Forum:OGB/Morrigan's child's Possible Involvement in DA:I - Optional Companion?

Forums: Index > Game DiscussionOGB/Morrigan's child's Possible Involvement in DA:I - Optional Companion?

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If you haven't completed Origins and Witch Hunt, then this post contains spoilers.

I think this would make the most sense to make the OGB, or even just Morrigan's child, a significant part of DA:I while still being optional. After all, many of the companions in Origins and II are like that. Shale, Zevran, Wynne, Leliana, Sebastian, Fenris, Isabela - and that's only about half of the list. Having any of them as a companion is optional, yet we all know each one of them has a great amount of importance to the games.

So when it comes to Morrigan's child, it would be quite simple. We know that it's a he, and chances are very good that he would be a mage. So there would be three scenarios:

1) If a male Warden didn't romance Morrigan and the Dark Ritual wasn't performed, then he doesn't exist - you're down an optional companion in DA:I.

2) If a male Warden did romance Morrigan but the Dark Ritual wasn't performed, then he does exist, without the Old God's soul.

3) If the Dark Ritual was performed, regardless of a romance with Morrigan, he exists with the Old God's soul.

Whether Morrigan's child has the Old God's soul or not would simply have some effect on his own story/companion quests and interactions. Whether he exists or not is just as relevant as the other companions - it makes the most sense that he would be implemented this way. Add the dynamic that he could possibly be the heir to the throne of Ferelden, and we could have a possible mage companion possibly of royal birth, which would fit quite nicely into the taking control of regions aspect of DA:I. If he doesn't exist at all then maybe taking control of Ferelden/Denerim, if possible, would have to simply be done a different way?

I think this would really be the best way for BioWare to work with the choice of the OGB's existence. By having him an optional companion, having Urthemiel's soul a variable, it's just as much work to make him as over 50% of the companions we've already had. Would it make a lot of people happy overall, if this is what they do?

What do you think? Personally I hope that this is what they do, because it's a more rewarding and stable option that allows for the OGB to live up to his potential while still leaving the Dark Ritual a flexible choice.

P.S. Do we have any idea what the time gap between II and Inquisition is? At the end of II, if he exists he would be 10 years of age. Abélath (talk) 14:00, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

It's not a far gap, but i dont think they have told yet.---Lazare326 (talk)>

In DAI Morrigan's son is an early teen. The 5th blight (DAO) ends in Dragon 9:31 and the M-T war begins in Dragon 9:40 (Cassandra speaks with Varric in Hawkes Estate). The child as an optional companion isn't likely unless EA agrees for a kid companion. I think a good kid companion would be a rogue, who has special sneaking skills mastered during hard life on streets rather than overpowered untrained mage.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 14:32, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

I wonder if EA would agree to that or not. Seeing as we can kill Connor in Origins, which would be about as serious an issue, they may. It may be the case that Morrigan knows some form of magic to increase the aging of her son, if he is born, as a way to make him less vulnerable to Flemeth. And that's a point I agree with you on. A warrior or rogue with a soul of an Old God would be quite a bit more interesting than a mage. Presumably Flemeth would want the child to be a mage, so would Morrigan do something to ensure otherwise, as a preventative measure against Flemeth possessing him? In the case of him being a mage, I don't think he would be untrained. Morrigan would most likely train him very well in magic. As for his power, the Old God's soul is that of the Dragon of Beauty, and Urthemiel as the Archdemon wasn't overpowered. So hopefully they'd get the balance right in that case. Special sneaking skills would be a great ability no matter what he is. I imagine the 10 years Morrigan has raised him being very tough. That is a long time to hide from Flemeth! How they've survived will be so interesting to see. Abélath (talk) 15:21, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Accelerating body aging won't help in gaining experience. Morrigan's kid is an early teen in DAI, when does he has time to be trained to fight? Even if he was trained since he was a todler, he wouldn't be ready to fight in early 40s of age of Dragon.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 15:34, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Up to the point of Witch Hunt Morrigan has gained much knowledge in both Flemeth's magic as well as Dalish magic. If we were never told about the Dark Ritual, we wouldn't know it possible, so who is to say what is possible beyond the Eluvian? Consider that Morrigan leaves the child alone in the Eluvian. Also, the Warden may choose to stab her and push her into the Eluvian. How does she survive from such a wound? We know that she does. And then there's the book she left for the Warden. She simply refers to it as a "gift". Who knows what Morrigan has up her sleeve? We have never seen the child. For all we know, when the Warden goes in to meet his son, he is not going in to see the baby he expects at all. As Lazare326 pointed out below, the child could be a prodigy. Abélath (talk) 16:36, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Regardless of which, the OGB, is not a necessity for many sadly. Unless they find a loophole, but still I think Morrigan may make references to it in DAI. I hope she does about the Warden too. ---Lazare326 (talk)>

