Forum:Qunari...they have horns now?

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As some of you may know, David Gaider has revealed that in Dragon Age 2 the Qunari will be, shall we say, different.

Old Qunari, even Sten looks confused at these new Qunari

New Qunari, I think Kratos needs to be told that that one night fling with Hellboy hasn't ended well

Now he has said that not all Qunari have horns and those that don't aren't rejects. Those without horns just have different genetics which mark that person out to be something special in Qunari society i.e A Ben Hassrath (religious police officer). As I don't wish for the comments section on the news article to get overrun I figured this would be a good place to talk about it. What are your thoughts? I for one feel that this new art style is edging further and further away from the DA we all know and love, the Qunari are supposed to be the most advanced race in Thedas, now they look more like a mix between Hellboy and Kratos. --Warden Of The Dales (talk) 23:12, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

I definitely prefer the new to the old. Nothing separated them from humans in the last game except for being slightly taller and darker. Keep in mind, not everyone fully enjoyed the game "[you] all know and love". While it definitely was a good game, it had its bad moments. BioWare is making progress in the game. Max21 (talk | contr) 23:29, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Qunari also had pointy ears. Anyway, saying nothing but the height and skin seperated them from humans is a bit like saying nothing seperated the asari from the humans in Mass Effect except the blue skin and tentacles/horns instead of hair. That may be so but it doesn't necessarily follow that the answer is to add giant bat wings and tattoos over 75% of their body when none of the asari we saw had either of those things before. At first glance these are some pretty big changes in the qunari, and they don't appear to be based on much of anything. Still, it could be good I guess. That one picture (and a reference at Gameinformer to "horned men") really isn't a whole lot to go on for us to see how much the depiction of the qunari has changed.--DarkAger (talk) 00:47, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Blue is different than what the Qunari are. They look like humans. Humans range from white to black to Asian in the real world. The differences in the game were so minor, they all could pass as it. Max21 (talk | contr) 00:52, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. Perhaps a better analogy would be if I said that the mabari in DAO look too similar to the regular dogs. I mean, they're basically just bigger and somewhat more bulldog/mastiff looking, right? [Wynne]They need long, swishy tails. And antlers![/Wynne] Or, if I said that the elves look too similar to humans. They're basically just short humans with pointy ears, aren't they? Especially the city elves. They need long, trailing claws instead of arms! Then they'll look more like the shrieks! My point is, change for its own sake isn't always a good thing, even if it isn't always a bad thing either. I'll reserve judgment on how "improved" the qunari are until the game actually comes out.--DarkAger (talk) 01:09, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm... Just a thought, but does anyone else think how the DA2 Qunari look abit like "Ogres", the horns especially. It does seem abit odd how such a massive change has occured, I know that most races aren't very aware of the Qunari as a whole, but i don't think there has been a single mention in DA:O about the fact that some of them have horns. The new appearance does appear a little too "barbaric" for the Qunari doesn't it? They are always portrayed as stoic warriors, not "cover myself in tatoos" kind of people. As for the suggestion that the horns mark them out for something special, i'm not so sure that sticks with the continuity of the game, doesn't the Qun say that everyone should be judged purely on merit, regardless of genetics? A little contradictory really... X-Cernunnos-X (talk) 23:46, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

It looks like a pretty cosmetic change to publicize as an example of how they're 'improving'. Wake me up when their press releases promise gameplay improvements. DokEnkephalin (talk) 00:17, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Um, yeah, actually they've already said quite a bit about gameplay improvements. You could go out and read about it at Gameinformer and/or the Dragon Age 2 forums at Bioware if you felt like it.--DarkAger (talk) 00:49, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I have read about it. Some of it rates mention. Unlike horns on a qunari. DokEnkephalin (talk) 01:08, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Major suckage. Looks like Kratos clone.

