Forum:Tevinter and the Qunari

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionTevinter and the Qunari

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I'm having trouble figuring something out ever since Trespasser: how is Tevinter still standing? Prior to that particular DLC, the answer was simple: their magic was powerful enough to counter Qunari discipline and cannons, and the Saarebaas were too untrained to tip the scales. But after the Saarebaas you fight in Trespasser that isn't an option, they are more than a match for any of the Tevinter mages you've met in the games in terms of combat magic, and far stronger than them physically. And while yes, Tevinter is more than capable of beating them in terms of more complex magics, such as the whole timey-wimey stuff and the like, that's not too useful when you've just had a giant horned man (or woman, maybe. Have we ever even heard of a female Saarebaas?) give you a flaming uppercut. The only thing I can think of is that they've got some really spectacular enchanted items, but if that's the case why have all the 'Vints we've encountered been rather mundanely equipped? Or do you think that the level of raw power possessed by Saarebaas could be a more recent development? Either way, this raises some serious questions about the two nations. After all, the Qunari have been in Thedas for almost 300 years, and that should have been plenty of time for them to figure out that powerful combat magic would aid their cause and raise several generations of Saarebaas with that in mind. So, if that's the case what took so long?

So, what do y'all think? Eggy the Duck (talk) 07:31, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

There is such a thing as Gameplay and Story segregation. I'd wager you're just reading too much into it.

Also yes, we have heard of a female saarebas. Hell, you play as one; Hissera.

-HD3 ^(Talk) 07:48, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Ah, don't play the multiplayer that much, thanks for pointing that out. Nice to know. Makes me wonder which branch the Saarebas go into... Or are they outside the Qun? But that's a different question, for a different thread. Eggy the Duck (talk) 11:48, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Sten refers to a mage Warden as a 'beast' and the word Saarebas actually means 'dangerous thing.' I don't think the qunari think Saarebas are part of the qun any more than human armies think horses are soldiers. Saarebas probably don't fall under any branch as a group, but they are likely used in any role that requires combat.

With that kind of attitude about mages, Tevinter will always have the upper hand when it comes to magic. In fact, any group (other than dwarves) with a greater population of mages than the qunari could beat them in a purely mage vs. mage conflict. Remember, without someone holding their leash Saarebas pretty much go wild. Treat someone like an animal and they'll act like one. Even the mages in Feredlen and Orlais have more freedom than them, not to mention better education and possibly better training. They can think and act on their own, devise tactics, work together. Saarebas can't. The qunari have made them into living weapons, and a weapon without a wielder is powerless.

It's no coincidence that the qunari have only managed to conqueror islands. They have absolute naval supremacy thanks to their dreadnaughts but their armies alone wouldn't have gotten them anywhere. My guess is that even Orlais could beat them on land, or at least force them into a stalemate. Why? The qunari may have gaatlok and better spies, and their individual warriors might be physically superior to humans and elves, but their governing structure and philosophy undermines all of those advantages. The Dragon's Breath operation is a perfect example of this. The qunari thought that eliminating the leaders of Orlais and Ferelden would leave them utterly powerless, but we know that's not the case. You can't just cut off the head of the snake and hope it won't grow back. New leaders would pop up. There might be a civil war or two in the interregnum, but eventually things would return to the status quo. And invading them shortly after a mass assassination would only speed up the process. Nothing unities a nation like a foreign invasion.

However, the qunari could be beaten using their own strategy. Look at what happens after the Arishok dies in DA 2. If the qunari leadership were to be suddenly destroyed, their society would collapse. Kill the queen and the hive dies. Silver Warden (talk) 19:48, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

I thought Bull said the exact opposite in one version of the post-WE&WH dialogue, that the whole Triumvirate could be wiped out and nothing would change, but Orlais lost its shit over Celene & Gaspard? It sounds to me like the Arishok, whether he lived or died, was replaced by the next "best-qualified" almost immediately afterward (who happens to be the Warden's Sten), which implies a much more clear-cut line of succession (citing America as my own example, not that it's ever gone past the Vice President in our history). RShepard227 (talk) 04:10, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

I meant all three at once, not just one. And obviously given time they'd find a replacement (Inquisition takes place eight years after the Qunari invasion of Kirkwall). Yes, Orlais had a civil war after the death of an emperor and Ferelden had one after the death of a king, but neither of them were facing a foreign invasion at the time. Look at how quickly everyone teamed up to get Cory. Even the dwarves provided some support (well, if Bhelen is king) and they weren't even directly affected. Silver Warden (talk) 20:02, October 5, 2015 (UTC)

Fereldn was facing a Blight. And why do you say that the qunari had a massive interregnum when the Arishok died? Caspoi (talk) 08:28, October 6, 2015 (UTC)

We don't know exactly how long it took for the qunari to pick a new Arishok. Probably substantially less than eight years, but we shouldn't just assume that a new one was assigned automatically.

The blight is more of an infestation than an invasion. Darkspawn come to destroy, not conqueror. Because of this, people weren't initially aware of the nature of the threat, and Loghain took advantage of that (though I suppose he didn't know the nature of the threat either). But the Warden was able to use the blight's threat to end the civil war peacefully. In fact, he/she was even able to draw other factions into the mix so if anything the blight is a good example of how an external threat can unite people. Silver Warden (talk) 20:15, October 6, 2015 (UTC)

But from what we have heard the qunari could loose the triumvate and would just replace it with new men, why are you saying that they would not? And the Blight could certainly be considered an invasion, and it took a year and one exceptionall character to unite the realm even when faced with such a thing. Caspoi (talk) 11:20, October 7, 2015 (UTC)

Tevinter makes a big thing out of actually breeding mages, so they have loads more than any other nation in Thedas, couple that with the best magic training available and the few Saarebas the Qun have are kinda outmatched. Also remember that Saarath (the saarebas you fight in Trespasser) is a super-saarebas, juiced up with lyrium-roids and rift magic. --Sadandyrkaar (talk) 09:01, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

I hadn't really thought about the numbers side of things, and now I feel kinda silly :P. And yes, I'm aware that Saarath is something totally different, possibly even unique. Actually, hopefully unique. I'd rather take a Harvester. Or Twenty. But the Saarebas you encounter in game, the plain Saarebas, are just as powerful as any Tevinter mages you encounter (except possibly the Magisters you run into) based solely on the variety of their abilities and the like. Anyway, the numbers is probably it. That, and I had forgotten that Dorian having access to that terror of the battlefield that is Virulent Walking Bomb, the spell that still makes it hard for me to think of armies really working in Thedas (at least ones in formation), meaning other Tevinter mages likely do as well. Eggy the Duck (talk) 11:48, October 4, 2015 (UTC)