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This is somewhat an expansion of this forum; almost the same if you approve of magic or not, but with more factors.
1. "Magic exists to serve man, and never rule over him".
The Imperial Chantry is known for its liberal views on magic, which is why Tevinter is governed by the magisters, while the original Chantry seeks to control those who have, as how they see it, the "curse".
Perhaps the only nation that permits this is the Imperium. They would take everyone, except those who have magic (those who possess the talent are slowly integrated to become citizens of Tevinter, in Varania's case). For Orlais, it is in a figurative sense; the Circle of Magi; the Templar Order keeps the mages in line, as well as hunt the "apostates".
The Tevinter Imperium did not conquer any more lands; in fact, they lost Seheron to the Kossith/Qunari, and are attempting to retake it, as told by Fenris. Orlais took Ferelden, but was eventually repelled under the leadership of King Maric Theirin. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, the Divine can conduct Exalted Marches, as a possible cover-up for domination.
4. Rivalry Among Aristocrats.
Feynriel, as he witnessed, tells that magisters would arrange duels should an argument be not settled by peaceful negotiations. The nobles in Orlais, though they duel as well, would rather prefer hiring assassins to get rid of someone.
As explained by the Canticle of Threnodies, the Chantry in Orlais CLAIMS that these creatures were unleashed because of the avarice of the magisters as they stepped foot into the Golden City. Everything they touched became corrupted, and they were expelled by the Maker. They then, became the first darkspawn.
Some may seem biased, but these are my perspectives.
I am more of an Imperium sympathizer. How about you guys?
Orlais. I am pro-Chantry, and while I don’t agree 100% with their (obviously reactionary) policy towards mages, I prefer the Mutant Registration Act solution to the Brotherhood of Mutants solution (that is, the injustice of the Circle to the injustice of Magister rule). Plus, I was tickled with excitement for the inevitable DA3 foray into Orlais after seeing the party in MotA. I’m up for some color and delightfully strange excess and less thrilled with the idea of (what I always assume would be) the dark, dystopian environs of the Imperium. And there’s something Romantic about the fancy intrigues of Orlais, which I find highly appealing. HELO (talk) 16:25, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Haven't bought MotA yet, nor Legacy. I'm waiting for the DA2 Ultimate Edition, which will be released in a long, long, long time.
- NicKeL BreaD Talk 17:22, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Man, when you put both side by suck, they both royally suck. I have to say that Orlais is winning right now though...Look how the magisters act in Tevinter. At least Orlais is more secretive about it. Also, Corypheus is an original magister, so the Chantry may have gotten more right than we thought, thus they are more justified in their actions. Xelestial (talk) 23:41, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
- Oh spoiler. I don't have any of the DLCs yet.
- NicKeL BreaD Talk 12:35, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
I prefer Orlais over Tevinter. They both are no good guys, but I see O as a lesser evil. Chevailers use their possition to rape women, so do magisters. In Tevinter slavery is fully legal and I hate slavery, because once some people tricked me and sold as a slave, I lost over 3 weeks of my life. I always hated slavery, but since then I hate it even more.
Being more subtle about it doesn't make it any better. For the first point (that of oppression), the only actual difference is who they're oppressing; non-nobles for Orlais, and non-mages for Tevinter. For the second (slavery), sure, slavery's illegal in Orlais, but is serfdom really any more than just slightly better? Nobles could rape or even kill a serf, and they'd never face any punishment worse than paying the serf's master most times. You could say the Magisters' practice of sacrificing slaves for blood magic makes them worse, but remember the stories of Orlesian nobility's decadence and depravity. There was a real-life noblewoman who murdered women and literally bathed in ther blood, and I wouldn't put it past Orlesian nobles to hear that story and take notes on it (in fact, I just now remembered that's almost exactly what the Baroness in Awakening did). Oh, and remember the Templar who turned mages into soulless husks so he could use them as sex slaves? That was in Kirkwall, but the point stands. For 3 (treatment towards elves), they both treat elves like crap. At best, a noble or Magister will treat a slave/servant like a favored pet, and at worst as a tool to fuel depraved/diabolic whims. For the 4th (in-fighting), neither seems worse than the other. Sure, Tevinters have magic duels to the death and probably their fair share of political nonsense, but Orlesians are even worse than the dwarven nobility when it comes to backbiting, backroom dealing, and cutthroat feuding. They take assassination, blackmail, corruption and theft and call it a game. And finally, I don't really think the Darkspawn thing matters all that much. Even if the Magisters did cause the creation of Darkspawn, I don't really think it's right to judge a nation based on the actions of people dead for thousands of years; my history lessons show me a pattern for that, and the pattern is "longstanding, bitter conflict". --UrLeingod (talk) 16:04, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
- Corypheus and Architect survived centuries, who knows is more of the still exist? Archont, who wanted to abolish slavery was quickly assassinated. Assassinations are common to nobles of every country - Howe, Arland, Esmerella. I detest Tevinter for slavery and sacrifaceing them for bloody rituals, demons and blights are secondary reasons. Otto Arlik wanted to tranquil all mages to rape them, but the Divine and Meredith rejected this immadiatelly. There is also a theory that Kirkwall is corrupted, because of cursed way to deep roads in Legacy. This is just a city of misfortune - wars, bandits and curses.
