Forum:Weak companions in awakenings

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I don't know if it is just me, but did anyone feel that the companions in Awakening were just weak characters? The only one I even remotely liked was Oghren and he wasn't even an original character, he just carried over from Origins. Call me crazy but the others just fell far short from what I expected and their dialogue was just plain stupid.--JD (talk) 02:49, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Everyone has their own personal preferences. It's just a matter of who appeals to you. I've enjoyed all the characters so far except maybe for Carver. Sign your posts also. NwolC (talk) 00:10, January 17, 2012 (UTC)nwolC

I loved Anders, Nathaniel and Sigrun. I also found Justice curious, but too alien to understand or sympathize with - the same attitude I had to Sten in DAO. The only character I tried not to mingle with was Velanna.

As for Oghren, I actually did not like him in DAO at all. I had both Morrigan and Leliana in my party most of the time, and when he joined as the third one, his jokes were centered around 'what is under your robes' topic. He disturbed me and was kicked out with no remorse) In Awakening however he suddenly had nice party banter with Anders and I've changed my mind. Asherinka (talk) 00:22, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

I liked all of the DAA characters, except Velanna. And, I think most people liked DAA Anders better than DA2 Anders. If I leave out DAO characters, I'd rank the characters from DAA and DA2 in this order: Isabela, DAA Anders, Varric, Merrill, Aveline, Nathaniel, Bethany, Justice, Sigrun, Carver, Tallis, DA2 Anders, Velanna, Mhairi (though I hesitate to even rank her due to limited time in party), and Fenris. Yep, I hate Fenris. If I had to listen to him have a conversation with Isolde, I think I'd opt for a bullet in the brain first. LVTDUDE (talk) 01:01, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

The companions in DAA is not weak. But comparing to DAO, yes indeed. Zevran and Leliana are way better rogue than Nathaniel and Sighrun. Morrigan better than Velanna. Justice and Anders aren't weak, Justice were spirit from the fade while Anders escaped from Tower seven times (plus a Blood mage, if you pick the specialization). Oghren, well, he's not an original DAA character. --Boy2elf (talk) 05:16, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm one of those odd people who strongly prefers DA2's Anders to DA:A's. In Awakenings, he's just a watered down Alistair clone, blatantly and not too subtly manufactured to pander to numerous Alistair's fans. I didn't like the latter, so didn't like the former either, but it has apparently worked on the majority. Oghren I like everywhere, loved Sigrun a lot, Justice's cool, Velanna can't go die in a fire soon enough, and Nathaniel I liked best hanged by my Cousland (he was so v. boring alive as a full party member on the second run). All in all, I agree with you - that pack is much weaker than either O's or 2's. Dorquemada (talk) 08:15, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

I think the main reason behind people considering the characters from awakening to be 'weak' is the fact that you barely have any time to get to know them, especially without the fully fleshed-out questioning system in Origins. All in all though, they are all still interesting characters and invoke some sort of emotion out of you. A lot of people seem to think that the weak characters are the ones they hate, but that's still causing you to react to them in some way. A bad character is one that you don't care about at all, don't care that they are cruel or stupid, or that they are enticing, funny people. The characters in awakening, imo, had me caring about them, although not to same degree in Origins and DA2, but I say that's down to not being given enough time to properly know them. They all develop in some way and they are all quite strong characters. That's what I think anyway. Evalunel (talk) 11:45, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Ha thats what I was about to say, very nice summary! Yes I think they seem weak because we never get as much time with them. In origins each character had several conversations big and small ones, in Awakening we only have 2 or 3 chances to really talk with them and even then it is not a topic of your choice. And as you said too, hating a character is a good thing, as long as the character invokes some kind of feeling from you whether it is hate, love, awesomeness, etc the character has done thier job, the ones you forget or just don't care about are the real bad or boring characters. MrRexfire (talk) 12:15, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, good call Evalune- about the weak characters vs. well developed characters that you hate. For instance, I hate Anders. But I understand his actions and motivations, I kill him anyway, but I understand him. Whereas I think Tallis is just a bad character, and am seriously disappointed in Hawke's inability to tell her to go straight to hell, and fight her. As for Awakening, I think all of the characters had potential, but you don't get to talk to them enough for them to develop. Even Velanna could have been decent if there had been space to develop a relationship between her and Nathaniel. I really did miss being able to talk to my companions whenever I wanted- and the same goes for DA2.--Liam Sionnach (talk) 03:42, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Seconded (or "thirded"?). "Weakness" or "Strength" of a character is mostly determined by the amount of script the devs put into him/her. Awakening had very little, and "I find tattoos on women incredibly attractive" is a good example. Still, I liked all the characters, especially Velanna. All of them have a lot of potential, which can be and has to be developed (Anders' was). Too bad that we would highly unlikely see it developed, as all the rest may end up dead. Just a thing to remember: Nathaniel was actually planned to be instead of Sebastian, but was replaced in order to avoid retcons. *Sigh* better if he wasn't replaced. -Algol- (talk) 07:12, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

