So I've been thinking about DA2 and its many flaws and changes from DA:O, especially those that pissed off most of the DA:O community, as well as reading people's responses on the forums, and something occurred to me. I completely agree that this game was less than adequate for all the hype it received, mainly because EA rushed Bioware to put it out for financial purposes. But what if something else was at play that caused all the changes to DA? I'm thinking that, while Bioware was rushed and pressured into reaching a new demographic and all that crap, but what if DA2 was meant to be done this way? By that I'm mainly referring to the linear storytelling, and the lack of decision making. I understand that Bioware is known for their decision driven stories, so I was confused as to why they would suddenly shift from that and also defend this shift. What if DA2 was done this way because it was a part of the story that had to be told in a linear fashion? Think about it: DA2 started out with relatively few unresolved conflicts and loose threads (in regards to the DA world as a whole), and yet it ended with so many. DA2 was meant to be the beginning of a much bigger story. This leads me to believe that Bioware wanted to make sure that this beginning was the same for everyone. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see why Bioware would try and turn DA2 into a linear franchise, so I'm hypothesizing that Bioware made DA2 into a "canon" game, if you will, that had a specific plot and characters that set up a much bigger story for future games (and yes, I mean the plural form; I see Bioware being able to segway off DA2 and make many more games). Thoughts? Supreme Dragon (talk) 03:46, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
I agree. DA2 could have been much better, but EA did to it what the movie industry did to Eragon. DA2 was clearly designed to lead into DA3, but I think the story became more linear because it was rushed, and there wasn’t enough time to unify the story while accomplishing that goal. Several of the main quests, particularly in the first act, should have been side quests, but were probably made main quests because the characters and events in the quests led to more important quests later on in the game. It should have been more like how you could search for Nanette in the first act, but dialogue is different if you don’t when you search for the killer in Act 2. 168.103.93.227 (talk) 04:11, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
As I said before, I'm in total agreement with the fact that EA rushed the game out and didn't give Bioware proper development time. I was just theorizing on the possibility that the linear story was Bioware's plan all along for DA2, but not for the future of the DA franchise. Just a thought. Supreme Dragon (talk) 04:19, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
Bioware is part of EA, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the founders of Bioware now senior executives at EA? I doubt there's anyone from EA barking orders at them. They chose to develop DA:II in this fashion. None of this was unintentional. A company that's developed award-winning games for 20 years can't have looked at the reused dungeons, lack of party customization, etc. and said "Surely the players won't notice or mind!".
I agree that DA:II's narrative is a lot more linear than DA:O's, and also that DA:II is meant to be part of a larger story arc in the same fashion as Mass Effect. Unlike Mass Effect, however, Dragon Age was not designed from the onset to be a trilogy with a tight narrative. That's why we see a lot of retconned lore/epilogue decisions and vague story direction. Whocares65 (talk) 07:10, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
To me, I think they've tried to turn DA into a franchise similar to Mass Effect. Clearly the way in which they tried to execute this has not had the desired result with fans, which is a clear indication to the fact that DA was never going to be able to be this. For starters, one of the best things about Origins was the ability to create a very unique character, 10 people could play it and have different experiences, heck it was what it was named after. So why go for a completely different style? It's a more action based game, which obviously isn't what most fans like/wanted. I'm a fan of DA2, but for different reasons to Origins. I like the long, fleshed out game you love to take your time with and spend time in, with a grand story. But I also like the sense of intensity I felt DA2 has, I see it like a dark chocolate, it's richer, but you can't have as much. There's reasons like reusing dungeons and less customisation that detract from that idea, but the fully voiced character and intertwined story are more what I'm thinking. S13Kuro (talk) 14:10, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
This is easy. They did the changes to make the games both easier to make, and to appeal to a potentially wider audience. Faster and cheaper, easier to play, appeal to more people. It's the new BW/EA philosophy. They say it all the time now. ME3 is next and it's been said there as well. It was delayed in part to make it more appealing to a wider audience, EA came out and said this recently. Whether or not that's a good thing or not for these games is opinion of course, and remains to be seen. If you judge by sales, it's a wash with the ME franchise so far, and not working with DA at all. This last game (DA2) clearly made money, but the overall reception and performance on the market is a disaster. But the full effect won't really be felt until after DA3 hits. We'll know then if this was worth it, to them at least. Most of the five million who played DAO clearly don't think so. But we're not going back. I think ME3's reception will be telling here also as Bioware is moving slowly away from what made them a beloved studio towards something new. And they clearly feel this new direction is necessary so it won't change. Expect more of this. We'll see if it works. The Grey Unknown (talk) 15:17, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
- You should really make an account on the BioWare forums and talk it out with Laidlaw and Gaider. Most of your responses are very well thought out and, most importantly, offer content without a basis purely in "da2 sucks wwwaaaaahhhh trololololol". If nothing else, you'll at least call out their BS and get a few more straight, non-diplomatic answers from them.
- Just my opinion, though. Quirkynature (talk) 15:50, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
- I do have an account over there, but only have posted maybe three times. Rayvio's story got a post (awesome job again), A short DA2 review after maybe a month had past and emotions had died down. Probably one or two others, but generally I don't care for the site, or the tone in most threads. From both the fans and the staff. I would not do well talking to Gaider I'm afraid. His posts are condescending as hell. He may have some talent as a writer, but his communication skills are awful. Laidlaw I can't say. He's fixated it seems to me. I don't think anyone's getting through. But that's just my opinion. Thanks, but I can't see it happening. I'm sure they read other sites though. Maybe even post here covertly on occasion. I would. It's biased here too being a wiki for the game obviously, but not as much. The Grey Unknown (talk) 16:14, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
Wee lil' Bioware's all grown up. They're no longer geek devs; they're suits. Where a geek dev would go "Lets try this awesome concept I thought up and if it makes some profit - yay!", a suit would be all "Income/expenses, minmax power, go!" That's why they talk in Marketingese; that's why the game is rushed, that's why linearity - because majority of people will play the game only once anyway, and that's a good thing, because them replaying means they are not buying something else instead, that's why Hawke - "Hey, Shepard worked, lets recreate him". And they are clearly happy being suits, so personally I don't expect their games to get former complexity back. That raises expenses, you know. I'm not blaming them, by the way - if that's their business model, whatever makes them happy. I just find kind of...irritatingly hypocritical when suits blabber about creativity, art and stuff, as it is incompatible with corporate ideology. Dorquemada (talk) 19:52, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
- Maybe I'm going crazy from all this speculation... but dude, your comment totally recalled Hespith's words after the Broodmother keels. Oddly, spookily poignant. Quote Hespith, "That's where they come from. That's why they hate us... that's why they need us. That's why they take us.... that's why they feed us. But the true abomination... is not that it occurred, but that it was allowed. Branka... my love... The Stone has punished me, dream friend. I am dying of something worse than death. Betrayal."
We're like the Darkspawn, except we come from Dark Basements and not Deep Roads. The rest of the quote sums up the love-hate relationship with Bioware nicely. Also, betrayal is what a substantial amount of us feel about DA2... OK, time to shut it. --Flemeth's Broomstick (talk) 08:41, June 5, 2011 (UTC)