you've got to realise that only some have horns "special" "chosen ones" so others i believe will look similar to those found in DA:O Jabslashthrow (talk) 00:51, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I have to say, I'm completely with Max21 on this one. Sten just looks like a big human. I always wondered why Morrigan referred to him as a "creature" while in the cage in Lothering. Now, they look like creatures. And, who says stoic individuals can't be all tattooed? I don't care what the Qunari look like in Origins, because the new Qunari look COOL.LVTDUDE (talk) 00:58, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well, to me the new qunari looks like the bastard child of a DAO ogre and Kratos, god of war. Anyway, the qunari were described as "giants" in DAO. There's a long tradition of giants in fantasy, and for the most part their claim to fame is just being big. Back in the good old days no one felt the need to jazz them up with horns and tattoos and motorcycles and laser-guided missiles and whatnot, no sir, but these days it's all "cool" this and "EX-TREME" that. But nevermind that. I have one concern with the new qunari, and it isn't even the horns. The horned ones are supposed to be some kind of special envoy and/or religious soldier. But so far this guy looks like some kind of barbarian wrestler instead.--DarkAger (talk) 01:16, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I like the new design. Just because it was never mentioned in DA:O doesn't mean that it wasn't their plan all along. This seems to be something that occurs rarely, especially since there is an emphasis that those born with horns are special while those without are just normal. And the body paint (I don't think it's a tattoo) can represent this special rank that these qunari have.

I think now with the shift in art style and better graphics, the design team will be able to do with what they originally wanted to do. The article that talks about the change mentions that elves and dwarves will have some minor changes too. At least they explained why horns are appearing on quanri now and aren't all "lol qunari have horns, just deal" And it's not that far fetched of an explanation.

And to the person debating that the qunari don't need some physical aspect to separate them from the other species... yeah. They kind of do. The qunari are suppose to be frightening and, as someone mentioned, "creature" like according to Morrigan. They just didn't look that way at all in DA:O. They were bigger, had darker skin and white hair. There was nothing special about them that would them be described as such. Now we know why people are scared of them, and not just because of their reputation as awesome warriors. Hay Julay (talk) 01:28, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I've already had my say above, but let me finish by adding this: A definition of the word "creature." I'll note that in none of the meanings listed is there any mention made of a monstrous or outlandish appearance. A human being can be a "creature," folks. A better argument than that one line by Morrigan would be Sten's codex text and the dialog of a few villagers in Lothering, who describe Sten as fearsome or outlandish. I don't think he needs big honking horns to be seen as such, but hey, that's my opinion, which obviously differs from your own.--DarkAger (talk) 02:00, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I think you and I both know what Morrigan meant she described him as a creature, you're just debating on semantics right now. The fact is qunari are suppose to be, as you said and according to in game lore, "feearsome and outlandish" and how they were designed in DA:O just did not give off that impression. They were different looking, and big, but I don't think I'd avoid one in a crowded room. Hay Julay (talk) 02:50, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Actually I had already stopped arguing about what the qunari should look like. I had more or less stopped caring. What I was trying to say was, "By the way sir, but you appear to be using the word creature incorrectly and I am wondering if you know what it means--DarkAger (talk) 05:40, July 30, 2010 (UTC)."--DarkAger (talk) 05:40, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

My point still stands that you're arguing semantics. You're saying the word creature was used incorrectly, when in fact, it wasn't. There are multiple definitions and connotations that have the word refer to a nonhuman, whether it be a monster or an animal, or something totally different. One of those definitions being in the one you linked earlier. So, no. The word wasn't being used incorrectly, sorry. Hay Julay (talk) 05:57, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yet you used the word creature as if it necessarily connotes a nonhuman appearance, when in fact it doesn't, which means-- wait, now we're arguing about arguing semantics? WHATEVER dude. Just... whatever. Geez.--DarkAger (talk) 14:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

