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Warning this page will contain SPOILERS. If you already read novel Dragon Age: The Masked Empire, then what's your opinion on Patrick Weeks' work of art?FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 18:03, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Alas I have pre-ordered it but comes out on a later date here in the UK. Is it good in your opinion? ---Lazare326 (talk)>

I warn about spoilers. I was very surprised, when I learned that Arlathan elves also had slavery, that was very unexpected of them. Another time a an ancient advise "Don't trust demons" was prooven to be correct. I didn't think there are more Dalish elves that don't consider city elves as their kind. Now we can say that Dalish elves seek past and the city elves seek future. At last we saw Celene's face, she's a machiavellian and ruthless. Burning slums reminded me method of Emperor Nero in times of ancient Rome. I was glad we met sylvans again, they were my favorite oponents in DAO. I wonder if in the end it was really Fen'harel or a demon pretending to be the wolf. I wondered when we meet another Forbidden One and we met, now it's only the Formless on to meet. Celene lost all, but in my opinion she deserved it, but what does matter if she deserved it or not if Orlais is now in chaos. After reading this book I started to think it's good that Cailan died at Ostagar and didn't marry Celene.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 13:20, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

I haven't read it yet and the summary descriptions aren't very clear grammatically, but from what I can gather it's not as though Celene arbitrarily persecuted one side over the other, she punished the noble who started it all in the first place but the slums were stil in rebellion, what monarch could be expected to allow a rebellion to run a muck in their kingdom? And however Machiavellian or ruthless Celene may be, it doesn't change how necessary she is, or how necessary her methodology may be, in order to govern and change Orlais, I doubt she would have survived long enough to do anything of the sort if she WASN'T ruthless and Machiavellian. And there's really no question she's far more progressive then her other noble counterparts in Orlais is there? Sometimes we need those Marchiavellian types in order to function, whether we particularly like it or not, or else the alternative is bigots like Gaspard and chaos in Orlais. I don't particularly LIKE Anora but I get why she's so effective and how she's such an asset for Ferelden even if she is selfishly ambitious. You make do with what you have, which is how my Inquisitor will look at it when he finally meets her.--KrimzonStriker (talk) 15:46, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
I never said I was surprised by burning the alienages. I know sometimes ruthless rulers are really necessary, but unlike you I often fail to detect when they are neccessary. Once I heard that heartless dictators are needed, when is crisis, some of them rather keep the crisis, so they would be in charge longer.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 16:05, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
You only need to look at Orlais and who her competition is to tell whether or not Celene is necessary really, it's all about context. As for crisis' is it your impression Celene would rather keep the crisis? As I said I haven't read it but so far it doesn't seem like it.--KrimzonStriker (talk) 16:20, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Whoever did this page, http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age:_The_Masked_Empire, made a lot of grammatical/lexical mistakes in the plot section. I will neaten it up. Just clumsy at parts. ---Lazare326 (talk)>

User:Леди боли wrote this part of the page.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 15:22, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Well I neatened it up, since names such as Briala were spelt wrong, and Halamshiral was too. Just a few examples. So i did not change the content but more of the structure. The content of the page, although good, needs to be changed, as it's pretty brief and vague at parts. ---Lazare326 (talk)>

Patience, grasshopper, the book's only been out for 2 days. :) --Kelcat (talk) 18:15, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
  That's why I called it "good", XD, just barely readable before which confused me a bit that's all :) ---Lazare326 (talk)>

Seriously, have so few read this novel for now?FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 16:08, April 10, 2014 (UTC)

I want a copy so bad, but finals weeks is upon me, and alas I have no time! :( @FirstDrellSpectre From what I'm gathering from what you said, I can agree that Celene deservedly "lost all." Burning the Elves homes? Really? I completely dislike her now. She sounds reminiscent of Anora, and frankly Anora was not all that and if played right, the PC can be much more cunning (stat wise) than Anora or Celene could ever hope to be. Leader wise, I'd prefer probably a hardened Alistair. But I can't wait to get my hands on the book! Fen'harel is in it?! And the Elves of Arlathan having slaves doesn't totally shock me. I am curious how they treated their slaves. I'm curious if Bioware was making a point of how slavery was different in different times and places. Ancient Tevinter for example used chattel slavery, but was Arlathan's the same? Gah! So many questions! --Jamirflyd (talk) 22:37, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