I did not know that! Wow, Nathaniel would have been such a great asset to Hawke's team. Shame we had to get Sebastion instead, he was my least favourite character of DA2. :( Nathaniel had to be the most interesting character of Awakening, I loved his transition from the revenge seeking attitude to when he realises the truth behind what horrible things his father had done. *Sigh* Oh well. Evalunel (talk) 00:06, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I wonder how they would've tackled the revenge and "taking back what's mine" motiff if Seb was replaced by Nathaniel. Surely we all remember what faction currently owns former Howe property, do we? ;-) As for characters being as strong as well they are developed, I thought it was self-evident, no? I mean, what else can be fictional people defined by? Dorquemada (talk) 08:37, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the had another motiff... "I mean, what else can be fictional people defined by?"- fan fiction about fictional people to fictionalize them further to add to the fiction:) By this I mean, that even undeveloped characters can earn a good deal of dedication from their fans. Cullen, for example, is a deity worshipped by a whole fangirl cult:) (no offense intended). As I've said, I liked Velanna, for another example. So the amount of script is crucial in most, but not all, cases. -Algol- (talk) 08:53, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Velanna may have had potential, I can give her that. Cullen, on the other side...gotta be looks and/or voicing. And most likely that crush he allegedly has on female mage Warden. And the fact fangirls of the squee-romance kind aren't exactly renowned for logical, rational thinking. Dorquemada (talk) 09:50, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Perfectly right in point 1) and 2), and mostly in 3) :D I don’t read these much but they can be very entertaining, be it intentional (LibraMoon’s Rumours, which I have advertised elsewhere) or not (a scene with Cullen pleasing Amell with one hand while wriggling out of his full plate and clothes with the other, which is, IMHO, a feat comparable to Andraste’s second coming)--Ygrain (talk) 11:14, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

About Cullen's crush on female mage Warden. When I was 12, my attempts to express my feelings to a girl were less pathetic... But the guy has his own cult with minimum script, so being as strong, as developed, is one of the exceptions here:)-Algol- (talk) 13:40, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Also agree to Evalunel. As for Cullen, I'm a girl and I don't like him at all. I guess I do not belong to the fangirl cult :( Asherinka (talk) 07:26, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Good for you:) As a proud member of Morrigan Fanboys (and some Fangirls) Cult, I can tell you, that cults are dangerous:) -Algol- (talk) 13:40, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Morrigan is my second favorite character in the entire franchise. So I guess I'm still doomed) Asherinka (talk) 14:00, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to the club :D --Ygrain (talk) 14:24, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

And who's the first, if I might ask? -Algol- (talk) 14:36, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'm one of those odd people who really like Anders) Asherinka (talk) 15:01, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

For me, there is actually no single No 1 favourite character, since that place is jointly occupied by Alistair and Morrigan - the former as my Cousland's best buddy, the other as his femme fatale. - To avoid possible confusion, I'm female :-)--Ygrain (talk) 15:14, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'm one of those people who really like Anders too, to avoid possible confusion, I'm male and romanced Merrill in DA2 xD. For what I liked Anders, is that I didn't see much of Justice/Vengeance in him. I saw the same Anders, but tortured and pushed, pushed and pushed too far. And I applauded to his "Enough!"-Algol- (talk) 15:41, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

The lack of companion interaction in the Awakening definitely sucked, especially with Nathaniel and if you play a Cousland. There was so much left unsaid, such undercurrents unexploited!--Ygrain (talk) 13:05, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Definitely! Since my Cousland was largely disappointed with such tiny bits of politics in Awakening, that he even began to think of arranging a marriage between Fergus and Delilah, to unite one of the most prominent noble families of Ferelden into one. Of course, Delilah is taken, so to speak, but who knows, what might happen (nothing evil planned!)... I mean, he has already successfully arranged a marriage between Alistair and Anora, why not try to pull this one through? But then Witch Hunt came out, and, finally, he was able to have his own honeymoon.

