Forum:Who is the heir of the Teyrnir of Highever?

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionWho is the heir of the Teyrnir of Highever?

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I'm just wondering, when Brice Cousland explains why you are remaining behind whist he and Furgus go to fight, and why you can't join the Grey Warden's it is because he wishes for you to continue the Cousland line, despite the fact that his grandson Oron is remaining at highever.
If Brice and Furgus had died at Ostigar and Howe hadn't betrayed your family, would the Human Noble become Teyrn of Highever, or would Oron. Since Oron is the son of the eldest son of the former Teyrn that would make Oron the Teyrn.
Or would it pass to the Human Noble, as s/he would the only living child of the recently deceased Teyrn. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} File:SithEmblemTOR.PNG 00:24, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Actually the younger Cousland probably comes first as the child of the current Teyrn. If Bryce dies and Fergus inherits Oren becomes first in line. But if Bryce and Fergus die in the same battle Fergus never inherits, and while Bryce holds the title his children come before his grandchildren. At least I think that's how it works. I'm not sure if we have a canon source that clearly describes Ferelden inheritence laws. Kestrella (talk) 00:40, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

The children of the current-ruling Teyrn receive precedence. Bryce left you in Highever to ward off a possible succession issue if he and Fergus were to die. Rathian Warrior (talk) 02:54, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Its like Hamlet, only you didnt kill bryce or marry oriana. Crimpycracker (talk) 03:50, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Fergus is alive. You see him at the end of the game after you beat the Archdemon (if you human noble that is). --Sencilia (talk) 11:32, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, in ASOIAF, the son of the firstborn son comes before younger son(s), and it is supposed to be the same in Britain - William is in the succession line before Charles' brother, so it should be first Oren and then HN. However, leaving a single child, who may not even live up to adulthood, as a sole heir, would be very unwise, so that's probably why HN has to stay at home. --Ygrain (talk) 13:12, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

I don't get the idea, why Bryce sent Fergus to battle, and not HN. While an expendable younger child was fighting battles, Fergus could be making more children to secure the bloodline... Ah, wait, it was needed for the story:)-Algol- (talk) 14:02, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

A matter of face and honour? The Teyrn must have the respect of his vassals - and if he stayed safely home, making little Couslands, while everyone was out there fighting... I believe Fergus would have one hell of a trouble after that. --Ygrain (talk) 14:10, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you know how it's done - he's got sick, he's got a bit poisoned by a rival (a good excuse to begin a yearly vassal purge), I promised my younger child to send him, while being a bit drunk at the latest feast, but I have to keep my word anyway... Lot's of ways not to lose face, but even to gain even more. Besides, having the ONLY underage heir is tricky, and the vassals would be the first ones to understand. Even more, nobody among the nobility took that war seriously at the begining, so I don't think it would be the case of "he stayed safely home, while everyone was out there fighting".-Algol- (talk) 14:31, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the nobles were much less coddly of their heirs than we would suppose to, and that going to war was considered sort of manly sport. In none of the fantsy or historical books I've read, I can't ever recall the heir to stay at home. --Ygrain (talk) 14:40, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I was writing about excuses for the heir to stay at home... Bryce was a practical man, he made trade deals with Orlesians, while the rest of the country was at war with them. And having such a dangerous situation with succession, but still send his elder child fighting is... a bit out of his character. Wasn't it out of time to think about honour? On the other hand, maybe there is a great Justice... Cailan lived honourably, and died honourably. Foolishly, but honourably, in battle, against insurmountable odds and such. Bryce lived... not so honourably with his trade connections, and died... you know how.-Algol- (talk) 14:54, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

You think I will let you slander my family - oops, sorry, slipped in the role :-) - Anyway, where did you get that Bryce made trade connections with Orlais during the war? From his talk to Rendon, it is rather obvious that he fought them like everyone else, so I presume he started to trade with them only after the war. And, since Couslands seemed a lot about duty and honour, I don't think he would make excuses for Fergus. --Ygrain (talk) 16:10, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Me. I'm the heir of Highever. --87.93.19.48 (talk) 16:15, February 27, 2012 (UTC)Jak Darckner Cousland.

I think if both Bryce and Fergus had died at Ostegar. Then it would go to Oren. But cos of his age, I guess your warden would become regent of highever until Oren was old enough, say 18. So your warden would get it just temporaily.
And Calian was not honourable, he was gonna ditch Anora, and if you ask her as a human noble about how faithful calian was. Anora will actually point out he was shagging other women.
So it's live unhonourably and die honourably. Then live honourably and die unhonorably.
Also no slandering the Cousland Name. Phoenix96 (talk) 16:48, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

---

Ferelden is a very martial-based society at heart (the duel to settle the landsmeet hints at this, at least), and you're a better fighter than Fergus. Maybe Bryce figured the banns would respect your (temporary) lordship more, at least while the majority of the teyrnir's troops are down south. Or Fergus got the chance to ask first and Bryce respected his decision, thus requiring you to stay and take care of the teyrnir. Or he and/or Eleanor thought you were too young to go to war, regardless of your skill. Or it's just simple "eldest-goes-first" mentality; it'd look cowardly for the eldest to not go to war - he needs to show he's a big boy or fearless or whatever so that the vassals will respect him later - but not so much the younger - big brother gets to choose first, then lil' brother has to take care of everything else.
And I'm pretty sure you were just going to rule Highever while Bryce and Fergus were gone. If Oren was old enough, I'll wager he'd have been given the responsibility. If the two of them had died at Ostagar, you'd probably have simply been Oren's regent until he was old enough to become teyrn. At least, that's how I always saw it. Matt-256 (talk) 16:41, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

