- Proposed policy
- Be it a matter of deletion, blocking, or interpretation of existing policy, no single member of the administration or bureaucracy may overturn another administrator's decision. Excepting an undeletion of an item with a clear canonical basis, reversal of an administrative decision will require a genuine good-faith effort to discuss the issue, in a timely manner, with the administrator whose decision is in question followed by a majority decision by available administrators. The format and timing of these discussions may not be engineered to skew a possible vote.
This rule will then be codified in Dragon Age Wiki:Administrative autonomy in precisely these words, no more, no less and enforced in a nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali manner.
- Argument for
- The reasoning for such a rule is mainly to use discussion as a medium for dispute, rather than having a potential wheel war amongst administrators. I don't see this as a problem currently, but I think it is a good policy to have just to maintain a civil environment. I also want to remind you that this does not prevent an administrators actions from being undone; it mainly protects against administrative warring.
- Voting Process
- A decision will be made after a week of discussion and voting, unless it is clear the community will accept the proposal. If a member believes something needs to be changed, they will propose it on this page, and a vote will be held on that specific proposal. After the week is over, the policy will either be adopted or ratified. Adoption is defined as an approved policy with no current votes for amendments. Ratification is defined as an approved policy with open amendment voting; the policy will still be enforced while ratified. After the amendments are adopted or rejected, the administrators will then decide if a final vote is necessary to get a clear community consensus. Administrators may also open a third vote if the community clearly wishes to have one held; however, it is up to the discretion of a majority of active administrators. The format and timing of this process may not be engineered to skew a possible vote.
Max21 (talk | contr) 00:35, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
Votes
To vote, please place either {{Tick|yes}} under support or {{Tick|no}} under oppose. If you oppose, you must provide a reason. If you do not, your vote may be removed. Start each line with # and remember to sign your vote with ~~~~!
Support
as proposer. Max21 (talk | contr) 00:35, July 15, 2010 (UTC)- It's a pragmatic thing to do. If even the administrators quarrel over everything, nothing will get done. I don't like that it makes administrator actions more difficult to undo however. A controversial or obviously bad action would require a lengthy discussion to undo when it would be best to just undo it ASAP. The "timely manner" part of the policy should be changed to specify a hard time limit, like a month or week, at the end of which consensus must be forced.208.102.120.121 (talk) 03:24, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
Oppose
Discussion
I'm just going to go ahead and say this, and I mean this in the most respectful way possible. It seriously looks like you're just trying to increase your administrative powers due to people requesting Loleil's intervention in your decisions (like in the recent Leliana's Song Spoiler Tag issue). It is my interpretation from what I've seen that people desire Loleil to remain as your superior on the wiki. While I doubt it is intentional, you do come off a bit hostile sometimes. I think you're trying to be more or less decisive (an admirable trait in a leader), but that's very easy to misread as controlling. People in the wiki community seem to like a more open system of decision making with the admins acting as arbitrators (the way Loleil mostly seems to handle things). I understand what you're trying to do and your reasons for it, while the ability to make an 'executive decision' is very useful to people in an authoritative position, it can be off-putting to the people affected. Also allowing those decisions to be contested creates it's own series of problems. I myself am not really sure where I stand on your proposal. This ultimately comes down to if people want to increase your authority on the wiki. I think I may be for it, but the proposed method of adjudicating issues with administrative decision seems grueling. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you currently the only admin besides Loleil? That would make administrator only voting kind of pointless, you need at least a tribunal. --Aedan Cousland (talk) 02:57, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, I have been looking to implement this for a long time now, I have just been busy. I would also mention that I pulled this policy directly from Wookieepedia. Also, you must have missed the part where I explicitly state that this does not give any power to administrators; if anything, it removes some. This is the first of many policies I am going to be proposing; most will put me in a bad light, because I am the one proposing them. Also, the "process" was for voting, something both Loleil and myself thought would be good for the wiki. Max21 (talk | contr) 03:09, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
- Perhaps I did misunderstand, it looked to me to provide more initial power in decision making while setting up rules that allow for issues to be contested in an orderly fashion should it be felt necessary. Still, " majority decision by available administrators" implies, and actually require more than two. Looking over the Wookiepedia definitions, it would indeed seem that this requires more admins, and various ranked ones at that. If their is an established hiearchy of admins on the site besides you and Loliel I am unaware of it. If not one would need to be created, undoubtedly with you and Loleil at the top, --Aedan Cousland (talk) 03:20, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, any of the conflicts between Loleil and myself have been resolved fairly quickly. The policy would just mean that if Loleil blocks someone, I can't just unblock them. It forces discussion to be had; and even though administrators are administrators, everyone has his moments. This proposal isn't being put forth because of some type of problem now; I am just digging the well before we start getting thirsty. Max21 (talk | contr) 03:28, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
- Special:ListUsers/sysop lists the admins. There really is no hierarchy within the administrative groups. I am not sure you have ever seen two admins go at it before. This page on Wikipedia is more detailed. Perhaps it could be expanded to include the community as an entity. The community could undo administrator actions if necessary, but administrators cannot go against consensus of the community. An uninvolved administrator would need to hold the community accountable in the situation, but all in all, it could work. Max21 (talk | contr) 03:39, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
- Perhaps I did misunderstand, it looked to me to provide more initial power in decision making while setting up rules that allow for issues to be contested in an orderly fashion should it be felt necessary. Still, " majority decision by available administrators" implies, and actually require more than two. Looking over the Wookiepedia definitions, it would indeed seem that this requires more admins, and various ranked ones at that. If their is an established hiearchy of admins on the site besides you and Loliel I am unaware of it. If not one would need to be created, undoubtedly with you and Loleil at the top, --Aedan Cousland (talk) 03:20, July 15, 2010 (UTC)