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So, with the mage/templar fight, some Orlesian plans to retake Ferelden, odd darkspawn behavior, the Qunari getting a lot of screen time, and Tevinter…y’know, existing, I have to ask:

Who do you think will be (or really, really want to be) DA3’s ultimate bad guy? HELO (talk) 15:16, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

For my part, I’m a fan of war with the Qunari. Mages and templars fight each other, but Qunari fight EVERYTHING. And when’s a better time to strike than when everyone’s looking the other way (that is, paying attention to the Chantry’s problems)? HELO (talk) 15:16, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
^^This. Mages vs Templars. Qunari vs Everything. Chantry trying to bring some semblance of order into the world, and behind the scenes, but looming like a shadow over the future, Flemeth ruining the Chantry.Diain (talk) 16:23, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, the possibilities are many. Another Arishok, or maybe of the other two, Arigena and Ariqun. We'd finally get some Qunari women. Dragon Age desperately needs a proper bad guy, but we already had the Arishok. Maybe the Empress of Orlais? Or one of the Divines, either the Orlais one or Tevinter. Speaking of the Tevinter, maybe the Archon or a group of the original Magisters of the Imperium. Another Old God or Flemeth? The leader of the Seekers maybe? Many choices. I just hope the one they'll make will be a right one. Henio0 (talk) 17:42, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I would love to see the Qunari as an Ultimate antagonist. Have the Qunari be to Thedas what the Ottoman Empire was to Europe (At least during its early expansion years). Also, I would like to see a future game centered on the Qunari-Tevinter War, set in Tevinter, Seheron, and Par Vollen. The Protagonist being a Tevinter Magister, a Kossith/Qunari Warrior, and a Fog Warrior Rogue. The game would ultimately decide the conflict. Outcome 1: Tevinter Conquers the Qunari, Outcome 2:The Qunari conquer Tevinter, or Outcome 3: The Fog Warriors establish and secure their own independent state in Seheron (beating both the Qunari and Tevinter). That would be AWESOME! I do believe though that Flemeth is being built up as the True Villian of Dragon Age. Soren 4ever (talk) 18:03, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

The qunari aren't going to be the main antagonist, there will be a war between the orlais and tevinter chantries with the qunari increasing their offensive against tevinter while at the same time the chantry in orlais will collapse for whatever reason. Then at some point it will be revealed that a cliche evil master mind schemer is behind all the conflict...and I'm sure it will be related to the grey wardens somehow.174.45.9.40 (talk) 18:18, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I would really love it if there were no cliched "ultimate" bad guy in the franchise. That's about all I'm going to say on the matter right now.--Isolationistmagi (talk) 19:21, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Heh, I know I certainly don’t want some mysterious mastermind suddenly showing up and revealing that he “gave the Architect sentience so that he would unwittingly start the Blight, which would force Hawke to go to Kirkwall and protect Anders, who would eventually blow up the chantry and cause the Mage/Templar Rebellions, which would allow the Qunari to successfully invade lower Thedas, which…well, which would make me laugh a little. MWAHAHAHAAAA--villainy!!!” But a good villain for that specific game would help give DA3 some of the focus that DA2 was sorely lacking. Like the darkspawn in DA:O. HELO (talk) 19:44, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

I think any decent ultimate antagonist is going to have some sort of Fade-related or mythology-related origin, like the Archdemon, Corypheus, or the Ancient Rock Wraith. Those have by far been the funnest and most challenging bosses, while Meredith, the Mother, the Arishok take a distant second, in my opinion. I would love to see some situation where the Old God Baby turns into some uber badass and either becomes a part of the team (or the main protagonist!) in DA3 or the main bad guy, or maybe a situation where some of the Circle mages get possessed by really powerful demons and become juiced-up abominations, or something.

