Forum:Theory on Flemeth. Unsure if this idea is new or not.

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionTheory on Flemeth. Unsure if this idea is new or not.

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Okay, this is my first every post of this sort, so please, if you would, take it easy on me.

Now, I was playing DAO so that I could import into DA2, when I got to Morrigan's dark ritual. And suddenly, a thought came to me. Now, this thought might not be original, I've never heard it from anyone else, so I apologize if this has already been discussed. Why in the world would there be a ritual to capture an Old God's spirit in a baby? It can be argued that maybe Flemeth created this ritual, but what would her motivation behind it be? I mean, creating the ritual in the first place. There's also the fact that Morrigan and Flemeth seem sure it would work, but you can never be sure something would work unless you've tested before, right? And then, it occurred to me, what if this ritual wasn't new? What of it had been preformed before? What if, Flemeth IS the first subject of this experiment? What if she was the child who had an Old God's soul sealed inside it? Again, I know this is a lot of speculation, but I just felt that I needed to point this to other people, to see their insight on this theory. It would explain her longevity, her overwhelming power, and her expansive knowledge. And Morrigan has said that she isn't a human, abomination, or demon. What else does that leave with the power to shapeshift? Not much, dragons maybe, but improbable, but Old God's? Maybe, just maybe. But, I just wanted to share my thoughts, maybe they aren't well thought out, but it's an entertaining thought, is it not? Thanks for the time 98.232.212.153 (talk) 05:47, April 1, 2011 (UTC)Bloody Seraphim

Your theory is as good as any at this point. Nobody that don't work with the DA games can say what she actually is, but your theory isn't bad. Compared to one I saw about her being Andraste it makes sense. --Tommtho (talk) 06:29, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

I have long had the suspicion that Flemeth has the soul of an Old God, but I had to wonder how. Was she always an Old God? Was she once a human that got possesed by one? Your theory provides one of the better, and most likely, answers to this question. Well done. TrooperOnasi (talk)

Yeah, this theory would explain a lot... and I do give it the credit of most possible for now ,except mine of course :D But to the point. There comes to mind who would have done such ritual and more importantly how he had learned it? The only one interested in the OldGods were the Tevinter Imperium. Flemeth does not seem to have any interest in influencing them. What is more we do know that it must be done whit a woman and a man, one of them tainted... I'm not sure weather there were suppose to be some kind of magical preparation, but if not it is possible to true by accident. But as far as I recall her being called by the Dalish with name meaning she is very old and noone remember her begining it is more likely that she exists before even the Blight... Belov 07:23, April 1, 2011 (UTC)

You have an excelent point, Belov, who created the ritual if Flemeth did not? Maybe a Tevinter Mage wanted to harness the power of one of their old deities? Maybe said Tevinter Mage was a Grey Warden? Creating a new spell isn't necessarily hard, there's just no guarantee that the result will be what you want. As for Flemeth, she doesn't particularly seem to care about the outside world much, though her repeated involvement with Heros might prove otherwise. As for the ritual itself, yes, I vaguely remember Morrigan saying something along the lines of preparation, and there's also the fact that it's a ritual, which itself implies some sort of preparation, so I'm pretty sure this was not an accident. Asha'bellanar means one of many years, but that' doesn't necessarily mean she's as old as Arlathan. Her stories only started appearing, what, two hundred years or so before the beginning of DAO? While she may have hid before this, there would likely still be whisperings about a 'Witch of the Wilds,' or some sort. But then again, what do we know of Flemeth truly besides the fact that's she's extremely powerful, manipulative, and not a human, demon, or abomination? Sadly not much, so I really hope someone explains Flemeth soon xD 98.232.212.153 (talk) 05:19, April 2, 2011 (UTC)Bloody Seraphim

She is a mystery, a great power, a warning, and the last thing you see before you die...... at least thats what I read somewhere. CentiumCuspis (talk) 07:38, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Many think like this. You don't know it seems, but there are probably a hundred threads on Flemeth and what she is or may be. This one's come up a lot too. So much so many won't comment much anymore (me) or will decry the fact that new people are rehashing the arguments. Keep going though. Most of us do still read them. The Grey Unknown (talk) 13:21, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

To quote her from DA2 when asking Fenris' opinion of her on Sundermount. Well, I say "quote", I can't exactly remember the full quote, but this is the basis of it "I am a whisper in the dark, I am (makes another metaphor here). I am also an old, old woman. More than that you need not know." Which I think sums it up. Although I do like your idea, because you haven't just said she's an outright Old God, like most people seem to think, but rather a child born to the Dark Ritual. Which is new I think, and like I said, I like it. But we can keep speculating until our minds shrivel up. The truth of it is, we'll never know what she is, until BioWare decide they're ready to let us know. Weak Spot (talk) 14:22, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm... Interesting theory. The only point I can think of against it is that, if I'm correct, there aren't many souls of Old Gods floating around - from memory, there are seven, and five of them have already been involved in blights...

