i know from diverse source of dragon age lore that the darker spirits ( a.k.a. demon ) have a hierarchy of sort either based on an individual spirit personal power or the influence that it as toward other of it's kind ( or maybe a mix of the two ? ) if i'm not mistaken ( and if i am please politly post the revised copy no need to hit me over the head with a dwarven mace ok ! ) they are from most to least powerful : pride, desire, sloth, hunger and rage ! what i want to know is if the "good" spirit ( such as faith and compasion ) have a similar power/influence based hierarchy ( and also how many are there and the virtue with which they are associated ? ) more importantly if it's possible for a "good" spirit to become so corrupted as to fall from grace ( so to speak ) and become a demon ( case in point justice becoming vengeance )is it possible for a demon to rise into grace and become a "good" spirit ? and if such transformation is possible in either direction what would they be called ? ( for exemple what is the virtue that's oposit of pride and what would be the "sin" that's oposit faith and so on ? ) DragonInquisitor (talk) 03:12, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
You got the order right, though I'd like to point out that it's only a general guideline. Take the Sloth demon from the circle tower quest. He was way more powerful that any demon we've encountered since, but he's only a "sloth" demon. But, in general pride demons are more powerful than rage demons.
The good spirits that we know of so far are: compassion, valor, justice, faith, and hope (in order of ascending power). Apparently a corrupted faith spirit becomes a pride demon, and I imagine corrupted compassion spirits become rage demons. The opposite of valor is probably sloth. The opposite of justice is of course vengeance. As for the others, it's unclear. I think the spirit versions of hunger and desire, as well as the demon version of hope just haven't been seen yet. I'd call the opposite of hunger contentment and the opposite of desire generosity. Despair is the opposite of hope, and I think despair demons are one of the new enemies in Inquisition.
I don't think a demon could ever turn back into a spirit. Hypothetically it could happen, but it seems more likely that the process is one-way. Plus, when would a demon ever want to become good again? What could suddenly calm a rage demon, or humble a pride demon? Justice is corrupted because of Andres's hatred, he never would have gone bad on his own. So unless some uber-chill mage gets possessed by a rage demon and then, through sheer force of will, manages to mellow it into a spirit of compassion, I don't think demons can ever be redeemed. Silver Warden (talk) 06:51, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
- If demons are unable to revert back to spirits, then how would one explain the Lady of the Forest. The Lady of the Forest, as Witherfang did not seem like it embodied any virtues, just self gratification which is a trait common in demons yet it evolved into something else. If a spirit chooses to imitate virtues like justice or vices like pride, they do so because that is all they know how to be hypothetically. Yet when they possess a living being they can achieve self-actualization and they can be whatever it is they choose to be. So i theory, it is possible for a demon to revert back I suppose granted the possessed is able to change the spirits mind and feelings.
- The Lady of the Forest isn't a fade spirit, Zathrian summoned her from the forest itself. Silver Warden (talk) 20:05, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
"What could suddenly calm a rage demon, or humble a pride demon?" For a rage demon, love could be a better alternative than hate. To humble a pride demon, despair or whatever shatters the delusions of narcissism. (Sports72Xtrm (talk) 07:13, May 16, 2014 (UTC))
- Witherfang is a possessed wolf, not a demon. Lady of the forrest fully possess the wolf and she can change form as she sees fit. If Lady of the forrest is a spirit of justice, then she helped Zathrian and later the werewolves, because then the latter became one to punish.
- What I'm trying to get at is people have these 2 dimensional views on spirits, that they are only good or bad and can be nothing else. They can't be as complex as humans, but the Lardy of the Forest and Cole seemed to have develop an understanding that goes beyond the abstract concepts they choose to embody. If Justice can turn into Vengeance because of Ander's hatred, why can't it be done for demons?(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 10:04, May 16, 2014 (UTC))
Interesting topic. What I find interesting is that this is the second or third time that I realize DA's writing staff has "borrowed" a concept from another intellectual property just short of plagiarism. If only Geoff Johns knew about this. -- Soulofshezarr (talk) 20:10, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
- Oh please. He does not own the right to the concepts of demons, spirits, good spirit beings going evil (or vice versa), spirit/demon possession, or metaphyiscal beings embodying human emotions/desires/mental states. There are numerous examples of all of that in mythology. The spirit-demon dichotomy could easily be compared to fallen angels, for example. If anything, they probably both drew from the same or similar source materials, such as christian demonology. And that's in the public domain, so it can't be plagiarized. I mean, you might as well say that George Lucas invented all sci-fi, and all other science fiction that takes place in space is plagiarism.
