Forum:The 8th Old GOD?

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I have been thinking (dangerous I know) what if there were eight Old GOD's instead of seven. And, this Old GOD was the GOD of the others. That would be cool and this GOD of the Old GODs was a Hydra and had seven heads, each head representing the other seven. Also it was this GOD of the Old GODs that provided the way into the Golden City and taught Blood Magic to the Teventer Magisters. Then after the last blight and Lusacan, the Dragon of Night is defeated and everyone thinking they have seen the last of the Old GODs, this GOD of the Old GODs comes to life or descends upon Thedas and starts to wipe the lands clean of everyone but the Elves. Thus restoring the Elven home lands. Now if this came to be what do you think they would call this GOD of the Old GODs? Anya (talk)10:12, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Bullshit snake-thing the magnificentRathian Warrior (talk) 12:11, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

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To elaborate on the above : - They don't get the Old Gods out of thin air. If such a thing existed, it would be known.

- Dumat is said to be the one who taught Blood Magic and lead to the creation of the darkspawn, unless I am mistaken.

- The good thing about the Darkspawn is that they're not discriminating nor racist and slaughter/corrupt everyone equally. Why would the chief of the Old Gods favor elves is beyond me.

- I'd send Sandal to kill the thing before it could do any damage. The only risk in this strategy is that he could, in fact, yell "Enchantment" and start applying runes to it.

- Why you see the need to write "God" in the "Old God" entirely in uppercase is beyond me.

- This is basically just a lame way to increase the number of bosses and relative power of the ultimate boss in a bad attempt to create more sequels to the game. Good only for MMORPGs.

- Please think about PC gamers. Seven heads using the Breath ability all at once would cause an impossible lag if not crash the game entirely.

( 89.76.181.157 (talk) 18:06, October 1, 2010 (UTC) )

I gotta agree, would be those lame and dull twist without any sense. I remeber such a thing in a JRPG, and that was the most hated Last Boss ever for me, 'cuz nothing at all in the entire f*cking game indicated there would be that bastard in the end, and yet he came out of nowere with a stupid explanation and a stupid reason. Stupidest boss ever. Basically that's what you sugested. For real, hydras? They are fun in High Fantasy, but seem like way too "whuhuuuuuu!" for Dark Fantasy, especially in a game that was praised for it's realism, every monster is somewhat human, even the Darkspawn represent that dark side of us we keep repressing, the unrelenting rage and will to destroy, so an ultimate god sound just soooooooo unrelated to the general idea. And what the Hell? Why would the guy who thought how to screw the elves in the end help then? This whole idea dosn't makes much sense at all. Sorry to tell you this, depite my respect for your ideas, this one sounds just too "child book" for me (lack of a better expression). The Bard From Hell (talk) 18:34, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

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Now hold on a minute, there may be a point behind this 8th God.

For one it is said the Maker is what imprisoned the Old Gods when the Tevinter Imperium tried to usurp heaven and turned the Golden City black with their sin.

Now let's face facts this means to some degree the Maker is not an all powerful being and is far more accessible than the Chantry thinks. Why else would he leave? Because they pissed him off? I don't buy it.

The more likely thought is that the Maker went "oh s***!" and ran away because they had found a way to reach him. It was probably more along the lines of he got the first hit and then quit while he was ahead.

I mean seriously if people pissed of something resembling an All Being why would he send a bunch of darkspawn to do his dirty work? He would be more likely to just unmake the world and start from scratch. So with that said I find it far more likely that the Chantry's Maker is along the same lines as an Old God only slightly more powerful.

Its simple logic, and with Flemeth apparently putting her two sense in EVERYTHING, I wouldn't find it very surprising if we one day found ourselves face to face with the Maker and kick the holy s*** outta him. I mean come on probably half of us shot him the finger while we defiled the remains of his bride. I think he went from irritated to outright pissed by now. --Xiorath (talk) 18:30, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

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The above poster has issues in understanding the Chantry and the Maker

• For one it is said the Maker is what imprisoned the Old Gods when the Tevinter Imperium tried to usurp heaven and turned the Golden City black with their sin.

Wrong. The Maker imprisoned the Old Gods long before they told the Tevinter Archons to get into the Golden City. Read the codex, it tells you as much.

• Now let's face facts this means to some degree the Maker is not an all powerful being and is far more accessible than the Chantry thinks. Why else would he leave? Because they pissed him off? I don't buy it.

First, if you think the world's most powerful mages casting intricate spells over years makes the Golden City "accessible" I wonder how easy it is to get into your house. Second, the Maker had long since abandoned humanity, and the Golden City was empty. Hence the Old Gods telling the Archons to "steal the empty throne"

• The more likely thought is that the Maker went "oh s***!" and ran away because they had found a way to reach him. It was probably more along the lines of he got the first hit and then quit while he was ahead.

See above response. And he's a fucking god. He's always ahead.

• I mean seriously if people pissed of something resembling an All Being why would he send a bunch of darkspawn to do his dirty work?

