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Just say your opinion. Maric had many lovers of human and elven race. He made his children suffer because of this. There is no reason to like him excluding Ferelden freedom. Political hero, but a social bastard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:59, April 24, 2012

Here, here. I agree, regardless of what he did to help his country; his family should've come first. Being a hero or even just a nice guy doesn't excuse the kind of stuff he did. I'm not saying he wasn't nice, alright, (so all you Stolen Throne/ Calling lovers can shut it) but even heroes can be complete sons of b**ches. Just sayin' EzzyD (talk) 19:46, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Clearly these are opinions of those who haven't read the books. Read the books, educate yourselves in that knowledge and then come back with an opinion that actually has thought, knowledge, and reason instead of baseless opinion based off of ignorance.--Vincent Cousland (talk) 20:09, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Vincent, the top of this forum clearly states to voice your opinion. I voiced mine, that's all. Cheers EzzyD (talk) 20:13, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

@EzzyD: The only women that we know of that he had interactions with other than Rowan were Katriel and Fiona. At least, they are the only canonical ones. As for the speculation concerning Alistair's birth; well there are other threads for that. For all we REALLY know is that Katriel was his lover during the rebellion, he killed her in cold blood. Then he married Rowan after the rebellion and had Cailan. Rowan then died and nearly two years later, he met Fiona where they eventually made love in the Deep Roads. She ended up having a baby boy who may or may not have been Alistair. So techinically he only cheated once, therefore discreditng your statement.--Sjelen Kain (talk) 20:51, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Okay then, so now we've established that my opinion is worthless then? Alright, if my opinion doesn't matter then I'm sure there's no harm in my saying what I'm going to say, no? His (Maric's) responsibility is to his family; ALL of his family. He knew that he had a son other than Cailan (according to the novel The Calling) yet still refused to raise him. It's simply my view that he phylandered, had a son and then didn't do his duty of raising that child. That's all I'm going to say. EzzyD (talk) 20:58, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Actually I *did* read the books and completely failed to see the appeal of Maric as a character. While the books do harp on and on about his great charisma, leadership qualities, and general "nice guy" creds, his actual behavior failed to make that description ring true for me. Since for me it is a character's actions that matter, and not the author's fanboying over the character through various mouthpieces, I didn't like him. He's basically a mildly altered version of Alistair, and annoyed me just as much. Speaking of Alistair, far more so than Katriel and by extension Rowan, his treatment of his son just pissed me off. Yes, keeping potential competition for the throne safely tucked away, preferably in the Chantry, is a normal thing to do (see Sebastian). But a stable boy? Really? Kestrella (talk) 20:59, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

@EzzyD: Just because I presented facts that goes against your thoughts of Maric doesn't mean that you're opinion is worthless. Please don't put words in my mouth. And with not raising the illegitimate son, Fiona told him that she wanted her son to have a normal life, not one of royalty, not one of slavery. Just a normal life. Then again, that didn't end too well did it? I like Maric, but I do agree with you on some points. Maric should have raised his illegitimate son, he should have been a better father to Cailan. --Sjelen Kain (talk) 21:03, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Well, being from country whos greatest medieval king was just like Maric, I'd say i think hes awesome. Ofc, both Maric and my medieval king fucked up their families. Guess you can't go around creating bastards and take care of all of them AND the kingdom as well. Or maybe the latter caused the prior. Who knows.

All I know is that they both were great leaders and good men. Cheating was common back in those times. The fact that he cheated his wife doesn't mean he was an asshole. He just had a flaw. I say better to blow his steam by sleeping with women than by torturing prisoners or worse.So what, he broke a few women hearts. Better than to break their legs. Nobody's perfect. It's the little things that count.--Markurion (talk) 21:22, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Nice guys can have flaws and bad guys can have virtues. Maric may seem to be a charming and likable leader, but that doesn't exclude him from ALSO being an incorrigible lout. "People are not simple." Son Goharotto (talk) 21:27, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

Maric may or may not have been a womaniser, but I just don't like the guy. Not only is his penchant for elven females a tad creepy, having sex in the middle of Deep Roads while others are sleeping is just disrespectful in my mind. If he had the energy to spend in procreation, perhaps he could have... oh, I don't know... STOOD GUARD.