Read the summary on the wikia if you want that scene clarified. It wasn't as clear cut as made out to be, she tried in fact to rectify the matter by assassinating the HUMAN noble responsible for the riot but it blew up in her face thanks to Gaspard. Practically speaking their was little choice but to use lethal force if you want a riot to be dispersed in this time period, they don't have tear gas and rubber bullets at this point and to allow the riot to go on would have killed even more people.--KrimzonStriker (talk) 01:29, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I literally just finished reading it about 30 seconds ago. The thing I find most surprising is how much I went into it expecting to hate Gaspard but, honestly? I don't. 67.61.234.198 (talk) 04:37, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I actually agree with you, I still don't like him personally but I do respect him more and see that he can be reasonable if he'd just put aside his damn pride for a second. His honesty has it's downsides, like when he basically admits to Michel that his objective to make Orlais strong went down the toilet and a protracted civil war might destroy the country he wanted to save, but despite that he won't put aside his ambition or his pride and fight the war regardless. He's like a thickheaded but loveable uncle who exasperates me with his antics but makes me smile because there's a certain charm to how he does it.--KrimzonStriker (talk) 05:23, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, of all the Dragon Age novels I think this one has done the best job of making all of the primary characters sympathetic, while also giving each of them serious flaws. It's going to be a far tougher choice than I'd anticipated choosing sides in DAI. 24.18.45.78 (talk) 07:08, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
Hey, you can always hope there's a better option instead of choosing between the two, like with Alistair and Anora, though I'm not suggesting marriage with them given all the daggers they're literally and figuratively throwing at one another, but more like a negotiated peace settlement where they agree to stop this nonsense. Maybe we can install Gaspard as Chancellor in a power-sharing agreement or something, who knows. My Inquisitor will do what it can to find out in any event. Still going with Celene if it comes to it though, Gaspard might be like able personally but the substance of his policies I still don't agree with, they take Orlais backwards not forward, nor do I think Celene is a bad or incapable ruler that merits being dethroned in the first place.--KrimzonStriker (talk) 07:36, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
I'll probably end up siding with Celene, too, I'll just feel a little guilty for it now, both because I'll feel a little bad for beating up Gaspard and because her hands aren't exactly clean. But my favorite choices are always the difficult ones, so I'm rather looking forward to it. 24.18.45.78 (talk) 08:04, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
If it helps think about what he'd do to Ferelden if he is given a chance at the throne. We spent all of the first game saving it, do we really want to give him the chance to destroy that? We wouldn't be ending the bloodshed, we'd be continuing it someplace else. Like I said, if there's a third option which gets these two to put their egos and pride aside and settle this dispute amicably, then by jove take it.--KrimzonStriker (talk) 15:34, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

i just finished reading the book i have to admit i was shocked and not shocked at what briala did and i think fen'harel is the one that kills felassan but i also think its either that thing that kills him or briala who tears the veil now. I admire briala but i pretty much dislike her now she is not to be trusted in any capacity what so ever and as much as i want to help the elves im not sure what to do with her because i believe betrayal will happen... i understand Gaspard but i still dislike the crap out of him he is a hypocrite in so many things and he is selfish and a ruler like that is something i dislike he kinda remindes me of stannis baratheon. And i will always back celene even if she did unspeakable things i don't really blame her she's not even that smart i blame the system and i believe she has the will to change it. But this book sure makes me like and hate everyone at some point except Michele, i liked him. But this book just made it clear to me how shitty orlais is its going to be a pain to handle those nobles Faye_Cousland (talk) 20:54, May 02, 2014 (UTC)

I understan you, but you have to know that even the best system works awful with bad people in charge. Every system in the real world had flaws - oligarchy, plutocracy, monarchy, democracy, totalitarism, military regimes, meritocracy. Who was Stannis Baratheon? If the Inquisition takes all duties of templars, seekers and grey wardens (attacking them in their keep) and has to fix this world, why not take over or nations and replace their systems with own, instead of giving advices those, who won't listen to you or do it other than you wished? Because people or selfish nobles won't accept a military organisation in charge? They don't know what they need or are to blind to understand it, such political enemies should be terminated for standing in way to fixing the world. The only way to save Thedas is to eliminate all rulers and let Inquisition to take over their nations. Dictatorship of competent Inquisitor is better than oligarchy of incompetent treacherous nobles or puppets in charge.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 20:13, May 2, 2014 (UTC)
sure i see your point but what would happen once the inquisior dies? who takes over? and what if the inquisior is a dick even worse than their current system? you dont know these things... also dictatorship tends to end badly sure the orelisian system is bad but good in the same way i mean even the empress\emperor doesnt have the power to do whatever he\she wants and thats a good thing and a bad thing it makes change harder but still idk its hard to say what would be the best thing to do but the world isnt perfect and maybe its better to have a empress who is fairly ruthless but strong to progress her country i mean letting the elves go to the academie and what not to me that is progress and knowledge above all else is power! one thing for sure is i dont think one thing is better over the other i guess the question is which one is the lesser evilFaye_Cousland (talk) 19:35, May 03, 2014 (UTC)