Read the codex. People were very sure the world was coming to an end during the first Blight.

• He would be more likely to just unmake the world and start from scratch. So with that said I find it far more likely that the Chantry's Maker is along the same lines as an Old God only slightly more powerful.

"Slightly" being enough to cast all seven underground? And he had already abandoned the humans, maybe he did have another world made from scratch that was perfect. And besides, he only cast the Archons back to earth. They were already tainted themselves, all he did was move them. They corrupted Dumat and started the Blight, not the Maker.

• Its simple logic,

Apparently not, since your points are flawed as I pointed out.

• and with Flemeth apparently putting her two sense

cents. Two cents.

• in EVERYTHING, I wouldn't find it very surprising if we one day found ourselves face to face with the Maker and kick the holy s*** outta him.

If you're evil, yes. Considering you already corrupted the ashes of Andraste.

• I mean come on probably half of us shot him the finger while we defiled the remains of his bride. I think he went from irritated to outright pissed by now.

As I just said.Rathian Warrior (talk) 18:49, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

You people just don't seem to read past the title of any thread. I said "WHAT IF" not that there was an 8th Old GOD. Also do you really think BioWare tells it's gamers everything? If you do then I hate to break it to you, but they won't and never will and that is a fact of the Computer Gaming World. I know I have worked in that World and they don't tell you everything about the games they put out. They give you just enough to keep you wanting more and revel things little by little, it is how they keep you coming back for more. That said, for all we know they might wait until DA3 or DA4 to revel this if they have planned such a thing and they will give a plausible explanation of there being a GOD of the Old GODs. All I have done is posed a query on the subject and all you are required to do is give your opinion on how they would do this, not recant verbatim what you have read and make it the final word, because whatever BioWare has said about DA and DA2 had been vague 85% of the time. But, I guess you people just don't know how to have fun with the Game and like being sticks in the mud. Anya (talk)19:45, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, for one everyone has their own concepts of having fun with a game. But speaking in a more civilized manner now, if you want to introduce a Big Bad Guy as the secret villain of the whole story, you gotta give clues through the entire series. I'm saying this because I write books (all in portuguese, unfortunatly) and I'm a DM, so I know a thing or two about crafting a good story, with good villains. My own series has a "secret villain" (can't gives spoilers, I intent on one day selling those books!), but I give hint about it's existence from the very beggining, so that when he apears and say "Hi, I Mr. Bad Guy, and yes, nothing even hinted my existense, nobody even had a hunch I might be behing everything, but I am! Haha, ain't life fun?" people won't be like "Who the f*ck's this guy? How the Hell he got into the story?!". Not even the greatest amount of explanations before the fight (this sucks, I wanna kill the last boss before the whole scene gets cold and it dosn't seems as fun as it was) will convince fans that it's okay. It's possible for BW to go nuts and do this, nut then it would be too much like FFIX ("Hi, I'm the Last Boss. My very existence was never mentioned, but I am way more intimidating than that pink fluffy tailed ex-boyfriend you just fought, so yeah, I'm gonna be the Last Boss"), and that would be bad, 'cuz that was like the most stupid final fight ever. Origins had a good villain in that you knew who he was from the very beggining (Archdemon) and another you would think he's on your side, but his insanity puts him as your foe (Loghain). I don't remember not even a hint that there might be an eighth Old God, so I don't think it's very... "Makeble" (?!), so to say. Or at least it won't be as impressive as a boss you could guess who he was, but you would not 'cuz you swear it was another, but in the end all makes sense (thing on Batman Beggins, when Batman finds out who Raz Al Goul is (did I spelled it right?)), you could figure who he was, but you would not. My bet for ending the saga is either fighting Flemeth (she's there, you know she's evil, but she seems more of just wicked and mad. Many people have this theory, but still there are things that make you think that the final boss will be something like the last Old God or something), the Maker (he's absent for a reason, what if it's not a good one?) or Fen'Harel (there are several clues that he's more than he seems, but nothing in Origins (the first entry, never give too much clues in the first entry) to sugest you'll actually meet him sometime and face him). Like I said, in the first entry you are given subtle clues for the most part, maybe something more at the very end, but you can still have your doubts. From second main entry onward (spin-offs may be just "rubbish" in the sense of revealing the Big Bag Guy) you are at first broadened in your view, and then it's narrowed by the third entry, and so it goes, with every new important character you have a new side-track, until in the end the one guy who's been around all along, maybe not directly ("He was a great hero you know, changed the entire world. Too bad he was lost at that desert and died" - Ficticional exemple) but he was there. Then you have a good secret villain. But you didn't explained two thing Anya: why elves, and why GOD with upper cases. Would you kindly explain this (don't resist the mental control of these words...)? The Bard From Hell (talk) 22:49, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

I don’t visit this forum so much anymore but I saw this tread and I had to say. Anya what the fuck? Why do you have this obsession for elves. Yea elves are generally cool, and in the fantasy I am creating elves are really cool, but seriously. Dragon Age elves are not cool, they are Jews.