- The Architect has nothing to do with the Magisters directly, he's just a weird mutant darkspawn, at least as far as we know. And Corypheus isn't a Magister anymore; he was, thousands of years ago, but he isn't any longer. If Thomas Jefferson suddenly turned out to have been a Highlander all this time (which would be awesome, BTW), would Anglo-Americans suddenly be considered responsible for slavery again, just because he was one of the people who decided not to outlaw slavery in the Constitution? No nation's history is all sunshine and roses, but not many were so irredeemable that the only recourse was to destroy them. My main point is that Orlais is every bit as bad as Tevinter - in fact, not even "Orlais" and "Tevinter", but the elites of their respective societies - the only difference is that they're far more subtle about it (and even then, judging from much of the info we have of them, their hedonism and extravagance in the face of their peasantry's poverty is reaching French Revolution levels of sickening; mayhap mages aren't going to be the only oppressed class revolting soon?).--UrLeingod (talk) 19:55, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
Tevinter is the place to be. I wish DA3 takes place in Tevinter than Orlais, just thinking about it makes my ears bleed if you know what i mean. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 04:05, July 17, 2012 (UTC)Darkside
I really would like to play the game in Tevinter, yeah on paper Orlais wins out, but gameplay as a Magister pro-imperium, a rebel Magister, a rebel slave [rogue/warrior] (Fenris style but who makes waves in the ranks) could be awsome. As a future place to play in the DA universe - Tevinter hands down, gameplay in Orlais would involve just drinking tea and eating biscuits and generally discussing the maker. Assassin for the argonauts (talk) 16:46, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
Right, because as we've all heard from Leliana, Orlais is a totally peaceful, dull place, and all those rumors of bards who are actually spies, saboteurs, and assassins for hire are all complete fabrications with no grounding in reality. And as we all know, the fact that Orlais is basically global HQ for the Chantry means it in no way will end up embroiled in the Mage-Templar War. Okay, sarcasm aside, I definitely want to see Tevinter in the games, but writing Orlais off as boring is ridiculous. There's all kinds of possibilities there, just like there are for Tevinter. --UrLeingod (talk) 17:17, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
Dont have enough solid, unbiased info about Tevinter (what? it's true!), so I have no opinion on them. As for Orlais, well...(turns on subtitles, mutes game). As far as from what we've seen, I personally believe they're essentially the same in how *quote* evil *unquote* they both are. Tevinter is just more up front about it.Avg Man (talk) 18:57, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Ally of Ferelden? Where did you get that idea from? O_o Anyway, if Orlais is an ally, then as the quote goes "“Lord, defend me from my friends; I can account for my enemies”.
- Tevinter all the way for me. At least they keep the Qun-lemmings in check, oh, and the happy voyage to the Golden City was a very interesting and daring experiment from purely scientific point of view. -Algol- (talk) 02:15, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Um, from the game? Cailin was requesting troops from Orlais to fight the blight in Ferelden. Celene I sent personal letters to him talking about putting the differences of their fathers behind them. Cailin also argued with Loghain about how their war with Orlais was a thing of the past. I agree that Tevinter keeps the Qunari in check, but Tevinter is just as bad as they are. Maybe worse in some ways. Invading the Golden City was done out of greed and hunger for power. It was done at the recommendation of false gods. Believe it! (talk) 16:28, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
- ...And those troops never came.
- ...Personal correspondence and arguments with Loghain achieved nothing substantial, and ended abruptly with Cailan's death.
- ...Instead Alistair the Kings talks in DA2 how Orlesians are up to something, and he has to be on his toes.
- All in all great ally":)
- Oh, and about "false" gods... We don't even know if the Maker even exists, maybe it all was an elaborate scam. On the other hand, the Old Gods at least do exist, albeit in Archdemon form.-Algol- (talk) 22:05, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
- If you remember back to the private meeting in Ostagar Cailin argued with Loghain and got him to comply by threatening to wait for Orlais troops to show up. Then Riordan later confirms those troops were turned away at the border by Loghain's soldiers.
- Loghain was against Orlais, so what do you expect? I'm sure communication could be restarted by Alistair, Anora, or the playable character if he becomes king.
- Saying they are up to something doesn't mean they are not allies.
- If the Maker doesn't exist then who made the Fade and Thedas? The way DA presents it, the Maker seems to be a well known fact. The old gods exist in dragon form. An Archdemon is a tainted, old god. Those dragons were named and worshiped as gods by foolish people, same as the sacred ashes dragon was called Andraste by the cultists. Those gods are false because they deceived their followers and made them corrupt the Golden City, which was the Maker's throne. Believe it! (talk) 21:49, August 15, 2012 (UTC)
- Good point about the old gods. In Silent Groove Yavana revelated that ancient dragons hibernate and can be awaken by magic, maybe the archdemons were some of thos dragons. Also the Black city exist, Corypheus confirmed this. He was confused, but he wouldn't imagine such story, because he didn't know what happened in the world for a millenium. He also confirmed that magisters created darkspawn, but that's different case. Black city can be seen in the Fade, even Avernus saw it. User:126.96.36.199
It is more than clear what I will say, Tevintar all the way. I am totaly anti-chantry, the Maker is made up, the Taint, I think can be used for good things, magic is awesome, templars are asses. I know that now Tevintar has it`s own chantry, but yeah, OLD GODS is where it is all at :P. With regards, a warped Tzeentchian sorcerer, that is here: a tainted, old gods magister The fires of Tzeentch change all! (talk) 18:22, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
I'm going with Johhny Depp on this one, "Me I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly it's the honest ones you have to watch out for, you never can predict if they're going to do something incredibly stupid." Taken another way, I prefer the evil that's honest about its nature versus the evil that pretends to be good (Orlais). Granted I still want to actually see Tevinter to judge for myself just how 'evil' it is. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:14, August 11, 2012 (UTC)