The topic is about companions in DA2. Relationships with them change them for better or worse. Question is: who has better character development as firend and who as rival? Sebastian as rival changes from a priest wannabe to a prince wannabe. Isabela as rival changes from a selfish backstabber to a woman with many regrets. Merrill as rival realises all her efforts were only a waste of time and she destroys the mirror, which caused so much evil because of her stupidity. And what do you think about them and the rest of companions?
Bethany, Varric, Fenris and Aveline can be only friends to me, because I mostly agree with them and they need friends to be happy. 78.8.7.0
I befriend everyone, except Merrill, maker how i hate her
Anders if you befriend him he has more contol over Justice, Rivial Justice has more control, you can persuade him to fight with the Templars.
Carver Friend, he's a bit more friendly to you as a rivial he's more of a jackass.
If you Rivial Aveline you will ultimely cause her to resign from being Guard-captian.
But really it depends on whether you like them or not. I do rivial with Merrill to discourage her from blood magic. Fenris is usually in between. Basically Sibling, Varric, Aveline... BF's 4ever. Anders is omitted since he gets a dagger in the back.
I think Merrill's rivialy is the best developement. Fenris and Anders just get more broody and angrier, Varric still embelishes tales. Phoenix96 (talk) 14:03, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
Isabela-rival because this make her better person:) Merill- rival because i hate this stupid bi*** and destroy this stupid mirror Sebastian - i hate so much this religious mega stupid puppet so i don't even care at the end still cry when i don't kill anders and he run away. Fenris-No matter he still have philosophy "mercenaries kill my family all mercenaries bad" Aveline- Friend i don't see reason why not Anders- Friend let's rebel! Varric-Friend because chaotic good is awsome:) Carver-Who cares he is still asshole and extrelmy annoying.
I usually rival Sebastian, who I'd rather have as an annoying Prince ally than an annoying monk ally. I also normally rival Anders, because I find him incredibly annoying and I like making him angry. And I like rivaling Merrill because then she realizes that she's been an idiot about the mirror, and especially if I'm romancing her- I feel like the rivalmance is the more developed one. I always friend Varric, Aveline, and Isabela. If I feel like bothering with Fenris at all (like Anders, I find him incredibly annoying) I friend him.--Liam Sionnach (talk) 16:42, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
@ Anon. Merceneries didn't kill Fernis' family. Get your facts right. Fenris hates Mages not merc's!Phoenix96 (talk) 16:44, October 7, 2012 (UTC) Lol that hard understand something easy this philosophy is if some elves,dwarfs or something different kill your family or do somthing bad ,you hate all race or profession like mercenary.
It depends on what one'd describe as "best." Besides two or three conversation, rivalrly and friendship doesn't really matter a great deal.
But, if I play the Hawke that is supposed to mirror me, I go for the following.
Varric is always friended because he gets my sarcasm, and approves of my actions most of the time. I would have to work really hard to make him a rival.
Bethany is friended because it just comes naturally. Carver gets rivalled because he's got a problem with everything. I understand his last name is also Hawke (and yet people don't call him that), he always lived in the shadow of the older sibling, and all that - but it takes actions of the Champion to actually make him think for himself and be his own man. And because of that, I can't friend him.
Aveline is friended because she approves of my good actions. But if it was based on character, I would rival her. What I hate is hypocrisy, and she has that written all over her.
Isabela is friended because I flirt with her, usually sleep with her, and am sarcastic. But offered a choice, I would rival her, coz she is all about selfishness and it's weird for my HAwke to friend her. She should be friends with selfish Hawkes, and rivals with good-hearted Hawkes, IMHO.
I always try friending Fenris early in the game because if it depended on our characters, he would be my rival as I don't believe in enslavement of the mages. I don't think he can be friends with mages-supporting Hawke. It is really fitting to be friends with him, and even romance him, if you support the templars.
Merill I always rival because I criticize her blood magic, and am anti-demon in conversations. So, again, if you're into demons and blood magic, she is better off friended. Otherwise, a rival.
I usually rival Anders, or rather - Justice. He is too crazy to friend, I wouldn't feel okay agreeing with Justice. But if on a particular playthrough I feel pity for Anders, I friend him.
With Sebastian, I have yet to achieve either. It's really hard for me, because he likes it when I do good thing, but doesn't like me siding with the mages, and so he never gets fully rival or friend. He is too much of a Chantry boy, even though he denies it. I tired making him reclaim Starkhaven to take revenge on his family's killers, but he hates me for it. So, in conclusion: I don't know about Sebastian. Henio0 (talk) 17:20, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
- Sebastian assits you, if you side with mages in the end only if you kill Anders, he doesn't join templars like Fenris if not fully a firend or a rival.
