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Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionOld Gods, Male or Female?
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-Spoilers ahead- Something that has me really confused is the gender of the Old Gods. Supposedly only females become the winged beasts that are Dragon's while males become Drakes.

Urthemiel, the Archdemon that is killed in the fifth blight is noted as Male, backed up furthermore with the fact that when Morrigan's ritual is completed and a child conceived the child is also male.

So what's going on? Are the Old Gods a mixture of male and female dragons? If so how come only the Old Gods are the only male Dragons? [I say they're the only Male Dragon's as the males are noted as Drakes, not Dragons.]

Stark Helsing (talk) 18:35, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

This is a topic that has come up at least three times since Origins was released. The simplest answers seems to be that (A)the dragons that become Archdemons are a different species, where the drakes are able to develop wings or (B)In personifying the Old Gods, the Tevinter attached male pronouns to large high dragons. If (A) is the case, it's an example of sexual dimorphism in at least one species of dragon (Sexual dimorphism is basically the visual cues between male and female members of a species). For example, there are several birds of prey where the female is larger than the male; she carries the eggs, so a larger body is needed, while the male is smaller, needing less food and it goes on.

We know high dragons have produced offspring in the game, but have we ever seen the offspring of an archdemon? No, we haven't. We don't know if they're like anacondas, giving birth to live young, hence there is no need for any real difference between male or female, or are they are they like cobras, laying eggs?

Its sometimes makes it easier to look at the dragons like other species, such as snakes - Constrictors and venomous snakes are both somewhat different animals, but if you go back far enough, you find the ancestor they evolved from. The Archdemon dragons are possibly the root species of the more common dragons in Thedas. --Madasamadthing (talk) 21:00, June 27, 2013 (UTC)


I think that the Old Gods only take the form of dragons because of the conotation between dragons and power, secondly once an Old God is tainted with the blight, then perhaps they become locked in whatever form they have (plus, even if they weren't trapped in that form it does provide somthing which darkspawn can rally to). Whereas the Old Gods a fully sapient (as in they are capable of strategy and complex communication) normal drakes and high dragons don't seem to be capable of these things. For example, High Dragons are merely extremely intelligent predators (since a mage with the abilty to control animals is capable of enthralling high dragons). The Old Gods on the other hand have been shown to be able to reach out into the Fade to comminicate with Sominiari, and even to bestow gifts towards those who sacrifice correctly at their alters (as shown in the Legacy dlc if Hawke sacrifices on the Alter of Dumat, he senses this and bestows gifts to Hawke, whereas if you defile the alter Dumat the old god is capable of summoning demons to punish the transgressor). Now to the details on whether the Old Gods are male or female: Morrigan states up front that the child she would bear would be a son (later confirmed in Which Hunt if she did have a child. A second theory could be that the Old Gods have no inherent gender and as such are hermaphroditic (like angels), but based upon the fact that the Old Gods should have enough power to take whichever form they please (and assuming that they really are actual dieties) then they could realistically take the form of the opposite sex if they so pleased.--Draconi Nascentum Imperatore (talk) 22:17, June 27, 2013 (UTC)

Just a minor quibble. The altar of Dumat is not actually Dumat rewarding you, most likely. The in-game literature states that the Old Gods went silent to their followers before the first blight. It seems much more reasonable to suspect that the altar is simply a trick by some mage: You enchant an altar to reveal some gift if you follow the right steps, and it attacks you with demons if you don't. We see similar magical tricks in the ancient temple in the Brecillian forest (the door guarding the elven tomb), as well as the ancient Avvar pedestal underneath Vigil's keep. In a world full of mages, isn't this a great way to convince the lowfolk that the gods are real? You have them follow some ritual, and BOOM, a reward! And no mages around to have done it - it must have been gods! Also, you fell for it. 108.5.157.70 (talk) 08:30, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Most of Old Gods are noted as being male in the Codex entries and stuff and there was a developer post about seasonal holidays in Thesda or something that made mention of Old Gods and one of them was said to be female, either Razikale or Zazikale, I can't remember which. What we do know is that if the Old Gods and Archdemons are very unique dragons and what sets the Old Gods apart from other High Dragons could be the fact that they're male? (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 17:23, June 28, 2013 (UTC))

Just done a little sleuthing and found this [1]. Now this information already exists on the wiki but this is an official developer blog so I think we can take it as fact. Three of the Old Gods in this post are referred to as "Old Gods" whilst Zazikale is referred to as "Old Goddess". So I think it may be safe to assume that the Old Gods are a mix of male and female. (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 17:37, June 28, 2013 (UTC))

All the Old Gods are Male, except Zazikel and Razikale.

  • Dumat - God of silence (Reference to Dumah, angel of silence in Jewish mythology)
  • Zazikel - Goddess of chaos (Comes from Zadkiel, angel of mercy)
  • Toth - God of fire (Egyptian god of the moon)
  • Adoral - God of chains (From Adonael, angel of the misguided and victorious)
  • Urthemiel - God of Beauty (Greeks had Aphrodite, Romans had Venus, Norse had Idunna, Slavs had Zaria, Irish had Emer, the Tevinters had Urthemiel and yes it's a dude)
  • Razikale - Goddess of mystery (Slovenian version of the name Rachel, which holds lots of Biblical weight, as her children lead the major tribes of Israel paving the way for Christ.)
  • Lusacan - God of night (Greeks had Erebus and Nyx, Slavs had Zorya, Romans had Nox, Norse had Nótt, Hindus had Ratri, and the Tevinters had Lusacan)

Μάραυδερ ΟΘʹ FoC cover I can make the Black Sun look like a Swoop Gang. 18:15, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Razikale is referred to as "he", "god of mysteries" and "Old God of Mystery" in Origins. – mostlyautumntalkcontribs • 18:23, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

If Zazikel is indeed the only female Old God doesn't that seem rather suspicious? What if Flemeth is Zazikel? The Goddess of Chaos and Freedom? Change is supposed to be the most chaotic of things after all. Pretty sure no one can argue with me here about how everyone is barking about change, freedom, change, change and more freedom.

Of course if Razikale is a she, then so be it... But that Old God has yet to be awakened. Stark Helsing (talk) 21:31, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

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