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I used to be an advocate of the retconning argument, i.e, the OGB would appear no matter what. Now however, I'm more inclined to agree with those who say that he won't appear at all, or if he does, it will be an inconsequential role. I can't remember where (some long-forgotten convention), but senior producer Fernando Melo said that the OGB issue would be revisited, and that we would see "what happened". Notice the use of the past tense. '''Happened'''. If the ritual was completed, the kid's either dead, or Morrigan or Flemeth body-snatched him. <span>{{User:King Cousland/Sig}}</span> 16:03, December 18, 2011 (UTC)
I used to be an advocate of the retconning argument, i.e, the OGB would appear no matter what. Now however, I'm more inclined to agree with those who say that he won't appear at all, or if he does, it will be an inconsequential role. I can't remember where (some long-forgotten convention), but senior producer Fernando Melo said that the OGB issue would be revisited, and that we would see "what happened". Notice the use of the past tense. '''Happened'''. If the ritual was completed, the kid's either dead, or Morrigan or Flemeth body-snatched him. <span>{{User:King Cousland/Sig}}</span> 16:03, December 18, 2011 (UTC)
a boy probably. named Damian.--[[User:Master-at-arms|Master-at-arms]] ([[User talk:Master-at-arms|talk]]) 04:23, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

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Forums: Index > Lore Discussion > What is The Wardens and Morrigans child
Note: This topic has been unedited for 3123 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not continue it unless it really needs a response.

This is a question thats been bugging me since DAO came out. What is The Wardens and Morrigans child since it contains the esents of a archedemon is it perhaps a darkspawn human (in my wardens case) hybrid or perhaps something utterly different then anything thats been show

It's NON-CANON... that's what the child is. I just want to state that fact straight away as there are too many people who are so certain that this Old God Baby is going to show up and play a central role in future games. But in answer to your question, it's not fully explained exactly what the child is. In Witch-Hunt Morrigan describes the child as "an innocent" and that it isn't aware of the destiny that awaits it. I think the child just has the essence of the Old God in it, meaning that one day it may gain the powers of the Old God or something like that, I don't think the Old God is fully reborn as such though. I am certain that if you upload a save game where the OGB was conceived then it may be revealed exactly what it is at some point, but for now it is a mystery. (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 20:22, January 28, 2011 (UTC))

Long answer: More than likely it would be a human with the untainted soul of an Old God, and would more than likely have magical powers well surpassing the norm of any known being thus far seen in Thedas. Morrigan probably has inside informantion given to her by Flemeth to what her true plans were for the child, but as far as we know Morrigan(perhaps the Warden as well) has disrupted Flemeth's plans for the time being.

Short answer: We do not know and will probably never know, because the Old God baby is not canon so it is unlikely it will ever appear as a major plot element. DeltaEcho (talk) 20:26, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah we'll know at some point, it's too interesting to leave it blank. Like if you actually want to save the world, you'd better have had the OGB. Or conversely, if you did have the OGB, Thedas is doomed because it will grow up to be an evil bastard or something. It's a pivotal moment in series, without question. I can't imagine it being like a playable character though. Only integral to the growing story.The Grey Unknown (talk) 21:26, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well in my Wardens case he wont be a evil bastard since my wardens the ultimate nice guy and he got reunited with morrigan in the end of witch hunt so if he will be a character in future dragon age games his aditude might be influenced by if he was raised by i slightly less power hungry morrigan (in my case anyway) and by a good warden father. -

imo, The group that insists the OGB is not canon is as asinine as the group that insists it is canon.

I'm not about to insist it must be canon. I am about to clarify that it could be at some time made canon, if the devs chose to do so. And that decision would not violate anything the player chose to do. Or break any sort of vague rule the player may think exists in regards to the creation of the OGB.

The creation of the OGB could happen without direct consent of the player. There are possibilities, for one the player is not the only Warden around. The player is not aware of what Morrigan does 24/7. Also perhaps the ritual only saves a Warden's life if consent is granted? Even without that, if you say no to the OGB ritual, but had sex with Morrigan prior to the offer then Morrigan can still be pregnant. The game acknowledges this. So who's to say that she could not complete another version of the ritual to draw the Old God soul from the Archdemon under those circumstances? We don't know what she does if you don't take her offer. She leaves. Anything can happen prior to the Archdemon dying at that point.