He seems to be the spearhead type, the kind that looks pretty as a king, but Loghain was the dude who took back Ferelden from Orlais, not Maric. Loghain probably could have found another spearhead so that he could be the mastermind, but Maric would not have been able to do anything but flounder without Loghain. Makes me wonder why Maric then has the temerity to sneak out from the back door when Loghain's concerned for safety. Is this some trend amongst Fereldan kings, to sneak out the back door and go have adventure, never mind that being killed in the back alley of Antiva/Rivain/what have you would plunge the country into war? How irresponsible. -Gabriellesig 21:33, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

"spearhead type?" In the womanizer thread...LOL....dying here on that one. Made an otherwise crappy day, bearable. Thanks... The Grey Unknown (talk) 22:14, April 24, 2012 (UTC)
LOL, no problem, always glad to help. But methinks you give Maric's endowment a bit too much credit... :P -Gabriellesig 22:19, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why Maric is under fire for boning girls. As far as I can tell, he was never unfaithful to anyone, unless you consider sleeping with Fiona unfaithful. As for Alistair, if you remember, Maric was up and ready to acknowledge him and raise him as a second son. It was only because Loghain convinced him otherwise that he didn't. As for winning the war, Loghain was certainly the brains by the operation, but he couldn't have won without Maric. Maric was a symbol to rally behind, and was charismatic enough to unite the disparate elements of Ferelden into a rebellion. While I like Loghain, his style of leadership would not have won him any friends. Further, I honestly don't understand why you're all harping on Maric for how he dealt with his family. Many political leaders had shit family lives. MLK jr. is widely considered a great man, but he got a butt-ton of tail while he was out campaigning for equality. The fact that Maric made mistakes simply makes him human, not a social bastard. Rathian Warrior (talk) 00:21, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Don't care if he boned the entire alienage as long as they were willing, but I'd be pissed if I just came out of a battle, dead tired, had to stand watch while Maric diddled someone. "Yo, king boy, why don't you stand watch? I can really use a NAP." -Gabriellesig 00:25, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Maric never raped anyone. And Loghain was boning Rowan at the same time Maric and Fiona were getting it on. Rathian Warrior (talk) 00:28, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

You might want to rephrase that one. Fiona was in the Calling. Rowan was dead at the time. (Unless you're referring to the Fade dream).--Madasamadthing (talk) 00:57, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
Possibly he just mixed up Katriel and Fiona, which is when Loghain and Rowan were hooking up at the same time Katriel and Maric were. Tommyspa (talk) 01:22, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
How did this conversation turn into a discussion about rape? Baffling. -Gabriellesig 01:26, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
Didn't Goldanna accuse Maric of raping her mother or something relevant. Tommyspa (talk) 01:32, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry, mixed up Fiona and Katriel. And I saw no problem with either, just to clarify. As for how it turned to rape: " Don't care if he boned the entire alienage as long as they were willing" Not so baffling really Rathian Warrior (talk) 01:57, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

I never meant that line to mean rape, Rathian. Just because someone says "I don't care if you shag Jane as long as she's willing, Joe" doesn't mean Jane is getting raped by Joe. -Gabriellesig 02:18, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
You can't really say "as long as she's willing" and it not imply unwilling sex which sorta is rape, poor judgment... tsk tsk. Tommyspa (talk) 03:02, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, you can. Caveat does not imply anything, it's a caveat. "You can eat the biscuits, as long as you don't eat all of them" does not mean the kid will eat all the biscuits. -Gabriellesig 03:09, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
Difference being that as long as she is willing is an actual phrase used by people exclusively referring to rape. The way it is used in common speech trumps a technical definition when talking to actual people in a casual setting. Tommyspa (talk) 03:17, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, everybody, stop talking about raping. Somebody's gonna lock this tread soon, lol.--Markurion (talk) 02:30, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

To me it seems that Maric can't really be considered a "womanizer", since we don't see him cheating (with the exception of one instance explained by Sjelen Kain above) or being with women just for sex. As for him being a bad father, one can make a case for that, looking at Cailin and Alistair, but some people just aren't cut out to be good parents, for a variety of reasons, though for Maric those reasons are as much political as they are his personal flaws (at least in regards to Alistair/whatever other bastard he might or might not have fathered). Does any of this make him a bad person? Not in my opinion. You can't expect anyone to be some kind of perfect moral paragon, no matter what great deeds they accomplish or how charismatic/skilled they are (I personally don't see him as being very charismatic or a great leader, just like I don't with Alistair, but that's beside the point). Everyone has flaws, some worse than others. Maric's, to me, don't really disqualify him as a "good guy" to me. --UrLeingod (talk) 03:29, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Given the way Maric was portrayed in the books, I don't think he falls into the category of womanizer. However, I think he is a clear example of bad writing. For some reason, Gaider decided to make him very much like Alistair, and it simply doesn't work. I found Alistair a psychologically plausible character because his sheltered upbringing, with virtually no power over his own life, could easily produce a submissive type unsure of himself and hiding behid "a veil of jocularity". With Maric, though, the formula of an unsure, incompetent teen doesn't work. On the very contrary, I believe that one born into the life of a rebel, constantly on the run, would be mature beyond his years and not develop the typical teenage issues, because there would be neither time nor space for that. While Alistair had no-one, Maric had a loving mother, and as the only future hope of the dynasty, he would grow up in the company of the best men Moira's side could offer, from whom he would learn and by whom he would be shaped.

