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:Great Ideas I agree with you pretty much on all points, That sounds like how I expected DA2 to be, in fact please try to get a job at Bioware and help them remake DA2 or at least DA3! [[User:MrRexfire|MrRexfire]] ([[User talk:MrRexfire|talk]]) 21:17, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
 
:Great Ideas I agree with you pretty much on all points, That sounds like how I expected DA2 to be, in fact please try to get a job at Bioware and help them remake DA2 or at least DA3! [[User:MrRexfire|MrRexfire]] ([[User talk:MrRexfire|talk]]) 21:17, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
   
::I actually did a facepalm at the end of my first DA2 run through (act 3 I actually sped along and missed a bunch of quests cause I was bored and wanted to go do a new game for origins) but I went "Oh... the chick with the sword and chick facing the dude on the splash screens are the knight commander and first enchanter. Considering they are the 2 main factions and the premise for the game besides the Act 3 you could easier never known who they were!
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::I actually did a facepalm at the end of my first DA2 run through (act 3 I actually sped along and missed a bunch of quests cause I was bored and wanted to go do a new game for origins) but I went "Oh... the chick with the sword and chick facing the dude on the splash screens are the knight commander and first enchanter. Considering they are the 2 main factions and the premise for the game besides the Act 3 you could easly never known who they were!
   
 
::I completely agree with the combats and tactics, the waves annoy me, I like encounters much more one reason I mentioned a real world realm (but I never elaborated). Basically things exist and go about their own way, not you are forced to walk a path and hit an invisible trip wire and waves of mobs come at you timed. Also I love the ideas of having a choice to just live in the game do things normal every day things (sleeping around and getting groceries ;) ). I love a game I could decided to level up (basic mob killing), gear up (bosses and dungeons), do the role playing and interact with companions and characters, do a story line (non fighting quests), skill up (enchanting, codex, fade runs for attributes) or a little of everything! I do want it all :P
 
::I completely agree with the combats and tactics, the waves annoy me, I like encounters much more one reason I mentioned a real world realm (but I never elaborated). Basically things exist and go about their own way, not you are forced to walk a path and hit an invisible trip wire and waves of mobs come at you timed. Also I love the ideas of having a choice to just live in the game do things normal every day things (sleeping around and getting groceries ;) ). I love a game I could decided to level up (basic mob killing), gear up (bosses and dungeons), do the role playing and interact with companions and characters, do a story line (non fighting quests), skill up (enchanting, codex, fade runs for attributes) or a little of everything! I do want it all :P

Revision as of 22:08, December 6, 2011

Forums: Index > Game Discussion > If you was the one who make DA2, what you would change in game?
Note: This topic has been unedited for 3042 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not continue it unless it really needs a response.

I just finished DA:O and began to play DA2 (I played it before but dont finished). For example first that would I change is companion armour.I understand that they want companions has unique style ,but thay could create diferent types of unique armour for every charecter.And first question what armours they could have(your ideas) Second is map, I just cant understand why they coudnt create atlast 3 big citys in Free Murch as wel as some Thaigs, and Elven ruins,which of what would answer question that gathered through first game. Third there was no great batle in the end.It would be interisting if Qunari conquere city and you gather armys in Starkhaven with Sebastian and retake city(this for example,you could have better ideas) User:Riman

Romanceable Varric. True Story. That's what I could change. And the chance to Murder-knife Petrice. Oh and.... the maps. Stupid stupid repeating caves... And the chance for more sweet moments with the other companions, whether they be LI's or not. *shrug* Probably some other things too, but thats what came to mind first. Myridd (talk) 22:51, November 28, 2011 (UTC)Myridd

Oh dear oh dear oh dear... you ask such a broad and encompassing question. Where to start...?

I've got it! (Sorry about the list)

  • The elves, they managed to alter them just enought to look like ugly and short humans. Not cool.
  • The Dalish: Not digging the Gaelic accents
  • Anders: Less emo, more DA:A if you please
  • Tallis: Magic eraser
  • Dwarves: Seriously, is that some sort of LOR shout out? No dwarf women? I take it they just shoot out of holes in the ground?
  • Qunari: They seem a little pale: must have bad circulation.
  • The Hanged Man: They really need a better floor plan
  • Talkative Man: Always in my way when I try to leave Varric's room
  • Crossbows: Need more of 'em
  • Greatswords: Feels every bit as devastating as a flyswater
  • Dual Wielding: Warriors have two hands. WHY can't they do that now?
  • Orsino Harvester: Really, we won and you do THAT?
  • Grace: She could be a little more grateful
  • Frankenmama: Why do we need this cliche?
  • Textures: Entirely too bright, and Kirkwall is too grey
  • Shields: They look like cardboard, some of them. (Inspiration for DA:R armour?)
  • Sebastian: Less hypocrisy would be nice... hmm
  • Hypocrisy: less of it please
  • Cullen: shouldn't show up if he took command of the ferelden tower
  • Marethabomination: Really? That's your solution?
  • Final Battle: Staying neutral would have been pleasant
  • Hurlocks: The look much more... comical then before.
  • Genlocks: Where'd they all go?
  • Shrieks: Same deal
  • Sandal: Yeah yeah, we get it. You can blow critters up. Do something interesting now
  • Chantry incident: Biggest WTF moment... ever.
  • Gascard DuPuis: Wait! This isn't what it looks like! As a matter of fact, it is
  • Lady Elegant: If I gave her a coupon for a personality at the supermarket, do you think she would get one?
  • Hawke's one liners: All terrible, none made me laugh
  • The wounded coast: I see the ocean, but there are no waves. Weird
  • Dungeons: This one looks like the last one, and the one before that, and the one before that...
  • The Weather: Why is it always clear skies and no rain?
  • Petrice: I just want the chance to murder knife her
  • Viscount Dumar: Your policy will not work, it was tried with Germany
  • Bows: They could at least have strings, that's not a lot to ask for
  • The Alienage: It's very... small
  • The Vhenedahl: There is nowhere near enough light to support a tree of that size
  • Duel with the Arishok: I would prefer him not to bug so easily
  • Isabella: couldn't even make the DA:O connection first time I saw her
  • Quests: I'm tired of playing errand boy
  • Rock Wraiths: I do want to see more of those guys

