I realize there is already a discussion here with info regarding the DA Keep, but I don't wish to add to that because it will just be lost at the end of a bunch of factual info and this is not related in that way, so I am making this its own topic. Please forgive any harsh language I use, and I apologize if any of this offends anybody.
Am I the only person angry about this "solution" to importing saves?? As an idea, it's great. A checklist of things that will carry over - no more glitching saves or incorrectly recognized plot flags or whatever else. I have some pretty HUGE problems with this, though, that not many people seem to really care about (from what I've seen):
- You need internet access to use it.
I'm sorry, but since when should you be required to have internet to play video games? Some video games - sure. Forget the fact that I'm on the internet right now while I type this - I am not complaining just for my own sake. This is complete BS. It doesn't matter that it's a one-time deal and then you're done needing the internet (for right then, anyways), you shouldn't need it to begin with for something like this. This also means that...
- You will need to use the Keep every time you start a new playthrough using a different world state.
I don't care how little of an issue this seems to be to some people, this is shitty. Also, because of how this works...
- You will need an Origin account/ID to use it.
So if I wish to have a playthrough that reflects my past decisions and world state, I need to create an Origin account? Are you freaking kidding me? Why has this been made so complicated? What happened to the days when you could buy a game, put the disk in, and just freaking PLAY THE GAME? Why do I have to make an account for something online to play a game I bought? Are you telling me that I could pay money for a game, own it, and have certain features locked out for me because I don't wish to create some online bullshit account just so I can play the game not using the default world state? This isn't even DLC or something. Just... what the hell?
I do not understand why this is being handled this way. Why is this not just a feature put into the game? "Start New Game > Quickstart (default) or Create World State (Keep/whatever) > PLAY GAME"... I just.. I don't understand this choice. It's also worth asking - what happens when the servers for this stuff are shut off? I don't know much about how exactly this will work, but I imagine that one day the servers supporting this stuff are going to be shut off. (I mean Cloud support? Really?) So what happens, then?
I can imagine how this might sound, and I am anticipating responses along the lines of "If you don't like it, then screw you! Nobody cares!" "Go play something else," or "get over it" but am I really the only person so unhappy with this? I'm sorry (I'm not, actually), but this whole thing just seems so ...shitty. 68.13.7.120 (talk) 00:53, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
- You'll need a Origin-Account to play DAI for sure, so I don't see why it matters that you need an Origin-Account to logg into DA Keep as well. --Andauril (talk) 21:25, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
I was at first, then i started to think about how xbox players would get to port across consoles (especially considering how the xbone seems hell bent or making every customer interaction as detestable as possible) and it didn't bother me as much. My opinions are also based on very little solid information but lets assume.
The keep may be huge: Maybe its too big to fit on the disc? obviously this is speculation and I'm not silly enough to assume the decision to keep it online isn't also motivated in part for marketing/information gathering purposes.
In short does it need to be online? For players playing across gens or simply shifting from one console to another (i for example was a previous 360 player who switched to PC recently cause I didn't like the direction the XBONE was going in) its helpful. Whether it has to be online is of course debatable but at this point it's impossible to answer --Tabristhegreat (talk) 01:44, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
- I don't really see how something like this could be so big it's not worth including on the disk/as part of the game, to be honest. I also don't really see how this improves simplicity for people switching to different consoles - if it's just included in the game then doesn't that make it simpler for everyone in *every* regard? Just makes sense, to me... 68.13.7.120 (talk) 20:05, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
agree with everything you said,why the keep need to be online?just put in the fucking game! ([User talk:Dragon TheDestroyer|talk]])
First of all we do not know the specifics regarding your need for internet (you might only need it when accessing the keep on the computer. Second of all many games today require things like Origin or Steam to play so it is not a new thing (I was not even aware that you require origin to access the keep). Third of all it would be an immense thing to have to create a world state every time you start a new game (including all your previous choices) instead of already having it created when you start playing. Fourth of all there are many improvements by this system (cross-console importing one of them). So the Keep is overall a major improvement. Caspoi (talk) 15:03, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
- It's true that many games require Origin or Steam, but many games don't. Especially if you are playing on an Xbox or Playstation. Part of what's bugging me about this is that it just seems like an excuse to force people who want to play to get an Origin ID.
