This is more than PC it's San Francisco depicted in a video game... everyone in the game does it with anything that has breath... I'm amazed the Arishok didn't hit on me.. Bleh! Liberals rule the world..
The Arishok does seem pretty into you, though. Hawke must feel like an underage intern, working late at the GOP. Futonrevoltion (talk) 17:45, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
Horrible, isn't it, that you can choose to flirt or not with people of the same sex in a game. I mean, what is the world coming to when we can't have everyone just enjoying being heterosexual and being alright with that, it's just so offensive that open-minded options have slipped into our games. What next, will we be able to make choices that alter how our PC responds to situations, how they talk, their opinions on matters? It's a terrible burden, indeed, that we have these options.
Everyone apart from alistair and morrigan, yes! User:Eggy2504 19:37, 27 July, 2011
Actually, apparently everyone's bisexual and no one's actually gay! It's the cool thing nowadays, going bi. Tivadar (talk) 19:00, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
Also, sign your posts, so we can find you and beat you with our fabulously bedazzled homophobe clubs... Mdmayor (talk) 20:10, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
Before either side of this rapidly polarizing discussion gets too upset, let me try and reign this in. For the love of God, keep politics and opinions on lifestyles out of this, or it will deteriorate faster than you can blink. Please. Alright? Moving on, then. I think the point the OP was trying to make is that there seems to be a very high occurrence of bisexuality in the games, such that it seems disproportionate, based on their experiences in the real world. So, the question is: is there a disproportionate representation of this in the games? Should there be? Why/why not? Let's try and keep this civil. Dragonseth07 (talk) 20:14, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
I can only remember 6 bisexuals: Isabela, Merrill, Fenris, Zevran, Leliana and Anders so I feel I can safely say the person who made the forum is over-exaggerating, especially if I name the larger number of straight people, which I can't really be bothered to do as I wouldn't have enough time. I don't understand why there are complaints about all romances in DA2 being bi when, before it was released, tons of people were going on about how they wanted them to be bisexual (I was not one of those people). Welshman15 (talk) 20:29, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
How is this still a problem? The dialoge wheel is not something the characters ingame can see... so if you don't hit on, let's say, Fenris, noone ever notices there would be a chance to do so. In short, you yourself decide who's gay and who isn't. Noctarius (talk) 20:37, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
Finally, somebody I agree with, I can't imagine anybody would have a reason to argue with your comment Noctarius. Welshman15 (talk) 20:51, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
It's just completely ridiculous that you should be able to have a relationship with everyone. I can see having 1 or 2 bisexual or homosexual NPC's, but why everyone? It kind of takes away from the novelty of playing as a male or female character if all the same people are accessible for relationships. Can't there be male characters that just say, "Sorry dude, I don't swing that way" or females that respond, "I'm flattered, but I only date men, sorry." How about there being a completely celibate character? That's a novel idea. You run into a lot more bisexuals than you do dragons, so perhaps the name of the game should be "Bisexual Age: You 2?" LVTDUDE (talk) 22:03, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, it's just so ridiculous for a game to show equality to homosexual people for once, it's not as if they've had to put up with game after game after game where their choice is resticted, I mean how dare they make it equal for everyone for a change, right?
- Seriously though, sarcasm aside, as far as I'm concerned everyone should have the choice to romance whoever they want and I really don't understand why some people have such a problem with that. Sure it's not 'realistic', but as long as it's written in a way that works for the character does it really matter? why should the proportion homosexual and bisexual people in the Dragon Age universe have to reflect that of the real world. The funny thing is though, if in Origins your choice of romance options had been limited based on you choice of race then people probably would've thought of that as being ridiculous and unfair and yet it seems to be perceived as being perfectly fine to restrict because of gender. Violet Rogue (talk) 23:27, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
- I did not say it's ridiculous "to show EQUALITY to homosexual people." I said it's ridiculous to make everyone accessible to both males and females. If you want more than one or two gay or bisexual partners to be available, then the writers should open up relationships to non-party NPC's. The only truly masculine party member is Varric, and women can't have a relationship with him. Anders isn't masculine at all. Fenris may have a deep voice, but his mannerisms are hardly masculine. Sebastian? Please. I could see the little Justin Bieber fan girls liking him. Women should be more upset about the male characters than the men are about the females. At least Merrill and Isabella act feminine. Aveline is more macho than Fenris, Anders and Sebastian put together. Isabella is totally acceptable as a bi character. That's how she acts, "Come one, come all!" Merrill, on the other hand, openly tells Hawke that her relationship with a human would be scrutinized, because the elves are expected to procreate with their own kind. That right there tells you that they also expect elf women to be with elf men, unless they are fully functional hermaphrodites and we don't know about it (or they can have open relationships as long as they still mate, perhaps?)
