I've been meaning to start this discussion for quite a while now. Thedas as we know it is a place with unknown future and unknown past (just like the real world, heh). As bits and chunks of lore are getting revealed, players get more and more background information which by all means constitutes a spoiler for those who haven't played particular games or read particular books. However, this presents some challenges to the wiki editors:
1. I strongly believe that for a lore article to be consistent and readable, the events should be arranged in chronological order as they take place in-universe, not as they are revealed. After the release of Trespasser many articles are a clutter of "we thought this", "then we learned that", "then we also learned that", "and yep, that fact written three paragraphs above turned to be untrue."
Example: Just look at Fen'Harel article.
Example: Some time ago I rearranged the Tranquil article, separating the lore reveals from recent events.
Proposal: Amend the Manual of Style, distinguishing between quest articles that are written as the player learns facts and lore/character articles that stick to chronological order and avoid the phrase "it is actually revealed that in the past.." For fractions with an established view on history (Dalish elves, dwarves of Orzammar) distinguish between legends/Memories and actual events, and create separate sections if needed.
2. When parts of past events are not revealed simultaneously, an editor must hide them under different spoiler tags. When some facts are revealed only in World of Thedas, it is unclear which spoiler tag to use.
Example:
- Followers of Solas then fought back against the Evanuris.[34] During the infighting most eluvians were sealed to prevent an enemy from using them to attack.[65] As a result some servants got trapped in unreachable destinations and were left to die from starvation.[66] Servants killed sleeping dreamers in their beds out of revenge.[67] Solas also admitted that he got his hands bloody.[22]
The first fact is revealed in Trespasser. The second in Inquisition by Morrigan. Followed by different pages of the Masked Empire, then Trespasser again. In order for the editor to comply with the current rules, one must put 4 spoiler tags here, making the text completely out-of-place.
Example: Dwarf article, section "Early Years". I tried to create a
to avoid using two spoiler tags from Inquisition and two from Trespasser following each other, but it got removed.
Proposal: Create a special "lore tag" to hide lore reveals concerning the past regardless of the source. Keep current spoiler tags for events that happen within the timeline of the games and books (Dragon Age), and for separate lore reveals provided that the usage of specific tags does not result in a clutter.
3. As real time passes, it becomes unclear what constitutes a lore spoiler. How an Archdemon is actually killed was a huge spoiler for Origins, but currently some articles list it as common knowledge without any spoiler tag. Is the Joining ritual still a spoiler? Should we hide the reveal about the Brecilian Ruins having been built by humans under the Origins spoiler tag? I have no proposal on this one, but I'm curious to hear yours. Asherinka (talk) 10:39, November 4, 2017 (UTC)
- With more and more installments and new lore being revealed I understand the need for a single spoiler tag in lore pages. Multiple spoilers start to become cluttering and offer no real advantage. Building on Asherinka's proposal, here is mine:
- PROPOSAL
- In the lore spoiler template we specify which games/books/DLCs the spoiler is about: {{SpoilerLore|DATC|DA2|DAI|<article>}} and the generated text is something like: This article contains spoilers for Dragon Age: The Calling, Dragon Age II and Dragon Age: Inquisition. Click here to reveal them.
- The lore template will be used only on lore pages which have multiple (>1) successive spoiler tags.
14:48, November 4, 2017 (UTC)
- I am up for a lore spoiler tag. We could use one on Architect's article as all the info about him being a magister is from outside the games. For a quote we could use something by Aldous or Shaperate workers.
henioo (da talk page) 18:15, November 4, 2017 (UTC)
These are all great ideas, asherinka, and I think well-worth implementing.
As far as how long something should remain a spoiler, well that's trickier. We've never had a set time for when a spoiler "expires" so in my opinion we should stick to the "once a spoiler, always a spoiler" idea. The alternative would be to create some sort of time limit, but I have a feeling that that may be a hard number to decide on. ♫ Kelcat Talk 19:17, November 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Not bad ideas in theory, but I'm really having trouble visualizing how this would play out in practice, especially with the relevant spoiler tags. Do you think you could provide us with a completed dummy article in a sandbox of how this would look as a final product in your mind? Perhaps a comparison piece to match one of the articles you mentioned?