- "[...] it would be an immense thing to have to create a world state every time you start a new game (including all your previous choices) instead of already having it created when you start playing." What I said doesn't imply that you'd have to create a new world state (or recreate the same world state previously used) every time you play - you'd have the same capabilities of saving a world state just like it's been talked about with the Keep. The only difference is that you wouldn't have to access the feature *online* each time you wanted to do it.
- "Fourth of all there are many improvements by this system (cross-console importing one of them). So the Keep is overall a major improvement." I don't think you really understood what I'm trying to say. I don't have a problem with the Keep as an idea - that's actually basically the first thing I said in this post. What I have a problem with is how this is going to be implemented. 68.13.7.120 (talk) 20:05, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
So what your saying is that you would like to have the keep as a part of the game instead of as a separate piece? I suppose it is doable but would not really help cross-console importing and would add some more space (this might be inevitable though). Caspoi (talk) 23:52, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
- What? Why would this not help with cross-console importing? That doesn't make any sense. Whatever the Keep is/does, it would be included with the game by default. Meaning, you know, everyone who buys the game would be able to use it. How does that not help cross-console importing? 68.13.7.120 (talk) 06:14, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
What I meant was that you can not take an created save on one console and use it in another. Caspoi (talk) 15:56, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
From what I understood of it, you only needed to download it once from an Origin account, then you have it. And the Origin account is so they can send you email. Just unsubscribe from their newsletter when you get it. From there you just use Keep whenever you want. The more troubling requirement is that many EA games now require a login just to play. Hope Inquisition isn't like that. Also, you won't have to use Keep for a new playthrough, but obviously if you want to load a different DA:O/A and DA2 worldstate into a new Inquisition playthrough, then yeah, you'll obviously have to make a new Keep checklist if you want it to reflect your past games. Believe it! (talk) 15:38, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
- "you only needed to download it once from an Origin account, then you have it." Yeah, but that means you have to create an Origin account to access a part of the game that there is literally no reason you should not be able to access without one. I disagree with what you said about the Origin account being needed so they can send you email - I'm actually wondering now if it's part of some BS to prevent piracy or something... you *have* to connect your Origin account to your game somehow to import a world state, so... That's kinda shit, in my opinion.
- "From there you just use Keep whenever you want." From what I understood, you'll need to access the internet every time you want to use the Keep to create a world state. I could have misunderstood, though I don't *think* I did. "The more troubling requirement is that many EA games now require a login just to play." Yep. Hence, this angry post about it. I'm just... ugh. Kind of not sure I even want to deal with this crap at this point. And that may mean not buying this game. 68.13.7.120 (talk) 20:05, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
- I've not seen any information describing the Keep as a downloadable application... the official FAQ says that it is a "companion website for players of Dragon Age games, dedicated to connecting all products in the Dragon Age franchise together" and "the Keep is online only and is free for everyone. All you need is an Origin ID to log in". (Bolding mine for emphasis.) Theskymoves (talk) 01:49, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
- I was not the person who originally said it was a "downloadable application." I was quoting the person I replied to, hence the quotation marks. So, yeah. The stuff you just said is exactly what I take issue with. 68.13.7.120 (talk) 06:14, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Okay IP'er, I researched it and watched an interview about it. The world creator is online only, not downloadable... WHICH IS BULLSHIT!! but I guess it isn't that bad for now. Once you create your world state via some interactive... comic... novel... thing, you'll be able to save it in your Origin account and/or download all the info to your flash drive or hard drive and then make a copy of it or whatever, and you can load it up from Inquisition. Once you download it, you have it. You won't need to use the Origin account anymore after that... unless you want to load a new world state from some other set of playthroughs. But you won't need to be logged in to the Origin account to play the game.