- I agree with the poster below that says the term homophobia is being used way too much. Unless someone is completely on board with every single aspect of homosexuality, they are branded a homophobe, and they must hate gay people. That mode of thinking is ridiculous. That's like saying, "I don't care for the afro hairstyle" and being branded a racist. Guess what? I can't stand plenty of things that heterosexual white males, like myself, do- and it doesn't mean I hate all white guys. I'm also bald, and if a woman says she isn't attracted to bald guys, that doesn't offend me. There's nothing wrong with people having preferences. There is something wrong with hating each other for things that have no affect on them.
- I really think if people stopped playing the race card, and the homophobe card, there would be a lot less of the true bigots coming out of the woodwork to say hateful things. I find it very offensive that someone could brand me a homophobe because I think a game should more accurately portray the ratio of straight, gay and bi people. There are people open to incest or even bestiality in this world. Should we make every single character open to those sexual preferences, as well, just so we don't offend those people? LVTDUDE (talk) 05:40, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
Why do people always have to get so defensive when someone brings this up? It's got nothing (as far as I can tell) to do with "homophobia" (a word that is being tossed around more than a prison inmate's salad), but with character traits and their believability. Having all the significant characters' sexuality be bisexuality or, as Noctarius said, a choice of the PC makes them seem unrealistic. I just think it would be more realistic/interesting to have the main character be rejected for once, rather than always having the ability to do everybody they travel with.
I don't know. I went out of my way not to get "romantically involved" with any characters. For some reason I find it cooler when the main character hates everyone. AldorianCaptain (talk) 22:58, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
I think they were trying to appeal to everyone. In doing so they made the characters unrealistic. I for one would not care one way or the other if they took the romance options out completely. I only activated them if I felt it was default in the story (The Warden/ Morrigan.) I noticed though that they seemed to try and promote bisexual behavior in DA2, It was so common that I had trouble relating to the whole cast of companions.DarkDabber (talk) 23:14, July 27, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
Dark, I think you hit the nail on the head. They had to choose between a cast that reflected proportions you would expect as a player and one that would allow for whatever any individual wanted to do with their character. Ultimately, since this is a series/game about options, they were almost forced to go with the latter. I'm sure some people somewhere were upset they couldn't strike up a romance with Oghren, or with Morrigan as a woman. And, rather than use personalities as limitations like they did in Origins (Morrigan is straight, and that's that), they opted for more freedom at the cost of less diversity in the cast. Dragonseth07 (talk) 00:09, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
As characters their not that solid either. I mean They change their whole characters by what gender you are and by your dialogue. Take Anders for example, If your Hawkes a male then suddenly Anders is gay, as a female he is straight. And there's no warning. I was talking to him right after you recruit him and I was agreeing with him on how the chantry oppress mages and the next thing I know He's talking about Karl being his first gay love, no warning or anything then it only gives you three options two of them was a flirt option and the second one makes you lose Friendship points. It kinda made me feel they was trying to punish me for being straight. LOLDarkDabber (talk) 01:37, July 28, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
- I agree.... I'm being mindful not to use the word "promote" though... that'll get you seen as hater :P People are becoming a bit too sensitive these days and real world issues are being brought in left right and centre. *Sighs* I miss the days when a video game was exactly that... (DDragonfly1990 (talk) 00:14, July 28, 2011 (UTC))
I don't hate no one. I have never hid the fact that I'm not a fan of those lifestyles, I don't hate the people who prefers them. To me the act seems disgusting and dirty, But never once have I said I hated people for it; some very polite upstanding folks choose to live that way. So if people label me a hater for not choosing or liking a certain lifestyle then all I can say is that it's their own shortcomings not mine.DarkDabber (talk) 01:47, July 28, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
Man, this thread has one of those big neon signs saying "This is not gonna end well"... 189.115.13.165 (talk) 00:50, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
- That's why I had my comment up there, about people trying to keep things together. You may not have been able to see it through the thick cloud of sarcasm in here, however. :P Dragonseth07 (talk) 00:52, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
I think your blowing this way out of proportion. I mean, 1 in 10 people are said to be gay or bisexual, and in my experience it's higher than that, and who's to say what the proportion should be in a fictitious world where things like magic and dragons are common place. And don't forget that at least 3 of the romanceable companions from DA:O and DA2 are elves and for all we know being purely hetero might be a rare thing for elves. Andy the Black (talk) 00:55, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
It doesn't seem like it would take much to put a straight/Bi/Gay preference in the gameplay options. It wouldn't require a large amount of coding I wouldn't imagine and it would make the game more realistic and enjoyable for all. They do seem to overdue it with the gay stuff considering they are a minority in the real world.
