan theories (like Duncan being alive). I hope they settle it once and for all too! {{User:Loleil/sig}} 00:45, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

::Has it ever occurred to anyone that, given Fiona is a mage and that therefore her child is likely to have the ability, that her child is actually Anders and that his obvious likeness to Alistair and Cailan was deliberate? He doesn't really know his past, given to the Ferelden Circle, or not. Just a thought ~ Bethgael

== Alistair Theirin ==

Shouldn't his name be Alistair Theirin, since he's of the Theirin bloodline? [[User:Nadare|Nadare]] 15:52, May 3, 2010 (UTC)



As a Grey Warden, he's given up any claim to a family name, although some seem to still be known by their full name (i.e. Floral Aeducan).  --rival_grace

:Also, I think we have spoiler issues if we change it and we don't know as a definite fact that Alistair accepts the surname in all playthroughs. {{User:Loleil/sig}} 01:33, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
::Besides that, for all we know, bastards don't inherit surnames on tradition. I doubt Alistair thinks of himself as a "Theirin". [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 18:32, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


:Alistair didn't want to be known as a "Theirin". He tells the Warden this once you've gone to Redcliffe. He says that when people know of his father and his bloodline, they treat him differently. Alistair doesn't want to have special treatment because of his family, but rather to be respected for what he does. [[User:Greyclocks]]

There's also the fact that by virtue of being a bastard he never had a right to the name.  Arl Eamon raised him to the throne because he was literally the last living possessor of Theirin blood; then and only then did Eamon suddenly seem to think that Alistair might have value: before that was the case, Alistair was just a nameless bastard.  In the real world, that's precisely what the whole issue of bastardy revolves around: if you are born to an unmarried woman you are considered to be fatherless and therefore nameless.  Even if it is known who the man was who fathered you, if he's not your mother's husband, biology gets trumped in favor of societal tradition.
::The recent comic has confirmed that his surname is, in fact, Theirin.  So now all we do not know is whether or not he takes this name after becoming king, or if every canon Alistair has the surname as Theirin.  Therefore, we should probably start considering whether or not it is worth adding it to his page.  I'm going to add it into the plot section now, at the end, but we need to decide if it should be in the title. [[User:Idiggory|Idiggory]] ([[User talk:Idiggory|talk]]) 00:35, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
:::He would have taken the name upon gaining the Throne. He makes a point in his reveal in Redcliffe of saying that no one knew he was Maric's bastard except a few (hence him not telling the Warden before--he was used to not saying anything because no one was allowed to know). That would hardly be conducive to him running around with the Royal Surname, no? ~ Bethgael

== Alistair and expansion: Awakening! ==

Just curious if there's anyway to end the story in '''DA:O''' to get Alistair to be in your group in the expansion '''DA:A'''?

[[User:Sunnyconger|Sunnyconger]] 23:05, May 5, 2010 (UTC) 

Unfortunately, no.  Depending on your ending in DAO, the only role he'll play will be a brief cutscene or a mention in the epilogue.  --[[User:Rival grace|Rival grace]] 09:58, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

== Alistair died? ==

In the landsmeet I decided to marry Anora. Alistair killed Loghain and was forced to give up all his claims to throne. I accepted Morrigan's offer about ritual. I did not take Alistair with me to final battle - he was leading forces at the gates, but in epilogue Anora spoke as Alistair was dead and he was not in royal palace when I had possibility to chat with my party members. So what happened? And by the way.. Couple of characters including Morrigan during ritual talk refered Alistair as a future king of Ferelden even though she knew that I was going to marry Anora. Why did that happen?
:These are known glitches in the game, that, if you own the PC version, you can download mods to fix. Don't be offended, but you should always check Google or the wiki before coming here. :D [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 18:31, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

== Hardening not necessary? ==

So I didn't harden Alistair, and yet I was able to convince him to both marry Anora, and keep me as his lover. I do have level 4 persuasion, and 25 cunning. Can anyone else back me up on this?

[[User:Kdk0726|Kdk0726]] ([[User talk:Kdk0726|talk]]) 04:02, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Did you play on the PC and mod the game? Sometimes weird glitches happen for no apparent reason--but this is most certainly not supposed to happen. In fact, that's a pretty meager cunning/Persuade check you have. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 18:30, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

==Alistair's Epilogue==
After reading Alistair's fate in his page, I noticed that he needs to be hardened so that he "will surprise many by studying governance, though he still likes to sneak out of the castle to visit local taverns". I always make his quest and give gifts to him but I never get this epilogue, I always get the epilogue where "he travels frequently during his reign, ruling with a 'common touch'" which should be the epilogue where he wouldn't be hardened. Is that a glitch or I did something wrong? --[[User:Rocketai|Rocketai]] ([[User talk:Rocketai|talk]]) 23:40, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
:Yes. You need to "harden" him, when speaking to him about his sister Goldanna after you meet her. The wiki explains it all. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 18:29, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


You answered your own question before you even asked it.  He needs to be hardened to get the studying governance ending in the epilogue.  If you're not getting that, you haven't hardened him.  But, yeah, you knew that, since you said as much right before asking...so...why did you ask a question you knew the answer to?

== Loghain and Alistair ==

I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning, but delving into the toolset for RtO's conversations reveals that at one point, it would have been possible for both Alistair and Loghain to be in the same party. There's a conversation they have with each other about Cailan upon seeing his corpse. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 09:08, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

== Another way to save Alistair from dying ==

something I think should be in the Wiki btw
I was playing with my rogue and when Alistair wanted to stop his beloved Warden from killing the Archdemon, I got at one point the option "(Cunning) What about a final kiss? (knock him out)" or something like that. Then she ran to the sword and killed the Archdemon. That way you can still can take Alistair with you to the Archdemon without having to do the ritual or having him killed.
*Then you must have modded your game. This is absolutely impossible to do in vanilla. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 02:17, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry, you are right. It does seems to be part of a mod, though I didn't release it at that time.