I think I'll stop there, before this gets out of hand.--Isolationistmagi (talk) 23:08, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, whilst I agree with the majority of those complaints and most of the rest are completely understandable, I feel I must take issue with one point. How dare you critcise Lady Elegant, she's perfect the way she is and I would hate to see anyone change anything about her, well aside from perhaps giving her a bigger role :P. Violet Rogue (talk) 04:40, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. I haven't laughed this hard in a long time, and it is much appreciated. --CommanderCousland (talk) 02:18, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

I would have the entire thing take place in Starkhaven, with the murders of a majority of the ruling family and NO sister Petrice, Meredith, or Orsino I have to think it would be more interesting. After I sorted out that mess I would make myself king amass my Starkhaven forces and then go "exalted march" on Anders and those Templars/Mages in Kirkwall and get that all sorted out! Slim7180 (talk) 04:58, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

I would have changed the Anders character arc to be more focused upon him maturing as an individual. Actually starting to understand why mages are so controlled and attempting to exploit his position of free agency through the Grey Wardens to bring about positive change. I felt his arc in DA2 was a spectacular betrayal of two of my favorite Awakening characters in one go. I thought of Anders as unhappy with the lot of mages but generally upbeat and not terribly spiteful. Similarly, I greatly enjoyed Justice's role as an archetypal "lawful good" character imposed upon the otherwise harsh reality of DA. Justice's personality was rich in trope, but inserted into a world where his absolute white-knight habits were alien and interesting. But nooo, they just gotta go blow up a church. Why? 'Cuz grimdark, that's why! Awakening hinted at Anders developing a more adult outlook with time and I would have much rather seen that continue, especially with the guidance of something like Justice, than feel compelled to kill him every playthrough for the slaughter of innocents. Hlbeta (talk) 05:29, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I think the biggest thing I would change is the effects Hawke has. As has been said many times on this forum before, you get very few actual choices as Hawke that actually matter on anything but the smallest scale, terrible stuff happens to you and your family for no real reason story-wise other than shock deaths, there is basically nothing Hawke can do to change any of his/her companion's minds on anything, even over 7 freaking years, when the Warden can make his/her companions change their opinions on very fundamental parts of their worldview in the span of 4 or 5 campfire chats and a quest or two. Basically, what I want is for Hawke to actually succeed at things, rather than all the change you cause either be completely outside your control or caused by your failures. I also agree wholeheartedly with Hlbeta about the Justice/Anders thing, what happened to them in DA2 was a serious letdown for me (I actually kind of get the reasoning behind why they turn out that way, but I still don't agree with it or like it), as I was a fan of both of them in Awakening. I'd also make a Kirkwall that wasn't apparently inhabited entirely with exactly 3 types of people: people who need you to tie their shoelaces for them, people who exist solely to attack you in wave after wave of faceless goons every time you go to pick up your dry cleaning, and raving batsh*t lunatics, especially lunatic mages. Seriously, what's in the water in Kirkwall that turns both templars and mages into foaming-at-the-mouth fanatics?! UrLeingod (talk)

UrLeingod, it's not whats in the water... according to the devs it's whats buried in the Vimmark Mountains... stupid Grey Warden prison ruining Kirkwall! Slim7180 (talk) 08:46, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Remove troll factor from Hawke. No matter what you do, it all turns into disaster, even when you are acting out of your best intentions. Its an interesting concept, but quite poorly executed. Seems like the devs probably wen't for drama and grey areas. But somewhere it all turned into a huge mess of disconnected stories. The bright atmosphere doesn't add to it either. You don't feel the misery, the persecution and suffering of mages, the poorness of refugees in Kirkwall. Hell, I didn't even understand in the beginning that Anders got me collecting GOO for that bomb of his! You just see your character jumping around spouting silly one-liners, which aren't even funny (as Isolationistmagi said, and I agree), and messing things up in the process. --Ascendra (talk) 14:53, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Everything but skilltrees. Raoniluna (talk) 16:25, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

I have various gripes, but I'll try to keep this short and focus on companions and companion interactions. I would have liked the characters to be more three-dimensional. All of them seemed very...flat. I shouldn't be able to sum up an ENTIRE personality in two words.

