I'm done with mages, qunari, chantry, demons and dragons, so I'm looking for a new topic. I can imagine casteless organise a revolution against millenia of social injustice. In France and Russia were rebellions of commoners against royality and the commoners were victorious. Nobles and warriors are trained figthers and have golems, so what? Casteless are more and numbers always matter. It will be a long and bloody civil war in the dwarven kingdom, Orzammar or Kal Sharok will be ruined and nobles exectuted bestially. Dwarves have no magic, so it will be more realistic war than those on the surface. How do you think this situation will go?
They are Dwarves nobody cares. --87.95.33.91 (talk) 08:53, November 3, 2012 (UTC)Lord Rahl
- I'm bored of mage templar conflict, so I look for different topics.
Dwarves are boring.--87.95.33.91 (talk) 11:17, November 3, 2012 (UTC)Lord Rahl
No need for rebelion if you side with Bhelen Aeducan and put him on the throne. But than again, that still leaves Kal Sharok.
Nobody cares for Elves or Dwarves they are no interest of no one. --87.95.33.91 (talk) 14:37, November 3, 2012 (UTC)Lord Rahl
- Nobody cares about your opinions, you're self centred and nobody likes you unless you pay them. If you don't like topic of forum, then simply don't involve. And ereasing texts of others you don't like shows only how rude, unsympathetic and immature you are. You're only a lord of your selfishness.
The Casteless lack the proper arms to fight a war. The warrior caste will be called in and all rebelious casteless slaughtered. The only solution I see is for the casteless to move to the surface and have good lives as Ferelden citizens. Believe it! (talk) 14:43, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
- That's exactly what they should do. I imagine this occurred with my dwarven commoner after he became Teyrn of Gwaren. Dwarves from all over flocked to Gwaren to begin a new life. Their culture will slowly begin to change as all the laborers are fleeing to Gwaren, which would force change rather peacefully.--Gutbuster66 (talk) 16:19, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
I view the whole scenario highly unlikely even to happen (excluding possible Bhelen's involvement), not to say the castless winning. Here's why:
- "In France and Russia were rebellions of commoners against royality and the commoners were victorious" - And ended up with even worse tyranny after that, but, really, it wouldn't be an example to illustrate the dwarven situation. This parallel could be brought up regarding possible rebellions of slaves in Tevinter or serfs in Orlais, but dwarven caste system is rooted far more deep. Ever heard about lower castes in India rebelling with any success?
:Rebels never care first about new goverment, but about destroying the current goverment, that's what all rebels do. Indian castes and dwarven ones aren't the same and comparing India to Kal Sharok is pointless.
- "Nobles and warriors are trained figthers and have golems, so what?" - I apologize in advance for being too sarcastic, but, yeah, really, so what? Since when did skill, quality armament and cutting edge technology matter in wars?
::By this I meant commoners are more than nobles and warriors and even armed can loose. I read about many wars won by weaker, but more numberous sides of conflicts. Also the higher castes also underestimate lower castes and that's their weakness.
- Assuming the castless will even have larger numbers, then warriors and nobles, it's in the open field numbers can allow to outmaneuver the enemy, hit their flanks or encircle them. Orzammar is not an open field, it's all narrow passages, where a small unit of warriors with enchanted and runed armour and weapons can hold for who longs how long. Or a single golem can hold, like, forever, and I have a hard time picturing Dusttown junkies disabling it with sticks and stones. Really, numbers do not matter much in Orzammar, unless they equal darkspawn numbers during the First Blight.
- The surface kingdoms wouldn't be interested in the lyrium trade being paralyzed, so they would likely send aid sooner or later, and possibly even send mages, if things go south. As we all know, mages can turn the tide of any battle, or even a war.