OGB is the absolute last thing I want to see as the antagonist in DA3, and that includes a revived Anders. And I can't even tell you how much I hate Anders.--Liam Sionnach (talk) 21:26, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
Seconded, on both counts.174.45.9.40 (talk) 22:32, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Either way, I like knowing who the damn bad guy is early on, like Origins. Meredith was a disappointing antagonist not because her "raw lyrium power" was a ludicrous plot device, but because we just didn't really know that she was the ultimate bad guy until the very end, or even that there was an ultimate bad guy. I enjoy a good "mystery evil doer pulling strings from the shadows" motif as much as the next gamer, but they didn't even bother with that in DA2. Enchantment! (talk) 20:02, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Hell, they could even at least have introduced her before the end of Act II.--Liam Sionnach (talk) 21:29, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
Meredith was the "ultimate bad guy"? Or just the closest thing to it because all she was to me was the last and probably least exciting boss fight.174.45.9.40 (talk) 22:33, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
Meredith would sort of have to have be considered the ultimate boss for DA2, not just because she’s the last one standing, but because the mage/templar conflict was supposed to be the backbone of game, and her iron-fist policies were a very big part of the building tensions. But like so much of the game, this was not clear. The stuff between the mages and templars is everywhere and yet still very peripheral (and in the case of Meredith, completely unseen) for much of the game. Things get much more obvious in Act III, but by then we’ve spent 30 hours dealing with far more pressing issues like the Qunari, the Carta, and a gigantic exploding rock monster. And, honestly, the “Meredith’s a meanie” complaints you hear on the street just don't catch in your mind when you’ve already had to deal with the unholy murder of your mother. HELO (talk) 14:20, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

Most likely various faction leaders will play a part in the game. Empress Celine vs rouge Orlais lords who wish to annex Fereldan. The Qunari Trimvirate vs the Archon and the most powerful memebers of the Senate (who judging by the sound of things are more powerful then the Archon). The Grand Cleric vs the leader of the mage rebellion. These indiviuals will probably switch their relation the the PC depending on choices.

But beyond all of this i feel the true Bid Bad will be either Flemeth, or a powerful force whom Flemeth opposes and has planned to fight using individuals like the Warden and Hawke. This comes mostly from Sandle's prophecy concerning a great being that will return to the earth and restore the lost gift of magic and return the earth to how it use to be. It seems apparent that soem being calling itself Dumat existed and used the Tevinter mages to his own ends. So maybe this being dislikes it when his gift is being used improperly. And now the Templar-mage war is on, the being has no chioce but to intervene and wipe the earth away, replacing it with his own vision.

Something like that.--Ironreaper (talk) 14:55, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

That being called Dumat died, permanently, over a thousand years ago. And resurrection is unlikely, considering that his spinal cord is only 3-4' long, these days. Futonrevoltion (talk) 15:10, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

While Dumat's actions in manipulating the magistars are made clear, there has still been no solid evedience the myth that the Archdemons are old gods is true. The game stresses at point they dont know which bits of the Chantry's story is true or not and what the Archdemons really are. So to assume Corpyus's confession means everything is true is just that: an assumtion.--Ironreaper (talk) 05:20, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I had forgotten about the brewing new trouble between orlais and ferelden mentioned briefly in DA2, that is another conflict to add to the stack of likely plot lines.
Flemeth I just don't see as being the big bad guy, it would just be too obvious she will likely be some form of a good guy trying to maintain the world as existing just like she did with the blight in ferleden. As for dumat as noted above he died in the first blight.174.45.9.40 (talk) 23:07, November 3, 2011 (UTC)
I wouldn't count any of the old gods out just yet. In Legacy if you complete the Altar of Dumat quest you do receive an item from the altar with the end quest text saying "Sacrifices made at the altar of Dumat appear to have pleased the old god. The altar now appears dormant."Seikekyu (talk) 6:35, November 4, 2011 (PST)