All I know is, I used to watch a show called "Creature Feature" when I was a kid and none of them were humans. Mummies, Vampires, Trolls, Ogres, you name it. Seriously though, I thought Morrigan's use of the word creature implied that he wasn't human. Otherwise, he's just a big guy in a cage, not a representative of a different race or species, from a far off land. LVTDUDE (talk) 03:06, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Morrigan might very well have used that word because Sten wasn't human. I was only making a minor language nerd quibble about the word creature being used incorrectly. I'm sure none of us care anymore, but my problem (and it was a very little one) was that people were using the word "creature" as if it meant "monster" or "living being having a distinctly nonhuman appearance." It does not. Basically, saying the horned qunari "look like creatures" is the same as saying horned qunari "look like living beings." Does it really matter? No. It was just sort of bugging me, and that's why I pointed it out.--DarkAger (talk) 05:43, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

In my opnion, I think the idea of adding horns to some qunari is interesting. As Hay Julay said, "normal" qunari (like Sten) is not so scary, they are only tall. I like the idea of making them more... "Different" from humans, elves, and making them with a more warrior face and frightening. --Rocketai (talk) 01:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

In addition to all the good points made above, i think the Ogre association should have been the first thing you guys noticed. Regarding Darkspawn: Hurlocks = Humans, Genlocks = Dwarves, Shreiks = Elves & *** Ogres = Qunari *** so imho the horns should have been there from day 1. -- Abrasax Drake

Suck suck suck no horn please it is not right. we see tons of qunari without and so it should be. Marcymariehunter (talk) 02:19, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

O.k. not all the qunari will have horns only the select few. It's not like we'll see sten again(that rhymes) sporting his new horns for the spring collection. Also the few that do are religious police which will probably stay on Par Vellon and Seheron. So we'll only see like 2 tops.--Drewk82 (talk) 03:44, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

What I really want to see is a Qunari woman. Hawke will most likely be going to Par Vollen since it was on that interactive map that was released a while back....it'll be interesting. Horned men and horned women? :P With teeth that can bite through metal given time.....I hope we have a female Qunari companion....though....I doubt whether I'd want her to be a love interest....lol. IP no. 59.95.169.10 (talk) 05:10, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

What I'm hoping is that there'll be a romanceble qunari in-party! Can be either male or female... But I'm with fingers crossed for a male qunari! Haha! --Rocketai (talk) 05:56, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I always thought the jump from Qunari to Ogre was more farfetched in comparision to the other types of darkspawn, but this makes the jump make a bit more sense (knowing that the qunari have horns in their genetic material). Also, @LVTDUDE Creature Feature was an awesome show. --CarloGrimaldi (talk) 06:30, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

You've all made some good points, I thought that the Qunari were different enough in my opinion. Yo have to take into account that most Fereldens are idiots, who have probably never gone further then their village. You may see dwarves and elves, and they look relatively human so you can deal with that but a nine foot tall, hulking, ash skinned, violet eyed giant who can destroy an entire farmhold unarmed? That would be pretty different to the guy you meet up with to have drinks. --Warden Of The Dales (talk) 06:53, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

elves have pointed ears, as do shrieks, humans are upright and generally have broader shoulders than waists, so do hurlocks, dwarves are short and stocky, so are genlocks, ogres on the other hand were nothing like the qunari before. yes sten was big, but he wasnt 20 foot tall big, and these horns sort of explain one link between the two species. i approve the horns

Hmm, I just read on GreyWardens.com that we may be reading the quote wrong. According to this person, they think it means that qunari WITHOUT horns are the ones that are the religious warriors and the ones who go off to other countries. Which makes A LOT MORE sense. Hay Julay (talk) 09:04, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oddly enough, I also think they're right. Stranger still, I would agree that this makes the new look for the qunari make more sense. Sten does look a lot more like the kind of person the qunari would send out as an envoy than Horny McShirtless there. Meanwhile the ones with horns are the ones we never saw, because they're all up north painting themselves up and buffing their horns and walking around topless because it is so very hot up there. The latter of which, by the way, is probably also why no one sees qunari women. No not really...--DarkAger (talk) 14:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