- As for stopping piracy, using Origin for the purpose of world states doesn't stop that. You can still play Inquisition without importing any Keep data. So there's that. Also, the Origin account doesn't track anything in your game or computer...
- ...or does it?
- However, I am certain they will make the Keep downloadable a some point in the future. Otherwise they would have to run their servers for years and years... or not, and then players are left without a way to play their custom world states. Either that, or some hacker will figure it out and make a program for it. Believe it! (talk) 03:34, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Look at all of the steps you listed there - that's crazy. It just.. doesn't make any sense to do it this way when it would be so much simpler as part of the main game, and not some online application or whatever. 68.13.7.120 (talk) 06:14, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
Wasn't it said that all the decisions you make in Inquisition automaticly get uploaded to the keep, if you have internet (Don't quote me on this)? That would mean they plan to use this feature in future installments. Having it online makes sense that way. This way, you only have to fill in the Keep once, and it will keep track of everything you have done. In future installments you won't have to go through the trouble of going through the keep again. The entire Origin buissness also bugs me, but it is seen an seperate "instalment" of Dragon Age, it isn't part of Inquisition. It isn't that strange Origin is needed to gain acces it, as it is an online EA product. --M. Shields (talk) 02:19, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
I will summarize my response to the original post as follows: Welcome to Modern Gaming. ----Isolationistmagi 02:52, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
As someone who only plays on PC, neither having an Origin account or needing internet to use the Keep bothers me much because I will need Origin to play DAI anyways, and if it's anything like ME3, it will have to authorize any DLC EVERY time I log in other wise I won't be able to load any saves including DLC (and I preordered, so I will have DLC right off the bat), so needing internet to use the Keep doesn't bother me either. Now, the fact that I will probably need internet to play DAI on the other hand, that I'm not so happy about, but it does seem to be what EA is leaning towards lately. In fact, it really annoyed me in ME3 before I moved into town because my internet was unreliable, and if it was a bad day, I couldn't load any of my saves because it couldn't authorize the DLC...
So yeah, I can see why it sucks (the internet part at least - enough games make you sign up for some program of the publishers' (Origin, Steam, UPlay, etc) that needing an Origin account is fairly expected), but I do think you are overreacting.--CountSilvershroud (talk) 03:02, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
We'll agree to disagree on this whole topic. I have no issues with needing an origin ID or internet connection. You keep bringing up Xbox & PS but they BOTH want an internet connection and logins as well (and subscriptions to boot). It's the world we live in now. With stable internet connections becoming more widely available it will be a requirement more and more.
It sounds more to me like personal EA bias. I've had an origin account for years and use it pretty much daily. Its just like Steam. No big bad boogy man is sending me emails, taking over my system, or shoving obscene things in my face. It hasn't hack my computer and sent out "conform or die" emails to any of my friends. My one and only bitch about the whole set up was when their server went down I couldn't play in offline mode on ME3 but they've done a good amount of improvement on that front.Vhardamis (talk) 05:07, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
- "You keep bringing up Xbox & PS but they BOTH want an internet connection and logins as well" - Not to just play the BASE GAME, they don't. That's great for you if you live the kind of life that lets you believe everybody everywhere has great internet access, but it's just not true. And I'm sorry, but some people LIKE not having to sign up for loads of frivolous garbage just to play a game. It's not some personal bias against EA, but thank you for completely trivializing my complaints.