That's why I thought a companion, because many of them aren't a necessity also. I really hope we get clarification on it all too. Abélath (talk) 16:36, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Just to chuck it out there, this OGB for all we know is not a normal child, thus cannot be seen in the light as a normal human being, regardless of what Morrigan says. Yeah it may look normal in all that sense, but the thing is it could be a prodigy in magic or what not, or a prodigy in literally knowledge, even in real life some child prodigies know at the age of 3 what most adults dont know at the age of 40. I think the OGB would be this marvellous prodigy, but thats my own opinion. ---Lazare326 (talk)>

That's very plausible, I like that idea. Abélath (talk) 16:36, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

If the OGB exists he will be a part of the game, but probably not a significant one in terms of screentime and interaction. But as Lazare pointed to, what makes us think this child will actually be a "child"? Or even a Human for that matter? The age of the potential OGB is probably the least of my questions. And being a companion seems an impossibility to me. That would be like having Flemeth as a companion...every fight would be over in 3 seconds. He IS a God after all. And he is no longer imprisoned...which is, in my mind, the entire purpose of the ritual Flemeth created. Freedom. The Grey Unknown (talk) 16:13, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Overpowered companions were never good.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 16:17, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

The OGB wouldn't necessarily be overpowered at all. After all, Urthemiel wasn't invincible. If the OGB was a companion, they'd make sure that he isn't overpowered. I'm sure they'd find the right balance. Abélath (talk) 16:37, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Urthemiel was invincible to every non-warden, because unless his killer is after joining, archdemon goes to any darkspawn and reincarnates. This makes him invincible. That's why wardens are needed. Riordan said that if skills were enough to slay archdemon, then just warriors would by needed and wardens aren't just warriors thanks to the joining.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 16:41, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

That is due to the taint. The OGB is free from the taint. So Wardens aren't the only ones who could kill the OGB. Abélath (talk) 16:54, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

I was talking about archdemon, not old god baby.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 16:56, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

My point was that the Old God Urthemiel was not overpowered or invincible in the form of a tainted Archdemon. Yes only Wardens could defeat it, but it still had a weakness and was able to be defeated. Going by this, the OGB, being untainted, would not be invincible to anyone, and seeing as Urthemiel was not overpowered, the OGB would not be overpowered, either. Abélath (talk) 17:11, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Exactly what was said by Grey is my thoughts on the whole topic, it couldn't be more true in that fact. The thing is, this OGB is not and should not in any form be compared to that of any race in Thedas. Its incomparable in that matter; for all we know the OGB may be more than anything we have witnessed. Is the OGB evil? In that matter I will compared him to beings in thedas in that matter, he will have to freewill to be or not, as well as morrigan's socialisation of him. Regardless of that matter, having the essence does not make him evil, and as Grey Unknown pointed out, its pretty evident that, he is a god in that matter. He has the soul of a god, and it kinda makes him one. A companion? No way...but a pivotal NPC in future games, its to be seen. Unless Bioware find a massive loophole for those who didn't choose that path. I bet they regret the choice of it though in some capacity. ---Lazare326 (talk)>

But whose to say this OGB is invincible due to the lack of knowledge we have on him or "it" for a matter of fact. Just because he has the soul, doesn't make him "the" definitive archdemon.---Lazare326 (talk)>

A very good point. The OGB may or may not be invincible. Due to Urthemiel not being invincible, I would say probably not. Due to the OGB not having the taint, not only Wardens would be able to kill him. Abélath (talk) 16:54, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Exactly, the Taint made him pretty hard and not the whole idea of being the old god although it played a strong part. Thus as Abelath said, its free of the "taint" and thus again cannot be compared inheritantley to the darkspawn or the Archdemon. You could say that the Old God has been set free now, or more in its original form.---Lazare326 (talk)>

"Urthemiel was invincible to every non-warden, because unless his killer is after joining, archdemon goes to any darkspawn and reincarnates. This makes him invincible. That's why wardens are needed. Riordan said that if skills were enough to slay archdemon, then just warriors would by needed and wardens aren't just warriors thanks to the joining" - I think you put it after someone claiming its not invincible gave the impression you were talking about the old god baby, as you just brought the archdemon into the conversation spontaneously, without others focussing on it. ---Lazare326 (talk)>

Plus you mentioned "overpowered companions are never good" FDS, and you got answered back on why the OGB won't be overpowered and you brought out the Archdemon, so its clear to us that we thought you were on about the OGB---Lazare326 (talk)>