--Sweeper777 (talk) 01:22, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
A related question: Does Everyone hit on Everyone Else in Thedas all of the time? Perhaps the answer is it's just part of the Dragon Age Action Game Series. All Action All of the Time!!!
Seriously, sex is good (very good); and people should be left to pursue their own sexual preferences without interference or judgement. Period. But (here comes the but) an environment of any type where everyone seems to be sexually hitting on you all of the time; well it can begin to approach an atmosphere of sexual harassment. Add to that a feeling (perhaps unfounded but it feels this way at times) that people seem to jump on you if you even politely raise the question of whether everyone should be hitting on you all of the time, and it can feel like its moving down the path towards sexual harassment. But I don't think its reached that, and it is, after all, a game. WarPaint (talk) 01:38, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
Ok heres the most direct way to say it. Men,Women,sheep,cats and dogs or whatever gets you off is ok as long as you keep your opinion to your self and don't take it so serious. (joke)DarkDabber (talk) 03:16, July 28, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
Let's not be so serious, before this spirals...I think I can sum up many people's feelings on this subject. Who cares? If it bothers you my advice would be to leave your armor on. It's obviously in the game this way so as to maximize the possibilities. Whether or not it fits or not is really up to you. I actually think they are all fairly accurate. Morrigan would be exceptionally picky and only into guys, though I would LOVE! to see her and Leliana get it on, then both with my warden...(necessary pause)... I personally could never play as a dwarf, or an elf, because I can't see Morrigan boning one of them at all, until maybe the end because she had too... Leliana on the other hand would tear into anyone, as long as the circumstances of the romance, and hardening also if you choose to, were followed. Same with Zevran, without the romance as he should be up for humping a tree if necessary. Alistair...same as Morrigan, only girls for him, with the exception being he would totally do an elf if he loved her. Maybe a dwarf, but I picture him laughing hysterically throughout the sex there. I would be too, but all us guys would totally do it too....DA2...Anders...who cares? He's an awful, obsessive piece of.... Sorry ladies. Fenris, ugh...he's like the anti-Zevran. He shouldn't even be a romance option. They should have made him a eunuch. It would have fit better. At least then he'd have a reason to be so pissed and broody. Isabella...see Zevran. Anything. Anytime, anywhere with anyone not obviously repulsive. She has some standards...just not high ones. Love her...Merrill...mmmm...tough one really. She doesn't strike me as Bisexual really. Maybe...but not concretely. So I can buy her not being portrayed correctly I suppose. The other one...the one who won't have sex...honestly why even pick him up? what's the point? So overall, despite it being something of a cheap and easy way out really, it does sort of fit. (this post is brought to you by too much beer and a 75$ bottle of wine...) The Grey Unknown (talk) 02:33, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
You know, I do have a problem with this. That problem is Anders. In DA:A I don't recall him being gay or bisexual, infact I had him down as quite the ladies man (well at least he though he was). But in DA2, all of a sudden he's hitting on my Hawke and giveing me rivalry points for shooting him down. I don't have a problem with the amount of free loving in Thedas. But common BioWare, lets try and keep things consistent shall we. Andy the Black (talk) 02:39, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
- They've already torn consistent to death I'm afraid. I could see him being slightly..adventurous perhaps? from Awakening, but not the way he was portrayed in DA2. Total 180. Completely unlikable too. The Grey Unknown (talk) 02:46, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
- To be frank, what they did with Anders and Merrill's personalitys is one of my biggest gripes with DA2. Don't get me rong I love 'em, they just don't seem like the same people from DA:O and DA:A. But this is a discussion for another place. Andy the Black (talk) 02:54, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
- They've already torn consistent to death I'm afraid. I could see him being slightly..adventurous perhaps? from Awakening, but not the way he was portrayed in DA2. Total 180. Completely unlikable too. The Grey Unknown (talk) 02:46, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
I never understand why people get their panties in a bunch over this topic. As someone mentioned before, there are only 6 bisexual characters in the entire Dragon Age series. Aside from Isabela and Anders (who admittedly lusts after you in the most awkward way imaginable, even when you're a FemHawke and he's straight) you and your character would never know whether a certain companion is gay or straight unless you explicitly made the choice to hit on them.
