Ok, so I'm well aware that there is a considerable amount of speculation that Alistair is Fiona and Maric's child, even though Alistair is lead to believe he is the child of a maid. Now, there are two big hole's in this theory as far as I can tell. First, we meet Goldanna, who seems certain that her mother had a child by the king and died giving birth to said child. Second, if you recruit Loghain, you can question him as to why Maric didn't raise Alistair as his own; he'll tell you that Maric nearly did, but chose not to to protect Rowan from humiliation as well as to insure Cailan's status as heir. Fiona had her child nearly four years after Rowan died, so if we take Loghain at his word(and I can't think of any reason for him to lie in this situation), Alistair had already been around for a few years before Fiona gave birth.
So for the Alistair= Fiona's kid theory to be true, either there was a break down in communication during the writing of Origins and The Calling, or Loghain is lying and Goldanna is either knowingly part of a conspericy to make Alistair believe he is the child of a chamber maid instead of an elven grey warden, or her mother was killed and she was lied to on the off chance that Alistair would some day come looking for his sister.
Apologies if any/all of this has already been pointed out.ChosenOfAsmodeus (talk) 08:50, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
- http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/David_Gaider
- Just highlighting that I doubt there was a breakdown of communication. Gaider not only wrote the book, but he was responsible for many characters which include Alistair. So it is doubtful that there was any miss-communication on his part. Balitant (talk) 09:02, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
I think you're a little mixed up there Chosen. Loghain probably meant that Maric was protection Rowan's memory. I mean, what would that say about Maric if after the Queen dies and he has another child with an Orlesian, Elven Mage (quite possibly the worst combo to be in Ferelden)? As for Goldanna, yes, her mother most likely died giving birth to a baby boy, and its just as likely that the child died too, and it can easily result in replacing one baby for another, in a stroke making sure that Fiona's identity was kept safe and Maric besmirched his own name to protect his son. As far as Goldanna was concerned there was no real conspiracy, just a couple of men gave her a bit of coin to shut up, after all, its pretty easy to lie to a child. --Madasamadthing (talk) 14:02, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
- Don't forget, though, that Goldanna's statement is "I told them the babe was the king's," which pretty clearly indicates that she believed Maric was the baby's father independently of what anyone told her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.64.158.234 (talk) 21:26, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
As a point, I am aware the book was written by the lead writer for the game; that was kind of my point. And I suppose it is possible that Loghain meant Rowan's memory, but he did speak of her like she was alive at the time, saying she would have been reduced to a concubine in the eyes of the nobility, and that it was a political decision at the end of the day, as Kings can't escape politics. In the case of Fiona's child, it wasn't political, it was the mother's request. Granted, Loghain could be lying or wrong, but still. As far as Goldanna, are we saying that her mother was a redcliffe maid, had an affair with Maric, died in child birth, the baby died, and the timing was good enough to substitute Fiona's baby with dead woman's dead baby? Seems like a hell of a coincidence. ChosenOfAsmodeus (talk) 20:50, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
No one is saying that Goldanna's mother had an affair with Maric, that was probably another rumour started by Maric and Arl Eamon. We're saying that there was a young maid in Redcliffe who was pregnant, gave birth and died during childbirth. Given that Alistair was several months old at that stage it wasn't coincidence, rather convenience. --Madasamadthing (talk) 21:05, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
- As I noted above, Goldanna blurts out to Alistair and the Warden that she "told them the babe was the king's," and that pretty much negates your theory here, unless you want to suggest that Maric and Arl Eamon pulled an unwitting serving maid into a conspiracy of lies in order to pass off Alistair as the son of one of Eamon's workers, which would also open up uncomfortable questions about what they planned to do with either the serving woman or her actual baby. Because Goldanna wouldn't have said what she did unless she had sincerely believed that Maric was carrying on with her mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.64.158.234 (talk) 21:26, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