Yes, I was using Urthemiel's power as the Archdemon as a template as a measure of the OGB's own. Remove the taint from an already defeatable Urthemiel, and you get a good estimate that the OGB would not be invincible or overpowered. Abélath (talk) 17:11, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Like I said before, this OGB is probably gonna end up being a prodigy of the sorts, in some field or another. Will Morrigan be strict with it? Nope, why? Because she knows how that feels like with Flemeth, although she has guidelines for him probably, it won't be as restricting, I think too many people overestimate Morrigan's cynicism and underestimate her loving nature, which she'd probably show her child. Its a matter of time before the child walks amongst men. ---Lazare326 (talk)>

I agree completely, very well said. (Ah I can't wait for Inquisition! :D) Abélath (talk) 17:33, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

I'd actually think him to be more a demigod, in the manner of heroes from Greek myth; their souls, too, are immortal, but they are not as powerful as their divine parent, since they have a mortal form from their human parent. As for whether he'd be evil: unclear, but Morrigan isn't exactly the nicest person, nor does she have a good precedent for what a good mother should be either. EzzyD (talk) 17:41, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

The thing is no body is the same after they've had a child. And Morrigan although before birth may look as though she is destined to be a bad mother, I think quite the contrary, although she is not inheritantley good, she isn't purely evil too. Which is common with a lot of people, and I think a baby would kinda change her. As with your demigod point, yeah that makes more sense, but the thing is demigod means : "a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.", that is not a description of the OGB, unless Morrigan is a goddess. What I'm trying to say is he has the exact soul of Urthemial and thus in retrospective can be seen as fully god. But we dont know too much of him to guess otherwise, its not like he has lesser divine status as he has the full soul, although, he may have less powers. But yeah he can be seen as somewhat of a demigod or a half-god.---Lazare326 (talk)>

Thinking of him as a demigod is an excellent way to look at it, because indeed while the OGB is Urthemiel, he is being born in a human form, which isn't his original form, so he would probably be less powerful than before. As for him being evil and Morrigan's raising of him, you can ask Morrigan that and she states this: "Allow me to say that what I seek is the essence of the Old God that once was and not the dark forces that corrupted it. Some things are worth preserving in this world. Make of that what you will. The child will represent freedom for an ancient power, a chance to be reborn apart from the taint. Is that not reason enough to do it? I will raise the child apart from the rest of society, and teach it to respect that from which it came." It looks to me like he won't be evil and she'll raise him well. Abélath (talk) 19:14, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

There isn't a third option. If a Grey Warden had sex with Morrigan then the baby absorbs the Old God's soul, regardless if the Dark Ritual has taken place or not (the latter being possible only with The Warden of course through romance). 18:06, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Nope, there are three options. If the Dark Ritual wasn't performed and Morrigan was romanced then she becomes pregnant naturally with a normal baby. She never casts the spell/performs the ritual, thus the Old God's soul is not drawn to the baby. There's evidence for this. If a male Warden romances Morrigan and refuses to do the ritual, she will leave. Morrigan will be pregnant and the Warden who will kill the Archdemon will die, showing that the soul entered him and was destroyed. Also, at the end of Witch Hunt if the Warden that romanced Morrigan and didn't do the ritual decides to go through the Eluvian with her, she will ask him if he's ready to meet his son. Shocked that he is a father when he didn't do the ritual, she'll tell him "Not all children are born of magic.", so they've had a normal child. Abélath (talk) 19:14, February 2, 2014 (UTC)

Probably use him as a focus character in the next game since this one's more about demons at this point maybe that's why the warden s couldn't help in 2 they were chasing Morgan for the baby I remember watching the show angel and he lost his baby son after a few months he came back as an adult because he was raised in an alternate realm fighting demons time was way different they could say the same about the eluvian he could be an arcane warrior Morgan's magik wardens battle skills and fighting style ahhh maybe has a way to control D spawn or the talking one's follow him Star Metal Knight (talk) 19:31, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with the point of the child being too young to be a party member. Also for those who didn't do the ritual in the prior game to suddenly miss out on such a potentially good party member would be a real punch in the face. Perhaps the next game/piece of media will have them play a bigger role... I'd like to see the Old God Baby team up with the "superman" baby (the one found with the star metal) and together take over antiva.... but thats just me... Warden Mage: Ferris (talk) 19:46, February 3, 2014 (UTC)

The OGB reminds me of the Bhaalspawn. He/She can ascend to godhood in time. In DAI the child is innocent, the OGB is in pre-teens.I think the child is somewhere in Orlais.112.200.25.190 (talk) 10:46, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

It could always be retconned that the Eluvian allows travel through time as well as space, and we don't even know where Morrigan's Eluvian leads to, so the amount of time Morrigan and the child spent "outside" of Thedas (and/or "outside" of time) is indeterminate. So the child could be any age. Here I am, doing Bioware's homework... -- Marvin Arnold (talk) 11:31, March 16, 2014 (UTC)