== Alistair and Leliana ==

The page should be edited about the hint of romance between Alistair and Leliana in The Darkspawn Chronicles. If playing a female Warden and you've slept with Alistair but are romancing Leliana, you can trigger a dialogue with her when she asks about Alistair and the Warden's relationship with him. In one of the responses, Leliana will admit that she probably would have gone for Alistair were it not for the Warden. Bear in mind I've only got this dialogue once, and I'm not sure the exact prerequisites.
:That dialogue occurs when you are currently romancing Leliana and hit Moderate approval (I think). She'll start to coyly see if you're interested in or not, and you can mention your interest in Alistair. She'll stutter and try to cover up her blunder by saying she might have gone after Alistair if you had not. She wasn't interested in him, she was interested in you, but is mortified that you're not. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 02:46, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think there is enough in-game allusion to potential interest between Leliana and Alistair -- if neither had met the Warden -- that this statement is not true: "During the The Darkspawn Chronicles DLC, if one looks at Leliana's Codex Page, they would find that it is rumored that she is Alistair's lover. This is <strong><em>never brought up</em></strong> during Origins however, even if the player doesn't romance either of them."<ol><li>The conversation mentioned above, where Leliana states she'd have gone for Alistair.<li>Leliana's "So how *is* Alistair..." conversation.
<li>The party banter where Alistair tells Leliana he'd take his chances to be with a lovely bard (such as she), if the "racy" stories were true. 
<li>And of course, it is the obvious pairing, absent the Warden: there is not one in-game issue on which they disagree. That is, I haven't managed a course of action yet that gets positive approval from one, and negative from the other.</ol>

I think that statement should be edited to read, "Leliana's Codex Page in The Darkspawn Chronicles DLC states that she is rumored to be Alistair's lover. This is not directly addressed in Origins, however, even if the Warden does not romance either character." ... But I am a n00b, so please let me know whether this edit seems warranted. [[User:Methylviolet|Methylviolet]] ([[User talk:Methylviolet|talk]]) 03:11, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

:My opinion is edit it, by all means. You guys have enlightened me, so let the world be enlightened :) [[User:Xelestial|Xelestial]] ([[User talk:Xelestial|talk]]) 03:21, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

== Alistair thinks he is king? ==

So I just killed the Archdemon, but I haven't yet choped of it's head. I'm going to be all herioc and kill myself, but Alistair is all like "If I'm going to be king..." blah blah... but I made Anora queen, and Alistair renouced all claims to the throne. But he still thinks he's king!
In that particular game I've had no romance with him ( I've heard that if you don't except Morrigan's offer and Alistair loves you he will kiss you one last time and sacrifice himself, major awww). I've a high enough cunning that I'm able to persuade him not to, but will this fuck up my ending? Or is it just a minor glitch?
--[[User:Alessaie|With all due respect,The younger, better looking female version of Gandalf.]] ([[User talk:Alessaie|talk]]) 02:08, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

== Accepted Morrigan's Dark Ritual? ==

did he? I see no proof? [[User:Zachariah Zuan|Zachariah Zuan]] ([[User talk:Zachariah Zuan|talk]]) 16:05, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
:Since Morrigan is in the party, and knowing she leaves otherwise, it is a safe assumption. [[User:Prismvg|Prismvg]] ([[User talk:Prismvg|talk]]) 16:31, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

== How to play gay Alistair? ==

when I play in male, Alistair never fall in love with male, but i see in youtube, have some gay Alistair there, how can i play gay Alistair?--[[User:Iflwlou|Iflwlou]] ([[User talk:Iflwlou|talk]]) 19:31, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
:If you have the PC version you can download a mod. --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] ([[User talk:Sencilia|talk]]) 03:55, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
::I playing in PC version, but where can i download?--[[User:Iflwlou|Iflwlou]] ([[User talk:Iflwlou|talk]]) 16:18, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
:::Try this: http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=713 but it says its for human males only I think. So hopefully your warden is a human. --[[User:Sencilia|Sencilia]] ([[User talk:Sencilia|talk]]) 04:21, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

== Rename page with full name ==

Well, since he is named "Alistair Theirin" in the introduction and Dragon Age: Origins was released for a while, and he is also named like that in the Dragon Age II codex, I think it's time to renamed the page with his full name like other pages of companions we also know the full name, what do you think? [[User:Itachou|Itachou]] <sup>[[User talk:Itachou|[~talk~]]]</sup> 15:15, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
:He is not named Alistair Theirin in any other Codex but the Codex where he is king, as I recall. And he's not always king. It'd be like renaming the Cousland a Theirin because she can sometimes marry Alistair. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 16:31, April 3, 2011 (UTC)
::But it is a fact that Alistair's father is Maric '''Theirin'''. The surname transfers over from the father. Since there is no other reason for Alistair to have a different surname, there shouldn't be much debate as to what it should be. I am fairly certain that his surname, King or no, is Theirin. Also, it would not be like naming the Cousland a Theirin because she can marry Alistair. As you said, that's marrying into the family and taking the surname. That is very different from being born into the family. Sláinte mhaith! - [[User:First Tiger Hobbes|<font color="grey">Hobbes</font>]] (<small>[[User talk:First Tiger Hobbes|<font color="grey">Talk</font>]]</small>) 22:59, April 9, 2011 (UTC)
:::Not for a bastard, though. A bastard wouldn't inherit his father's last name unless he explicitly gave it to him. Check up further on the page--it was decided that DAO Alistair wasn't a Theirin. [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 00:02, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
::::But that doesn't change the fact that he's still family, does it? I mean, Maric and Alistair's mum weren't married, but he's still in the Theirin family. I'm not trying to argue, I just want to understand this. This doesn't make much sense to me... Sláinte mhaith! - [[User:First Tiger Hobbes|<font color="grey">Hobbes</font>]] (<small>[[User talk:First Tiger Hobbes|<font color="grey">Talk</font>]]</small>) 00:34, April 10, 2011 (UTC)
:::::Well, it does by technical standards. A bastard would not have received, in most likely scenarios, his father's name. Also of note is that only the King codex has his name as Theirin. The Warden and Drunk codexes simply list him as "Alistair". [[User:HelterSkelter|HelterSkelter]] ([[User talk:HelterSkelter|talk]]) 00:44, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

