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I sided with them in my latest playthrough, and I got to say their questline was somewhat more interesting than the mages. Also the Venitori are a lot less of a pain to kill than the Red Templars. I haven't gotten to Calpernia yet, but I heard she's pretty cool... as a rival that is. Also on the issue of Vivienne, I feel that she does care for the mages (her reaction to the treatment of the tranquil for example) but her own survival comes first. Think about it her getting more political power and influence is pretty much the same plan as Hawke's was (exceptional if their a mage). I don't believe becoming Bastien's mistress was part of her official plan, but it did help and it's clearly the real thing. If anyone tries to say other wise they're blind! Vivienne is ambitious, yes but I don't get why the hate for her? She's highly intelligent women who's has put a lot of hard work into getting where she is. Sure she could use her influence in a more direct manner to help mages, but in a sense her just being in that position should inspire some confidence. Plus she has some of the best party banter! --[[Special:Contributions/90.219.216.14|90.219.216.14]] ([[User talk:90.219.216.14|talk]]) 21:03, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 
I sided with them in my latest playthrough, and I got to say their questline was somewhat more interesting than the mages. Also the Venitori are a lot less of a pain to kill than the Red Templars. I haven't gotten to Calpernia yet, but I heard she's pretty cool... as a rival that is. Also on the issue of Vivienne, I feel that she does care for the mages (her reaction to the treatment of the tranquil for example) but her own survival comes first. Think about it her getting more political power and influence is pretty much the same plan as Hawke's was (exceptional if their a mage). I don't believe becoming Bastien's mistress was part of her official plan, but it did help and it's clearly the real thing. If anyone tries to say other wise they're blind! Vivienne is ambitious, yes but I don't get why the hate for her? She's highly intelligent women who's has put a lot of hard work into getting where she is. Sure she could use her influence in a more direct manner to help mages, but in a sense her just being in that position should inspire some confidence. Plus she has some of the best party banter! --[[Special:Contributions/90.219.216.14|90.219.216.14]] ([[User talk:90.219.216.14|talk]]) 21:03, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
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:To be clear I don't hate Viviene as a character, I think she's well written. Which is why I hate the character. As in, if I met someone like that in real life I could not spend more than five minutes in the same room with them.
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:Viviene is a politician motivated purely by a lust for power. End of story. Yes, her feelings for Bastien were genuine but they were the result of her schemes, not vice versa. The fact that she is capable of feeling empathy toward the tranquil doesn't change the fact that she is motivated solely by a desire to become Divine. If she becomes Divine, she basically just restores the old order. Only an idiot would think that was a good idea. And since we know Viviene isn't an idiot, we can only conclude that her actions the result of her selfish desire for power. She knows a mage can only be Divine if she stays true to the old ways.
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:Viviene portrays the circle like a paradise, assumes the absolute worst of both her fellow mages and the public, and fails completely to recognize the extent of the Templars' abuse of the mages. Again, we know she is not stupid so we must conclude that she is lying in order to justify her conservative stance. If a Templar or Revered Mother said the things she does about mages, we could assume that they were ignorant of the mages' plight and possibly brainwashed to fear mages. Viviene has experienced life as a mage, both within a circle and without. She'd have to be completely deluded to truly hold the beliefs she professes given her intelligence and experience. And we know that she isn't. She is a lying, scheming, selfish, soulless politician whose backwards policies will only cause more trouble with the mages and the rest of southern Thedas.
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:I hate her so much. [[User:Silver Warden|Silver Warden]] ([[User talk:Silver Warden|talk]]) 07:40, March 8, 2015 (UTC)
   
 
I was pro mage until they signed up with Tevinter and I met a particular bitchy pro-blood magic and mage supremacy woman in redcliffe tavern, turned on my heel and marched straight to Therinfal right then and there, it's far too risky to support the mages when they have attitudes like that, plus they kicked the arl out of his castle, why risk war with fereldan by allying with them? (I know it all works out in the end, but without cheating/spoiling for yourself the mages make a worse case than the templars to be recruited).--[[Special:Contributions/82.20.90.47|82.20.90.47]] ([[User talk:82.20.90.47|talk]]) 23:42, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
 
I was pro mage until they signed up with Tevinter and I met a particular bitchy pro-blood magic and mage supremacy woman in redcliffe tavern, turned on my heel and marched straight to Therinfal right then and there, it's far too risky to support the mages when they have attitudes like that, plus they kicked the arl out of his castle, why risk war with fereldan by allying with them? (I know it all works out in the end, but without cheating/spoiling for yourself the mages make a worse case than the templars to be recruited).--[[Special:Contributions/82.20.90.47|82.20.90.47]] ([[User talk:82.20.90.47|talk]]) 23:42, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 07:40, March 8, 2015

Forums: Index > Game Discussion > Templars, give me a reason
Note: This topic has been unedited for 1977 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not continue it unless it really needs a response.