If that is the case - that qunari without horns are the "special ones", then it would still make sense that we've not seen any with horns before. The quote also mentions those who abandon the Qun remove their horns. And, aside from Sten, we've only seen Tal'Vashoth in the mercenaries we fight and Armaas. Salvation120 (talk) 11:25, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Add some yellow paint on that new Qunari pic and you get Wolverine! I don't like it. I hate copies. Sten's appearance was unique in DAO. If they wanted to change it.... they could've just make them even more tall and gracious at same time, cause of their superiority. This way... they look like yetis! Pfff..... I wouldn't receive teaching of the Qun from an overgrown yeti. Dunno bout you guys....--Markurion (talk) 13:29, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we've read the quote wrong at all. It says clearly that the horned Qunari are the religious enforcers (which would mean they would stay in Par Vollen itself) and they are the high ranking emissaries to other nations. The point to remember is that Sten wasn't a high ranking emissary, but a soldier sent on a mission. Emissaries don't roam around the land killing creatures. They stay at the royal courts. IP no. 59.95.169.10 (talk) 13:53, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Sten was an infantry platoon commander (at least a lieutenant in the US, higher for Special Forces) sent on a special task by the Arishok in Par'Vollen to answer the question "What is the blight?". He was sent very, very far from the Qunari homeland to complete this special task with the men under his command. Sten made it clear that his task was an important one, "the blight threatens all".

Sten wasn't an emissary, but how high the rank of Sten is in the Qunari military isn't clear (though the rank of commander is often fairly high even when used for enlisted soldiers). The Qunari are said to be a primarily naval super-power so they might use all naval ranks, in the US Navy a Commander is the equivalent of a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army (O-5). If Sten was that high of a rank, and also happened to be a Mustang it would make all the more sense to send him to do that kind of task. So really, if the horn thing was the other way around it could still make sense, at least in the context of Sten. --Aedan Cousland (talk) 14:39, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

“Not all qunari have horns,” says Dragon Age lead writer David Gaider. “Some are born without them, but it has never been considered a defect. Instead the mark is considered special, indicating one who is clearly meant for a special role in their society—as a Ben-Hassrath who enforces religious law or as an envoy to other races. It is also not uncommon for qunari who abandon their beliefs to remove their own horns, for reasons not yet clear.”

Well, there's the quote. In retrospect, David Gaider said that some qunari are born without horns, which might imply that those born hornless are the exception rather than the rule. The quote could be read as, "Some are born without them, but it (i.e., being born without horns) has never been considered a defect," and so on.--DarkAger (talk) 14:54, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

It can kind of be read both ways can't it? I'm goona message him about it, I'll post his reply if I get one. --Aedan Cousland (talk) 14:56, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

the horned ones are probably the special ones, as despite stens high rank in the army of the qunari, he did not seem to be particularly fervent in his beliefs, yes he had them and shared them with the party, but he didnt seem to be particularly concerned with what anyone else believed except to laugh at it --Googlemooglemaximus (talk) 14:44, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Even if he wanted to, I don't think Sten was stupid enough to try and do some of the trademark Qunari violent conversions while alone in Fereldan. One of his Epilogue slides even says "Sten returns to his homeland and is made a General tasked with crushing human resistance in the Qunari lands". --Aedan Cousland (talk) 14:54, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Are the new Qunari like the old Klingons and the new Klingons?

I think that it's kind of a cool improvement. Besides, not previously seeing any Qunari with horns is easily explained. After all, most of the Qunari we saw in DA:O were mercenaries. In the quote, it says that qunari who abandon their beliefs remove their horns themselves. It may even provide an opportunity to learn more about the Qun, which I'm kind of interested in. (On a side note, I'm glad to finally find an online community made up of intelligent people.) --Whale-Five guys! (User:JoePlaytalk:General Dripik|talk]]) 15:30, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

You know what? I think i'm going to love em, as long as Gaider do great storyline like he did with DAO.--Markurion (talk) 17:14, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

The "Tattoos" don't look so much like tattoos to me as they do blood painted on in a particular pattern that then drips away and smears at the edges. Which is pretty cool and all - really awesome actually. But so not 'tattoos'. --Roguemoon