::::::You've also got to understand that when you get put up for adoption or whatever you don't get your surname. If he was walking around with that surname people would have been more than suspicious. [[Special:Contributions/77.96.95.141|77.96.95.141]] ([[User talk:77.96.95.141|talk]]) 05:45, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

When you become a Grey Warden, like in many religious or military orders, you automatically lose your family name. Duncan of the Wardens, Riordan of the Wardens, Alistair of the Wardens. You might argue that Alistair leaves the Wardens when he becomes King, and assumes the name of Theirin for political reasons... -- [[User:Marvin Arnold|Marvin Arnold]] ([[User talk:Marvin Arnold|talk]]) 23:31, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out that Goldanna isn't actually Alistairs half sister since his mother is really an orlesian grey warden elf mage who had some alone time with Maric in the deep rodes. So to say in the family section of his bio that Goldanna is his sister is incorrect.

== 3 fortunes of alistair ==

[[File:AlistairGreyWardenDA2.png|thumb|Grey Wardens in lowtown]]


If anyone can incorporate this pic with the "2 Fortunes of Alistair.jpg" and make it 3 fortunes of Alistair please do. I've attempted this myself but I can't seem to get a decent quality of the merger of these 2 pics (more so without the original separate pic of drunk Alistair and king Alistair) and was hoping if someone more skilled to help in this.--[[User:TyraelMM3|TyraelMM3]] ([[User talk:TyraelMM3|talk]]) 00:58, May 8, 2011 (UTC)
:It's been "merged" through a template instead; I think it's a better solution, although it needs some tweaking. --'''[[User:D-day|D.]]''' <span style="font-size:8pt">([[User talk:D-day|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/D-day|contr]])</span> 19:54, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

== Redcliffe revelation dialogue? ==

So, the first time I head to Redcliffe and Alistair stops to tell me *something", the wiki dialogue shows the line "Are you sure? You're not hiding anything else?" but I can't get that one in any way. Is this a cut dialogue or am I doing something wrong? Slightly silly, but I love Alistair's voice too much to let this go, lol. {{unsignedIP|72.48.192.16|23:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)}}
:You need a higher approval (I can't test right now, but one of my characters had 43, not romanced). --'''[[User:D-day|D.]]''' <span style="font-size:8pt">([[User talk:D-day|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/D-day|contr]])</span> 05:15, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

== Confession in the Deep Roads? ==

I keep seeing things online for Alistair's romance, that he can confess his love to the female Warden in the Deep Roads. It's on Youtube, but I haven't seen in, since I'm unable to view Youtube vids some reason. If it's true, it should probably be added. [[Special:Contributions/98.229.208.185|98.229.208.185]] ([[User talk:98.229.208.185|talk]]) 17:58, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

:He can confess anywhere if his approval is high enough (if your Warden flirted with him, of course). --'''[[User:D-day|D.]]''' <span style="font-size:8pt">([[User talk:D-day|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/D-day|contr]])</span> 18:36, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

== epilogues ==

some things for the epilogue haven't been added. on my dalish and city elf accounts i sacrificed myself. in both epilogues alistair eventually resigned from the grey wardens. also, on my human noble account i married alistair and became queen but eventually he left and promised that he would oneday return. plus, on the accounts i sacrificed myself on, he goes to someplace i forget then dissapears. same goes for lelianna

== How old is Alistair? ==

The only time I hear him mention an age was when he said how old he was when he was sent to become a Templar. "...to the nearest monastery at age 10..." So how old is he when we meet him? --[[Special:Contributions/198.54.202.218|198.54.202.218]] ([[User talk:198.54.202.218|talk]]) 12:02, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

:Head up to the section Confused in this talk page for a pretty thorough discussion on his age.  It's never actually stated in game, so it's all speculative.  [[User:Time4Tiddy|Time4Tiddy]] ([[User talk:Time4Tiddy|talk]]) 15:35, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

== Alistair's Dialog in DA2 ==

It says here that Alistair will not mention his romance with the warden if he remains with the grey wardens in DA2 however this is false. Almost every playthrough of mine that I had Alistair in a romance with the warden and he was in the grey wardens, he has mentioned them with the ring calling them old friends. They're in a romance, as I have imported the origin myself. [[User:AFreeMarcher|AFreeMarcher]] ([[User talk:AFreeMarcher|talk]]) 02:51, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Old friends is not exactly mentioning you're together or lovers, now is it? [[Special:Contributions/75.186.131.185|75.186.131.185]] ([[User talk:75.186.131.185|talk]]) 02:54, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

It's due to the everpresent import bug. I've used the import bug fix from the social projects site, and when Warden Alistair showed up, he mentioned the romance and how this used to belong to the person most close to his heart or something like that.... (it's been a while) he also gives you something different I think... Again, I can't remember details. -- [[User:FaeQueenCory|FaeQueenCory]] ([[User talk:FaeQueenCory|talk]]) 14:33, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

When Teagan says The Warden will be returning to Denerim soon I hope he doesn't mean from Amaranthine because it's year 7 by that time and Anders has been in Kirkwall (Only saying this because apparently Teagan only mentions it if you've played through Awakening)