If you prefer mages over templars then don't read it and don't reply.

In game Dragon Age: Inquisition player has option of choosing to ally with templars but existence of such option is a joke. Why would player even have a chance to recruit them if from the start they make no good impression on players? In Val Royeaux they behave like jerks when Fiona was well mannered and nice to the Inquisitor. Their knight-vigilant was murdered and even their leaders seeked their doom. Lucius slaughtered Seekers and Samson admitted he just wants to give them a chance to die in battle. If players experienced previous games then they have even less reasons to recruit templars since they are constantly shown in bad light. Such things steer players on mages. My problem is that templars give me no reason to recruit them, so please show me where are they? Andrzej.lewinski.351 (talk) 22:35, March 5, 2015 (UTC)


I don't really like either side, but I do feel a bit sympathy for the Templars. Not all the Templars are bad like Lucius or Samsom: if you do side with them, you see at Therinfal that in fact half or more of the order do not support the Red Templars and have to be forced to take Red Lyrium. The leaders might be evil, but a lot of the rank and file Templars are good people. DRAEVAN13 22:44, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Barris gave a little credit to divinity of the Herald but didn't have balls to defy Lucius in Val Royeaux or charisma to make his brothers in arms to trust the Inquisitor especially after Cullen and Cassandra's defections. All good templars died in games they appeared, I mean Otto or Emric. Samson seemed OK in Dragon Age II but in Inquisition he was a completelly different man. Many players enjoyed commical Carrol but we all know how he ended. Barris would give me more reasons to go to templars if he had been more active like writting a secret letter. The only reason I have to go to them is after doing this, it is saving them from becoming zombies stripped of humanity and free will. Corrupt officers give nobody any reason to support them. How many corrupt mages did you see among the rebels? I didn't see any. Mages allied with venatori when templars allied with directly with their master and his demon servant. Answer for question "Who was worse?" is obvious.Andrzej.lewinski.351 (talk) 23:03, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Much preference is usually the mages as we've seen a lot of bad from type Templars over the years however there purpose wasn't bad, aside from all the corruption we've seen in previous games the Templars still supported somethings they believed in the Chantry and the Maker and it wasn't all the Templars in Val Royeux who acted like jerks (that one what was his name Barius or something) and also the Fiona met in Val Royeux may not have actuakky been her ,while many are corrupt the same can be said for the mages examples of good Templars Cullen Alistair (he still counts) the blind Templar in DA:Os alienage ser Thrask you meet quite a few good Templars who just want to protect the mages from non mages and themselves and to serve the Maker. Even though Cassandra isn't a Templars she shares similar ideals with them and shows that those sort of people could still be good. I suppose form a role-playing point of view someone who was rping as a Templars or fear of magic might also want to recruit TemplarsBlitzbear93 (talk) 23:09, March 5, 2015 (UTC)Blitzbear93

The templars certainly give a worse first impression in Val Royeoux where (false) Lucius give a rant about how the templars are the chosen ones and everyone else is beneth them while (fake) Fiona is more like "Oh, Herald, I like you, please come to Redcliff", however knowing the plot of both sides I am more of a pro-templar. For one thing the templars never actually allied with Corypheous and his servants (unlike the mages although in their defense they did not know what master the venatori served) but were rather force-fed red lyrium by this great conspiracy corrupting them from top to bottom. People like Carrol are actually the reason you should go for the Templars because if you do he may never become a red templar. That a lowly litenuant like Barris could not actively disobey his superior officer (even though the superior officer is a demon in disguise) does not tell us much either, especially seeing the great peer pressure from his fellow templars, many of which had been secretly corrupted. Overall the templars give a far less "you brought this on yourselves" feeling than the mages, who did after all knowingly ally themselves whith a tevinter extremist group. Caspoi (talk) 23:48, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

(Er...whoever's post I just edited over sorry I coukdbt copy paste mine and kinda messed it up id poseted mine at same time as yours)