I found myself utterly despising Celene, actually respecting Gaspard somewhat and wanting to slap Briala. I really hope I'm not supposed to like Celene or side with her, because I find her a mass-murdering hypocrite. Positioning herself as an ally to the elves, only to engage in ethnic cleansing when someone accurately points out the real reason behind her soft sell approach to equal rights. And because twu wuv conquers all, even acts of genocide apparently, Briala stunningly decides the Dalish, rather than her girlfriend, are to blame for an attack they knew nothing about and couldn't have stopped even if they wanted to, deciding that the indifference of one clan speaks for them all. Call me crazy, but I don't think you could blame an endangered species of wolf wanting to look out for their own survival when they hear humans have been slaughtering domesticated dogs. If it comes to it (and hopefully it will) I'll gladly have my Inquisitor side with the Dalish against Orlais. The Orlesian Empire has proven itself irredeemably corrupt and should be left to its inevitable collapse. It's high time the elves had the chance to prove what they'd do with a country of their own. Raidenshred (talk) 20:35, May 2, 2014 (UTC)

I also considered giving Orlais to elves over Gaspard or Celene, but I'd rather give it to city elves over Dalish, because the latter don't care about city elves and don't think about future, but past, when city elves think about the future. City elves are also easier to speak with humans than Dalish. Ones living by past and didn't care about own people shouldn't be in charge. City elves respect Dalish until they meet them and hear "You're no elf" from them. City elves would be easier to accept by rest of the world than Dalish. If Dalish are so bound to past to be so stupid to trust demons like Imsheal, then they doom themesleves. Seeking past doesn't help to survive, but building the future does. Brialla think about future more than the whole Dalish clan. You say Orlais is corrupt, but we saw only nobles, not many commoners, nobility and corruption are words close to each other like twins. Commoners are surely more ethical than nobles.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 21:00, May 2, 2014 (UTC)
True enough. I played my Warden as a City Elf and was glad that part of that meant her people finally got a seat at the table (and of course disappointed to find that went nowhere when you port it to DA2.) In fairness to the Dalish/City schism, though, not all of them from both sides feel that way. The elves of Kirkwall seemed more welcoming to Merrill than her own clan, after all, so there's hope there. Indeed, unification may be the only real chance for survival and prosperity that the elvhen race has. United we stand, and all that. The Dalish could probably do with learning that knowledge of the past is only any good if you can apply it to the present for the good of the future. It's obvious they want things to go back to the way they were in Arlathan, but this is impossible, and if the City elves can teach them that their knowledge should be applied rather than preserved, the elves could once again become a force to be reckoned with. Especially given Thedas's current state, with human society and the Chantry too fractured to repeat an Exalted March on the Dales. Basically, the elves need a Braveheart. A, um, er, more successful one. Raidenshred (talk) 21:25, May 2, 2014 (UTC)
Tevinter first destroyed elven land, but it wasn't too different, Arlathan also was ruled by powerful mages, who enslaved own kind. Yes, elves also had slaves. When Arlathan empire collapesed elven servants and slaves rebelled against nobility and killed as many dreamers as possible, so they wouldn't enslave them again. Nobody wants to return to such times. Elves don't need heroes, but cooperation between each other. Poor wait for heroes, but they never come in most cases and that's their problem, they don't believe in themselves. Chantry declared the exalted march on Dales, but the elves weren't flawless either, they were hermetic and refused to aid humans during the 2nd blight. Qunari treat elves better, but only slightly, because they desire them to abandon own culture and identities, if they refuse to take their philosophy they are killed or stripped from mind by qamek. Chantry weakened can be reformed, but elves also must change. Dwarves don't follow Chant of Light in Orlesian or Tevinter version, but they are independent and respected, because they sell very useful goods like their armors and lyrium. Elves also must produce something useful to be respected, but their wooden crafting isn't better than dwarven products. Elven wooden armors can be hard like steel, but wood is vunerable for fire, that's not very useful, when we have armors from true steel. Elves must invent something more durable if they have to be respected like dwarves. Whole world is connected, nothing is separate. Elves won't survive if they preserve their isolation. Until I read TME I imagined a Dalish land guarded by varterrals and sylvan, but now I think city elves have bigger chance to survive, they don't live by past. Not only they need own land, but they must produce something unique to be respected and independent like dwarves.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 21:57, May 2, 2014 (UTC)
Every people have the right to a land of their own, though. It's not a question of merit. Native Americans don't produce ipads or oil, there's still no question the land is rightfully theirs. I get what you mean, that in terms of practicality the elves need a trump card, which is something the Dalish have been looking for. I don't agree with you about heroes, though. There's a line in a Springsteen song that goes "You said heroes are needed, so heroes get made." Heroes may not always show up exactly when they're wanted, but they tend to be made exactly when one is needed, usually by someone quite ordinary whose willing to put their belief that things should be better into practice. I believe the likes of Gandhi, Mandela or Martin Luther King are made, not born. Though I admit, I don't believe a peaceful revolution for the elves is possible. Hell, if I were writing DA, I'd give them a Genghis Khan. Someone to unite them by force and forge them into nation. Which, if it happened, would probably end up being the Israel of Thedas - bitterly disputed, surrounded by enemies, and heavily militarized.86.42.254.116
Heroes are absent, when they're needed. I in motral danger once, half of my body was bleeding, nobody came to help me. I had to depend on my own. I used my cloth to stop bleeding and with pain went to the nearest hospital. Where were heroes then? They weren't. Call so called heroes for help and their answer is silence. I saved myself, nobody saved me, when I had that accident. I though about all in DA, who wait for heroes as pathetic people too lazy to help themselves and believe in own strength.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 18:49, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry that happened to you. My sympathies, I know all too well what it's like to be hurt and for the help you need to never come. I just meant heroes in a socio-political context, not in the personal and immediate. And yeah, it is weak to wait on help instead of helping yourself (if that's an option.) But that's part of what I mean though, when I say heroes are made. Certain individuals see something happening they know is wrong and instead of lamenting that it can't be fixed begin to take steps to fix it, even if it puts themselves in jeopardy. 86.42.254.116 (talk) 19:09, May 3, 2014 (UTC)
Morally grey, no character is 100% right or wrong, interesting characters with more to them than meets the eye, a wonderful build up to Inquisition! Loved it, just reading through the other three again before reading it for a second time Putowtin- Light Love and Peace 10:57, May 3, 2014 (UTC)