== DA2: The purpose of King Alistair's visit to Kirkwall?? ==

He comes to the Keep, has a brief confrontation with Meredith, tells her "a "maybe" would've been nice", then tells the Champion that he'd have preferred to meet him before Meredith, that it's too late now and he should protect Kirkwall, and then he's off again... it's all very ominous and confusing... -- [[User:Marvin Arnold|Marvin Arnold]] ([[User talk:Marvin Arnold|talk]]) 20:03, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Swooping is Very bad

== Fiona's son, not her son... ==

I debated removing the trivia item a while ago regarding the possibilities of Alistair being Fiona and Maric's son it, and finally decided to do it now. Although it's only giving facts regarding Maric and Fiona, the trivia item is pretty much speculation, regardless on how many people may support this theory. --'''[[User:D-day|D.]]''' <span style="font-size:8pt">([[User talk:D-day|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/D-day|contr]])</span> 19:50, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
:I strongly disagree with this.  The argument for the connection was certainly solid, and not even putting the theory forth (properly labeled) seems to be very disingenuous.  Remember, if Alistair is not the bastard in question, then it DOES mean that he has another half-brother out there, which certainly may be important in the future.  As such, it should be mentioned on his page, with a note that the child in question might be Alistair or a sibling. [[User:Idiggory|Idiggory]] ([[User talk:Idiggory|talk]]) 00:33, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
::I added this back into the trivia section, as it is absolutely true that Alistair is either the child, or the child is his sibling.  Whichever is true does not matter, as the overall argument is sound. [[User:Idiggory|Idiggory]] ([[User talk:Idiggory|talk]]) 00:48, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
::: No, it's not. The child must be a sibling. Gaider might have intended Fiona's son to be Alistair, but unfortunately he mucked up if so (he did say that the edits stuffed up Cailan's age in The Calling; he's supposed to be 5 at the beginning of the novel, not 9). Unfortunately, any speculation that Fiona is Alistair's mother is ruined by an established in-game statement by Loghain, when you ask him why Maric didn't acknowledge Alistair (Loghain starts with "he almost did"), that Alistair's existence as Maric's son, if known, would have "ruined Rowan" but also, more importantly "been a constant reminder [to Rowan] of Maric's infidelity", i.e., Loghain is saying that Rowan was alive when Alistair was born, hence the secrecy (and he'd know, and has no reason to lie at this point--it is a "warm" conversation). Even if Rowan died almost immediately afterwards, The Calling has Rowan's death predate the conception of Maric and Fiona's child. Therefore, canonically, there must be 3 children borne of Maric, that we know of, whatever the original intention was ~ Bethgael ([[Special:Contributions/114.77.174.136|114.77.174.136]] ([[User talk:114.77.174.136|talk]]) 07:08, May 16, 2012 (UTC))

Don't forget that pregnance lasts 9 months. Is in DA:Calling written if its winter or autumn? If Alistair is born in 9:10 and is Fiona's son, then Maric and Fiona must have sex in late 9:9 or early 9:10. I still hope Ali has another long lost borther.[[Special:Contributions/78.8.101.93|78.8.101.93]] ([[User talk:78.8.101.93|talk]]) 18:13, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

== Alistair's age. ==

I'm just gonna say this.

To those who wants to know Alistair's age, I'm just gonna say that Alistair is 31 in DA:O, and in act 3 in DA2, he is around 37-39 years old. :3

--[[User:Serina Lachance|Serina Lachance]] ([[User talk:Serina Lachance|talk]]) 14:51, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

:Where did you get Alistair's age? If this is from the toolset, it's not the character's age, but rather the suggested age for the voice actor. --'''[[User:D-day|D.]]''' <span style="font-size:8pt">([[User talk:D-day|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/D-day|contr]])</span> 17:09, February 6, 2012 (UTC)

According to the upcoming ''World of Thedas'' book Alistair was born in 9:10 Dragon, making him 20 in ''Origins'' and 28ish for Act 3 in ''DA2'' and 29ish in the comics. 

The age of 32 given for him in the toolset is base on the original character concept where he was going to be an older, experienced Warden, before they realized that it was unrealistic for a Warden that much more experienced would give command to a new recruit so they made him younger and newer to the Wardens. [[User:BallAndChain|BallAndChain]] ([[User talk:BallAndChain|talk]]) 07:28, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

== Contradictions to Darkspawn Chronicles ==
This trivia section:
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Darkspawn_Chronicles#Trivia

Contradicts what's written here. So which one is correct? Admittedly I've not played DC so I don't want to do any editing on this.

:And yes that ^ was me [[User:Earisu|Earisu]] ([[User talk:Earisu|talk]]) 00:00, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
::I believe the concept of DC is what would have happened if the Warden died at Ostagar.

I don't think he annulled the Circle, as I definitely fought Wynne (who should have died if the RoA was called for, iirc).  But I don't remember if I fought other Mages.  He definitely defended Redcliffe, because I fought Teagan.  And he HAD to find the Urn, otherwise the Landsmeet would not have been called and we would meet Loghain.  We also know he did not deface it, otherwise Leliana and Wynne would be dead.  But I'll leave it to someone else to confirm this. [[User:Idiggory|Idiggory]] ([[User talk:Idiggory|talk]]) 01:07, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
::The presumption that he annulled the circle is based on the fact that Wynne is fighting with the Templars (including Cullen and Greagoir), and no other mages (including Irving) are present. If you annul the Circle when talking to Greagoir *after* saving Irving, Wynne actually lives (and is asked to be the new First Enchanter by Greagoir, which she declines as she wishes to join the Warden--I have in my most recent runthough told her where she can put her help and she stays in the Tower, ever ready for you to change your mind), but Irving is imprisoned/killed with the rest of the survivors. Alistair also appears sympathetic to the concept of annulment (albeit weakly) before you enter the Tower. In either event (annulled or not), Cullen does not fight at Denerim if the Warden exists, but he would do so if Alistair (an ex-Templar) was leading the fight. ~ Bethgael

