So with the recent discussion of Leliana still being alive and everything, it got me thinking again of her appearance in the Faith quest for Sebastian's DLC. In that quest, Leliana blames Kirkwall's troubles with mages on the Resolutionists, a terrorist group that splintered off from the more mainstream Libertarian faction. She says that no one will be safe if Kirkwall "falls to magic," and implies that the Divine will be taking some sort of action against Kirkwall and/or the mages there.
It's likely that this has been discussed on the wiki before, but... what's up with that?
Kirkwall certainly has more than its share of crazy renegade mages, and the Resolutionists' presence would explain why Blood Mages are randomly tearing up the streets of Kirkwall in the end game. I find it kind of disappointing, though, that Leliana seems oblivious to the templar side of the problem. Sure, Leliana is with the Chantry, but she was never a Chantry-line apologist before. In DAO, Leliana had quasi-heretical beliefs about the Maker loving everybody, whereas the Chantry taught that the Maker's love had to be earned. Also in DAO, Leliana had questioned the Chantry's claim that the elves started the war that ended with the Exalted March against the Dales. Plus, Leliana had been quite good friends with Wynne, and... despite her other issues with Morrigan... she seemed more bothered by Morrigan's atheism than the fact that she was an apostate.
And now Leliana accepts, uncritically, that all the problems in Kirkwall are the mages' doing, because some Resolutionist thugs tried to jump her? That wasn't really much of an investigation, Leliana. Maybe you ought to head down to the Gallows and see how many illegal post-Harrowing Tranquil you find there?
Anyway, it makes me a little worried for Leliana's character. My worst fear is that they're going to pull an Anders with her. Which is to say, Anders becoming an anti-Chantry terrorist bomber made some sense, what with Justice and Karl and the situation in Kirkwall and everything. That development served its purpose in the game. But it was still sort of a stretch for Anders, and it was definitely a very depressing new direction to take with what had been a rather lighthearted character. And now Anders is more or less ruined for future use. He likely won't serve a major role in the rest of the series, if only because so many people choose to kill him.
I would be very unhappy if, in the sequel, Leliana turned out to be a mage-smiting Chantry fanatic that most people likewise choose to kill.
What gives me hope is that at least Leliana was with Cassandra's group at the game's ending. According to what Cassandra told Varric, this wasn't a group of rogue, "screw the Chantry lets just hunt mages" templars. Their immediate hope was to end the war through diplomacy. That does sound like something Leliana would want.
So... I dunno. It's a damned shame what happened with Anders. Still, the other, non-Leliana cameos were spot on in my opinion. King Alistair being somewhat sympathetic to mages, and suspicious of Meredith? I can buy that. Zevran taking on the Antivan Crows and kicking their collective asses? That's awesome. Letter from Avernus saying he discovered new things about the taint? Super, I'm glad I spared him. Warden Nathaniel? Well he didn't have a huge cameo, but sure why not. Flemeth? Still good-- but stop teasing us with the cryptic "change" crap, please. Merrill is a ditz now? Odd, but she didn't have much character in DAO anyway, so I'm cool with that. New Isabela? Yes please.
But Leliana... time will tell, I guess. At this point the only character whose future I wonder about more is Morrigan.--DarkAger (talk) 16:45, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
Leliana showing up and being a Seeker now actually leads me to believe she is now part of a larger conspiracy type thing going on. A long, drawn out plan set in motion by the "other" side in all this. Flemeth is clearly pulling strings and setting in motion certain events, though in my mind she may not be the "bad guy" really, and only one other person seems to even have an inkling as to what that is. Morrigan. I'm starting to think our dear bard and witch are more in cahoots then we think. With the warden being involved also on any number of levels, save if perhaps he/she is dead. Or something weird like that at least. Being in the middle of the entire chantry would be more than beneficial really, and her beliefs, while pro maker or whatever, aren't really fanatical at all. At least it better be something like that. Making her an Anders would cause me to just bolt the series actually. So here's hoping... The Grey Unknown (talk) 20:07, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
- If nothing else, I will say that Leliana seems to have more insight as to what's going on in the world right now than we do as the player. She says it's "no coincidence" that the Warden and Hawke both disappeared. It raises the question of why she isn't more surprised. Also, I don't get really get the sense that Morrigan and Leliana are in cahoots... but I do think it would be awesome if they were. It would be a sort of cool tie-in to Witch Hunt if that book with the Seekers symbol that Leliana was looking at in the end of DA2 was the same book that Morrigan left for the Warden/Finn and Ariane.--DarkAger (talk) 20:22, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
@DarkAger - I didn't get any feeling of that from her role in 2. Although, I haven't played Faith etc so maybe there's things there that I've missed out on. Without that, the only time I see her is at the end for 12 seconds, but it's what isn't said that's the most important there. I think Cassandra and her merry band are more on the 'trying to just sort this crap out' side of things, rather than with or against the Templars or Circle.
Leliana returning is really cool aspect of the final scenes in 2, and it just brings up so many questions. I doubt she would've had anymore to do with Morrigan though. Is there anything in her scenes that suggest she might have? All this makes me think is that we really need to see what happened in the time between the battle at the Gallows, and when Cassandra and the Seekers are with Varric. There's 3 years there where we have basically no information as to what took place. Firstly, how did they end up capturing Varric? He doesn't seem like the type to hang around when anyone who had a connection to Hawke would be a target, and the interrogation takes place in Hawke's estate. Suppose it just suggests the Seekers are good at what they do.