By Morrigan's ritual, this would therefore mean that Flemeth would *have* to be one of the souls of one of the Old Gods who have come before. According to the wiki page, we've had the gods of silence, chaos, fire and slaves (she can't be the fifth (beauty), he lead the blight in DAO). If you ask me, Flemeth doesn't exactly fit into any of these roles too well, especially when the two left over are 'mystery' and 'night'.

Its a great theory though, and it would make a lot of sense, especially if Flemeth was then able to split that power up and thus put it into the amulet for DA2 Delta 088 (talk) 14:26, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

You don't think Flemeth's personality is chaotic? If this theory were to be true, then I could see that being the Old God's soul she possess, whichever one that may be. Weak Spot (talk) 14:29, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

For my money, this theory is right on it. I totally think Flemeth is the original Old God Baby now. Question for you Lore-heads... are Flemeth's "daughters" really her blood daughters? I don't think Morrigan, for example, was actually her daughter. But if she indeed is... that adds alot to this story, since she would have the blood-taint needed to transfer an archdemon's essence. But this thing totally makes sense. (X 4.2.2011 @ 11:39pm EST)

I like this theory i really do it explains a lot but i just cant grasp thing: if shes an old god why would sh ewant to stop the blight? now she says (after she rescues the warden from the tower) that if somebody didnt stop the blight than it would consume everything even her. So that gives me two choices as to what she wanted to happen 1) he lied to the warden so that he would go out and stop the blight(why would an old god want to end the blight?) or 2) she really would be overwhelmed by the blight (how can an old god be overwhelmed by their own mindless subjects)nand explanation in this would ement you flemeth theory to me and many others im sureSrcmdy (talk) 04:29, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

@Srcmdy, one reason why she would want to stop the Blight is answered through a simple fact: Being an Old God dosn't make you an Archdemon. According to Morrigan, the way the Dark Ritual works is that when the Archdemon is slain, it is not the Archdemon's soul but the original untainted Old God's soul that enters the child. If Flemeth was born of an Old God's soul, as this theory says, then she would have no power over the Darkspawn and likely would have perished because only a tainted Old God (the Archdemon) has power over the horde. That is likely why she would have wanted the Warden to stop the Blight, though I'm sure there may be other reasons. TrooperOnasi (talk)

I also once considered this theory myself, it would explain how Flemeth learned the ritual, however after reading some other theories on this forum I began to find a few holes in it. First of all Flemeth and Morrigan never actually lied to my face. They conceal information, tell half truths, and manipulate people, but I honestly can't recall a situation in which they fully lied to me. With that in mind I'm willing to take Morrigan's story of Flemeth's origin as the truth. Second, the Old Gods and Archdemons are often refered to as "he". It's something I noticed after a few playthroughs of Origins, and it stood out to me since high dragons are supposed to be female. The OGB as well is born a male, regardless of your own actions, if he contains the Archdemon's soul it makes a certain kind of sense that he would also be of the same sex. I still think this is a fairly valid theory, or it's at least heading in the right direction. --Orin Aeducan (talk) 07:00, April 3, 2011 (UTC)

@Orin Aeducan, what explanation of Flemeth that Morrigan gives? She explains that Flemeth is neither human, nor abomination, nor demon, this is the only instance I can think of where Morrigan actual explains Flemeth. Any other time would be speculation on Morrigan's part as well, since I highly doubt Flemeth was like, "Oh, this is how I can to be..." kinda thing (Sorry if I sounded snide there, I didn't mean to) so Morrigan explaining her origin doesn't really work. And the child produced from the ritual is a he? I didn't know that, but since a child's sex is determined at conception, this means that before the Old God's soul is absorbed, the child can be either male or female. @Srcmdy, TrooperOnasi is correct, being an Old God doesn't make you immune, though she would most likely become another Archdemon IF she was an Old God. But, my theory is she has the SOUL of an Old God, making her not quite an Old God, but close enough. She's still susceptible to death, as you can tell in DAO when you kill her, and in DA2 when she has the safety precaution because you might have killed her. @Poster who didn't sign xD, Morrigan implies that she is indeed NOT Flemeth's daughter, and it is assumed that her other daughters are not biologically hers either. @Delta 088, I don't necessarily believe that the aspect of the soul of the Old God would affect her personality, as personality is defined by genetics and psychological development. And you're right Weak Spot, we can keep speculating til our minds shrivel, but you have to admit, it's pretty fun to speculate! lol

 What if flemeth is a part of of the Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One group but unlikly

I still cant draw a connection to her being an old god, not without an explanation as to why she is the only old god not trapped underground trying to lead a darkspawn rebellion. I am however, certain of a connection between her and the old gods, i think she is what the old gods are searching for, the reason the blights scourge the land. I dont see any other reason for the blight than looking for something important to the old gods and darkspawn. Maybe flemeth offers a cure or is the one who keeps the curse alive its hard for me to saySrcmdy (talk) 00:37, April 4, 2011 (UTC)

@ Person who created this thread You should sleep with a weapon next to your bedside because this is a good theory and Bioware will probably send assasins after you because you ruined the plot twist for DA 3. Yash7 (talk) 01:32, April 4, 2011 (UTC)