i think they did point out how stupid the dalish can be doing deals with demons i think that if we gave the country to the dalish it would be an elven tevinter empirium with elves using humans as blood sacrifices to find out about the past. celene and gaspard no comment we all know that none of them will change the system so maybe i guess the city elves but not Briala she would betray her way to everything and i like fereldan i want to keep it safe from psychopaths .Faye_Cousland (talk) 19:41, May 03, 2014 (UTC)

Arlathan empire was already like the imperium you describe. Elven mages enslaved their own kind. That nation was nothing special, not different from Tevinter. Lanaya hates blood magic, because magisters used it against elves to enslave them, but we saw many Dalish practicing blood magic with no problem, Zathrian, Merrill, Thelhen. With keepers like Thelhen in charge Dalish have no future, they don't need to be in conflict with humans to extinct, their idiotic dealings with demons do it thousand times faster.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 21:01, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

Ferelden will totally be safer sharing a border alongside the Empire which invaded them twice and oppressed them for almost a century. You'll keep Ferelden really safe no doubt.-120.149.113.197 (talk) 12:40, May 4, 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion, The Masked Empire reflects the events on Orzammar Succession Crisis where two candidates are competing to the role of the ruler of Orlais. Gaspard is Harrowmont who honorable but bounded by tradition but Celene on the other hand is Bhelen who is ruthless but a reformist.112.200.58.122 (talk) 12:48, May 4, 2014 (UTC)

True, but Gaspard offered marriage with Celene, if that is going to be an option, then it will reflect the Landsmeet.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 13:15, May 4, 2014 (UTC)
I like your analogy, and though I reluctantly supported Bhelen, I would sooner side with Gaspard. Celene is something worse than Bhelen, who was "only" a murderer. Celene is more of a Bashar al-Assad. 14:05, May 4, 2014 (UTC)
Easier to say would be Bhelen is just a murderer and Celene is just a mass murderer. Returning to G vs C. Who is worse, an actual mass murderer or somone who tries to be? This would be an analogy to Avernus vs Possessed Sophia. However there were many rulers, who deal with political enemies like that. By losing whole power Celene prooved already to be incompetent. If he can't preserve her order then what is the use of her? Additionally she can retake the throne alone, so what is use of her? I am not saying I support Gaspard, I simply question Celene. Marriage between yin and yang like them wouldn't cause anything, but impase in Orlesian court.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 14:47, May 4, 2014 (UTC)
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