Now I’m not saying anything negative about Jews, I don’t care one bit either way, but they are the classical people with no homeland, the persecuted, the miserable. You may have an infemity for the underdog, but I find them lame.

All that aside you make another mistake. You keep refering to yourself as “in the game industry”. I honestly don’t know what you do anymore. You said you were in the army and now you are a game develepor too. You are multy talented. That aside why do you consider that to give you any special knowlede, any special insigt into what Bioware will and will not do. We all have insigt into bioware games and all have interesting perspectives so what gives you any special status?

I am not going to repet everything that everyone, and especially The Bard From Hell, have said. I just want you to the difference between the words “god” and “God”. “God” with a capital G is a name, it refers to the All being and the all being is in any diffinition omnisiont and omnipotent.

The all being is a very teoretical consept that cannot be meet face to face.

There are two teories about the maker:

• either he is the all being => his excistence will never be confirmed even when the series ends.
• or he is merely a godlike being, without a capital G, this could make him Fen’Herel or some other being that have already been hinted at. =>He will be the final boss and we might have the posibility of defeating him.

If you are interested in seeing a monster with 7 heads and one big one on the other side I recommend you seeing: “Reawakening Memories (2)” an OVA from the Ranma ½ series. It’s funny and silly so it is okay for it to be unexpected, what you suggest is just lazy and poor story writing.-rphb- (talk) 23:44, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

• You people just don't seem to read past the title of any thread. I said "WHAT IF" not that there was an 8th Old GOD.

And we told you what we thought of your what if scenario.

• Also do you really think BioWare tells it's gamers everything? If you do then I hate to break it to you, but they won't and never will and that is a fact of the Computer Gaming World. I know I have worked in that World and they don't tell you everything about the games they put out. They give you just enough to keep you wanting more and revel things little by little, it is how they keep you coming back for more.

Thanks a lot Captain obvious. We never said they told us the be-all-end-all of information in Origins. But there's nothing to support your what if scenario. I could say "Hey guys! In a future DA game wouldn't it be amazing if there's an even greater evil beneath the darkspawn and they're all trying to kill off the people on the surface to run away from them? (Gears of War reference if you didn't get it =D ) It's just as unsupported.

• That said, for all we know they might wait until DA3 or DA4 to revel this if they have planned such a thing and they will give a plausible explanation of there being a GOD of the Old GODs.

You seem to have this misconception that everything you say will be proven true in future DA games. either that, or we'll have forgotten about them by then. Let me make this clear to you. PROOF OR IT DID NOT HAPPEN I can claim in future DA games that the universe will be found to contain infinite amounts of cheese, and the fumes from its decomposition is what makes us perceive the Fade! Back up your claims with facts, not just "We'll wait to see if I'm right in the next game." And assuming they did infact intend to have this god of old gods, there's a drastic oversight on the part of Bioware's excellent storytellers by failing to provide even a sliver of evidence towards this super monstrosity.

• All I have done is posed a query on the subject and all you are required to do is give your opinion on how they would do this,

I did. Bullshit snake-thing the magnificent.

• not recant verbatim what you have read and make it the final word,

I didn't recount anything. I gave my opinion.

• because whatever BioWare has said about DA and DA2 had been vague 85% of the time.

So explaining that Cailan wanted to marry the Orlesian Empress was vague. So was acknowledging the Fex on Par Vollen. So was DA's entire story about the blight? And yes, DA2 is vague, considering it comes out in March! Also, 45% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Good on ya!

• But, I guess you people just don't know how to have fun with the Game and like being sticks in the mud.

Hell yes! I play video games just so I can gripe about how awful they are all the time. All. The time! -- Rathian Warrior (talk) 03:20, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

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@-rphb- "Now I’m not saying anything negative about Jews"

"Dragon Age elves are not cool, they are Jews." ...I would say that the elves in this game take the ideas of more than "jews" they seem to take influence from american indian tribes, pre-roman Gaul and can resemble Woad Warriors from ancient Briton . Why do yout think there "lame".--Gdubs (talk) 03:36, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with Gdubs, as both the Dalish and the Alienage Elves fall in closer relation with Native Americans than Jews. The reason I say this is because of the Dalish naturalistic religion, love of nature, and for the most part savage nature towards humans. As for the Alienage elves the reason I'd say their closer to the Native Americans is because they SEEMED (not saying they have since I haven't read all the freakin codex!) to have conformed to the belief in the Maker. The Jews held on to their unique beliefs even without a homeland. --Xiorath (talk) 04:21, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

According to the Lore of the Game the Elves were in what is now Thedas before the Teventer peoples came, so why not have the Old GODs be for them? As for my capitalization of the word GOD I do it out of respect for all religions, but I don't expect you to understand that and that is not my problem. Also, it would not be nuts for BioWare to come out with a GOD of the Old GODs in either DA3 or beyond. And, lets face it they did not say how DA2 was going to be before they released DA:O or DAA. Why? Because it was still in the planning stages, just as I am sure DA3 is in the planning stages right now and we wont hear a word about it until DA2 has been out for at least six months if even then. That is how the Gaming Business works, deal with it. As for me thinking that everything I say will be proven true? No I do not think that, what I do think and believe is that right now on this forum there is a BioWare employee reading everything we post about the Game and is taking notes and passing them along to the Dev's at BioWare, as well as the writers of the Game. Do I have proof? No, but it is what I would do twere the Dev of DA, so I could gage what the players wanted and then make a judgement call as to what I would put into the next Game in the series. So, think of what you will I could give a rats ass.