Okay, your first mistake is in assuming that no one ever players a female Warden, or a male Warden who doesn't romance Morrigan. Now, as to your comments, none of that makes any sense. The OGB HAS to happen with consent of the player. No DR sex happens otherwise! Unless you're suggesting that after being told no, she rapes either Alistair, Loghain, or the Warden in order to impregnate herself anyway...oh, wait, no, that doesn't happen. Seriously, now. And those are her only available Wardens. Three in all of Ferelden. Unless you want to suggest that she is able to get to Orlais or the Anderfels or somewhere else just in time to seduce or rape another Warden before the battle!? As for the possibility that it only saves the Warden's life if there is consent? Seriously, did you even bother to think any of this through before typing it? What saves the Warden's life in this scenario is the archdemon's soul passing through the taint into the unborn baby instead of the Warden. Consent has nothing to do with it. The suggestions you raise as possible ways around a player's decision not to give Morrigan her DR are ridiculous in the extreme, and frankly, the one about consent is a slap in the face of players who refused the ritual. I doubt Bioware is going to write a storyline into future games that completely disregards and dismisses such a pivotal choice of many players. Tabriel Cousland (talk) 00:05, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

There are entirely valid opportunities for the writers/devs at BioWare to install the OGB as canon without worrying about what we decided as players. This does not invalidate our decision either. If you chose not to do it, your Warden made a choice for whatever reason and stuck to it. Morrigan doing something behind your back doesn't make your stance meaningless. If you go into a store with your best friend and your best friend says, "Let's rob this place." And you say, "No! I'm outta here." And then your best friend robs the place anyway that doesn't mean you are suddenly a thief. You made your stance. Your best friend just carried out what they wanted. And while your best friend wanted your help, guess what? Turns out they didn't need you at all.

So again, The OGB doesn't have to be canon, but the possibility that it could be is valid. :)

As to the OP's question: The OGB is not the soul of a darkspawn merging with a human soul. The Archdemon is a taint corrupted Old God. Morrigan's plan is to use a Warden's soul to annihilate the taint from the Archdemon's soul, returning that soul to it's original pure Old God form. That cleansed Old God soul then merges with soul of Morrigan's and Sperm Donor's child. This does not destroy the soul of the child. The child is who the child will be but it is also now more that it was. It is an Old God as Human. Now the only question, unanswered as it is, remains to be... If the Old God Baby storyline returns then what does Morrigan intend to do with this Old God? No one knows.

--Zambingo (talk) 22:04, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

"if you say no to the OGB ritual, but had sex with Morrigan prior to the offer then Morrigan can still be pregnant". Yes but if you played a female Warden who denied the ritual then it becomes less likely. That said, I do agree with those who think it is a fascinating potential part of the story and it would be neat if Bioware found some fun ways to bring it back up. I can think of a few ways they could write it into the story without destroying the choice that any male or female wardens made but it would be tricky. Millahnna (talk) 01:25, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
Not entire true that the OGB and DR are not interdependent. In only one stituation can the DR not be preformed but the OGB is still possibly exists. If the Warden kills the archdemon and dies, then imported into Awakening then the Warden is alive. Morrigan could've done the ritual is AListair behind the Warden's back (why? how? questions for the ages (no pun intened.)) Any other stituation the old god soul is destoryed by Alistar or Loghain or the DR is preformed.CrowInvictus (talk) 11:01, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

There's no way of knowing whatsoever if the child will be good or bad. How you, or even Morrigan raises the child, if it's really even a child, may not matter at all. Who's to say the Old God simply does not reassert itself and then just does whatever it feels like? And canon or not, the DECISION to have it, or not, will play a part. It's too important not too. Being the god of beauty I'm thinking he will be like a cross between the most powerful, pretty boy, mage imaginable and Quagmire when he grows up...

On a side note, thanks Zambingo. You just named my next warden. Sperm Donor Cousland. The Grey Unknown (talk) 22:28, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Ok seriously i didnt know some many of you guys would respond negatively to this so il just get it out there. WHY WOULD BIOWARE GIVE YOU THE CHOICE OF HAVING A KID WITH MORRIGAN THAT HAS THE POWER OF A FUCKING GOD IF IT WAS NON CANON bioware is the developer of this series and i know that they will answer this question

This is why I hate any "discussion" to do with the OGB, people either refuse to believe it will exist in future Dragon Age stuff or they're so adamant that it will. I'll admit my response was probably not the best to respond with, instantly denying the OGB as canon seems to be a pretty huge as mistake seen as HOW the OGB has (and I quote) "THE POWER OF A FUCKING GOD" and its just too much to ignore. The thing with Dragon Age is all about the player's own interpretation seen as how they are so many different options and scenarios that can be explored and this whole canon argument is one I don't like to get into. I personally would love it if the OGB was canon because my favourite playthrough is the human warrior who romances Morrigan and always performs the ritual and of course the developers could easily bring the OGB into later stuff and make it the most important thing almost as much as they could make Alistair turn into a fucking fairy that sparkles when he's sexually aroused. But Bioware aren't known for piss-poor writing and so the latter probably won't happen. (----)
I shall admit to jumping the gun and I shouldn't have brought the whole canon issue up when answering the question, but whenever the OGB is brought up someone ALWAYS brings the canon issue into it and their hope about it making an importance appearance in later games. I wanted to avoid that... with no luck it seems. (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 23:23, January 28, 2011 (UTC))

