I didn't read the Masked Empire but I did read the wiki's telling of it, so I've got the basics covered with Gaspard and Celene. My big question is: who is better ruling material? Briala included.
The Emperor is very militaristic in tone, although not necessarily a warmonger or overbearing, he's a Regent Loghain waiting to happen (in most of the sense). It's not improbable that the Emperor might knock on Ferelden's door and be like "surprise muther******!!!! You really think we're letting you off for getting independence without permission? Empire of the South. FTW!!!"
Now, as to whether or not that's a bad thing is really a question of perspective. If playing Origins made you feel Ferelden then I can see why you'd want to avoid that (unless you think in-cannon the next game will enable you to join the war and win it for you country). However if peace is your desire, then this possible future may not be for you.
As for the Empress, I know she's a real game player and a bit loose around the hemline, but then again, most peace-time rulers are whether they want to be or not. It's just that her time with Briala made her politically unstable. Now her girlfriend feels jilted and is raising all Hell for elven supremacy. However, like I said, peacetime ruler and gameplayer. If anyone can hold Orlais back from hegemony or destruction, it's Celene.
Not to mention, compared to Gaspard, who disdains the game he plays, Celene is already a tried ruler. Is modern Orlais so bad? Well, hard to tell with all the rifts but I doubt the commoners really care one way or another. However, Gaspard's disdain of politics and code of honor means he might be more popular and also strengthen the power of the Imperial Court and the throne in particular--for better or worse.
As for Briala, all I know is that she's eleven. She hates Celene and doesn't think much of the Grand Duke, meanwhile she's plotting to install elves to rule the humans of Orlais. Sounds kinda KKK to me but I dunno...if your side is elven or you know something I don't, having her spin webs around an Emperor or Empress might be your thing.
^^I'd like to be a little more informed on her before I continue about her, though. I mostly only know her from my first playthough of Wicked Eyes Wicked Grace.--Alois Val (talk) 20:52, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
Please sign. FYI it's Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, wicked grace is a card game. Or was that a joke?
Anyway, there's too many unknowns to says who is the better ruler. The pros and cons of each make them all valid choices. I do think Gaspard ruling alone is slightly worse than all of the others for the reasons you stated. My personal favorite is to have Briala rule with Gaspard as a figurehead. As Leliana points out, Briala owes the Inquisition big time in that situation, so it is essentially the Inquisition ruling Orlais through Briala through Gaspard, which is pretty cool. Also, I like to take out Florianne in the boss fight, which means Celene has to die. Silver Warden (talk) 19:23, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
Well, playing Wicked Grace with the Empress of Orlais, the next in line to the Throne, and an elven spymaster who is probably the next most powerful elf in Thedas, after a living elven Warden or a Dalish Inquisitor, would be pretty interesting. But, in all seriousness, in my opinion, Celene reunited with Briala is probably the best choice for ruling Orlais. While I'm with Gaspard on hating the Game, its not going away. Emperor Kordillus Drakon, the guy who created both the Chantry and the Empire, the guy who almost singlehandedly reshaped Thedas and instituted the world order that rules most of the continent for the next almost 1000 years, failed to get rid of or even significantly weaken the Game. Orlais needs a ruler who both understands and is a master of the Game, and Gaspard is not it. Also, Briala behind Gaspard's throne wouldn't work in the long run, because once either Gaspard or Briala dies, all those changes will be violently undone. You need to change the hearts and minds before you can change the laws. But pairing her with Celene, the steps are more gradual, and by taking things more slowly, they can, hopefully, enact reforms that will last beyond their lifetimes and set an example for the rest of Thedas... Then again, considering how generally shitty a place Thedas is, it probably won't last either way. I mean, if the Dalish homeland in Ferelden given if there's a Dalish Warden didn't work, and Ferelden had just been SAVED by a Dalish elf, what chance do Briala and Celene have? Orlais is far worse in its treatment of elves, so, yeah. Also, Briala isn't trying to install elves as rulers of Orlais, nor does she have anything close to a KKK mindset. She's trying to make things better for her people, who have about as much rights as blacks during Jim Crow, if not less. --TheFereldenMagister (talk) 19:31, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
Like Silver Warden said, it's hard at this point to determine who is the "better" ruler, we wont know for sure till (probably) the next game. Of the 2, Gaspard really seems the type to start conquering "lost" territories, and with everyone constantly mentioning how Ferelden STILL hasn't recovered from the Blight, 10 years later, it seems like that's here he would start his invasions. (to me at least) Personally, because I don't really like Orlais that much, I exile Gaspard, and force Briala and Celene to rule together... this way, Gaspard can then restart his campaign from exile, and keep Orlais at war/busy and away from my dear Ferelden. Really, we just need them stable enough to give aid when fighting Corifernus... and after that it's not my problem... >.>; Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 20:02, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
@Silver Warden: Sorry for not signing, I thought I did :p As for Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts: I genuinely forgot the name, I know Wicked Grace is a card game but it seemed appropriate considering how Grace is won.