I just don't find them that big a deal. So far they've established the qunari intimidation factor rather well through demeanor and expression, while maintaining a believable, identifiable face. Adding horns seems like a cheap visual shorthand, just in case they can't sufficiently characterize it with good writing and good acting. While this may not signal a decline in the quality of those, it also doesn't fill me with much faith. Too soon to call it jumping the shark, but it does make a conspicuous landmark to point back to later in the case of sequel decay. DokEnkephalin (talk) 23:41, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

---

The horns doesn't make sense. Any being with horns use them to charge at there enemies, like the bull or the Ogre of DA:O, had they given horns to an Orc like race like seen in many fantasy setting it would make sense, but the Qunari are stoic warriors an advanced and very intelligent race, seeing them charge an enemy like an ogre doesn't make sense, and if they don't do that, the horns serve no purpose. If some Qunari had horns these Qunaries would be their equivalent to the dwarves casteless, seeing as having an appendix the race as a whole have long since moved away from.

-rphb- (talk) 10:23, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure horned lizards, frogs, etc., have them merely for decorative (mating) purposes, not for ramming. LVTDUDE (talk) 19:46, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

I think the new quanari are cool and are like the elite in quanari society btw shrieks have the same character model as werewolfs not elves!

__________________________________________________________________________________ I find it amusing that according to lore, the horned Qunari are supposed to be rare within the race, yet in Dragon Age II, every Qunari is a horned one and not once do you see a hornless Qunari. A shame really.

NOTE: horned qunari are not rare but common in qunari society its the ones without horns that are special n rare in qunari society hint y they made sten from DAO without horns since he played a special part in the blight by helping the warden stop it. Just wanted to point it out because a bunch of u guys were saying it the other way around, anyways just wanted to let ya know you guys were saying it wrong.

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It's always nice when an unsigned post does necrophilia on a years-old thread. In any case, the DA2 Qunari are Goatman Clan Warriors from Diablo. Futonrevoltion (talk) 13:48, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I really doubt they planned to make Qunari have horns in Dragon Age: Origins. NO Qunari in Origins has horns, I really doubt the Darkspawn's merchant was ever really special in Qunari society, personally. They don't look the same at all, they're.. striped, their swords are different.. Yeah. They're not even the same creatures.HomelyDrugAddict (talk)

Personally i like the new style gives them more diference between them n the humans like the war paint looks kind of cool, then the horns really liked it because that right there made them a different race all together. So i really approve of the new look even if they look like goat men. Now the change i hated was on the elves really want them to change their look back n do something else that didnt make them look like chubby twigs with big bug eyes.

I don't mind the horns. At least Bio made an effort to explain why none of the Kossith in DA:O had them. Unlike some other retcons in game/TV/movie franchises. Andy the Black (talk) 23:17, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

I just want to know what color Sten will be if we see him again, David said if we ever see him again, he will also look different. Whether than means distorted skin on his forehead, or being grey, I am interested in knowing. Tommyspa (talk) 23:21, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

The new skin colour I DON'T like. Why are they grey? Their still described in game as bronze skined. Andy the Black (talk) 23:27, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

I recall Sten referring to the tal-vashoth as the "grey ones" But I assumed back then they were grey of soul in relation to the Qun, must be literal. Tommyspa (talk) 23:17, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Its funny how it just so happens that all qunari featured in Ferelden (mecenaries and Sten and his brothers) have no horns. Coincidence? Phyn!X (talk) 01:49, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Even the combat animations for DA2's Qunari are near-identical to Diablo's Goatmen. The skin makes them Night Clan. Just like "Anders" impersonating Anders, they're pretending to be Qunari, but aren't very good at it. Futonrevoltion (talk) 01:58, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Can an admin please lock this thread? It's well past is expiration date. DeltaEcho (talk) 03:00, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Well some people still seem to have things to say on the matter. I for instance wasn't posting on the wiki when this thread was new, and the reviver obviously had somthing to say and instead of starting a new thread with the same topic just cast resurrection spell on it. Andy the Black (talk) 03:18, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

If users still have things to say about it, this is the place to do it. I personally am not going to lock a thread just because it's old. King Cousland | Talk  