How does the POTENTIAL for 4 companion characters to be of one sexuality or the other depending on totally optional dialogue choices = "Dude, why is everyone is catchin' the gay?" How does it magically make them unrealistic? It's not like you have to romance them. Also Varric (who you can make flirty comments with as a FemHawke), Aveline, and Sebastian all appear to be quite straight. (Though I guess you'll never really know with Aveline because of how oblivious she is to you hitting on her, if you decide to do so.) GaleforceRin (talk) 03:43, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
In all fairness there should be both straight and gay romances available in the game. People who don't want their character to be in a gay relationship should just choose not to enter into one. Having all of the characters be bisexual is kind of silly and doesn't always serve the story well, but so far it's the best solution Bioware has been able to come up with to give gay gamers more romance options in the game, especially since they've said that they're not going to have any romance options that are gay-only because the audience for gay-only romances is too limited.
If you think about it, gay gamers interested in a same-sex romance in Origins only had one option: Zevran for men, Leliana for women. In DA2 everyone has 4 choices (if you don't count Sebastian). On that level at least "everyone is bi" does kind of sort of work, if you don't break your brain by thinking about it too hard. It's equitable and that does count for something. I expect Bioware will continue to refine their relationship system in the future. I do seem to recall David Gaider saying he wouldn't want to present people with one of those "romance me or earn disapproval points"-Anders situations again.
Also, I like how this thread has remained relatively civil so far. But like several posters above me, I don't expect that to last, so now I'm getting the hell out of here before the flame war begins.--DarkAger (talk) 03:52, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm glad he decided that. Even with him being straight, Anders pushing himself on my FemHawke was soooort of awkward. I miss Awakenings Anders. :( GaleforceRin (talk) 03:58, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
For those complaining about the "absurd" number of bisexual characters in DAII and how it's "unrealistic", consider that Thedas is not Earth, and thus sexual mores have developed differently there. -- Gnostic (talk) 05:03, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
It honestly doesn't bother me that most of the companion characters are technically bi as it doesn't really affect how you have to play all that much, it barely even affects the storyline. The only characters who really reveal their interests are Anders, who clearly has at least had a relationship with another dude, so being bi is a part of what makes up Anders in DA2. The other being Isabela who discusses how she's been with women, while still being interested in men.
@Noctarius - It's not entirely true that it's left up to you whether or not it's revealed within your play through if a character's bi or not.
There's a discussion with Fenris between just you and him, noting I've only played as male Hawke, where he says something along the lines of "Had I known Anso would find such a fine example of a man I would've had him do so sooner." The line in itself could be taken as either a friendly compliment or a flirtatious one, but it's the way it's delivered that sort of leans towards the latter, even as a male Hawke. There's the option to respond with a flirt back, but as I was playing as an aggressive Hawke I chose the aggressive option. Hawke proceeds to say something quite forward and a bit harsh if memory serves me, to which Fenris basically stands up and ends the conversation politely saying it's over. Now the thing is I was playing a rogue male aggressive kind of pretty evil Hawke and was aiming to have Fenris become his good friend, as it suited the whole siding with the Templars, mages are all scum type of theme that takes, rather than Varric who good guy Hawke seems to become best buddies with, in the first play through I had him become good mates with Varric and Anders, in the second play through I pretty much ignored Anders (for reasons clear to anyone who's finished it), so I went for a friendship with Fenris in the third.
Anyway, it just sort of made it slightly awkward when I'm trying to be buddies with Fenris, and he just throws a bit of a flirt out there. I mean, yeah okay, my rogue Hawke didn't strike up a relationship with anyone, other than Isabela there's no one I'd be interested in doing so with, and I'd already done that in my first play through and didn't in my others, so it wouldn't technically be clear what my rogue Hawke would be interested in, but the characters don't technically know that, so it just seemed really out of place. In the end I reloaded the save and just went for the blue response, can't remember what they're called now, diplomatic? Although that doesn't suit that situation. But yeah it just seemed like, in real life, a person could gauge whether or not someone is gay or bi, which would mean Fenris would've never made a pass on a male Hawke I'm playing, so it just comes across as strange.