Well it will depend on what you did in DAO what the Old god baby is or if it exists, so for me it's a human from my city elf and morrigan with the soul of an old god and I did follow Morrigan through the Eluvian. Why can't people just be happy with the choice they made. Knight Captain Kerr (talk) 23:40, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

I can actually tell you what exactly the god baby is. Unimporant :P PinkOldShoes (talk) 00:35, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

DDragonfly approve +100!!! I'm guessing your comment may tick some folk off however ;) (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 00:40, January 29, 2011 (UTC))

Well, it's tricky subject as it is non-canon. But, it could be something like changing how certain events are played out. I can't give details bue to the fact we less about his destiny (Morrigan udes male pronoans in Witch Hunt) then we accually know about him. Back to the orignal question, questionally powerful, that is the best awnser I can give. Let me clairify my defination of canon in DA context (due to the unique sturcture of the game "canon" is bot as absolute as other games) canon will always occur. I.E. Morrigan's offer, she always gives the offer of the Dark Ritual. Who rules Fereldan's throne on the other hand is not canon because it can vary based on the warden's dections.CrowInvictus (talk) 05:02, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

I swear this new layout will be the end of me...I always forget where the 'page history' button is. Anyhow, that chap with all those caps and swearing in his post, whoever he is, needs to cool off.
About the OGB, it's not canon and it won't be a major plot element. One thing people need to understand is that all things Warden related have grown old and weak to be a major plot element in themselves. However, if the OGB does appear in any of the games as a secondary choice-dependent character, his might be limited to an ally, who might give some additional dialogue, make some sort of boss battle easier, or make a change in the epilogue.
For instance in the game,'The Witcher', if the player kills Abigail during the first chapter, later on, there is some important quest choice that he has to forgo.
So maybe if the OGB exists things might be a little easier for the player later. And one must not forget, that if the player consummates his romance with Morrigan at camp, a son is born, OGB or not.
On the exact topic, if the OGB will exist, he won't be very powerful because that would be game breaking. He will most probably be friendly to the player (otherwise the whole thing seems stupid...kill an evil archdemon to get another evil OGB :P ).
And all that said, I doubt even the writers have it all charted out yet. Most likely they're playing around with ideas as to what must be done. IP no. (talk) 05:10, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Personally I think that if any one can write a vaild story that can change depend on whether or not the OGB exists or not it's Bioware. Also who says that he'll be an ally, he is Morrigan's son so he probly pick some of her less savory traits even with the Warden (assuming that he intervenes) and that he'll be a companion. Flemmeth was powerful, she wasn't game breaking. I believe that the DR choice will have a major impact in future games. What that impact is depends on the choice. Thus ensruing canonicty in the game. You seem just as reasonable as you making "OGB is canon" people are. I'll give you if they force OGB canon is stupid but forcing OGB non-canon isn't better.CrowInvictus (talk) 02:21, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
I can't even see what point you're trying to make aside from simply saying that everything I'm saying is wrong, without giving any reason. As for Flemeth not being game-breaking, it seems that you don't understand what game breaking is. If the OGB is as powerful as Flemeth and fights on the character's side, then all battles (not for the player, but in the actual story of the game) become pointless, because the OGB will be a powerful old god who cannot die. Flemeth wasn't game breaking because although the story tells us that she's most probably alive she doesn't actually reappear in the game as an undefeatable character to challenge the Warden again. (talk) 07:48, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
It's just a disagreement, you didn't give me any facts to refute or argue. ALso, Flemmeth isn't game-breaking as she is a defeatable boss. In the storyline, it depends on how bioware plays it, however it has been shown she took purcations agaisnt dieing, she's not immortal.CrowInvictus (talk) 11:15, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

It appears that our decisions make a difference in the GAME, but no so much in the STORYLINE. After all, they found a way to RetCon Leliana and Flemeth, to say the least ... just sayin M.Dragon (talk) 14:57, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

DragonFly already said it: It's Non-Canon. It's a choice, a thought, a possibility, one side of a story that will not change anything at all as it can't be important. It is a device that the player can use to further their own idea of what happened to their Warden after Origins. That's all it is. Tales Mahariel (talk) 18:07, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Non-canon, bla, bla, bla, the player chooses, bla. I killed Leliana in one of my saves, bingo, there she is all alive in DA2. If you choose try to kill Anders or do anything, forget about it, they can just rewrite over what you did. So the OGB is non-canon until they decide it is canon and just ignore you so there is no point in saying it is non canon. Since DA2 Leliana and Anders (even Sir Pounce A Lot) are canon, who could have said when we had only Origins and Awakening to play? Raoniluna (talk) 19:07, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Andraste's Tits! I'd completely forgotten about this thread. Is it still going after all this time? (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 19:10, August 4, 2011 (UTC))