Just FYI, the "A Puppet Master" mission is available no matter what you do, so Carrol's fate is sealed. :'( Silver Warden (talk) 05:51, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
A pity, I admit that I have not done Emerald graves with my Templar character yet. Caspoi (talk) 07:19, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

The mages are whiny and unable to sustain themselves. I've been annoyed by them ever since DA:O. All they talk about is how they want freedom, but then what do they do? Turn around and start summoning demons. Because that's totally a great idea. Their stupidity is what caused all of their problems. They're always portrayed as the wounded party, when in reality they're the ones that have been digging themselves deeper and deeper into a hole. While the templars can be assholes, at least they protect people from mages (Since you know, the mages aren't responsible enough to keep their powers from hurting people). Also, in Val Royeaux it isn't the real Lucius OR Fiona. When you meet Fiona in Redcliffe she's like, "wtf I didn't ask you to come here." Oh, and everything Caspoi said. --Will3784 (talk) 01:11, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

I always find it difficult to side with the Templars, their actions in previous games aside. I don't like the idea of, if you side with the Templars, leaving all the villagers of Redcliffe to the whims of the Venatori, the fact that Alexius is practicing with time magic and is left to it and the fact that The Elder One would have access to a much more powerful stronghold of Redcliffe Castle. I mean sure, if you choose the mages, most of the Templars get transformed into Red Templars, but at least that's done in relative seclusion in Therinfal. I admit, during my first playthrough of DA: II, I sided with the Templars, mainly because all the mages were so whiny and Anders flat out annoyed me (such a pity too because he was my favourite character in Awakening), but I felt there wasn't the same "woe is me" with the mages as there was in DA: II and I could sympathise with them, that there was a proper injustice done to them. (ValerianCousland (talk) 01:22, March 6, 2015 (UTC))

Even in Inquisition, I feel the mages are whiny. In the Gull and Lantern (before the Redcliffe Castle portion of In Hushed Whispers), there's a mage that outright scorns the Inquisition's help, and even if the mages join the Inquisition, some of them continue to act contemptuous of the Inquisition; (I remember there being War Table operations where you have to quell protests or prevent terrorist acts). With the Templars, once they've joined the Inquisition, they're on the your side; they don't do anything to undermine the Inquisition's authority. On a side note, I always play as a mage; in DA2 and DAI, my characters avoid doing anything just because "they're mages too". They have a thought pattern similar to Wynne and Vivienne. In DA2, my mage Hawke sided with the Templars due to the fact that a mage was responsible for the deaths at the Chantry and because the city had a history of trouble with Blood Mages. 12.146.29.230 (talk) 03:19, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
You do realize that Wynne and Vivienne are anything but similar? While Wynne actually cares about mages and their plight (and cares more about the mages than their plight), Vivienne is just a greedy, power hungry pitch. All her talk about how mages had it good before is bull. She just wants the Sunburst Throne and she knows that a mage can only achieve that by being ultra conservative. The only thing that matters to her is her lust for power. Ugh, I hate that character.
As to the OP, while the ethical reasons for choosing one faction or another can be debated, going with the Templars is probably the superior tactical choice. For starts, while the mages are a loose association of talented individuals of varying disciple and experience, the Templars are already a military force. Cullen is an ex Knight-Commander and Cassandra is an ex Seeker, so even without the Herald's religious authority the Templars have two reasons to follow the Inquisition. The Inquisition has many ex-Templars in its ranks, so adding more Templars is less likely to create dissent among the ranks than adding mages. The people of Thedas trust the Templars and if they join the Inquisition (even if conscripted) Leliana says the public is more trusting of the Inquisition as a result. Finally, the events at Redcliffe are revealed to be a trap by Alexius and the Venatori. Why would the Inquisitor willingly walk into a trap when there's another option? Yes, I know there are reasons to take the bait and help the mages, I've done it myself (twice). But a more practical minded, less empathic Inquisitor might think "screw the mages then, let's see what the Templars have". Silver Warden (talk) 05:51, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
I don't think Vivienne was very power hungry. In dialogue, it's the Inquisitor who brings up the idea of her being Divine, not her. The impression I got from her is that her chief interest is being comfortable and respected. Whether or not she's wholly selfish, the fact is that she helps the Inquisition restore order/peace. 12.146.29.230 (talk) 19:30, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
Vivienne is the embodiment of a power hungry politician. She can become Divine whether or not the Inquisitor mentions it as a possibility. In my first playthrough I was shocked to see Vivienne become Divine in the epilogue. At the time I wasn't aware that was possible. There are hints throughout the game that she has been playing "the Game" and manipulating her way toward positions of power long before she joined the Inquisition. She even became duke Bastien de Ghislain mistress in order to gain political influence. Yes, she probably had legitimate feelings for the guy but those were likely at result of her being his mistress, rather than the cause. Anyway, when Vivienne meets Bastien's family after he dies, she drops some very subtle hints that this was exactly the outcome she desired. I don't think she killed Bastien, but she likely attached herself to him so that when he died she would gain even more political influence through his relatives. Silver Warden (talk) 21:06, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
for the first time ever I'll have to agree with you bro, the only reason I like her as divine is because she'd be great... she can play the game like no other (or so it has been said) and has a kind heart (beneath tons of layers of crap), while Cassie has great heart and is passionate she cannot play the game even if her life depended on it and Leliana can play the game but her faith is long gone... so it is ponly Viviene.--DaveManiac3 21:19, March 6, 2015 (UTC)
I think it's a little weird that the game makes it difficult to elect Leliana (compared to the other two) since there's no Support Leliana war table operation. 12.146.29.230 (talk) 05:31, March 7, 2015 (UTC)
As for Vivienne becoming Divine in your first playthrough, most likely, some actions were done that supported her poltical views, http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Divine_election 12.146.29.230 (talk) 05:31, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