All in all, I don't really believe in castless rebelling, however, say, a mass exodus of the castless to the surface will give the nobles of both Orzammar and surface kingdoms a headache, and that will be an interesting situation too. -Algol- (talk) 14:49, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
- I sometimes think that siding with Harrowmont over Bhelen is ultimately the most positive outcome for Orzammar's casteless for just this sort of reason. Either that and/or the casteless must be allowed a new place in Orzammar, closer to the other castes, and all sides must begin to wrangle with each other. At any rate I would like to see more of their plight acknowledged.--WardenWade (talk) 19:32, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't be so quick to assume the casteless have no chance at all. Keep in mind that Beraht and Jarvia evaded the authorities for a long time before the Warden interfered. And consider that the Warriors are constantly fighting and dieing in the deep roads and that the nobles are often killing each other. The casteless could certainly (baring a helpful ruler like Bhelen giveing the more freedom, or equiping Harrowmont with golems) prove to cause a significant dent within Orzammars power structure. Though in the end I think that the casteless would fall prey to the same corruption that would give them and early advantage. They would likely end up fighting each other... because thats what dwarves do--Cheesecake Dragon (talk) 14:54, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Criminal activity is one thing, open warfare is another. Beraht and Jarvia evaded the authorities, because those authorities didn't care for them, while they were in Dusttown, or didn't care for them because of the power struggle, when Jarvia started to spread her influence, In case of open rebellion in the middle of Orzammar I guess the authorities will be quick to start caring.-Algol- (talk) 15:07, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
Hi. First of all great topic, I love all things Orzammer! The castless actually do revolt if you chose to support Harrowmont and preserve the Anvil but they are crushed by the warriors and golems and so end up in a worse position than before they started. Also, the people who are arguing that the casteless would overwelm the warrior caste with numbers are vastly over-estimating the number of casteless in dust town. If you consult the wiki you will find that the bulk of Orzammers population come from the servant caste, these are good, honest Dwarves who are proud to serve the other castes and look down apon the casteless (unlikely to support a revolution). In addition the Warrior caste must, by necessity and suggested by in game lore, make up another large part of the popultion (we know that House Aeducan alone sponsers over a dozen warrior houses). This puts the castless as a relativly small part of Orzammer's population. Thus I can't see any armed revolution being a success for the casteless Dwarves.--Kroem (talk) 23:40, November 4, 2012 (UTC)
As the person above me said: this happens in-game. What happened? The casteless got crushed. End of discussion really. One could debate on the hows and so forth, but it seems very obvious to me. Well equipped forces+well trained forces+well fed forces+potentially golems+at least even numbers= victory for the castes.--Agent047 (talk) 21:27, November 5, 2012 (UTC)
I'd also question the claim that a casteless exodus would even be so much as a headache for the casted. The casteless are not "working poor", they are unemployed, considered unsuitable by ancestry for any sort of work. From what we see in the games, the casteless (not under Bhelen) are limited to being beggars, whores, criminals, teeth donors, and Golem-making test-subjects (also that one guy who catches nugs). At least one surface dwarf who is technically casteless is tolerated as a merchant, and that's about it. I doubt the other castes would care two copper for their absence. It would only create a headache if the casteless create problems topside, and those problems trickle back to Orzammar through angry topsider lords.
Regarding numbers, I agree that they are small. We know that in Kal'hirol, there were a mere 500 adult casteless when the thaig was abandoned, and it was one of the greater thaigs in the kingdom. In comparison, if you pester Oghren about the chances of Branka's survival, he states that her house had 200 members - one house amongst probably dozens if not hundreds. So, yeah, slaughter. 131.215.35.183 (talk) 04:07, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
Victory is a matter of strategy. Carta can inflitrate castle and assassinate all guards and nobles, so then they could steal weapons and even golems, then the casteless revolutionist have more chance for victory.62.87.146.93 (talk) 06:22, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
I can't remember -- how able are the casteless to leave for the surface? That would seem like a natural escape valve for unrest, if it's not too hard to do. A casteless dwarf who has enough gumption to rebel probably also has enough to just leave and try to make a new life topside. After all, at least up there it might be possible to advance yourself through work, as opposed to being once a casteless, always a casteless in dwarven civilization. Diyartifact (talk) 06:43, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
- Most of Dwarves are ignorant, they are afraid of the surface and believe by going on the surface they are forever beyond the Stone, that's stupid to me, because that's what made them casteless. Amando said Stone gave casteless nothing, so why do they care about it. Dwarves have a rule about their city like in ancient Greece - leaving the city means no longer being welcome there and having no right there.62.87.146.93 (talk) 06:51, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
I think bioware are going for that revolution arc with the mages. They seem to be taking influences. Eg- French Rev the fall of the Bastille led to a nation wide revolt. As did Anders' actions at destroying that chantry.—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
- You're writing off topic! Don't do it again and stop spreading your idiotic propaganda! By doing this you act like a brainwashed fanatical supporter. That topic is about dwarves and no other group else, so don't mention mages there!78.9.152.164 (talk) 19:41, May 28, 2013 (UTC)
Brayker7 IS A IDIOT
Shut up brayker, somebody was going on about the russian revolution so STFU. Im merley stating. Stop being rude and get a life you wanker,and how the fuck is it propaganda. DO YOU KNOW THE MEANING OF THAT WORD YOU IDIOT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID. SUPPORTER OF WHAT ???? BASTARD—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
"In France and Russia were rebellions of commoners against royality and the commoners were victorious." Yap in russia we have communism, and in france we have "parent 1 and parent 2"...62.21.8.178 (talk) 10:30, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
I still think casteless will rise.78.9.148.79 (talk) 12:21, November 2, 2013 (UTC)