What's worse, nowhere in the novels can be seen his development into the awesome Maric the Saviour. He does become more mature, and able to cope with his duties, but nowhere next to his supposed heroicness. An example of a totally screwed writing in this respect is his first public performance before the nobles whom he totally fails to convince and Loghain has to save the day. That's plain wrong storytelling - this should have been the moment when his natural brilliance and charisma stood out, or else he'd never be able to gather and maintain the support. Another such moment is leaving the decisive battle solely in Loghain's hands while Maric goes to perform his personal vendetta - wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to start. All in all, having read the books, I totally don't get it why everyone is supposed to be so smitten with Maric and why Loghain respects him so much.

- To give Gaider at least one credit, Loghain IS Loghain, and that very much so. It would really be a shame if Gaider couldn't write well the character he claims to like best, though I sure don't understand what's there to love about Loghain. Interesting, yes, but definitely not likeable. --Ygrain (talk) 05:59, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

My feelings exactly. I mean, my city elf could get people on her side more easily than Maric. 'That's just plain wrong. And I never understood Loghain's respect for him either, did Gaider even try to properly explain that in any of the books? Other characters fawning over Maric can be written off as a lack of perspective on the author's part (*I* like this character, obviously everyone else does too), but Gaider did a pretty decent job with Loghain overall. The discrepancy between Loghain's flagrant refusal to show respect to someone who hasn't earned it followed by him willingly bowing to Maric felt really jarring. Kestrella (talk) 18:03, April 25, 2012 (UTC)
Thank you! I don't mind Maric's character. I don't see him as a womanizer, and I don't think he was wrong to let Alistair (if he was Fiona's child) go- since that was what his mother wanted for him- and she had pretty damn good reasons. However I do think he was a pretty terrible father to Cailan, at least during his younger years, and I never saw him become the big damn hero that history paints him as. That last part doesn't bother me though, history often distorts reality especially when looking at "heroes" (which is why Christopher Columbus was considered a heroic figure in America for so long, even though he was a huge tool). But I never understood why Loghain had so much respect for him!--Liam Sionnach (talk) 18:43, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

In reply to the various things mentioned above, I think most people in the series liked Maric because he fought for their freedom and because he was a super badass warrior who was highly skilled. He also descended from Calanhad. That's all the reasons they need to try and cover up his bad points. About him being a womanizer and cheater, I'm not clear on the timeline of events, but DA:O says he cheated on Rowan with some maid, and if Fiona came after that while Rowan was still alive then that makes two times he cheated on her. Unless the maid thing was just a cover story for doing it with an elven woman. But according to DA:O Rowan was alive when Alistair was a child. Loghain says Maric was ready to recognize Alistair (the right thing to do), but was convinced not to by Loghain and Eamon because they thought it would humiliate the Therin bloodline and reduce Rowan to a concubine. About Loghain and why anyone could like him, yes he committed a terrible atrocity, but given the chance he will redeem himself and volunteer to slay the archdemon and sacrifice himself for the good of his country and to help make up for all the wrong that he knows he had done. Believe it! (talk) 18:52, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Let's not have another "who likes Loghain" debate. That's for an entirely different thread. As for Maric, depending on how you interpret the information you are given, he could have cheated on Rowan once, or never. What is certain is that Fiona happened after Rowan was dead, because she was dead by the events of the Calling, and Katriel was not cheating on Rowan because Maric and Rowan weren't "together" at that point (being king, he could have finagled his way out of an arranged marriage). So all that is uncertain is Goldanna mom, but depending on what you believe that may not have happened at all. It is possible to assume that he had other dalliances outside of what we know from the books and games, but that is just assumption with no canonical base. And I still wonder at how people are knocking on Maric for boning women. I'd sure as hell bone an elf if I could, but that doesn't make me a bad person for doing so. Rathian Warrior (talk) 12:21, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

face it. Maric is Robb Stark wannabe.--Master-at-arms (talk) 16:23, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

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