The thread was dead until some wiseguy decides to come along and delete all content, causing Loliel to revert his edit, thus bringing the thread to prominence on the main page, after which others have replied.Diain (talk) 20:19, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... I just found this page and decided to put my two cents in. Ignoring the canon issue for a moment, I thought of the OGB as more like Paul's sister Alia from Dune- a child with the wisdom, awareness, and maturity of a very powerful entity. What this child may do in their life is up to the child and BioWare. Personally, I find it hard to believe they would leave the option of such a powerful entity to be created without something more coming of it, but it doesn't really matter as BioWare makes good games no matter what. Izzola (talk) 22:07, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I feel the need to say something. Anybody who says the OGB could still exist without the ritual is wrong, because if you don't accept the ritual, either the Warden, Loghain or Alistair die when they kill the Archdemon. Therefore, the Archdemon's soul got destroyed, and therefore, while she may have a child, it doesn't have the Archdemon's soul.

I wulod not recomemnd eevn tyring to aplpy liogc hree. Boiawre rtcennod in Lelaina eevn touhgh she deid. Tehy cuold jsut as ealisy do the smae wtih the OGB. It is lkie taht sutdy taht fonud taht if the fsirt and lsat ltteers in a wrod remiaend costnnat, the ohetrs cuold be argerand in any oerdr yet the huamn mnid culod sltil rezocgnie tehm. Jsut syaing. ----Isolationistmagi 03:02, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Are you drunk or simply bored?Diain (talk) 07:30, December 18, 2011 (UTC)
Bored. I also recently read about a study that said that the human brain could easily recognize any scrambled and in fact read it like the actual word so long as the first and last letters retained their original place. Did it work? ----Isolationistmagi 15:11, December 18, 2011 (UTC)
I read part of it until it gave me a headache for making the effort. Thanks for that. Qalan (talk) 01:58, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Post likes these make mes hesitant to open for fear I'll just face palm and experience immediate regret for reading it... however this time around I was more surprised then anything else... Im not a HUGE advocate that the warden baby is cannon,(its fun to think about) however I'm really surprised by how many people seem to be dead set its not cannon... how many interviews has Laidlaw been in, where he states "the Morrigan issue need to be revisited" (or something to that effect). And why argue over canon? some players killed Leliana after pouring the blood in the ashes yet there she is with Cassandra in 2. Its a moot point..Bioware will do whatever they want, as they have been doing... (that's how we got stuck with da2). Moreso to the point of the actual topic question now; Ignoring whichever warden origin you were (assuming you did the ritual) Look at Morrigan! she's a powerful apostate mage who was raised by an even more powerful apostate...(and the maker only knows wtf Flemeth really is) Morrigan was raised to be the next vessel for Flemeth.. and given whatever Flemeth is, and has done this many times before, magic runs deep in the bloodline. I'm almost certain it'd be a mage, with god like powers... The child is kept in such mystery for THIS very purpose! For all of us to sit around and wonder, theorize, debate etc... I dunno about the rest of you, but for me, Witch Hunt gave me the feeling Morrigan maybe found out what Flemeth really is, the tone of voice was almost scared... I think the child would act as her weapon against whatever Flemeth is, which would explain why she wanted to raise it outside of normal society. Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 08:54, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, to give my opion on this whole non-canon/canon agruement. The decition will mostly likely shape a large portion of Dragon Age to come, however, the OGB seems to be a means-to-an-end for Flemmeth. In other words, a plot device. It is entirely possible that the writers wither have or will come with a continigency for those who did not preform the the DR. Other then, the DR was preformed your coose doesn't matter. Even as someone who's main Warden did the Ritual I'll be pissed off with that root. However, I'll be equally pissed if it's never brought up again. It's one of the largest decitions ever made by the Warden (either doing it or not.) As to what the OGB is exactly, er, ah, hrm...beyond the fade?CrowInvictus (talk) 10:52, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

I used to be an advocate of the retconning argument, i.e, the OGB would appear no matter what. Now however, I'm more inclined to agree with those who say that he won't appear at all, or if he does, it will be an inconsequential role. I can't remember where (some long-forgotten convention), but senior producer Fernando Melo said that the OGB issue would be revisited, and that we would see "what happened". Notice the use of the past tense. Happened. If the ritual was completed, the kid's either dead, or Morrigan or Flemeth body-snatched him. Chantry symbol King Cousland | Talk   16:03, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

a boy probably. named Damian.--Master-at-arms (talk) 04:23, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

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