@-rphb- never said I was in the Army, I did say I was in the Navy if you go and look at everything I have posted here and yes I have workd for Activision, Accolade, Red Storm Entertainment, Bungie, Electronic Arts, Take-Two Interactive, Sierra Entertainment and Bethesda Softworks in the Q&A department as a Tester. Now before you go and seek my name out at these places I must tell you that you wont find Anya there, because you see (and now the jokes will really start, because they always do) I am a Post Operative Male-2-Female Transgendred Woman and have since changed my name, what I went by before is of no importance anymore and if this information gets me kicked off of here then so be it. Anya (talk)06:00, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

@Anya. Of course now it all makes sense. You are a censored #@$%. Now I understand why you are acting like such a censored @#£¤g~2.

Back to the case. Yes I guess elves are not Jews. Jews have never been that pathetic. Jews at least have a culture, they have enough pride to hold on to their culture and, despite everything, they have always held an important part of society; where elves are always at the bottom of the barrel and even more worse of then the dwarven castless.

That kind of deus ex machine is the epitome of poor story writing. That the DLCs have been of decreasing quality is due to small budgets not bad writing skills. It is easy to finish the game in a satisfying manner and I still don’t believe that there will ever be a DA4. Dragon age will be a trilogy like Baldur’s Gate. A fourth game would be nice, and I can only hope for it, but I don’t consider it likely.

Most teoratical acts have tree acts. DA:O is act one, that is where everything is introduced. DA2, is act II which is normally the longest and most exciting act where the plot really thickens. DA3 will then be where everything climaxes.

As DA1 is the “origin” it must be the origin of someone, something, and I can only see one character that we have meet that but have the potential to be something truly awesome, and that cannot in any player action die. That character is Morrigen; and DA:O is her origin. We will see her in DA2, maybe as a companion, maybe not (most likely not) but we WILL see her, for Dragon age is her story, I am sure of it.-rphb- (talk) 11:39, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Meh, I highly doubt that DA is Morrigans story. Yes i am well aware of her fanbase but to some she was just a supporting character. DA is our story and Morrigans.

Ok you people are very negative and thats sad.... I see this a a question as to what could happen not what will happen. I heard a very long time ago if you don't have something nice to say to keep your mouth shut. Its something to think about anyway... As far as there being an 8th GOD as Anya put it we will not know until the end now will we?

@the Bard from Hell... Do you make it known in the first book or even the first chapter or session of your games that there is a secret villain? If so I would not be interested in reading your books or playing in your games. I have played games for a long time and to be honest yea some of them have STATED OR HINTED that there was an unseen force to be reckoned with later but never in the first second or even the third session. It makes it possible to have it run longer.

As far as Anya having no imagination???? I have to tell you I have played D&D with her as the DM and she never ever tells us what is going on even a little hint until about the fourth or fifth session then she may give a little hint about someone pulling the strings in the back ground. I know this much IF and only IF she is right then you will all be say OMG how did she know? Truth be told she don't it is just a question of a theory nothing more.

As far as her picking the elves as the ones to remain... even in D&D her character is a half-drow elf. This would only be fitting for they have tried to stick to their old ways yes kind of like the native americans but even they did and still do cling to their old ways. It is just a question she raised and all you do is speak negatively about it. Yes some may think it is bs but you know it could happen not that it will but could.

Well I will add this much to this before I get off the subject If and only If there is an 8th GOD then we will definitely have a good fight on our hands. Because if you think about it even a hydra cannot use all of its breath weapons at the same time. But anything is possible. Anyway...Sam_Death (talk)12:54, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

It has become uncomfortable for me to discuss anything about, and with, Anya after his latest exposure. I happen to be an old time Conservative and certain acts are just plainly a sin.

The only way the “eight god” can be introduced is with a deus ex machina and they would never do that, not because they can’t do that, but because they are too good to want to do that. To claiming that they would is to say that the writers are idiots and amateurs, that’s why they won’t do it.

Sherlock Holmes arch nemesis: Professor Moriarty was a sacred villain. He wasn’t introduced deus ex machina as some might say; his existence was hinted from the very start as all the crimes and all the cases seemed to be too convenient and too connected to be a coincidence. An intelligence needed to be behind it.

The same can be said about the darkspawn. There is a secret intelligence somewhere, this being will be the final boss. It might be Flemmet, it might be Fen’Herel, it might be something completely different (like the drows I suggested once). But it won’t be a head more powerful then all the other heads combined. If the mastermind was stronger then all of his henchmen he wouldn’t need them at all.