Makes you wonder who the major players are in those years. Cullen comes to mind. You'd think he'd step up to steer the Templars back on course. So that makes you think there would be someone who takes the First Enchanter's position. Unless the chaos just throws any notion of that out the window. No doubt some others around who make a difference in some way. Anyway, point is, Leliana ends up in the mix in Kirkwall in some way. We don't know when she and/or the Seekers arrive in Kirkwall. Makes you wonder though, she is a spy/bard/sneaky little thing, maybe she was there earlier as a scout or something. Definitely need to find out more at some point. All this just makes me want to see DA3 all the more. To have Cullen, Leliana, Morrigan, Flemeth, etc etc play their part in what happens. S13Kuro (talk) 23:12, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
- No, there's nothing in Leliana's scenes to suggest she's had any further contact with Morrigan. And I agree about Cassandra's bunch-- it's Leliana's involvement in that group that gives me the most hope for my future. But in the Faith quest, Leliana comes across in my opinion as strongly anti-mage. If you're curious at all, you might try looking up the ending of that quest on youtube just to see for yourself. You might end up understanding my concern, or not. Anyway, yeah, I'm dying to know what happened after the Last Straw quest. I'm hoping that future DLC will tell us what happened after the end game.--DarkAger (talk) 23:52, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
I don't think that Leliana came of as anti-mage in the Faith quest. As far as her comment about Krikwall falling to magic. Awhile back Gaider commented on that line, He explained that it was just Kirkwall being in danger of falling to magical chaos, no anti-mage sentiment on Leliana's part. I think he said more which can be found here http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6901812&lf=8.--- User:DarthCJ
- OH THANK THE MAKER. No, but seriously, thank you for that link. I still think Leliana came off as oddly anti-mage in that appearance, but it's nice to know now that that apparently wasn't how it was intended. Man, it's silly I know, but that pretty much brings to an end one of my main worries for DA3. I'm all relieved and stuff.:)--DarkAger (talk) 01:26, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
- It may just be me but Gaider comes of a bit arrogant in that thread. I get that he may be answering concerns, but It comes across of being more like "NO YOU ARE WRONG! NANANA I AM SMARTER THAN YOU!!!" I like Mike Laidlaw a bit more. --SirXblade (talk) 16:35, August 14, 2011 (UTC)
Maybe, Gaider does come off as little arrogant in that thread, but to be fair so do Loselvith8 and IanPolaris. From what I've seen no matter what Mr.Gaider says they go out of there way to prove him wrong or try to make him look like a lair. That's when they are not accusing him of being anti-mage. (User:DarthCJ
I think the mages deserve the freedom to self-determination. Mages should destroy all hold the chantry has over them. I f Leliana truly believea mages are to blame.....well we'll see her on the frontlines....at opposite ends
Okay, I was just reading this and the other leliana thread about her being brought back from the brink of death by a spirit of faith (if you killed her). and i thought maybe they are linked. When Anders joins with justice, his personality changes, his sense of justice is exemplified. So if Leli joins with a spirit of faith, wouldn't her faith be expanded? That faith could remove any doubts she has in the chantry, doubts she has in what she should do in her life (if you hardened her in DAO), and doubts about the templars beinging guilt free in the conflict. Leading to the leliana you see in DA2. Im starting to believe the spirit thing more and more. Who cares if shes not a mage? demons were possessing templars in that one questline where you meet cullen in DA2, why couldn't spirits do something similar? --CarloGrimaldi (talk) 08:13, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
I didn't feel she came off as anti-mage at all, just trying to do her job and warn Hawke what the Divine was thinking. She does seem different from the first game, but there's so many changes that could have taken place it's hard to say why. Xelestial (talk) 19:57, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
I'll give it a look sometime definitely. It'd be awesome if she had a larger role in 3. She was a good character in Origins, just the appearance of her at the end was like an overload of awesome for me. I was totally like =O What's SHE doing there! Her and Cass together, I think would be like good cop, bad cop. In regards to her role in the Seekers, I'm wondering about the ranks her and Cass are. Who's the leader? Is it said? Coz, if not, is it possible Leliana's in charge, hence why Cass has to do the hard yards of interrogating Varric? Cass seems fairly youthful, like, late twenties, and by the end of 2, (I think Leliana was probably like what 24 in Origins?) Leliana would be about mid 30's, so going on those assumptions, I think maybe Lel's the head Seeker. That just makes this all the more juicy. Cass is prob gonna be a companion in 3 I reckon, so Lel's the one who tells her to go with you? Clearly, 3 is going to be an explosion of awesomeness. I mean, surely BioWare knows where we want them to improve from 2. Surely... S13Kuro (talk) 00:54, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
- Leliana is the right hand of the Divine. I don't think you can go higher than that. Xelestial (talk) 03:54, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
Quit calling revolutionaries terrorists. :/HomelyDrugAddict (talk) 10:06, August 11, 2011 (UTC)