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Okay, with all the fighting and wars going on, you'd think there would be at least one person in Thedas that is working on new and better weapons. How long do you believe it would take Thedas to bring its technology to the next level; the Qunari are already ahead of them with black powder, cannons, and probably some muskets (personal theory). Also, would the Chantry be a problem in this situation?-- (talk) 20:18, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Thedas is behind in technology because of Magic. The dwarves have none and therefore developed other skills. The Qunari treat theirs as much too volatile and have a philosophy that can focus all its adherents. So. Who needs new technology when mages can create magical fountains and glowstones? And blow things up as well. The Chantry uses the mages for this (when it suits them) so they somewhat inhibit technological growth --And the Ranger Chei Spoketh 23:13, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Dwarves have better craftsmen than humans and the have mechanical locks. They use tech because the ydon't depend on magic. Magic is a source of technological stagnation. Magic will eventually be gone and only science will remain. Developing technology is a mean to independence from magic. Limitations are sources of needs, needs are parents of inevtions. You can jump high enough, so you invent ledder; you can't move stone you invent explosive; you can't reach your target you invent long range weapon. Limits motivate people to seek solutions to break them. All what's manmade can be controled and surpass nature. Science makes sentient being superior to animals. (talk) 23:44, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Dwarves do depend on magic - lyrium.
Magic is the source of technological stagnation? Oversimplified and not even true. Considering that magic is science too (it does use the scientific method in Thedas), it all comes down to how magic is allowed to develop. If mages are limited to throwing fireballs on the battlefield by the Chantry, then it is stagnation, but it's not magic to blame for it. If free mages, for example, develop a vehicle with lyrium as it's fuel, or a strain of crops enhanced by magic to be sturdier, then magic would be the catalyst of scientific progress. If the recipe for the weapon Anders used to blow up the Kirkwal Chantry becomes widespread, qunari and their gunpowder can suck a big one. -Algol- (talk) 08:35, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
Another hatemongering propaganda! Humans didn't invent cannons or guns, because they use magic. Dwarves use lyrium as an alchemical substance, not to cast spells. Magisters in Tevinter can't cast powerful spell without blood of slaves or kings. Magsiters didn't invent any vehicle and they don't help farmers by magic in producing eatable plants, the farmers use water system. They can't even undo golem transformation. What Anders used was an alchemical exlposive and he simply set fire on them. Technological evolution requires stop depending on magic and use nature by everyone. World is to be controled by every sentient being and qunari gunpower surpassed dwarven lyrium based. Magic makes everything easier and because of this people don't see any need for making any alternative solution. Not everyone has magic, but everyone can use material objects, which are common everywhere. (talk) 20:57, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't argue with the points because it would mean arguing with literally each sentence, but I'll just ask you two questions:
1) Who or what I was hating here?
2) Is the word "propaganda", like, your favorite or something? -Algol- (talk) 21:27, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
I can kinda understand the point of, "if people rely heavily on magic, there's no technological progression, and I can only assume anon was bringing up the dwarves as an example of saying "they don't have magic so they advanced by creating bombs". However, to 'argue the wind' as it were.... as Algol mentioned, magic is confined within the towers, they're taught what they're ~allowed~ to teach.. which if memory servers is (mostly) war magic. This is by no means a slight against the Chantry's religious structure, but perhaps a slight against it's policies with governing mages. The two are not the same.
Anders proves 2 points imo, mages can create a force greater then dreadnaughts, and if properly trained, why couldn't there be actual clinics within Thedas where mages can not only practice healing but advance it. Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 02:13, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
To heal people from illness is hebralism and surgery. Herbs and steel tools are cheaper than lyrium and can be used by a non-mage. Mage are minority of populations, doctors are needed everywhere and they can be non-mages, who require no lyrium but clean tools. Technology isn't a straight line, focusing on one solution means losing ideas on alternatives. (talk) 08:27, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Forgive me if I'm incorrect here but I don't recall mention of hospitals with doctors who could perform surgery within Thedas. Most commonly when reference to healing, is a mage. Herbalism is commonly practiced by mages, and tho I'm not saying they are the primary healers within Thedas, I'm sure they do a large portion of it. Where does anyone use pure lyrium to heal someone? you've got me confused there as well... I wasnt suggesting we use only magic to heal people, the point here is the same as the one YOU just made, it's not a straight line, and the chantry hindering the process of magical exploration through its policies of running circles LIMITS the exploration that can be done. Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 16:49, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Mages need lyrium and noone else, that's a source of their magic. Magic is the limit, mages believe they can do anything with their magic and they believe they don't need any alternative. Tevinter has no limits, but what have magister invented since Andraste's times? Nothing but spells, they are only for mages, not non-mages. Magic is no technology, it's a force of nature everyone has to become independent from to evolve. (talk) 23:11, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
While the previous poster is trying to get their point across in a totally uncompromising way, magic would cause the rate of development to decrease.Technology comes from having to find a solution to a problem, E.G A hunter can't catch a deer, hence he invents a bow to shoot it, however if that hunter was a mage, he wouldn't have needed a bow. The main difference between rates of technological evolution can be seen by looking at the Qunari, because they limit their mages (,not a good thing in my mind), they have developed several pieces of technology that serve the same function, E'G Gaatlok replaces a mages fireball. My idea would be to use magic as a way of powering technology to possibly create something beyond the sum of its parts. --Halisme (talk) 09:31, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
Magic and technology are antithesis, cooperation is beyond possibility. As you said magic would cause the rate of development to decrease, because with magic as a fuel people would have a problem even in starting to consider an alternative source. (talk) 21:52, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, enchanters are ones who need lyrium the most. I don't believe there much progress to be had from mages due to their limited numbers, possibility of possession or what not. The tranquil however, are an entirely different matter. Their enchantments have a myriad of cilivian uses (ie. they can make a permanent fridge by enchanting cold runes into a wardrobe, or use electric runes and wiring for the perpetually running technology.) All that is now needed is for some craftsman in the templar-controlled region to discover the electrical motor and the industrial revolution will begin in Thedas much like in Britain, except that it will have a different price - instead of thousands of workers (many underage) slaving away 16 hours a day and routinely dying in industrial accidents, it will instead be paid with the mages, all of whom would be turned Tranquil in the ever-increasing Templar regions. Player would have a choice in DA: I to find said craftsman and either deliver them to Templars safely or kill them for the sake of mages. Unfortunately, Gaider is highly unlikely to have the skill to ever pull it off. 4Ferelden (talk) 03:02, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Killing craftsmen so they couldn't help others is nothing but a bandit's work. (talk) 07:22, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
Did I say that I advocate it? No, but I'm sure that plenty of apostates would have wanted to wipe said craftsman out to prevent temlars from gaining an edge over them. And it's not like the protagonists of either DA games weren't allowed to make some bandit-like choices before - the entire KDR questline comes to mind, with killing witnesses, dumping bodies and whatnot. 4Ferelden (talk) 07:43, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
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