- This kind of thinking stifles creativity. The point of copyrighting intellectual property is so that big companies cannot take an artist's idea and copy-paste it into something they can sell. It is not meant to justify obscene amounts of litigation. Silver Warden (talk) 22:57, May 16, 2014 (UTC)
- If you don't know what I'm talking about then why comment? LOL. Michael Kirkbride's material was bitten too. I think I'm old enough to make the distinction between borrowing and copying. David Gaider copies a lot! Feel free to keep on disagreeing though. -- Soulofshezarr (talk) 20:51, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
- Really? Because borrowing and copying can be mutually exclusive. The matter of the fact is, all fantasies influences each other, all genres in some way or the other they can influence each other, and if it means incorporating ideas then fair enough. Silver's point here is good though. That's like claiming time travelling in Back to the Future is plagiarising something else. What i'm saying is that even though it may be "copied", it doesn't mean the entire story is flawed. But hey, I'm probably off topic anyways XD. Sorry if I'm totally off that road.
22:01, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
- Really? Because borrowing and copying can be mutually exclusive. The matter of the fact is, all fantasies influences each other, all genres in some way or the other they can influence each other, and if it means incorporating ideas then fair enough. Silver's point here is good though. That's like claiming time travelling in Back to the Future is plagiarising something else. What i'm saying is that even though it may be "copied", it doesn't mean the entire story is flawed. But hey, I'm probably off topic anyways XD. Sorry if I'm totally off that road.
- Yeah, sorry for derailing. I just don't like David Gaider much so when I find ammo I take the shot. At least I'm honest about it. Anyways yeah, sorry for going off topic Silver Warden and Lazare.
- Cole is relevant to this topic and apparently he's a companion. I don't know how that'll work, but I'm not to fond of having a psychotic pseudo-demon posing as a human on the team-- Soulofshezarr (talk) 22:14, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
- No worries Souloshezarr XD. Don't worry, not a lot of people here are enthused by Gaider either. On that note, Cole as a companion has got me split in 2 ways. I just hope he doesn't end up as Anders 2.0. 22:22, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
- No worries Souloshezarr XD. Don't worry, not a lot of people here are enthused by Gaider either. On that note, Cole as a companion has got me split in 2 ways. I just hope he doesn't end up as Anders 2.0.
- I know exactly what you're talking about. Geoff Johns writes Green Lantern stuff, yes? Or do you mean some other Geoff Johns? Anyway, the emotional electromagnetic spectrum is only similar to fade spirits in that they both embody human emotions/mental states/desires. In christian mythology, there are seven deadly sins and seven virtues. There are also christian demons that are associated with the sins. I think it's a safe bet that they both were inspired by the seven sins/virtues. Silver Warden (talk) 23:54, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
- Cool. I'm not Catholic/Christian so I only have a superficial knowledge of the seven sins. But yeah I meant the Green Lantern books. And when I was talking about Mike Kirkbride I was referring to the plot of Morrowind and the Blight from DA:O. But like I said I just don't like Gaider. But this is off topic. Sorry for taking there. --- Soulofshezarr (talk) 00:04, May 18, 2014 (UTC)
According to Merrill, all the spirits are just as diverse as the people in the mortal realm. While Merrill is naïve and doesn't consider all the consequences of her actions, she is however an extremely knowledge person when it comes to magic and the fade.
If Pride demon is the supreme demon and a corrupted Spirit of Faith may become a pride demon, doesn't it mean the faith spirit is the supreme spirit?78.8.131.195 (talk) 16:58, May 18, 2014 (UTC)