I sided with them in my latest playthrough, and I got to say their questline was somewhat more interesting than the mages. Also the Venitori are a lot less of a pain to kill than the Red Templars. I haven't gotten to Calpernia yet, but I heard she's pretty cool... as a rival that is. Also on the issue of Vivienne, I feel that she does care for the mages (her reaction to the treatment of the tranquil for example) but her own survival comes first. Think about it her getting more political power and influence is pretty much the same plan as Hawke's was (exceptional if their a mage). I don't believe becoming Bastien's mistress was part of her official plan, but it did help and it's clearly the real thing. If anyone tries to say other wise they're blind! Vivienne is ambitious, yes but I don't get why the hate for her? She's highly intelligent women who's has put a lot of hard work into getting where she is. Sure she could use her influence in a more direct manner to help mages, but in a sense her just being in that position should inspire some confidence. Plus she has some of the best party banter! --90.219.216.14 (talk) 21:03, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

To be clear I don't hate Viviene as a character, I think she's well written. Which is why I hate the character. As in, if I met someone like that in real life I could not spend more than five minutes in the same room with them.
Viviene is a politician motivated purely by a lust for power. End of story. Yes, her feelings for Bastien were genuine but they were the result of her schemes, not vice versa. The fact that she is capable of feeling empathy toward the tranquil doesn't change the fact that she is motivated solely by a desire to become Divine. If she becomes Divine, she basically just restores the old order. Only an idiot would think that was a good idea. And since we know Viviene isn't an idiot, we can only conclude that her actions the result of her selfish desire for power. She knows a mage can only be Divine if she stays true to the old ways.
Viviene portrays the circle like a paradise, assumes the absolute worst of both her fellow mages and the public, and fails completely to recognize the extent of the Templars' abuse of the mages. Again, we know she is not stupid so we must conclude that she is lying in order to justify her conservative stance. If a Templar or Revered Mother said the things she does about mages, we could assume that they were ignorant of the mages' plight and possibly brainwashed to fear mages. Viviene has experienced life as a mage, both within a circle and without. She'd have to be completely deluded to truly hold the beliefs she professes given her intelligence and experience. And we know that she isn't. She is a lying, scheming, selfish, soulless politician whose backwards policies will only cause more trouble with the mages and the rest of southern Thedas.
I hate her so much. Silver Warden (talk) 07:40, March 8, 2015 (UTC)

I was pro mage until they signed up with Tevinter and I met a particular bitchy pro-blood magic and mage supremacy woman in redcliffe tavern, turned on my heel and marched straight to Therinfal right then and there, it's far too risky to support the mages when they have attitudes like that, plus they kicked the arl out of his castle, why risk war with fereldan by allying with them? (I know it all works out in the end, but without cheating/spoiling for yourself the mages make a worse case than the templars to be recruited).--82.20.90.47 (talk) 23:42, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

One word: Barris. Also you get to recruit Cole earlier. --100.36.168.78 (talk) 01:56, March 8, 2015 (UTC)

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