This is what reveals the existence of the secret villain, he wants something and that something is revealed when we see order and organisation where only chaos is expected.-rphb- (talk) 13:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'd guess and say it has something to do with a God like being of some kind given that most of DA:O had hints of religious tension (unless you went around going "Praise the Maker!" to everyone who would hear it, in which case you only pissed off dwarves, some elves, and Sten.) My opinion is that we're going to get a close encounter from the Maker or elven Gods, or face another of the Gods, maybe an older God having been long forgotten. --Xiorath (talk) 14:23, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

@-rphb- What is a sin? What are you talking about? Please clarify for us will you.

@Xiorath that is my point exactly and we might encounter this Deity in DA3, DA4 or beyond. At least I hope so and it may or may not be a seven headed Hydra or may be something completely different. All I did was pose my theory as a query and if it is proven wrong then it is proven wrong and by BioWare not by players of the game. Of course I do not see those who have bashed me come up with their own theory threads about the Old GODs.

@The Bard From Hell I too am a writer and have several stories being looked at by publisher as we speak. I have also been playing Dungeons & Dragons since 1982 and have been DMing since 1985, so my imagination works overtime. Not just with coming up with D&D ideas, but stories as well as poetry.

Now I am not claiming I know the minds of BioWare, but I do not swallow everything they say about DA, especially when they give ambiguous answers about the game. So, I will keep speculating about the game as I damn well please and if no one likes it then oh well, get over it. Because I have a right to do so. Anya (talk)14:53, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

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I swear I have to come in and make sense of all this shit every day.

• According to the Lore of the Game the Elves were in what is now Thedas before the Teventer peoples came, so why not have the Old GODs be for them?

Because none of their gods were dragons ever. And there were more than seven. And the names of the old gods are never mentioned by an elven character or codex page in the game. At All.

• As for my capitalization of the word GOD I do it out of respect for all religions, but I don't expect you to understand that and that is not my problem.

I find it offensive that you capitalize god. As a druid, the respectful way to refer to my faith would be to say TREEBEARD.

• Also, it would not be nuts for BioWare to come out with a GOD of the Old GODs in either DA3 or beyond.

We've spent the last eight posts explaining to you why it would be. Let me get a quote form rphb: The only way the “eight god” can be introduced is with a deus ex machina and they would never do that, not because they can’t do that, but because they are too good to want to do that. To claiming that they would is to say that the writers are idiots and amateurs, that’s why they won’t do it.

That pretty much spells it out.

• And, lets face it they did not say how DA2 was going to be before they released DA:O or DAA.

They haven't said how it's going to be now!!! You said as much when you said "85% of what they've said about DA:2 has been vague." Be consistent woman!

• Why? Because it was still in the planning stages, just as I am sure DA3 is in the planning stages right now and we wont hear a word about it until DA2 has been out for at least six months if even then.

Cool number. Now, if we don't hear a word about it does that make your correct? Nope.

• That is how the Gaming Business works, deal with it. As for me thinking that everything I say will be proven true? No I do not think that,

Contrary to everything you're implying by saying "WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL BE IN THE NEXT GAMES SHUT UP!"

• what I do think and believe is that right now on this forum there is a BioWare employee reading everything we post about the Game and is taking notes and passing them along to the Dev's at BioWare, as well as the writers of the Game.

Bioware forums? Yes. Here? I doubt it sincerely.

• Do I have proof? No,

Damn straight

• but it is what I would do twere the Dev of DA, so I could gage what the players wanted and then make a judgement call as to what I would put into the next Game in the series. So, think of what you will I could give a rats ass.

If you didn't give a rats ass this thread wouldn't exist woman. And if you were the Dev of DA we'd have bullshit bosses at the end of every game. So I'm quite happy you're not.

• never said I was in the Army, I did say I was in the Navy

She said she was in the armed forces. I'm pissed that don't ask don't tell didn't kick her ass out.

• if you go and look at everything I have posted here and yes I have workd for Activision, Accolade, Red Storm Entertainment, Bungie, Electronic Arts, Take-Two Interactive, Sierra Entertainment and Bethesda Softworks in the Q&A department as a Tester.

• clears throat* BULL! SHIT!!! God damn, do you know how hard it is to be a tester for any one of those companies?! The fact that you're actually telling us that you worked for all of them screams to me how full of it you are. Really now. You really worked for all of those companies? How long at each one? A year? AND in the armed forces? Either you're really goddamned old (which I doubt because most of those companies didn't exist seven years ago) or you're trying to stroke your eDick.

• Now before you go and seek my name out at these places I must tell you that you wont find Anya there, because you see (and now the jokes will really start, because they always do) I am a Post Operative Male-2-Female Transgendred Woman and have since changed my name, what I went by before is of no importance anymore and if this information gets me kicked off of here then so be it.

no comment

• Ok you people are very negative and thats sad.... I see this a a question as to what could happen not what will happen. I heard a very long time ago if you don't have something nice to say to keep your mouth shut.