And Sigrun! The whole concept of Legion of the Dead is made of pure awesomeness!-Algol- (talk) 14:36, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

It was such a shame that Brewing Conspiracy was so quickly and easily offed! It could easily have been the fourth main quest; battling enemies on two fronts is way more interesting.--Ygrain (talk) 15:14, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

My main problem with DAA character wise is the Warden-Commander. Origin doesn't seem to matter much if at all. Nathaniel and a human noble warden is just one example. I had to do a double take when Velanna called my Dalish warden a shem. Don't think anyone mentions that an imported dwarven Warden is a Paragon. Most of the Warden-Commander's comments to Oghren and Velanna are rude/insulting, making it difficult to attempt to build a friendship. Plus a dead Warden can be imported with no reason given for why/how s/he was resurrected. I was surprised how much I ended up liking Nathaniel. The change in his attitude once he found out what his father did and seeing how he turned out in the end. He proved to be worthy of being called noble. Sigrun was funny and lightheartedly morbid. I hope to see more of her in the future. Velanna is so bad, even my nice Dalish Warden would be at least tempted to call her a knife-eared bitch. I'd expect her to act like that with a human warden but dwarven and even elven? The way she treated non-human Wardens just didn't make sense to me. Though some of the party banter with her was funny. Her getting defensive about her ears being clownish, Oghren telling her dwarves hatched from rock eggs and Sigrun laughing at her for believing Oghren. Nathaniel actually seemed to get through her human hatred once or twice. Anders I think was a good example of how Templars can turn someone that just wants to be left alone into the very thing the Templars wish to prevent. He was more Aequitarian/Isolationist in DAA. He thought he'd found freedom with the Wardens but the Templars still hunted him. That anger mixed with Justice's influence turned him more Libertarian/Resolutionist. Justice was already desiring vengeance before he joined with Anders, and his desire for vengeance mixed with Anders and the taint could have just made everything that much worse. Then you add in Kirkwall screwing with people's heads and anything could happen. It sounds like Kirkwall made Cullen sane and everybody else insane.--Vampire Damian (talk) 15:11, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Seconding your assessment of Velanna and especially Nathaniel, he comes right after the stellar pair mentioned above :-) Though, up till the very end, I was unable to forget he was Howe's son. I didn't resent him for that but the notion was simply still there. --Ygrain (talk) 15:18, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, wait, wait... I never recall Velanna calling my Dalish Warden a shemlen. During the first encounter with her it was "Andaran atish’an, brother, why do you travel with shemlen?", neither her treating my Dalish Warden as a human. So about Velanna, first and foremost I liked her outspokenness. Even my human Warden would be the first one to admit, that too many humans, well, are scum. Then, I deeply sympathize with the elves in DA. And finally, she's a powerful offensive mage, and all my Wardens built their tactics as mages being a cornerstone.-Algol- (talk) 15:41, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

strange...DAA is pretty glitchy though (for me at least), maybe it just messed up and didn't recognize the origin for some reason. I can't seem to do much in DAA without some kind of annoying glitch happening. I might just have to redo DAA with my imported Dalish Warden to see if it happens again. I agree that too many humans are scum, especially in Thedas. I think Thedas would have been better off had the humans and kossith stayed where they came from and left the elves and dwarves alone. I sympathize with the elves but Velanna needs an attitude adjustment, even her own clan knew that. She's let her anger and hatred consume her. I would have liked to have seen a relationship grow between her and Nathaniel, felt like there was some good potential there. --Vampire Damian (talk) 16:10, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

A glitch might have occured, probably. Or we've had different patch versions installed. As for her and Nate, I agree, both are Wardens now, so race isn't really an issue. No matter what race you were before, if you survive the Joining, your race is officially half-darkspawn.

Funny though, Velanna was the one who made my 'canon' Cousland Warden make up his mind about his stance on dominant religion. One one hand, he was brought up in a noble traditionalistic family, who revered the Maker and Andraste. The priestess in the castle chapel always seemed like Varric's "sweet old grandmother" type, than someone like Petrice. He preserved the Ashes (because siding with the crazy cultists was far more worse). But on the other hand, the exalted march on the Dalish, the atrocity called 'the Circle'. Something was wrong. And then, during the conversation by Andraste's statue in Vigils Keep, Velanna said, that she respects this woman as a strong and defiant leader, who fought for what she thought was best. Exactly so. A heroine, a charismatic leader, who changed the world for the best (for a time). But not a prophetess, not a saint. Sometimes it takes an elf to bring a human to his senses:) -Algol- (talk) 16:35, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

That's one reason I could never back the Chantry. They spit in the faces of those they worship. They stole land given to the elves by Andraste and sealed them off in alienages. If Andraste were to come back, odds are she'd call for an exalted march on the Chantry. Andraste fought for peace, not more oppression. I think she was a mage and a heroine but as you said, not a prophetess or a saint. My Cousland Warden was actually the only one I've done that did taint the ashes. I was honestly hoping that if I sided with the cultists that I could use the dragon at some point in the final battle, even if it was just once. Other than learning the reaver specialization there really is no benefit to tainting the ashes. It would've been nice if I could have fed Rendon Howe, Vaughan Urien/Kendalls and Bann Ceorlic to the high dragon. --Vampire Damian (talk) 18:03, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