== Theirin ==
The Silent Grove confirms that King Alistair's surname is Theirin, so I added that into the trivia section.  But it needs to be discussed whether the overall article should be amended to include it.  I'm generally in favor of doing so, but there are two valid objections I can see: 1. We do not know if this is the name he was given at birth, or if he takes the name when he becomes king.  2. It is something of a spoiler.  The first is definitely the more severe of the two.  You discover Alistair's identity as soon as you go to Redcliffe (which the game urges you to do ASAP), so I don't think it's too important of a spoiler.  Thoughts? [[User:Idiggory|Idiggory]] ([[User talk:Idiggory|talk]]) 00:51, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure he only takes the name when he becomes king: his [[Codex entry: Alistair (Dragon Age II)|codex entry]] for Dragon Age II is simply "Alistair" rather than "King Alistair Theirin" if he is exiled or stays as a Grey Warden. He is pretty much forfeiting it. As such, I'm in favor of not including his name as canon, even if we know he is a Theirin. He is only a Theirin (in name) if he becomes king, and in BioWare's canon. {{User:D-day/Sig}} <small>16:33, May 20, 2012 (UTC)</small>

::I'd rather not include it, as it is too much of a spoiler. Also, what D-day wrote above. [[User:Asherinka|Asherinka]] ([[User talk:Asherinka|talk]]) 18:07, May 20, 2012 (UTC)

== Special dialogue DA2 ==

Should be noted that Isbella & Anders both have special dialogue- but with the drunk Alistair, Isabella doesn't know who he is even though she does with King Alistair. --[[Special:Contributions/108.173.141.149|108.173.141.149]] ([[User talk:108.173.141.149|talk]]) 07:33, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

== Physical Discription ==

It's hard to see effectively in the pictures, but does anyone know the eye color, height and age of Alistair?  [[User:Arcanis Born|Arcanis Born]] ([[User talk:Arcanis Born|talk]]) 08:39, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Alistair has brown eyes. His height no idea, most proberly the average of a bloke. Age, everyone thinks he's 19-25 somewhere in that region. We're never give alot of people's ages in the game anyway.
Oh and his hair is not blonde more leery brown.
[[User:Phoenix96|Phoenix96]] ([[User talk:Phoenix96|talk]]) 08:43, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

He has hazel eyes and dark blond hair in his .mrh file in the toolset. According to the upcoming ''World of Thedas'' book he was born in 9:10 Dragon, making him 20 in ''Origins''.  It's hard to say how tall he is supposed to be because the human male bodies are all the same height but I get the impression in the comics that he's fairly tall, likely over six feet.  --[[User:BallAndChain|BallAndChain]] ([[User talk:BallAndChain|talk]]) 07:22, March 17, 2013 (UTC)


== King Alistair's contingent in DAA ==

An examination of the equipment assigned to the soldiers who accompany King Alistair indicates that, despite their headgear, they are probably ''not'' Templars. (Ditto Queen Anora, since she has the same party accompanying her.)
[[File:DAOrigins_2013-04-18_21-27-00-945.jpg|thumb|in-game]]
[[Rylock]]’s UTC identifies her as a Templar, and she wears the stylish uniform. 

[[File:Guard3.jpg|thumb|left|The guard equipment in the toolset.]]The rest of the party are “bodyguard1”. The only Templar equipment any of them wear - they are all identical, using the same UTC file - is the [[Knight-Commander's_Helm|Knight Commander’s Helm]], which seems to be the go-to headgear for “NPC Bioware doesn’t feel like making a morph for” (See: [[Dark_Wolf|The Dark Wolf]]). Their armour is the [[Commander's_Plate_armor_set|Commander’s Plate]] set, and they have generic metal kite shields, not Templar shields. - [[User:Theskymoves|Theskymoves]] ([[User talk:Theskymoves|talk]]) 14:24, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

:You're right. It still strikes as odd if Rylock is leading a normal army unit as templars do not do such things. However, feel free to remove this specification from the article. {{User:Viktoria_Landers/Sig}} 14:40, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

== Existence hidden from Rowan? ==

There is a passage within the article that I disagree with why I would like to remove it.
<blockquote>''Eamon sheltered the boy to hide his existence from Queen Rowan, Maric's wife, on the advice of his friend Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir.''</blockquote>
Ignoring whether the Goldanna's mother or the Grey Warden Fiona is Alistair's mother, it seems to be fact that Alistair was born in 9:10 and Queen Rowan died in 9:08. So the reason cannot have been to hide his existence from Rowan. 

Are there any objections against removing that passage? --[[User:Kendira|Kendira]] ([[User talk:Kendira|talk]]) 18:10, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

I have no objection. Numbers don't lie.[[Special:Contributions/78.8.247.54|78.8.247.54]] ([[User talk:78.8.247.54|talk]]) 18:16, May 8, 2013 (UTC) Just call me Dalish fan
:Numbers do lie. Cailan is supposed to be 12 at this time, but the same book says he is 9. [[User:Henio0|Henio0]] ([[User talk:Henio0|talk]]) 18:25, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
I would approve removal, unless someone can provide confirmation of where the oiriginal assumption of Loghain advising Cailan to hide Alistair came from, because it may override the books. I believe it was in a conversation with Loghain, yes? [[User:Henio0|Henio0]] ([[User talk:Henio0|talk]]) 18:25, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
:About the book problem, David Gaider himself said there was an editing mistake. <blockquote>DG: ''Cailan is supposed to be five years old in "the Calling". Rowan died two years before.''</blockquote>

:About the conversation with Loghain. I remember something that Loghain tried to protect Rowan's honor, but this could also mean after her death. Unfortunately I don't remember where I heard or read that. Could have been within the wiki as well as the game. --[[User:Kendira|Kendira]] ([[User talk:Kendira|talk]]) 18:37, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