At the end of the day, the fact is it's just the direction they wanted to take, differentiating between the various races. I like the look of the Qunari, they look totally beasty, spesh the 'Shok. And it suits their overall demeanor, to look a bit demony, as they're pretty hostile people from what we've seen. They stand there all huge and tall and muscly and now to accentuate that intimidating look Bio's added the horns which I think allude to rams or whatever other horned animal you can think of which fight eachother to be top dog. Just makes them look like they're physically built to be aggressive, to fight and to be difficult to communicate with, all of which they are, in fact, it's in the main plot. S13Kuro (talk) 01:53, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I totally agree. What bioware wanted to do was make the different races different races. In DAO, there were humans, tall humans, short humans with pointy ears, and really short humans with broad shoulders. Now we actually have four different races with different bone structures. I like it. 131.215.35.183 (talk) 04:15, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I never had a problem telling one characters race from another in origins, and they all looked much better than their DA2 counterparts...change just for the sake of change never turns out well.

But to the qunari specifically this redesign just doesn't fit them at all...I'm not sure what impression you got of the qunari but the lore describes them as a highly orderly society, not a bestial and aggressive people. They don't even wear armor any more, are they supposed to be like the typical rpg barbarians now? The heavy focus on spear like weapons instead of swords certainly suggest that as well. Where is the advanced society that have invented cannons and explosive powders?

Yes it the plot goes that they end up being aggressors, but that is due to the leader who clearly had a breakdown and the rest could not question his orders.174.45.9.40 (talk) 07:53, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I second that. DA2 Qunari are big bestial brutes, and, like many things in DA2, they seem overdone. THe DAO races may have looked similar, but they _felt_ very distinct, they had different cultures. And somehow, Sten managed to be _very_ impressive even without horns, claws, paint and tendency to exhibitionism. - Not to mention the tiny but significant fact that he had a personality which did not have to rely on the outward looks. Aaah... what does this remind me of? - Yeah, dumbed down. Again. --Ygrain (talk) 08:34, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I like the Kossith re-design, but I do have some gripes. For example, Qunari in the game use spears. According to Sten, a soldier's weapon is his soul, and it is death to discard it, yet we see Qunari flinging them about willy nilly. My other complaint is the lack of armour. As has been said, the Qunari are the most advanced race in Thedas, yet they wear warpaint like savages. Other than that, I think the horns look good (though I didn't like that the Kossith we saw only had black eyes, what happened to violet, red and yellow?) King Cousland | Talk  

Concerning the armour, I guess this is what happens if you let someone do the concept art without explaining them a thing or or two about the way weapons and armour work (see the Fenris thread, after all) - actually, now that I think of it, the higher executive levels might also use a little lecture on medieval stuff, as well as on the effect of traumata inflicted to the upper body. I was _not_ happy about the Dalish armour exposing the whole midriff or the low neckline of female armours in DAO but the Qunari design of things not to wear to battle brought the word idiocy to totally new dimensions. Ygrain (talk) 09:38, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

True enough. The fact that Fenris doesn't wear shoes because (according to the art department) "He feels free and wants to reconnect with his Dalish roots." is astounding. Even Gaider disagreed with this, but I question why he didn't raise the issue? King Cousland | Talk  

That's plain ridiculous - and makes me rather suspicious about the, uhm, chain of command in the DA dev team. Who decides what there? And on what basis? How come that concept art, based on stupid (and irrelevant) reasoning makes it into the game if the lead writer is against? Who approved it, then, Laidlaw? Or does he have so little say in what things are going to look like that the art department makes decisions on their own? --Ygrain (talk) 09:58, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

We barely see Kossith in Origins. The ones running around as mercenaries don't even make sense lore wise as they wouldn't be classified as Qunari but as Vashoth. Apart from those, and the dudes in Sten's dream, Sten is the only one we have to base anything about them off. So I don't really think it was a big deal to go and give the race a bit of extra flavour. The point about the weapon being like the soul to a Qunari soldier, have to remember, Sten didn't even get his til he left for Ferelden, and he's a higher up dude, so all the other ones running around in DA2 with spears haven't earned the 'right' to their own sword. Bla bla bla. In the end, point is I like the direction they went with them, it makes sense to me for them to become a bit more physical in nature, which is demonstrated in the fact that they seem to not be willing to listen to reason. S13Kuro [talk] 12:02, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