We have told her, calmly, why it probably won't happen.

• Its something to think about anyway... As far as there being an 8th GOD as Anya put it we will not know until the end now will we?

We really will. Every major videogame that had any sort of writing to it hinted at a super villain. Gears of War hinted at the lambent wretches in the first game. Infamous hinted at Kessler in the OPENING SECONDS!!! Resistance hinted at the angels through codex's gathered throughout the game. MWF2 hinted that shepard would pop you in the fucking head. In Uncharted, Finn betrayed you from the very beginning (you were planning to do the same). I could go fucking on and on. There's no basis for her imagination. Yes, it would be neat. But the public reactions would be almost exactly like the ones here. "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?!"

• @the Bard from Hell... Do you make it known in the first book or even the first chapter or session of your games that there is a secret villain?

See my above statement

• If so I would not be interested in reading your books or playing in your games.

you read twilight don't you?

I have played games for a long time and to be honest yea some of them have STATED OR HINTED that there was an unseen force to be reckoned with later but never in the first second or even the third session. It makes it possible to have it run longer.

So you've never played any of those games I just mentioned? You need to get the fuck out more son.

• As far as Anya having no imagination???? I have to tell you I have played D&D with her as the DM and she never ever tells us what is going on even a little hint until about the fourth or fifth session then she may give a little hint about someone pulling the strings in the back ground. I know this much IF and only IF she is right then you will all be say OMG how did she know? Truth be told she don't it is just a question of a theory nothing more.

Sure, she could be right. My cheese theory could also be right. See how that shit works?

• As far as her picking the elves as the ones to remain... even in D&D her character is a half-drow elf. This would only be fitting for they have tried to stick to their old ways yes kind of like the native americans but even they did and still do cling to their old ways.

Woad warriors are amazing.

• It is just a question she raised and all you do is speak negatively about it. Yes some may think it is bs but you know it could happen not that it will but could.

We're responding to her what if scenario with our reasoning skills. People would NOT like what she has suggested.

• Well I will add this much to this before I get off the subject If and only If there is an 8th GOD then we will definitely have a good fight on our hands. Because if you think about it even a hydra cannot use all of its breath weapons at the same time. But anything is possible. Anyway...

Doesn't make it likely.

• that is my point exactly and we might encounter this Deity in DA3, DA4 or beyond.

And we may also discover that the entire DA universe is the size of a thimble and they have to kill a giant octopus to save their tiny universe from total annihilation!!!

• At least I hope so and it may or may not be a seven headed Hydra or may be something completely different.

Maybe you really did work at all those places, and they transferred you because of how bullshit awful your story-skills are and tried to sabotage the competition

• All I did was pose my theory as a query and if it is proven wrong then it is proven wrong and by BioWare not by players of the game.

So players of the game have NO authority when it comes to the games they play? None? I'm glad I don't live in your universe woman. And yes you posed a query. When you submit something, be ready for criticism. In your own words, "hate to break it to you, but that's how the Game Industry works." Now go make me a sandwich.

• Of course I do not see those who have bashed me come up with their own theory threads about the Old GODs.

I subscribe to the theory that they're old, powerful dragons caged under miles of dirt. Seems to be pretty sane, right?

• I too am a writer and have several stories being looked at by publisher as we speak.

I'm a writer too! I have several highly-subscribed stories on fanfiction.net! See how fucking easy it is?

• I have also been playing Dungeons & Dragons since 1982 and have been DMing since 1985, so my imagination works overtime. Not just with coming up with D&D ideas, but stories as well as poetry.

I write poetry. I play lots of video games and read books and write and have a big imagination. So probably does everyone else on this site. So how does that make you special again?

• Now I am not claiming I know the minds of BioWare,

contrary to everything you've said that I've been responding to for the last twenty minutes of furious copy-pasting and typing.

but I do not swallow everything they say about DA, especially when they give ambiguous answers about the game.

Quote from earlier in her own post: All I did was pose my theory as a query and if it is proven wrong then it is proven wrong and by BioWare not by players of the game.

So if it's proven wrong you won't swallow it? Good to know!

• So, I will keep speculating about the game as I damn well please and if no one likes it then oh well, get over it. Because I have a right to do so.