True and true. The only thing I would disagree is "It would've been nice if I could have fed Rendon Howe, Vaughan Urien/Kendalls and Bann Ceorlic to the high dragon". High dragons are creatures of legend, the ultimate alpha predators. They don't eat shit.-Algol- (talk) 18:42, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

lol good point.--Vampire Damian (talk) 19:10, January 18, 2012 (UTC) Dammit, man, I nearly choked on my wine when I read this! @Vampire Damian, there is but one option: write a fic about it, the idea is definitely appealing :-) --Ygrain (talk) 19:18, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

To me, DAA Oghren is a step back from DAO Oghren. At the party camp in Origins, Oghren was never drunk, yet in Awakening, every other time you talk to him in the keep he passes out drunk. Velanna is definitely my least-favorite companion, barely tolerable if my Warden is Dalish. Sigrun and Justice are cool, and Nathaniel is surprisingly likeable. And I think I may be one of the few who prefer DA2 Anders to DAA Anders. Gruedragon (talk) 00:21, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

You must not have talked to Oghren in Origins much. Every other time I tried he just laughed hysterically, said "Asschabs", then fell on his back. --CommanderCousland (talk) 03:00, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I have never got the "Asschabs" convo out of Oghren. We've talked about Felsi, we talked about what it's like being a warrior in Orzammar, He's taught my Warden how to be a Berserker. Never once has he fallen on his back. Granted, I do Orzammar last, so he is the last companion I get, and as a result I talk to him less than the other companions. Gruedragon (talk) 22:42, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

They do strike me as a bit weaker than in Origins, though as an earlier poster commented that may be due to not having as much time to get to know them. In any case, Oghren really shone through for me as my favorite -- he already had some characterization from Origins (though none of my Origins Wardens ever talked with him much), and the writing for him was hilarious. Somebody above mentioned that DAA Anders was a replacement for Alistair, but for me it was Oghren who slipped into Alistair's role, both as the party tank and as my Warden's buddy. Of the rest ... Nathaniel was a little boring and excessively gloomy, but he also accepts the Warden too easily for it to really feel realistic. DAA Anders often comes across as whiny to me -- he's got something of Alistair's sense of humor, without Alistair's good nature and underlying nobility to go with it. Velanna is *way* too tightly wound, and I'm not really interested in hearing about the plight of the elves -- I have more pressing concerns, like darkspawn! I did really like Sigrun and I wish it was easier to get her out of her quest to die. Finally, I don't really have any opinions about Justice. I recruit him late, and combined with the fact that he is pretty alien, that keeps him from making much of an impression. Diyartifact (talk) 07:34, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

I played the games in the reverse order, and I don't get that DA2 vs DAA Anders distinction. IMHO DAA Anders is no more different from DA2 Act1 Anders than DA2 Act1 Anders - from Act3. What puzzles me most is why people call him 'light-hearted' in DAA. I've got an impression that throughout DAA he is trying to ward off his previous negative experiences so hard that it becomes superfluous and painful to watch. He's just been released from a solitary confinement and longed for people. So he won't stop talking and joking around for a moment. Yet the Warden sometimes witnesses his abrupt mood swings. The last 25 seconds of this conversation sum up his DAA character for me. Asherinka (talk) 09:05, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

   I loved the Awakening companions. I might even say I like them more than the Origins companions. Probably because I feel more of a connection with them since they are Grey Wardens too and not just followers. Nathaniel is definitely my favorite. Even though he hates you at the beginning, he is not too proud to admit the error of his ways after learning the facts about what happened to his family. He even can look past the fact that you are his father's killer and becomes a friend. He's exactly the kind of guy you would want to have under your command, a guy who knows there is a time and place for everything, a guy who knows when he's right and when he's wrong. plus he's one of the few who stay loyal to the Grey Wardens after Awakening is over.

I also really like Velanna. She's a little crazy at the beginning, but helping her overcome her prejudice is fun as a Cousland Warden and she has the best banter IMHO. Especially with Nathaniel.

Anders is great. He's jovial and clever, and his jokes are light-hearted (most of the time) whereas in DA2 his jokes are sarcastic and often cutting towards the people he's joking with. Not to mention he doesn't hit on you before knowing what your sexual preference is, then get offended when he finds out you aren't the same sexual preference as he is.

Overall, I loved the Awakening companions. After my first playthrough of Awakening, I would have said that they were weak, but after several playthroughs I realized that there is a lot of depth to them, especially considering how short the campaign is.--Legitimatebusiness (talk) 11:03, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Indenting without using colons to do so causes the box of text. Just an FYI. LVTDUDE (talk) 02:51, January 22, 2012 (UTC)