I rivaled Aveline with an aggressive pro-templar Hawke and she didn't resign. She did tackle me though. She punched me a few times then got up and we laughed about it. I'm usually friends with her though. Probably the most surprising thing about her (friend or rival) was her friendship with Isabela. I was expecting them to get along about as well as Anders and Sebastian. I haven't done a rivalry with Isabela yet or a friendship with Sebastian. Fenris and Anders friendship or rivalry typically is determined by whether I'm pro-mage or pro-templar. Carver is a rival and Bethany is a friend. Varric is usually a friend. Merrill can go either way. She's a sweet girl but dumb as a brick about that mirror and the demon. I'm fine with the blood magic though. I kept hoping the Warden would pop in or send a letter or something telling her about the one in the Dragonbone Wastes. I hate Fenris and Sebastian for a variety of reasons but I hate Sebastian more largely due to the fact that no matter what happens, I can't kill the S.O.B. I sympathize with Anders because he's alot like me. I felt bad for him and Justice. --Vampire Damian (talk) 17:48, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
- And I hate Anders and I always kill him. I don't mind Sebatsian, I have my own reason. He's nothing but an abomination and a warmonger. He's also a hypocryte, he said "why can mages not say no to demons", but he said yes. He started this idiotic war by a needless massacre just to prove his point. He's no hero or antihero, he's a madman no better than this Norvegian Anders. Abominations have no right to live and they must be destroyed. My protagonist of DA3 has to clean his mess. If Vengeance survives, I'll destroy him in the Fade. I want peace and I'll kill every warmonger on every side of conflict to stop the war.
The key point is, friendship and rivalry is a much complex system that approve/disapprove. I played a rogue Hawke who was nice and compassionate with everyone, but who always supported mages and on the other hand did not believe in the maker. In the end, I secure friendship with everyone, except for 2 rivals : Fenris, because of my mage support, but it didn't stop mutual respect and Sebastian, who appreciate my kindness, but doesn't need this chantry shit and MUST take back his land... which he sadly (?) do it at the end because I spare Anders. My only regret : I would like a friendly Hawke who still desapprove Anders final action (you'll know what I means), and make him understand they will defend the mages only to clean the hell he made in the city (and because he believe it's the right thing to do), but apparently it is only available to a rival (which means you press him yourself to the point of no-return, you bastard !)
- Ain't nothing complex about it. And it is very flawed to boot. Example: you do good things and help the mages - you never reach the full meter with Sebastian, you disaprove of slaves, are neutral with Fenris, but have a strong opinion on the topic of freedom for mages - you never get Fenris as a friend, nor a rival. And if that is to secure your companion's life, it is bad; an RPG game forces you to abandon role playing and just metagame. Henio0 (talk) 21:50, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
- I had brought this up in another discussion topic, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who sees it this way. In my case, I friend Varric, Aveline, and my siblings, as well as Fenris, despite initially not getting along over mages, we eventually became friends by taking down slavers. Merrill is Rivaled to get her off blood magic. My grey areas are Anders, Isabela, and Sebastian. I'm pro-mage, but I'm not sure which is the best way to treat Anders, thus determining the nature of Justice/Vengeance and whatnot. Isabela is much better as a friend, but I don't think she "gets better" as a person unless you put up with her Rival cattiness. Regardless, Castillon dies. Sebastian, I don't think it makes a difference. I'd like him to take up his role as prince, but it requires being a douchebag too much and based on the four Goodbye variants, Rivaling him makes him a little bloodthirsty, particularly if you side with the Templars. Anyone have any thoughts on this? My hope is that the Friend/Rival system doesn't change their cameos in DA3, i.e.) if Fenris is Friended, he saves a random group of mages, whereas if he's Rivaled he kills them. RShepard227 (talk) 22:21, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
- Henio0: I actually the the Friendship/Rivalry system works rather neatly the way it does in the sense that if you roleplay you simply cannot be friends with everyone and some of your companions will turn on you in the end. I would say that's highly realistic. It's metagaming only if you decide that keeping your companions alive is more important than rpg:ing and choose to metagame. And if this is a fault, it is also a fault in DAO. Perhaps more so there than in DA2, as in DAO I tend to end up metagaming my companion relationships to get the bonuses. -- Gissur the Sailor (talk) 23:27, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not saying the approval system was perfect, coz it had its problems too (like, get Leliana to like you too much before the first camp visit and you'll be stuck with her quest untill you'll lower her approval, etc. etc.) I just said that the DA2's system is flawed, because it is. It shoulda been more like the Paragon and Renegade in DA3 - they are both "poured" into one pot, and of whichever there is more, is the one that dominates. I'd have no problem with the friendship system if the rivalrly and friendship points stack up. As it is now, unless you metagame, you end up with neither a friend nor a rival for several characters. :) Henio0 (talk) 23:43, October 7, 2012 (UTC)
- What I was trying to say (I think, it was the middle of the night so my brain was not up to full speed) is that it isn't exactly realistic roleplaying to expect your character to become a full friend or rival with all of his/her team members. The fact that some end up somewhere in the middle is not a flaw, it's realistic. -- Gissur the Sailor (talk) 13:49, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
- True, but it ain't realistic for your rival to start climbing mountains at command for six years either. -- Gissur the Sailor (talk) 21:04, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
- True that. But - as noted above - the system also leads to metagaming because of the bonuses friendship grants. -- Gissur the Sailor (talk) 10:28, October 9, 2012 (UTC)