:My only objection to its removal is that the first part of it is from a codex in the final release of the game.  Players who have no knowledge of interviews, books or guides would have no reason to think it wasn't canon.  (The part about Loghain, I don't recall seeing before.)  I think that when the discrepancies regarding Alistair are officially resolved in some form, that that confirmation can be incorporated into the article.  But until then, I think this Wiki should regard what appears in the game itself as canon, and refer to and link to the discussion as an ongoing thing. [[User:-Sophia|-Sophia]] ([[User talk:-Sophia|talk]]) 10:27, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

::Hm, I'm not sure if Codex entries are such a reliable source given that they change from what you learn during playing the game and depending on your decisions. I agree that there should be clarified what is known from the books and what from the game only. --[[User:Kendira|Kendira]] ([[User talk:Kendira|talk]]) 12:48, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

::Generally I would recommend the use of references much more in this wiki. In this case here I offer the following '''compromise''': Adding a reference to the [[Codex Entry: Alistair]] for the passage and a following note, that there is a discrepancy to the DA books. --[[User:Kendira|Kendira]] ([[User talk:Kendira|talk]]) 12:59, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

:::I second the objection with regards to the codex.  Not only does the final product differ by player choice, but it has not otherwise been presented as a source of infallible knowledge.  The solution I would suggest is to select the language that is most faithful to both the game and other possibilities, without selecting one or becoming too vague.  In this case, I would elect for removal or to replace it with the language regarding protection of Rowan's honor.  It's true in either scenario (Alistair born before/after Rowan's death), and it doesn't require us to make any assumptions.  I'm not a fan of citing discrepancies unless they are absolutely mandatory, such as the information at the start of Anders' DA2 section, with regards to Awakening retcons.  That's a different beast, entirely.  [[User:Idiggory|Idiggory]] ([[User talk:Idiggory|talk]]) 02:15, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I have edited it now into: ''Eamon sheltered the boy on the advice of Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir to protect the honor of Queen Rowan, Maric's wife.'' --[[User:Kendira|Kendira]] ([[User talk:Kendira|talk]]) 08:56, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

== Darkspawn Chronicles ==

While I'm all for adding some more detail to this section, it is now longer than all of Alistair's involvement in ''Origins.'' His decisions are already detailed on [[The Darkspawn Chronicles]]--is there really a need to have the same info on Alistair's page? [[User:Kelcat|Kelcat]] ([[User talk:Kelcat|talk]]) 00:57, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

:Yes, I agree that it's a bit much as it currently stands. A brief summary with a link to the more detailed DLC page is like the way to go. {{User:Loleil/sig}} 07:40, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

::Looking at it closer, this is actually more detailed than what's currently on The Darkspawn Chronicles page. I think it warrants having its own section regarding all of Alistair's decisions, so I'll work on moving some of this stuff over there and then just summarizing here. [[User:Kelcat|Kelcat]] ([[User talk:Kelcat|talk]]) 15:51, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

== Old trivia from the old forums ==

The information's source cannot be salvaged and were long overdue to be removed, so here's a [http://dragonage.wikia.com/index.php?title=Alistair&diff=519965&oldid=518240 comparison link] to the latest revision with them for those who want to know about them. It might be not noteworthy anyway, mostly just random tidbits about the writers and the character. {{User:D-day/Sig}} <small>19:41, October 12, 2013 (UTC)</small>
:Even though the source is no longer accessible, surely we can keep the information on the page. Can we not cite in some way that the source is no longer active but keep the information anyway? The information is still pertinent and fun to know. I think it's noteworthy--it's the devs' thoughts on Alistair's characterization, however trivial. [[User:LadyAeducan|LadyAeducan]] ([[User talk:LadyAeducan|talk]]) 22:56, October 13, 2013 (UTC)
::I don't think any trivia that can't be properly sourced should be on the main pages. For people new to the wiki they've no way of knowing if this stuff was ''actually'' said by the developers or if someone just added it in with a fake source. Which opens up the door to adding more trivia that can't be sourced. (this is something that needs to be addressed on other pages, as well--especially the ones that use tumblr links). Perhaps listing all of it on the talk page would be a good compromise? That way the info is still there, with the caveat that it can no longer be verified. [[User:Kelcat|Kelcat]] ([[User talk:Kelcat|talk]]) 23:14, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

::I was initially going to copy it on the talk page, but thought it's just easier to link to the comparison edits instead. Anyway, information that can no longer be verified should be removed, because as Kelcat said, there's not way for new editors to know if it is indeed true now. It was already cited in a way to note that the information was actually sourced, followed by a dead link tag (I think I'm the one who added the dead link tag—I've been trying to find an alternate source for other old information, but haven't found any). {{User:D-day/Sig}} <small>23:53, October 13, 2013 (UTC)</small>
:::Thanks, D-day, I understand. [[User:LadyAeducan|LadyAeducan]] ([[User talk:LadyAeducan|talk]]) 19:54, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

== Alistair Half-Elf Confirmed! ==

BioWare confirmed during the raptr Q&A today that Alistair is Half-Elven.  Should we add this in?  But, question remains is that they did not state that Fiona is his mother, but should we add that as well?  

Source:  http://forum.bioware.com/topic/399000-the-dai-twitter-thread-raptr-qa-session-descends-into-utter-madness/?p=16905084

http://raptr.com/BioWareDAI/news/53b458118d24e1eb29/raptr-q-a-dragon-age-inquisition-developers

For the raptr link, you need to filter the comments to find it.  