I personally don't know why this is still a conspiracy. After reading The Calling, I found it strikingly obvious that the baby (looking remarkably like Cailan) would be Alistair. After all, Fiona did say that she wanted the child to know nothing of his mother, so a forged background is crucial. idk, there's my two cents. Take it for what it is. Sniperspade (talk) 01:47, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
So, we're going to tell the woman's young daughter that her mother was sleeping with the king and create a lie when it would be easy enough to just not tell Alistair he was the king's son in the first place, that his parents were dead? That way there are no rumors, no whispers, Eamon, Duncan, Fiona, and Maric are the only people who need to know who the kid's father is, and you don't have to cross your fingers and hope that when he grows up he doesn't have the spine to want the throne? I'm just not seeing it. And I'm still taking Loghain's explaination as evidence that Alistair was born before Rowan died.ChosenOfAsmodeus (talk) 05:30, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
Or look at it this way. Loghain is so vehemently racist towards Orlesians that the thought of a half Orlesian bastard child born between the King and an Elven mage who would also be in line for the throne would have him foaming at the mouth, calling Maric a traitor and possibly ready to kill the infant. Remember that in the game, Alistair is utterly opposed to the idea of being the King, its not for him. And if you've read the books, you'll also know that Maric only loved three women, and was not the kind of man to go sleeping around with scullery maids. In the Calling, Maric has not been with anyone since Rowan died, the only child he has is Cailan. One child, one heir to the throne. By the end of the novel, Fiona has a little, blond baby boy, her one wish is that he grows up with no knowledge of who is mother is. Whats the easiest way to do that? Find a woman who died in childbirth, preferably the child is also stillborn. That way, you don't have to explain anything, and at the same time, protecting a good woman and her son. The only people who Alistair's true past are Duncan, Maric and Fiona, all Arl Eamon knew is that Maric had a young child who needed to be hidden from the world. I suspect if he actually knew who Alistair's mother really was, he'd be just as furious as Loghain, believing Maric had betrayed all they had fought for during the war. The fewer who know the truth and the conspiracy, the better. --Madasamadthing (talk) 14:40, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
Arl Eamon was married to an Orlesian (Arlessa Isolde) and he didn't seem to have anything against elves in DA:O. I think he'd probably have been cool with it all, though he might have taken some issue with introducing magic to the Theirin bloodline (since it can be hereditary). Loghain and Howe were the main one to take issue with elves and Orlesians. The Eamons, Couslands, and Theirins all seemed to be in the "our past differences are behind us" camp.
The best way to hide Alistair would probably have been to let another family claim him as a son and not tell him who his father is. Imagine how much different Alistair's youth would have been if Eamon had just told Isolde that he was secretly Maric's son, Maric entrusted him to them, and they were supposed to raise him as their own. The way that Maric and Eamon handled it left a lot of holes in the story, not the least of which is why Eamon would only feel it necessary to take in one of that maids children and not the other (Goldanna). It should have been fairly clear that Alistair was something more than Eamon claimed, especially to Arlessa Isolde (who we all know was left out of the loop on it), which led to her treating Alistair badly since she thought he was Eamon's bastard son (rather than King Maric's). Good liars they were not.
Here's a link to the last few pages of The Calling, page 442 isn't shown but most of the stuff relevant to this thread is there. The timeline in The Calling is also known to be messed up and Alistair was only born after Rowan had been dead for a couple years. I don't recall exactly what Loghain said about Alistair in DA:O but if this post by Mary Kirby is any indication, Loghain had no clue who Alistair was. ✪Aedan Cousland | Talk | Contr 15:44, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
Two points I'd like to add. First, Maric and Alistar are strikingly similar in appearance and manner although that could be coincidence. Second, isn't it understood that whatever is written in the books in canon and supercedes anything said by a character? Suggesting that a conflict between narration and dialouge the character is assumed to be mistaken?