Did we say otherwise? No! We said "This idea is a bad one!" Because it fucking is! Feel free to imagine any number of scenarios. Just don't clutter up the boards with all your ideas, because I'd hate to have to do another one of these! Rathian Warrior (talk) 16:03, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Anya, okay, you write, great... You have any idea of how hard it is to publish any fantasy realted work in my fucking country? No, 'cuz people here don't give a fuck for dragons and elves and all that, only for pornography. Yeah, fucking lame shithole I live in, pity me. Sam Death: I give clues at the Epilogue of the first book, second one explands the plot without mention of the Big Bad Ass until the end, 'cuz the different protagonist has nothing at all to do with the Big Bad Ass, it's personal between the main character of the saga and the main (secret) villain. Don't want to read it? Fine, don't care, I have my fanbase, you can get yours etc. Not everyone who likes fantasy likes Eragon (someone who likes fantasy but dosn't likes Lord of the Rings must ave something wrong in the head...) for example. Everyone talking about elves: so they have characteristics from jews and native americans, good, don't need to go out of your way about it. Remeber this tread is about this suposed 8th Old God. Anya again: Well, I won't say you're even strange, my country has lot's of transexuals etc., I'm okay with it, not that you "give a rats ass". Really, if you don't, keep it in a note in your PC, but if you want to expose your oppinion you must be ready to hear people complaining or even bashing you, personal experience (everyone gathers pitchforks and torches when I open my mouth to spew profanities and convert them to Devil worshiping... kidding 'bout last part). But you can't go histerical when people don't give a fuck for it, unless you're facing them and you're looking for a good fight (damn it Ogre, where are ya when I get into one of those big ass discussions with my class?!). Rathian Warrior: try to get easier on it, you're bordering, if not crossing over, personal offense here, and it can have some bad consequences for you, I don't believe anyone wants it. Anya once more: nobody came up with theories on the Old Gods? Really? Last time I checked there where some of your forums full of them, but noone could claim to be close to truth as you're basically claiming to be here. Just 'cuz you worked as a tester dosn't means you know everything woman! I made a homework about Ars Goethia and the Demon Lords contained within, does that mean I know everything about it? No. My best friend works animating games, do you see me using this to shove everyone's face? Only once, and I did not said like "My best friend works with games, she tells me everything, suck on it, I know about game-making none of you don't", and that's basically what you are doing. Oh and by the way, want to see my DM skills? Learn portuguese and ask in my talk page for my RPG forum, and see it for yourself. Again Sam Death: don't need to be so offensive when it comes to your protected beloving... Are you mother and daughter or something? Just cause someone said they write (shit, I'm sure I spelled it wrong...) dosn't means you gotta say "Well, you do, good for you, but you suck 'cuz you disagree with my protected", like I already said, want to expose your ideas, gotta be ready to hear complaints, cause not everyone is gonna agree.

And finally... Want a theory about the Old Gods? Powerful spirits (maybe even the Elven Gods themselves) traped beneath the earth, mind-controling or possessing dragons. It's a theory, I might start a forum on it later. But really people, chill out a bit, and sorry for the text wall. The Bard From Hell (talk) 16:52, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

To Bard From Hell I'd just like to say I agree and say people need to chill out, but before I follow that advice I'd just like to get something off my chest.... To Rathian Warrior: I'd just like to point out that I am Wiccan which is more or less the closest you will get to Druid in this day and age. The actual religion of Druidism was lost with time and went back as far as Stonehenge. What people call Druidism is now basically a more organized form of Wicca with more Celtic undertone. Now I highly doubt they worshiped a Lord of the Rings character. So all your talk to me about knowing what your talking about goes back to you and rather than going on a long rant about it I'll paraphrase what you told me and say know what you're talking about or shut the hell up. --Xiorath (talk) 17:05, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Ooh, this is becoming exiting. It's like Jerry Springer show, only without chairs flying around. :D--Markurion (talk) 17:12, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Give me the chair I'll throw it, unless its a cushy one, then I'm taking a nap :P --Xiorath (talk) 17:19, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

@The Bard From Hell You're right, sorry. Personal offense is not a good thing, even if this is the internet. I can agree that we all love dragon age, which is why we have these strong emotions for the game we all enjoy so much. @Xiorath If you couldn't tell, I was joking about being a druid. I didn't feel like lumping her rant about why she did GOD instead of God (I really don't care, being an Apathist as I am) but I figured that people who saw me say TREEBEARD would know I was not being serious about being a Druid. I have no qualms messing with other religions either. I can shout allah or proclaim jesus is dead and feel nothing =DRathian Warrior (talk) 17:37, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Now that that's straightened out, Anya and to others whom care the technical politically correct (ick i hate that phrase)term for referencing all Gods, Deities, Spirits, or otherwise is Divinity, as it just specifies a higher power or form that is worshiped or followed. Just thought I'd point that out for those who wish no more holy wars. --Xiorath (talk) 17:51, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I have in fact swallowed a lot of BS from you people, it seems that every argument I have posted on the various threads here has been wrong according to the people here. Even the ones I have provided links with to back up what I post, but oh well life goes on. So, from now on I wont post a thing here until I finish writing my story for -rphb- writing competition, which I am sure will get the same negativity as everything else I have posted. I have never in all my post belittled anyone the way I have been belittle in this thread, especially with the cursing that has been directed towards me. I wish no one who has done so any ill will nor do I hate them, because I cannot hate another, I have tried and failed at it. Anya (talk)17:55, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Anya, can't you admit at least once, once that you are wrong? Even -rphb- has admited once, even Rathian Warrior has apologized for his offences, but instead of saying "Okay, so, my idea ain't the best" you instead say "Oh, everyone is against me, I'm suffering here, and it's all your fault!", trying to blame us. It's not our fault to disagree with you, at all. I for one was never one to shut up when I disagreed with something, even if it meant almost get kicked out of Technical School (a.k.a sinners heaven...) or loosing quite a few girls from my Bloody List (the affective name I put on the list of girls I would like dating), but why can't you admit to be wrong at least this once? Just by the reception your idea had here, we can really doubt it will be in any game, sinse you're the only fan here who liked this idea, and that is like 3-4 against 1-2 (can't really say Sam counts, I mean, she's your mother right? Parents aways stand for their offsprings against strangers, unless they have something wrong in the head), and if BW is gonna put on what their fans want, your idea will never be in a BW game. Your idea is not good, want a good secret villain play Legend of Dragoon for the PS1, you could tell all along who was going to be the bad guy, but just would 'cuz you were led to think was someone, but when the supposed villain allied with you and gave you clues about another villain, you searched for this other guy, only to find out in the end that he wasn't the villain too, but then was too late and you had to fight a super-powered divine being of total destruction (that killed my party in like, 3 turns). That was a good secret villain, his existence was hinted all along, everyone talked about him, but he was dead, killed by the main character's father. In the end he was just possessing the protagonist's father to take over the body of the monster who was going to destroy the world. When I found that out, I was like "Oh crap, who didn't I imagine that, it was so damn obvious, but still unthinkable!". But your idea is just bad, but still you insist and try to blame us for it. Well, ain't our fault, sorry to say this. The Bard From Hell (talk) 18:29, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