- You say you've had an Origin account for years, and you use it "pretty much" daily - that's great for you, and it makes sense then that you'd be fine with this. But is it so hard to put aside your own personal view for just a second to see that not everyone IS fine with this, and not because they're some paranoid person afraid of some "big bad boogy man"? I have my own reasons for disliking this, many of them things that I've explained and many of them are things that just *make more sense* (like just plain including this kind of thing with the base game). I mean, hell - you even mention the fact that when the servers would go down you couldn't play in offline mode. Improvement or no, that kind of thing should not even be an issue to begin with. 68.13.7.120 (talk) 06:14, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
You're the first and only person I've seen who's had such a negative opinion about it, I'll give you that much. So, onto your points:
1. You need internet access to use it - Yes. Sorry dude, but this is 2014, and video games are even more of a luxury than the internet, which is rapidly becoming required for basic functioning in modern society, as well as the workforce. Needing or having online components is not only here to stay, it's not a new concept either. Not to mention it's obviously not out of your reach, seeing as you're here to talk about this. You do not need a constant internet connection for the entire duration of your play to use it, nor do you need to log in every time you load up your save game. It's once, at the beginning. If that's too much for you then I don't really know what to tell you man.
2. You will need to use the Keep every time you start a new playthrough using a different world state - Yes. Is that really such a big deal? It takes a lot less time for me to do that than to replay Origins and DA2 and DLC to create a new world state than it does to do so in the Keep. Something like 100+ hours vs. ten minutes. Not to mention cross-platform and all means it wouldn't be possible for me to transfer my saves over even if I did choose the long way.
3. You will need an Origin account/ID to use it - You will need an Origin account/ID to play the game period, so I don't see why this is a problem. All EA games require this these days, and have for some time.
4. "The keep may be huge: Maybe its too big to fit on the disc?" - Yes. The Keep is not just some software app with the entire Dragon Age universe loaded into it, it's a website and database, intended for use far longer than just Inquisition. When the next game comes out, you'll use the Keep to import data from Origins, DA2 and Inquisition into that one, and the next one all of those into it, and so on. It's going to grow and change with every game, and it's far more economical and easier if they have it be a malleable website they can update and maintain on their end, which will reflect those changes immediately to you via any browser on a computer, phone, or console, than a downloadable mini-program which can not account for changes without needing constant patches, or even entire re-downloads for newer versions reflecting new games and content. Which, by the way, you would need the internet to get, because they are not going to keep pressing new disks to give you a newer version of the already free Dragon Age Keep.
"Whether it has to be online is of course debatable but at this point it's impossible to answer" - Well, I sorta just did answer that in part 4 so...
In short, I'm in the beta, I'm testing the Keep and its functionality, and have been doing so for quite awhile now, so I know a lot more about the Keep and how it works than you do right now. Don't knock it until you actually get to try it friend. Maybe you won't like it, and if that's the case then fine, you're entitled to that opinion, but you might be surprised. 67.61.238.87 (talk) 06:36, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
I think 67.61.238.87 already said almost every major points, but I would also like to add another one which I didn't see while overlooking this thread: The plans Bioware may had with the Keep.
When the Keep was announced a few month ago, Bioware said they were still looking for ways to import our savegames into the Keep. While this feature now seems unlikely to be included, it seems it was part of the original concept for the Keep.
A second feature which will not be supported, but was heavily rumoured, was the ability to save a worldstate to your PC and the use a USB Drive to transfer it to e.g. a console.
In the assumption that this features, and maybe more that we do not know about, were originally planed to be implemented, then a web-based application would be the most rational decision for the Keep. In this context, a solution like the one you suggested, namely the Keep shipped together with the Game, would be useless, because it would make Cross-Gen imports almost impossible and therefor would deny the original prupose of the Keep.
I apologies for my bad english and hope I made my point of view clear.--Nikero (talk) 11:03, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
All right IP'er, I think I can solve this. I didn't post a ton of steps in my post. It goes like this: Origin account, DA Keep world state creation, save world state to computer, play Dragon Age: Inquisition and load the world state. That's it. The part about making copies is optional in case you want to backup your info.