[[User:Supergodzilla118|Supergodzilla118]] ([[User talk:Supergodzilla118|talk]]) Supergodzilla118 19:14, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

It seems that Fiona was also confirmed: https://twitter.com/Mike_Laidlaw/status/486584356337487872 {{User:Mostlyautumn/Sig}} 19:26, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

: I added it to Fiona's page, but I'm not sure where it would fit best on this one. It's not really trivia and I think it should be expanded on some, but I don't know if it counts as a spoiler since according to Laidlaw this has been a known fact for years :/ --[[User:Kelcat|Kelcat]] ([[User talk:Kelcat|talk]]) 00:05, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

:: Yeah, but the more speculative people would rather have official confirmation since Alistair was never named in The Calling.  [[User:Supergodzilla118|Supergodzilla118]] ([[User talk:Supergodzilla118|talk]]) Supergodzilla118 00:09, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

::: I'm the nit-pickiest person, but even I will admit that that twitter from Mike Laidlaw is more than enough confirmation. --[[User:Kelcat|Kelcat]] ([[User talk:Kelcat|talk]]) 00:13, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

::: Its going to be funny listening to all the naysayers though.  [[User:Supergodzilla118|Supergodzilla118]] ([[User talk:Supergodzilla118|talk]]) Supergodzilla118 00:14, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

::: I'll add that if other people think this isn't enough concrete confirmation I'm fine with that, as well. But since he said that it was revealed in the Calling I don't think it's even possible for it to be someone else. --[[User:Kelcat|Kelcat]] ([[User talk:Kelcat|talk]]) 01:51, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

::: Should we remove Goldanna as his half sister since its not true now?  And Add Fiona as his mother?  [[User:Supergodzilla118|Supergodzilla118]] ([[User talk:Supergodzilla118|talk]]) Supergodzilla118 02:33, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

Confirmation from the one and only David Gaider: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhXCpKDqFb8#t=2164 {{User:Mostlyautumn/Sig}} 19:40, July 14, 2014 (UTC)

== Unclear Wording ==

The wording of the Inquisition section is extremely poor, specifically the first paragraph - it makes it sound as though Alistair is the one ordering the rebel mages to attack the people of Ferelden. I'd fix it myself, but I'm evidently not allowed to edit =/.

== Inquisition Involvement ==

If I made him King does that mean I miss out on the Inquisitor working with and Hawke? --[[User:Revan&#39;s Exile|Revan&#39;s Exile]] ([[User talk:Revan&#39;s Exile|talk]]) 02:34, December 13, 2014 (UTC)

:yes but do you really want to chose between them? Also does anyone know if Drunk Alistair gets any mention?--[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 23:49, December 14, 2014 (UTC)

::I would prefer Alistair showing up as a GW instead of Shroud. So I started over, only twenty hours into the game. --[[User:Revan&#39;s Exile|Revan&#39;s Exile]] ([[User talk:Revan&#39;s Exile|talk]]) 00:57, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

:::You may regret that, but let me know how it goes. --[[User:Gboy4|Gboy4]] ([[User talk:Gboy4|talk]]) 01:36, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

::::Why would I regret it? Even if I do I still have my other character where Alistair is king. --[[User:Revan&#39;s Exile|Revan&#39;s Exile]] ([[User talk:Revan&#39;s Exile|talk]]) 02:06, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

:::::I just figured out why you said I would regret it. --[[User:Revan&#39;s Exile|Revan&#39;s Exile]] ([[User talk:Revan&#39;s Exile|talk]]) 02:14, December 23, 2014 (UTC)

: I made Alistair king and Hawke still showed up, along with Stroud. --{{User:Kelcat/Sig}} 00:03, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

: Depending on your import Hawke will show up along with either Alistair, Stroud or Loghain. As far as I know there's no mention of him if he is exiled. --[[User:Knight Runner|Knight Runner]] ([[User talk:Knight Runner|talk]]) 00:21, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

:: If you exiled Alistair and Loghain makes the Ultimate Sacrifice in Origins, exiled Alistair will be the Warden you get in Inquisition instead of Stroud (see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ocYKhigiYc here]) --[[User:Zeromaru X|Zeromaru X]] 04:40, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

Question
If you don't harden Alistair, can your female noble character still marry him and have him become the king?

== Kieran in family ==

I'm not sure Kieran should be listed in the family section of the infobox. While Kieran can, indeed, be Alistair's son conditionally, it seems to me to be a pretty big spoiler which doesn't really need to be there. --{{User:Kelcat/Sig}} 02:24, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

A wikia's job is to chronicle the subject matter thoroughly and efficiently. It is not the job of the wikia to ensure that people remain spoiler free. If someone has just started DAO it is that person's responsibility to stay away until they have finished or accept the fact they will be spoiled. --[[User:Revan&#39;s Exile|Revan&#39;s Exile]] ([[User talk:Revan&#39;s Exile|talk]]) 02:43, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

: Most of the time I'd agree, but there are always exceptions. And it's not as if Kieran isn't mentioned in detail in the article itself under spoiler tags (which are there so people can still see info without being spoiled), I'm simply proposing removing the name from the infobox because we don't use spoiler tags in infoboxes. --{{User:Kelcat/Sig}} 02:54, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

::I agree, but I don't see how Kieran being his son is any more of a spoiler than having "King of Ferelden" as a possible title
-{{User:HD3/Sig}} 07:38, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

:"Wikia's job"? No such thing. This is a free website where people contribute for free. Wikia is for people, it is not meant to be a containment of data. If it were so, we might as well not bother with the website and just put everything in spreadsheets. As for the latter point, the subject matter is chronicled thoroughly and efficiently. Kieran is mentioned in the appropriate section. We don;t have to list every major detail about the character straight off the bat. It's like saying starting an article on Harry Potter wikia with "Severus Snape is a teacher at Hogwarts who kills Dumbledore", or Sixth Sense with "Brice Willis plays a detective who is dead the whole film". Spoilers need to be contained, if it's organic. [[File:User signature henioo.png|15px]] [[User:Henio0|<font style="background:black"><font face="Franklin Gothic Demi"><font color="yellow">henioo</font></font></font>]] [[User Talk:Henio0|<font color="greenred"><sup> (da talk page)</sup></font>]] 18:12, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

Addressing spoilers in infoboxes has been on my mind, but in the meantime I'm in favour of removing Kieran, it's a big spoiler to give readers right at the beginning of an article and as it's only conditional I don't believe it's essential information for an infobox. {{User:Loleil/sig}} 22:27, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and removed Kieran from the infobox. --{{User:Kelcat/Sig}} 20:34, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

== Non-Married Romanced Warden in Family Infobox ==
I just wanted to submit the idea of retaining a romanced but non-married Warden as conditional "family" on Alistair's infobox (change the Warden family entry to "Wife/lover/mistress - conditional.").  