@Ferelden Magister (why can't I be one in-game): You make a fair point, but in my opinion, Orlais is screwed either way. None of the three rulers really care about their people in the long run. The only major differences stem between political power and external politics. Now, I may be a Dictator-Inquisitor, but I know the inquisition won't out-live me. So, that's why I favor Emperor Gaspard: he's radical enough to make a difference, for better or worse. I'm willing to throw the dice on him as he's a lot more impressive (to me personally) than Celene. Celene may be blonde and able (though second to my Anora ;-) ), but blonde-ness isn't enough for me to turn down Gaspard, whom I've come to respect. That being said, he may or may not be that big of a man in the end. Although Celene may be squished between the gentry in her rule,she's the safe choice in what you can expect.
Therefore, considering my attraction to dominant personalities and Imperial Authority (I guess I'd be a "tory" if I were English and old :p ) and my belief that neither Briala nor Celene can really do any good for the people so long as they're bound by the system, I vote the Emperor.
As for the plight of the elves, I'd compare them to American-Indians. Like American Indians, they lost their land and remained belligerent long after their land was lost and their kingdoms fallen. A tragic hero bunch I guess, although the details make it gray, the basic history has the makings of tragic martyrdom.
That being said, I f****** hate the elves. They're always rude to my P.C. and call me and other humans "shems" like we're some inferior species. At least the Qunari back their racism with fight. The Elves just plain annoy me.
On a more political aspect though, the Orlesians have no responsibility for the Elves due to Elves being illegal citizens. Therefore the elves are to the Orleasians what Orleasians are to Fereldenors: neighbors they love to hate.
I'm curious what you all think though. It's a pretty open topic considering the fifty shades of grey between them.--Alois Val (talk) 21:07, June 16, 2015 (UTC)--Alois Val (talk) 21:07, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
And humans have never used racial slurs against elves. Never heard of this term 'knife-ear', not at all. Nope, and the elven hatred of humans isn't justified in the slightest. Not at all. What, you think they were enslaved and lost their entire culture or something? Also, when the elves and humans met and the word 'shemlen' was created, yeah, the humans were an inferior species. Elves were immortal, had an ancient and powerful empire, and knew things humans even in the current ages don't know. Now, its just a way of sticking it to the group that crushed your homeland and all but wiped out your culture, forcing you to live as either second class citizens or wandering nomads. Also, what are you talking about with illegal citizens? The elves aren't some outside group or people who jumped across the border, they were forced into Alienages at the end of the Exalted March on the Dales. If anything the Orlesians have MORE responsibility than any other nation because they are directly responsible for the elves current state. Only Orlais provided troops to the Exalted March, it was an Orlesian mandate for the creation of Alienages, and so on. And, no, Fifty Shades of Grey is a horrible example of a BDSM relationship, ask anyone who is actually into the lifestyle, despite being an absolutely hilarious, 'so bad, its good' kind of read. And where did you even get the idea Celene and Briala are involved in one? The only BDSM relationship in any way hinted at in Dragon Age is between Iron Bull and the Inquisitor. --TheFereldenMagister (talk) 01:18, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Slow down.... When I said "fifty shades of gray" I meant as in "neutral" not the book lol. Hence why I kept it lower case.
