Forum:What if the Maker is actually a powerful spirit.

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionWhat if the Maker is actually a powerful spirit.

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We've seen all these wild theories on the maker, all ranging from the most absurd and the most amazing ones. Some people on these threads believe he doesn't exist, and others think the elvish ones are the true ones. Nevertheless ignore that prospect for this. What if the Maker was just a powerful spirt. Yes we have that doctrine of the chantry specifying that he created the fade then Thedas (or the world lol). But just looking at it, rationally it would appeal, as it would discontinue the whole godly figure. However what if the races of Thedas (and the world) are just a mere failed experiment that were "not" meant to be. Heck the black city (golden city) is in the fade so it makes sense for him to be from the fade himself? Heck what if the Maker is no single entity but a collection of many "forms". Bring in your theories people about what kind of entity he could be. Demon? Spirit? Heck everything the chantry said cannot be 100% true.Lazare326 (talk)--->

Unfortunately, there's not a lot of solid evidence for any deity-level powers in Thedas. Likewise, there's no guarantee there isn't a deity-level power in Thedas, so make of it what you will. What we have are conflicting reports based on in-universe accounts from the codex. I personally don't want the question answered, as it's more fun to speculate on the subject. I don't see why a particular Fade spirit couldn't theoretically gather enough power to force a world into being over a long period of time, eons maybe, but I do think The Maker as described by the Chantry is kind of a jerk. However the elven gods aren't any better, and frankly I doubt a lot of what I hear about them. The Tevinter Imperium crushed the elven civilization for a thousand years, and you can't say they didn't try to eliminate worship of their slaves' pantheon. That's one of those things anyone can rally a resistance around. "The gods say it's ok, guys, time to shank some guards and magisters!" What little we know about the elven gods we get from the Dalish, who have never struck me as reliable sources due to the fact they don't even know what the elven words they are using mean. That's how thoroughly trounced the elves were by Tevinter, their language as a whole died over the generations and what's left is used like Japanese words in badly written anime fan-fiction. That is, all over the place with no regard for real accuracy just so long as it sounds like it fits. But I'm getting away from the topic. I kind of like the idea of a gestalt of spirits/demons making the world over a long period of time as an exercise/hobby/why-the-hell-not moment, then losing the ability to shape it as it fully forms into the world that Thedas exists on. Spirits shrug and watch what happens like we do TV, but demons still want to play with their toys, so they go on in and troll the mortals. That's my opinion anyway, I could be wrong and probably am. --DavetheExile (talk) 23:23, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

I like your point about a collection of demons/spirits making the world over a period of time and loosing control of it. But this way it makes sense to include the maker, elven gods, and Fen'Harel. Lazare326 (talk)--->

Ooh, good point <looks sheepish>. But it gives me an idea. That sort of thing could set up a situation like the Thieves World setting. In that world, gods exist but Need Prayer Badly. If their followers stop worshipping, they lose power and eventually die when they are forgotten. So you have gods giving patronage to mortal empires, and as those empires rise and fall, so too do the gods. That would be neat, because except for the Talos thing in Skyrim, you don't see it a lot in fantasy settings. --DavetheExile (talk) 23:51, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he never existed." In this case "they" never existed. I think Fenharel comes into it majorly here and frankly your point is brilliant about the thieve world. The elven gods were "ambushed" almost be Fen'Harel thus, they are only worshipped by a minority thus may be in a weak state. Locked up in the black city? Maybe. The Maker in some eyes may be Fen'harel. Possibly having people like Andraste and maybe Flemeth as tools to supplement his power in their unless one or the other was it. Hmmm interesting.

Lazare326 (talk)--->

1.) Or the Maker is a newbie spirit who took advantage of the fact the elven gods were weak and the Old Gods weren't really gods but demon-possessed dragons. He slid himself into place, took credit for some stuff via a good-hearted, deceived barbarian girl, and bam, instant religion!

2.) Or the Elven gods died when Tevinter stomped Arlathan because they were eaten by the Old Gods, who consumed them to increase their own power. The Maker is a powerful spirit who had enough of their guff and decided to do something about it, but had enough Zeus in him to be distracted by a chick in fur clothing. The Chant was purely a byproduct of what amounts to a deific booty call on his way to sealing the Old Gods in a spirit-proof prison in Thedas. The girl, not being an idiot, uses the fact she "knows" a god to rally tribes to a banner and kick the Imperium in the jimmy 'cause screw those guys. Things are going well until the Imperium catches her and burns her at the stake. The Maker, whistling and brushing his hands off after finishing the Old Gods' new brickwork, comes back for a quickie only to find those rotten little Old-God-Empowering jerks making airborne carbon powder of his girlfriend. He says "Screw it, I'm out", not knowing the reason he's gotten strong enough to face the Old Gods is because he's got a lot of followers now. He just thinks he's awesome like that.

3.) Or the elven gods were the Maker making shadow puppets on the wall with his hands.

4.) Or the Maker's there and keeping the elven gods as his slaves. The Dalish worship them, and through them him, thus empowering the humans' god through sheer ignorance.

5.) Or see #4, only in reverse.

Ah, I could do this all night, lol. --DavetheExile (talk) 00:47, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

The maker is one of the most complex beings or entities in the Dragon Age universe. And the whole idea of the Maker not being a single entity but a group of spirits, as well as the elven gods being subjected to the maker. For in that way, the Maker may have made the humans and the elven the, other races. As in the Maker taking over in that whole Zeus thing. Nevertheless, people need to understand that Bioware have made religion in Thedas very very important, much like medieval/renaissance Europe. And I see religion playing an active part in the plots of Inquisition and future games. Heck the black cities, there. Maybe inquisition links to that. Lazare326 (talk)---->

Plot Twist, Flemeth is Andraste. Dabuddah (talk) 02:38, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Slowly see this thread turning into another "what if andraste?" or "flemeth is". If anything who's to say flemeth is an old god baby? Who's to say that andraste was one too? ---Lazare326 (talk)>

I had the same crazy theory about Flemeth being Andraste which I told Kate Mulgrew at Fan Expo 2012 and Bioware at San Diego Comic Con 2013. Anyone else have this crazy theory as well?--Unic of the borg (talk) 00:03, January 12, 2014 (UTC)