However, I am now on your side. DA Keep looks like crap now. We can't import our saves to even help fill out the checklist. Major inconvenience. Also, we cannot import personal info about the Hero or Champion. We can only fill in the basics like race, gender, class, and origin. That's bullshit! They say DA Keep will allow for every possible choice, but I have my doubts. Is the Cousland going to be able to be king (consort to some) and have that reflected in Inquisition? What about the in-between stuff after he became king but before the disappearance? Next, using the Origin account to be able to play the game at all is complete bullshit! If you buy a game it should be ready to play. Period. I don't care about what year it is. Logging on to some website to play a game I paid $50+ for is bad service. And besides, that isn't going to stop pirates anyway. It's just a hassle for the average gamer. I also do not care about future" installments" if there will even be any. If BioWare wants to make their website, fine, but the game itself should have a basic list built in so that all the major plot points of the previous games can be carried in to Inquisition. I doubt whether we killed D or K is going to matter much in the Inquisitor's story. Heck, I doubt Dalish/Werewolves will matter in Inquisition, but it should be easy to have a short list of what you picked and who lived from each. The game's checklist doesn't need an interactive story to see all the differences and "What If" scenarios. I swear, BioWare is going to hang themselves on launch day. Believe it! (talk) 15:19, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I think the OP raised some good points (especially about Origin), but something I think people have forgotten is that this is a free service. You can still play the game without it, and I imagine the experience will be largely the same minus a few character pop-ins or choice lines of dialogue. Look at ME3, everytime there was an "imported" character that died, they were just replaced with a stand-in, like Wreav. But since the Keep is free its impossible for it to remove any value from the game, only add to it. Even if you hate it or decide not to use it, since it costs nothing then you lose nothing.
Secondly save imports are still a relatively new thing, the only other franchises in the game industry (which I am aware of) are the witcher and telltale games that use an import. In fact the witcher2 import only worked for PC, and console players were left in the cold. Skyrim didnt have an import, in fact they purposely went 200 years in the future so as to invalidate every player choice in the previous game, and yet that was a hugely popular game. So cant we wait till Inquisition is released and judge it on its own merits rather than becoming angry about import problems? Bioware is trying something new with the Keep, I say we give it a fair trial before crucifying it. Drake72 (talk) 20:15, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
You need Origin for your initial "did you buy this game" authorization. That's it. So I don't know why you're suddenly flipping out on it. Second, you don't need to the Keep to play the game. You can play with the default state and never use the Keep at all. Third: They're working on different default states to choose from if you do not care to manually make every choice, meaning the process can take ten seconds as opposed to the already way too long ten whole minutes it already takes. Fourth, it's not an interactive story. It isn't the genesis comic from Mass Effect. Fifth, regarding importing details of your hero and worlds, how many times do I have to tell you to not delete your save data? I'm coming as close to breaking NDA as I can here by constantly repeating this in conjuction with who your hero is. 67.61.238.87 (talk) 20:34, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Yeah but that one guy said imports are not going to be an option, not even on PCs. Definitely not on consoles because of copyrights on... whatever, information algorithms? And what exactly does Origin check anyway? How does it know you bought the game? And what's the point? What's the point of it all??? Believe it! (talk) 23:51, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
- As I said in the other forum. Even if there is no direct import feature to plug in your entire save file, that does not mean it can't use parts of your information created through your saves for things like specific information about your characters (hint-hint). Secondly, the authentication with Origin is exactly what I said it is. Did you buy this game or steal it from piratebay? AKA are you allowed to play it or not. It's also how you upload your achievements to your Dragon Age profile on the BSN, which also gets a lot of other data from your saves, like stuff about your characters (hint-hint).
- I'm not a coder or programmer, I know what it does, not how it does it. What's the point of what? What's the point of anti-piracy protocol? You're a smart guy/girl, I'm assuming, and I'm sure I don't have to explain the reasoning for why a business wants to protect its bottom line. What's the point of the Keep? I already said above. You, personally, said you don't care about potential future games or the franchise as a whole down the road, but most of the fans do, and most of the fans outweigh you in the eyes of the developers for their IP and what they do with it.
- If, on the other hand, you're just getting really esoteric on me and asking what the point of existing at all is, well, you should probably go ask yourself that, or at the least a mentor figure you respect of some sort, instead of some guy on the internet. 67.61.238.87 (talk) 00:26, August 13, 2014 (UTC)