Currently only the Warden as wife option is acknowledged and, respectfully, that seems to me to risk bias by implicitly only acknowledging a Queen Cousland relationship with Alistair as valid.  There is also the option for an acknowledged place as a mistress for King Alistair, which as we all know is the only option to continue the relationship for the non-human noble romances if Alistair is king, as well as remaining Alistair's lover with no marriage if he stays a Warden. 

For the purposes of the game, a non-married romance with him is just as acknowledged as a married one in DA2 and DAI, if not moreso, and it doesn't seem accurate or fair to me to dismiss the other permutations of his romance for the lack of a ceremony that we never even see.  It risks favoritism of the Queen of Ferelden option, in my opinion, and dismisses a huge number of playthroughs and relationships.  Would it be alright with everyone if I added this?  

Thanks!--[[User:WardenWade|WardenWade]] ([[User talk:WardenWade|talk]]) 00:10, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

: I see your point, but we've never put lovers in infoboxes because they're not technically "family" in the traditional sense. Spouses are legally family and siblings, parents, etc are biologically, but boyfriends and girlfriends aren't. We don't have Briala in Celene's infobox as family, nor Thorold Tethras in Maevaris' infobox. 

: I don't think only including a queen Warden shows favoritism or bias, both types of relationships are given equal treatment in the body of the article. I'd be more open to removing married Warden than adding lover Warden, but I don't have a strong opinion about keeping married Warden in or out of the infobox. --{{User:Kelcat/Sig}} 01:09, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

::Thanks for weighing in on this!  In the interest of fairness, maybe removing married Warden from the family section would indeed be best?--[[User:WardenWade|WardenWade]] ([[User talk:WardenWade|talk]]) 01:25, July 31, 2016 (UTC)

:It's not biased. We don't list the female human noble Warden there because it's the character some people decided to play. We include it because it's the character Alistair may marry. It makes no difference whatsover whether the Warden is a playable character or not. [[File:User signature henioo.png|15px]] [[User:Henio0|<font style="background:black"><font face="Franklin Gothic Demi"><font color="yellow">henioo</font></font></font>]] [[User Talk:Henio0|<font color="greenred"><sup> (da talk page)</sup></font>]] 10:30, July 31, 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks, Henio0!  If it's not biased/doesn't matter, as Kelcat suggested above maybe removing it would be most fair if it's all conditional?  We could do the same with the [[Sebastian Vael]] page as well, to be consistent.----[[User:WardenWade|WardenWade]] ([[User talk:WardenWade|talk]]) 03:25, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

::::I don't think we should remove it for that reason, in fact it would be biased against players who specifically play a human female noble just to marry Alistair. If we were to remove the PC from the marriage in infobox, I'd say we should do it because of spoilers. We'd have remove Inquisitor as a spouse too. But that's a rather major change and would require voting. There are other implications, however. Like, what about a marriage that doesn't happen without player choice? Like donnic and Aveline.[[File:User signature henioo.png|15px]] [[User:Henio0|<font style="background:black"><font face="Franklin Gothic Demi"><font color="yellow">henioo</font></font></font>]] [[User Talk:Henio0|<font color="greenred"><sup> (da talk page)</sup></font>]] 04:27, August 1, 2016 (UTC)
:::::It's something to consider, and it is spoilery, as you mentioned.  It might be worth putting it to a vote to see what the bulk of the folks here think, or at least seeing if anyone else weighs in.  Thanks!--[[User:WardenWade|WardenWade]] ([[User talk:WardenWade|talk]]) 00:43, August 3, 2016 (UTC)--[[User:WardenWade|WardenWade]] ([[User talk:WardenWade|talk]]) 00:43, August 3, 2016 (UTC)

::::::I would support removing it on the grounds of it being a spoiler. {{User:Loleil/sig}} 04:14, August 4, 2016 (UTC)

:::::: I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other about having married Warden in the info box, though I think if it's decided to remove due to spoilers the same should be done for [[Anora]]s page. {{User:Kelcat/Sig}} 06:43, August 4, 2016 (UTC)

:::::::It sounds more or less like removing this is preferable.  I'll do so for Alistair and Anora.  Cullen, Sera and Sebastian will probably require this as well, for the sake of spoilers?----[[User:WardenWade|WardenWade]] ([[User talk:WardenWade|talk]]) 02:03, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

::::::::I am in fact against removal. Not strongly, but nonetheless against. [[File:User signature henioo.png|15px]] [[User:Henio0|<font style="background:black"><font face="Franklin Gothic Demi"><font color="yellow">henioo</font></font></font>]] [[User Talk:Henio0|<font color="greenred"><sup> (da talk page)</sup></font>]] 11:30, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

:::::::::I'm also against removing the information re possible marriages, if the goal of the wiki is to have complete and accurate information. -[[User:Theskymoves|Theskymoves]] ([[User talk:Theskymoves|talk]]) 13:38, August 10, 2016 (UTC)


::::::::If they're married, I would contend that is worthy of recording but otherwise, I think we should leave the romances out of family
-{{User:HD3/Sig}} 00:50, August 11, 2016 (UTC)