The equivalent of half a kilo of pepper in one meal is not exactly what I would call a flavour :-)--Ygrain (talk) 12:34, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I still don't like the new design, although they look more unique they are too over the top. They all now look like tribal shamans and barbarians when thier city and society is supposed to be the most advanced in Thedas! Thier main weapon switch from swords to spears and wearing tribal paint instead of armor even supports that change. I'm all for making races more defined, I'm not crazy about the new elf design but at least the still look like elves per say, if some one plays origins then DA2 Qunari look nothing alike sans the height maybe. MrRexfire (talk) 12:47, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

I'm all in for a redesign, didn't like the DAO look for nonhumans (though dwarves fared better than others). However, as many people have pointed out here, the end result isn't exactly what I wanted either. And it isn't the horns that my questions are aimed at.

The Qunari/Kossith are indeed unreasonably poorly equipped. The Qunari warriors are frequently described as steel-clad in the codex, yet the only ones with a measure of armour are the officers (and Saarebas), and it looks samurai-ish wood/leather/poor quality metal at best, not steel. Even a reasonably small Qunari expedition to retrieve the Tome, which we're dealing with in DA2, should've had a ton of proper ground troops, not just scouts and light infantry.

The whole warrior-sword thingy seems to have undergone a redesign as well. There're the scouts/ashaad that use thrown weapons and don't seem to have any of the bonded-weapon sentiment, and the footmen/karashok with the same spears, but for melee purposes. Now, it makes sense for diversification in weapons, since swords can't really shoot, but they just all use the same weapons in DA2, and it just smacks of lazy/hurried model designing for me. The only guys with swords are the officers and the Arishok, for some reason. Spears are not all that good for every combat situation, it'd make sense for the footmen to have other weapons as well. And the ashaad having no notion of bonded weapons is strange, if the rest of the Qunari warriors do have it. Maybe they're warriors-in-training and become full warriors later, like the space marine scouts of 40k? Still, even if this is a passable explanation, it should be written down in-game somewhere.

So, yeah, I'd really rather see a more well-equipped, developed look for the Qunari/Kossith. Don't forget that they have gunpowder, and by all means should have handheld firearms by the time of the game. They've been routinely using cannons by the time they arrived 300 years pre-game, and should have, at the very, very least, rudimentary firearms this far into gunpowder 'age'. Keeping Dragon Age in medieval stasis despite the background is not the only course of action, and probably the worst one, and besides, the player party isn't supposed to have access to gunpowder (unless Qunari), so no shooting the boomsticks anyway.

The elves are not so bad actually. Better than shorter-humans-with-pointy-ears-and-chins of DAO, that's for sure.

The dwarves aren't bad either. The redesign didn't change very much, and the end result is good.

And armour got distinctively better in DA2, compared to DAO. Less leather tank tops and skirts, more proper, full-body-coverage, solid-looking armour. Though you do start in such stuff, possibly as a homage to the old armour or alluding to it being the 'Fereldan barbarian' look. But then there're the companion armours, with Man Chest Hair United-looking Varric, no-pants Isabela and what-the-carp-is-that-dressed Fenris. And Carver in plainclothes, until he's templar'd/warden'd. And Merrill's unexplained aversion towards footwear. And Aveline's prologue clothing being more blacksmith than warrior gear. Act 1-Carver and Fenris got it worst in terms of clothing. As noted above, the guy who designed Fenris' look had no idea about armour, and Carver is, as I said, wearing something that looks very un-armour-y.

That got way off-topic, dinnit?

- (tl;dr)

So yeah, give Qunari (and all Kossith) better gear and weapons, including firearms. And full body protection for all armours.188.123.248.168 (talk) 13:32, September 17, 2011 (UTC)