It's also the place a ruler to protect his home and people. If Fergus was to inheirit the Teyrinir he had to show he was both worthy and caple of defending not only Highever but Fereldan as well. We wouldn't want someone at the head of our local millitary someone who hides behind walls when the fight is going on.CrowInvictus (talk) 23:33, March 15, 2012 (UTC)

I would think the lands would go to Teyrna Eleanor Cousland since she is married to Brcye. The reason why Brcye left you in charge and not her because maybe he wanted to to get use to ruling Highever incase anything happen to Fergus and Oren. Also Brcye might have saw, you maybe get your own land to rule in the future. Brcye said to the warden that your mother will be there to help rule. So I'm assuming she is like by some of the lords who swore oath to Highever and she probably know some about politics too. Even if she doesn't rule I'm sure the warden will only be regient until Oren becomes of age. I am assuming the any kids of the first born will come before any uncles/aunts(first born's siblings) in the line of succession.--James.rosing (talk) 17:53, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Uh, since Eleanor doesn't have any Cousland blood in her. No. It's either the Warden or Oren. Eleanor would support them, sure, but she's got as much a right to the Teyrnir as Anora does to the throne of Ferelden. Meaning she only becomes a viable heir if absolutely no suitable blood relatives of the Couslands are available. Kestrella (talk) 18:26, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Current Lord - Fergus Cousland. heir - HN Warden--Master-at-arms (talk) 22:40, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the rule of hereditary sucession applies on Ferelden, if you talk to Darren about yourself in the HN Origins he says it's more probable that you inherit the Teyrnship than Fergus, althought it seems to be an compliment rather than a fact since before Fergus shows up in the Epilogue it looks like you will become teynr. In a related topic: Who becomes Teyrn of Gwaren if your Warden took the title and enters the mirror with Morrigan? Is it Fergus?

If you follow the way succession worked in medieval times, it's Fergus after the death of Bryce, should he be underage then his Eleanor would probably be his regent, but as he's not, he's Teyrn of Highever. Following Fergus would be Oren normally, as he IS underage they'll probably make either Oriana or Eleanor his regent should they be alive, or if HN is male and of age the HN. Should Oren also die it would fall on a MHN to inherit. Should there be a FHN, she should marry and her husband would be Teyrn.

Mandalore 23:57, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Fereldan is different from real medieval England in that women are allowed to inherit titles and land just like men, so it's probably similar to what Mandalor has outlined, but without the changes due to gender. It seems to me that Fereldan seems to follow a line of succession where giving it to the eldest child is expected, but not necessary and is likely the parent's choice, since it wasn't considered odd that the HN was in the running, but most still expected Fergus to succeed to the teyrnir. Bryce probably left the HN there for the reasons he specifies in-game: so that you could learn how to manage and maintain a fief. UrLeingod (talk)

It is difficult to say exactly becuase the game lore does not specify, even if you compare it to medival times, since There where different rules on succession depending on different places. E.g are woman allowed to inherite, is the land divided amongs the children, does the oldest next of kin gets the title. I would suspect if bruce and fergus would die, Oran would be de juro teyrn of highever with either his mother or (more likely) the human noble as regent and de facto head of highever until oran grows up. Steph285 11:20, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, here are the actual FACTS. If you play as a non-noble the codex for Rendon Howe says that he took the title of Teyrn of Highever. If you play as a noble however, the codex says that the title of teyrn is in question. Why? Because the human noble is still alive. This means that the human noble is the teyrn, and here is why. Ellenore is the Teyrna of Highever and this is stated numerous times. So in the case of Bryce dying, Ellenore is still teyrna and she rules Highever. In the case that she dies, the teyrn title goes to either Furgus or the playable character. Who it goes to depends on a few things. First, the current title holder can name the successor, and this can be anyone. In the game it is possible for the player to ask Bryce if Fergus is the new teyrn, in which case he will say that he is. However, this question is optional and can be ignored, in which case Bryce won't name a successor. Secondly, in either case the law says that the title is normally inherited by the eldest, unless the younger can prove better for the position. So if the eldest dies or is put in a state where he or she cannot function as teyrn/teyrna, then the title goes to the younger sibling. So in the case of the Couslands, the title was up for grabs between Fergus and the player unless Bryce named Fergus. But in either case Fergus was incapacitated, which left the player as the only heir. We know this for a fact because without a human noble playable character Rendon gets the title without question. As for the title possibly passing to Oren, I doubt it would have been so even if he had lived. Believe it! (talk) 20:46, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I assume that it would've been me, had my brother died, based on Bryce's dialogue. Though I ended up being Teyrn of Gwaren anyway, so it probably didn't matter.--R0B45 (talk) 08:39, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

How do you become Teryn of Gwaren? EzzyD (talk) 15:44, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

When King Alistair or Anora offer the Warden a boon, the Human noble can choose "power and the riches that go with it" - and is then given Logain's former teyrnir. Ironically (for Howe), if the right choices are made, the Couslands are able to hold 3 out of 4 of the highest positions in Fereldon: King/Queen Consort, Teryn of Highever, Teryn/Teyrna of Gwaren. Alexsau1991 ^{(talk page)} File:SithEmblemTOR.PNG 23:53, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Actually the consort matter is up for debate. Numerous quotes and texts in DA:O and DA2 indicate that the a male Cousland becomes the official king if he marries Anora. Also, there are other titles you forgot about. Arl of Amaranthine, and Warden Commander of the Grey. Believe it! (talk) 17:52, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

I think the right of succession would go to the younger child of Bryce Cousland. But if my Human Noble's nephew was all that stood between him and the seat, well, let's just say that the little maggot's lucky Howe made his move first >:D. Whocares65 (talk) 17:56, March 19, 2012 (UTC)