However your saying the elves were once the master race essentially means they are getting now what they gave millennia ago. There are no victims in history, just switches of positions.
Meanwhile, the elves are illegal if you're talking about tribal ones (Dalish or not), as for the alienages, they're called "alien-ages" for a reason. (Hint is the word "alien" as in "alien culture".) However, like you said, they were once dominant over humans (and probably locked humans in alienages as well) this resulting in a 360 degree change from past to present. I'm not saying it's a good thing, i'm just saying neither has the moral right. In the end, might is right. The victors write the history and the losers try to debunk it to their favor. For all we know it is one of the fifty shades of grey (I will not stop using it as an idiom for "neutral from white to black") that no one ever talks about.
And if you want to know why elves are called knife-ears and looked to with suspicion, recall how elves (according to lore and the Dalish Origin) typically shoot at humans and ask questions later. Combine that with their typical hostility and you have, as far as a normal person is concerned, a bandit clan that just happens to be elven.
If you think a victor is responsible for the loser, then doesn't that mean the elves originally had a debt to repay the humans? I guess they didn't pay it seeing as they fell from high heaven to the depths of hell...and it's not unlikely to happen yet again, with elves supreme and humans enslaved. Then another 360 will occur with humans on top and elves on the bottom. Up until they either make peace without demanding anything for it, or die.
Put simply: There is no moral compass in history: The crusaders of the exalted marches see themselves as righteous while their enemies see themselves as righteous. The elves (in the Dales march) saw themselves as righteous while the Orleasians saw themselves as righteous. After the march the elves saw themselves as victims and the Orleasians as abusers. Meanwhile, the Orlesians saw the elves as beaten enemies with themselves as heroes.
See my point? Racism (at least in this case) is seldom without cause. It's sad though because that case is usually misconstrued and made into something bigger and wrongly applied to the whole group.
On a side note: You know the writing of the Dragon Age lore is good when the history behind it is debate-able. ;-) --Alois Val (talk) 02:26, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
Sorry about the misconception. So many people fail to use proper capitalization on the internet, its hard to tell when they mean the book or the phrase. I just assumed the book because of your 'dominant personalities' comment. Although seriously, that book is seriously funny. How that thing got published is beyond me, but its like the literary equivalent of Tommy Wiseau's The Room or an Ed Wood film. With more smut.
I wasn't saying the elves were a master race or something like that, I was simply saying that when the term shemlen was coined, it did fit the race, at least compared to the elves. After all, the word shemlen literally means 'quick children', which is what the humans were to the elves. And, from what we know, the elves didn't keep humans in alienages or ghettos or the like, they, for the large part, ignored them, too caught up in their own struggles, at least according to Abelas. And I disagree strongly with the 'no moral compass'. There is a right and a wrong, if the specifics are a bit looser. Cruelty, depriving someone of their own life, or abusing your power and station is wrong, helping the less fortunate, using your power for the good of all, and fighting against wrongs is right. I believe in might FOR right, not might makes right.
And perhaps I just sympathize with the Dalish and elves more because I usually play as an elf, and my first exposure to Dragon Age was playing a Dalish elf Warden, so that likely colored my view. If I had played, say, the dwarf commoner or something else, I'd feel somewhat differently. Although, I do also largely sympathize with the mages, so maybe I just like the underdog. Or maybe I just hold self-determination and freedom above almost all else, hence my general disdain for the Qun. Or perhaps its a combination of all three.
Side note to respond to your side note: Indeed. The fact that there are two sides that both have good points and bad points (except for Tevinter for the most part. We've met exactly 3 good Tevinter magisters/nobles, and far more bad ones, and the bad ones are REALLY bad. Danarius implied and confirmed sexual assault and rape of Fenris, Corypheus and his friends bringing the Blight, mass slavery of elves AND humans). Even my oh-so-disliked Qunari have SOME good points. Really, there are exactly two things that are always evil in Dragon Age, the Darkspawn and Orlesian cheeses. --TheFereldenMagister (talk) 03:45, June 17, 2015 (UTC)