It's clear to me that Alistar is the son of Fiona unless there is another reason for the resemblance and Duncan's favortism. Anghus (talk) 21:20, December 27, 2010 (UTC)Anghus
- I would be more convinced that Alistair is Fiona's son if we went on about how Alistair doesn't resemble Maric or the maid; having a strong resemblance to your father means you look like your father - it has nothing to do with who your mother is. Also, Duncan promised to watch over Fiona's kid, it doesn't strain credulity to think he would make the same promise about another unplanned baby. TraumaKitty (talk) 01:20, December 28, 2010
- Except if Alistair isn't the unplanned baby, then you have to buy that there's some other kid out there who had a connection to Duncan, yet wasn't mentioned in Origins....which in turn begs the question of why make a big deal about it in the epilogue to the book that's a direct prequel to the game if the kid isn't important to that part of the story?Rosenoire (talk) 07:09, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
The thing to remember is that Alistair had a thorough overhaul between the original concept and the release of the game. He was originally supposed to be a suspicious, not-altogether-friendly veteran in his mid-30's. Elements of this characterization can still be found in the toolset, which gives that as his age range. The most likely explanation for the contradictory dialogue is that some of the references to Alistair's original backstory were missed in final edits. It's easy to see how a couple of lines that you only get if you don't kill Loghain might have been overlooked. Rosenoire (talk) 05:15, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
Hrm. While I'm not changing my position of doubting Alistair is Fiona's kid(definitely Maric's, just not Fiona's), I'll accept the arguement that it seems unlikely they'd put a plot point like that in one of the books and not do anything with it(Then again, Morrigan's Dark Ritual is a considerably bigger plot hook and if nothing else, it's not the default), and that during development a few things could have been left in that weren't meant to be. And the Loghain interview is a bit of a blow, but it is possible that while Loghain knew Maric had a kid with a redcliffe maid and that Eamon raised the kid, he didn't know the kid's name, and wouldn't have known Alistair was that kid until the Landsmeet. Going back to why they'd bring it up that Maric had a kid with Fion if he didn't play a part in the story; well, it could simply be to have a Therin kid to use in future books/comics/what have you, given that its entirely possible that Alistair's fate consists of being insulted, belittled, left in camp for the whole adventure, and then executed.ChosenOfAsmodeus (talk) 11:52, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
And the moral of the story is, don't let objective reality, narrative coherence or the Word of God stop you from rewriting the story to get whatever result excites you and your asspie friends. I read these threads and I honestly have to wonder what they are teaching in schools nowadays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.123.115.248 (talk)
I think it is fairly obvious he is her child but there are many examples of inconsistencies and I would just put it down to that 62.30.126.107 (talk) 00:18, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
I would honestly be very surprised and a little annoyed if Alistair turned out NOT to be Fiona's child. It would completely change the image Gaider gave Maric. While he was not completely upfront with Rowan about the Katriel thing when they were engaged, Maric seemed like a pretty stand up guy. He really did not seem the type to going around plowing through women and leaving bastards in his wake. While I did not get the impression that he was in LOVE with Fiona, after they slept together in the Deep Roads, he seemed to want more from her. Even if she was not very kind to him when they first met. Also when he learned he had a child with Fiona, he did not seem all to happy about having the child believe his parents did not want him. I can't image after that he would dally with some maid at Redcliffe after all that and have another child. Also as someone has pointed out, Duncan was a friend of Maric's, but I doubt he is going to look after two of Maric's children.RhiannonCousland (talk) 00:10, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
I don't believe Al is Fiona's child because I simply don't want to believe. I think it would be interesting, if Al had another long lost brother. Besides it would be annoying that whole mess with Goldanna was just a misunderstanding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.142.3 (talk) 17:20, April 24, 2012
I believe Goldanna's mother really did gave birth to the boy, and that the boy was Maric's bastard. But Throughout the DA Universe you will hear that Maric had very nasty habit of sleeping with different women whenever he had chance. I believe theres more to that story than what we've been shown. Alistair is very important character in Dragon Age Universe. Obviously more important than the Warden. And Royal affairs are never as simple as we think they are.--Markurion (talk) 17:37, April 24, 2012 (UTC)
- Alistair didn't kill the Archdemon, the Warden did. (or even Loghain; depending on your choices) I agree with you though about Maric's womanizing ways. @ Anon, I agree as well. I don't want to believe that Alistair is anything more than a random bastard of the king, and not some child of conspiracy. I think there was a very serious break between the one piece of writing and another, the whole Goldanna business is pretty much useless if another medium comes along and says that it was moot. So, what now, huh? Is a book going to be released that says Leliana was never really a bard? Is Marjolaine simply mistaken about her past then? This is exactly my problem with DA series right now, the inconsistency and retcon drive me absolutely mad. EzzyD (talk) 18:07, April 24, 2012 (UTC)
TBH, I've never read the books and probably never will, but I don't think that Alistair is Fiona's child. Think of it this way: Alistair can become the King of Ferelden. He has the taint, which means he has ~30 years to live. Now, suppose that Fiona's child is NOT Alistair. Fiona was cured of the taint before she gave birth(I think), which (probably)means that her baby was born without it as well. That child has a legitimate claim the the Ferelden throne, and seeing as Alistair is more than likely incapable of producing an heir, he/she is a convenient fallback in case Alistair were to die. Even if Anora was the monarch, there's a good bit of in-game evidence that she's barren, and the nobles would probably approve a descendant of Calenhad over one of Anora's relatives. Then again, all of this is speculative bullshit until Gaider says something. --CommanderCousland (talk) 18:20, April 24, 2012 (UTC)