I am suspecting it will be the Orlesians, what with the Devine being there and the whole mess with the Templars and the Circle splitting away from the Chantry.--Ser Mea (talk) 17:35, November 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'd kind of like it if they did what they are doing with Mass Effect 3, where your character has to unite the whole of Thedas in combating this one ultimate threat. Yet be kind of like Fallout New Vegas, in which your ultimately fighting for one specific group. Maybe your a Templar who goes to Seheron trying to unite Qunari and Tevinter. Or a Qunari convert traviling to somewhere like Orlais to convince the Empress that you need to work together.--TheRageMage (talk) 21:49, November 3, 2011 (UTC)TheRageMage

While we're all at it, could we maybe do Antiva's next top whore? Tevinter's next top abomination? Fereldan's next top badass? Those would be much more interesting. --Isolationistmagi (talk) 22:48, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to see something mythology/Blight-related -- both to go back toward the theme from Origins, and to make things feel more epic and important. Right now I have a hard time caring about mages vs. templars, or qunari vs. everyone else, and while I like having some moral ambiguity in the story, I prefer to have a clear-cut evil like the Darkspawn as the principal antagonists.

On the subject of Flemeth, I really hope she's not the primary villain. Her characterization so far is really more of a neutral/selfish character. She commits some evil acts (the whole possession thing), but my impression is that she's mainly just interested in staying alive and free. I would *definitely* like to see more of her, though -- especially in the new art style. Diyartifact (talk) 17:21, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Diyartifiact: Flemeth is one of those (lovable and)eternal mysteries of Thedas: Making her an antagonist would break that spell of mystery...it would be good if in DA3 we would discover what she finally is(or has become), but whether for good or ill, would be too late to act on: Perhaps Morrigan? Maybe going into the Eluvian somehow 'altered' her, and some hideous, near omnipotent monster would step back out. But then again, my Warden went in with her, so I'm hoping it's not so. I also like TheRageMage's idea, it could tie in with the mystery of Sandal, Old God Baby, Morrigan, Hawke, The Warden...everything. But does it really have to be a conculsion?Maybe it could make room for a DA4? SunflashTehMace (talk) 21:08, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

You know, I don't understand the need to point to some sort of evil influence causing the mage/templar war and then make DA3 all about attacking that influence. These two factions are naturally going to hate each other and a war between them is inevitable. Slaves revolt. The oppressed rise up. It happens, whether an old god or fade spirit or lyrium sword have anything to do with it or not.

I really hope Bioware is going to be a bit more episodic in its treatment of Dragon Age than, say, Mass Effect. The creators of ME planned a trilogy from the start and have done a good job executing it, but I would love nothing more than to have conflicts like the Mage/Templar war be the backdrop for games in which the primary goal is to battle an uber-powerful Fade spirit, or infiltrate the Qunari and assassinate some key figure, or put down a Grey Warden Rebellion and lay siege to Weisshaupt, or just take over a kingdom or establish an empire. DA2 created a compelling conflict, but that doesn't mean DA3 has to be all about ending it. Let it simmer in the background for a while, and in the meantime new protagonists can rise up all over Thedas and make a name for themselves slaying bad guys, dragons, and demons. Resolve the Mage/Templar war in DA 7 or 8. In the meantime, a world in chaos will be a fun to place to run around and play in.

Just my 2 cents. Enchantment! (talk) 18:25, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

I, too, would like there to be more of an episodic nature to the DA games, and I think we’ll probably see that, for the most part, with the next game. That is, I don’t think the entire purpose of DA3 will be to end the Mage/Templar Rebellions. At the same time, I don’t think BioWare is just going to let it be a backdrop for the game (we’ll undoubtedly have to help Cassandra and the Seekers try to stop the Chantry’s bleeding).
Ideally, DA3 would be a solid, focused, self-contained conflict that brushes up against--but does not dwell on--the various tumults that DA2 (intentionally or otherwise) is supposed to have introduced: rogue mage/templar skirmishes, the Chantry’s moderate/hardliner split, a Grey Warden civil war, stepped-up Qunari conquest, and another Orlesian invasion of Ferelden. HELO (talk) 20:13, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
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