---

• pops his neck*

• I have in fact swallowed a lot of BS from you people, it seems that every argument I have posted on the various threads here has been wrong according to the people here. Even the ones I have provided links with to back up what I post, but oh well life goes on.

I've never seen you post links in the threads I've argued with you. And yes, people will disagree with you. People disagreed with me about Loghain. A lot of people. Did I care? No! I supported my arguments and admitted defeat when Gaider said Loghain had never intended to lead the charge that saved Cailan.

• So, from now on I wont post a thing here until I finish writing my story for -rphb- writing competition, which I am sure will get the same negativity as everything else I have posted.

The best writers will learn from their critic's responses and grow, not complain about how the whole world is against them.

• I have never in all my post belittled anyone the way I have been belittle in this thread, especially with the cursing that has been directed towards me.

I apologize for insulting your military career with the don't ask don't tell comment. But in all seriousness, that story about you getting sex change does not belong here. It addded nothing to your case and only served to piss rphb off. Why you told us, I don't know, but you should never ever bare your soul to the internet. That leads to suicide. None of this should be taken personal, that is a lesson you need to learn.

• I wish no one who has done so any ill will nor do I hate them, because I cannot hate another, I have tried and failed at it.

This is a very mature road for you to take. I don't bear you any ill will either. -- Rathian Warrior (talk) 19:04, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

(looks at old posts, then new ones) Holy crap Deja vu! O.o

Anyways... For start I'd like to say that I too am a writer (seems to be a pattern here) and I have spoken to both a publisher and an editor about some of my work. Let me say that the comments on here are nothing compared to what they will tell you (they're some mean muth.... people)

The point is that some people say things strongly and it is mistaken for direct attack. Some might very well be direct attack, but I for one don't see very much of it in here. (I'll admit my shot at Rathian Warrior for the Druid thing was to some degree and for that I apologize) I prefer to look at all the things people say and use it to improve. Let's take my theory about the Maker being an Old God and final boss. It was shot down, but upon reading some (not all) of the codex referred to here I have begun to see that theory as wrong the way I explained it though still plausible if looked at another way. (and probably unlikely) Now i can start formulatting a new theory based on what I have learn (Though not now, cuz I'm getting a Poptart :D) --Xiorath (talk) 19:26, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

By the power vested in me (I.E something I just made up about three seconds ago) I demand this blatant stupidity stops here! Look at you all! Someone offers their idea which, granted, is pretty awful, and she then responds to your negative comments about it in an incredibly weak manner. Now you bicker like foul-mouthed and uneducated children. Anya! You were wrong and you refused to admit to it. And by the way, never, EVER reveal personal things about yourself on the internet. It is the single best way to get yourself into depression and it will lead to suicide. Everyone else! WE are meant to be civilized! I wonder, now, how long it will be before we're back to attacking each other with clubs and rocks. Show some maturity. EVERYONE included. Ingenuity (talk) 20:45, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, people, chill out. Let's try to keep this discussion civil and clean. Bashing and cursing each other will make everyone walk in circles and it's not healthy. Now how 'bout some video games and energy drinks? -- Rocketai (talk · contr) 19:50, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Now how about Sirus get online for us to resume our campaing?! And hey, energy drinks! My friends spent like three hours without shutting up after spending all the night drinking Flying Horse or some shit like that (not Red Bull, some cheaper version of it). Try to play DnD like that... -- The Bard From Hell (talk) 19:55, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

AND POPTARTS!!!!!! :D --Xiorath (talk) 19:51, October 2, 2010 (UTC)