But going back to my first paragraph, at the end of the day, I can see why BioWare has done what they have with the companions, it just makes it easier to allow people to start relationships with who they want. And really, including people who have a different persuasion can't be a bad thing can it? It hasn't really detracted from the gaming experience, from a straight guy's point of view. But I'm sure it would be a refreshing feature to people who are gay or bi wouldn't it? I'm straight, and I'm all for anyone who wishes to follow a different sexual path if they so choose.
Kudos to the people not wanting this to dive into a flame fest or whatever. I don't think the DAwiki is really like that from what I've seen, in regards to this type of topic, but it can always go bad when things like this are brought up, always seems to touch a nerve with people, even if it's just because someone says something and it comes across differently to how they wanted it to. But anyway. Keep up the good work people. S13Kuro (talk) 05:49, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
- Eeeeh, I don't know. The exact line Fenris says is "Had I known Anso would find me a man/woman so capable, I might have asked him to look sooner." Being told I'm capable doesn't really translate to a flirt in my mind (unless its 'capable' with some suggestive eyebrow waggling tossed in for good measure.) However, I suppose it could be easy to read it that way simply because you get the option to flirt with him right after he says it. GaleforceRin (talk) 07:27, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
Aaaaaaaand here we go again - in a game full of plotholes, inconsistencies, loose ends and repeated environments, guess which serious business invokes the most passionate discussion? Why, but sex with pixel people of course! Srsly u guys, go get laid once in a while or something. Maybe it'll stop pressuring the brain. Dorquemada (talk) 07:03, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
I agree, I do think they should take it out of the game. I'm cool with it if it's part of the plot but when it comes to picking and choosing "Romances" then it has always felt odd or awkward.DarkDabber (talk) 07:13, July 28, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
- No offense, but I don't understand why you want the romances removed when they're all completely optional. They're not part of the plot in your playthrough unless you make it so.GaleforceRin (talk) 07:27, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
None taken, All I'm saying is it comes across as a bit lame that more is focused on "Sex" then really is needed. Maybe It's just a personal thing but I always felt sex and nudity in games or movies was a cheap way to grab the audience. Saying that they should take it out may be going to far though, I meant it more in the way as I could care less if it was there or not.DarkDabber (talk) 08:05, July 28, 2011 (UTC)DarkDabber
- I agree, in a way. More emphasis on the romance aspect of these "romances" is needed. The system set out in DA2, and to a larger degree, ME2, is incredibly lazy and oversimplified. There's so little actual relationship building going on, and before you know it, the characters are jumping into bed for a very awkward looking tumble. What else can I say, really? Everyone here knows what the problem is, and fixing it would benefit every aspect of the game(s). More time needs to be invested in the development stage for a richer, more satisfying role play experience. Wishful thinking on my part, I'm sure. Michael Largness (talk) 08:33, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
- Dude. Relationship gimmick is by now sort of trademark of Bioware's and a selling point even, given how heavily people seem to invest into it, so I don't see it going away from Biogames anytime soon. However, resources are limited and expanding on 'ships means something else gets cut. Would you really prefer relationship sim part over RPG/action part? As for me, I'm absolutely happy with everyone being bi for my convenience, because this way I get to see optional flavour stuff without getting tied down to a specific build. Oh, and also - I looooove Anders, a fictional character being such a successful troll to real people. :D Dorquemada (talk) 09:00, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
@GaleforceRin - You're probably right. I most likely took it as a flirt because of the possible response. Come to think of it I'm fairly sure when responding with the diplomatic option they just continued the convo like any other, and it's the only time I can think of that anything like it came into play, so I think it's safe to say that basically how some characters really express their sexuality is down to how you interact with them. Or perhaps we're supposed to think that Hawke is simply irresistible? =P
It's not that sex is focused on, it's that the 'relationship' element of these games is a pretty big one, and if you have a friendship with someone, there's always the chance it could turn into something more. The culmination of that is often an act of sexy, sexy nakedness. Or in DA2's case, awkward straddling followed by a black screen which suggests said nakedness. The point in question here is when a relationship crosses over from friendship to something more. Anything before or after that point is detail.
EDIT: Exactly. What Largness said S13Kuro (talk) 08:41, July 28, 2011 (UTC)