Anders- *bleep* Templars!
Fenris- *bleep* Mages!
Isabela- *bleep* me! Please!!!
Merrill- Social awkwardness!
Sebastian- Maker, NO!
Bethany- I'm bland!

These two word descriptions should have been character traits. Not characters. I did like Aveline, Varric, and Carver. These seemed to be the only characters anyone put any thought into, and while Carver starts out as a whiny punk at least he matures.

Which leads me to my next character gripe: Nobody changes. Putting a little codex entry that claims a character has changed over a period of time is cheap. Show, don't tell. I would have like characters who were willing to consider Hawke's perspective, or who matured based on past events and choices (which were all but nonexistent, but that's another thing I'd change). I would try to implement this type of system, because then in a way you not only shape your character, but your companions. Perhaps inciting bitterness or appreciation or a change in opinion based on your actions.

My final change would be to add more character interactions. One or two scenes per act is not enough, and constantly having to trek to their "home base" was a pain. I did like the idea of a "home base" but not every conversation should have been mandatory there, I would have some conversations available at any time and some that are exclusive to their home base. This allows for more character-companion interaction and better immersion and an opportunity to develop the character more.

I lied this is really my final change, I would also change companion armor. Perhaps make the Hanged Man or the mansion a "central base" where I could swap equipment between my companions. I would add exclusive scenes to the Hanged Man, perhaps interacting with a table would begin a scene of Hawke drinking and having fun with his/her friends, or picking up dates with Isabella, a card playing mini-game with Varric, things like that.

Wow, this turned out longer than I expected. GoldenNightKnight (talk) 16:57, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

This would've made quite an awesome game, actually.The Ranged Man (talk) 19:53, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with GoldenNightKnight, myself. My favourite characters in DA2 were Aveline and Varric (Carver got sidelined early on, after all), because the others just seemed so flat, and inconsistent, in comparison. What was a bit jarring as well was the lack of change to the characters, they seemed inmutable, or barely changed, as if weeks have passed and not seven years. I'm also all for Awakening Anders, and not the whiny emo abomination they made instead of him in DA2.

Immersion-building minigames and stuff that doesn't really affect the plot but is fun to do would certainly be a plus.

The lack of impact your choice has on the game is not very good either. Hawke only seems to truly have an effect on the individual lives of random passersby and such, and is absolutely powerless when it comes to something greater. He's pretty much acting like an action survivor - thrust into the spotlight and having to act the role. For such a great buildup about the whole 'rise to power' thing, there's an awfully small amount of power. He doesn't even have power over himself.

I wouldn't streamline the story like they did gameplay. I don't really mind the simpler combat mechanics, it's not that important to me to have some kind of an arcane battlestation for a character with a myriad controls and options, but in the story, this is essential.

I would definitely erase the Orsino Harvester incident for mage-allied Hawkes. I ranted a lot about it earlier, so no point repeating it at the moment, but it's one of the most facepalmic moments in the entire game for me.

I would actually make the mage-templar tension affect Hawke and his bunch of misfits, and not just be a plot device gathering dust on the top shelf and brought down out of the blue for the finale. Really, he/she's friends with a ton of fugitive mages, and may even be one him/herself, and the vicious fanatical templars don't do squat while he struts right under their noses, with a handwave of him/her 'being important' - well, since when has that stopped Meredith? And besides, it doesn't work in Act 1, and he/she's like that then too.

The sudden shift from the Qunaricious storm of action and awesome to the eve of a completely different (and undercooked) battle was jarring as well. There should've been more 'padding' to cushion the transition. For example, there was plenty of such cushioning during the transition to Act 2.

Overall, I'd make everything more intertwined, and make things affect each other more. I'd give the player more options, more possible paths, as well as make the experience more personal for him/her, make them care about the fate of the characters. The game sure could have been better, there's a huge lot of unrealised potential that could've made it a milestone of modern gaming. Hope they realise the mistake and not repeat it in DA3.The Ranged Man (talk) 19:53, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with all of the above. I just hope someone, anyone at Bioware reads these Forums and relays all these ideas to the devs..

Oh and I'd add that the GUI graphics don't help immersion into the game either. Those reddish-modernish codex/inventory/character screens just don't do it in a game like this. The book/paper background approach in DAO gave the impression you actually were looking at a map or your journal to get info, instead of getting it out of thin air. I had the impression I was looking at a plastic menu, that had nothing to do with the world the game is set in. Just sayin'. (And I hope the trail-of-blood-on-map-loading-screen comes back in DA3)

Also, I gotta say, I hate the new combat system, but only because now, when I try to play DAO again, the combat seems excrutiatingly slow... --Nihilarian (talk) 17:58, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah for me the slowness of combat was one of the only problems with Origins. I would have simply liked a faster paced and smoother version of DA:O's combat for DA2, but Noooo! We had to get a revamped and almost ridiculously fast paced combat system. I really just miss all the tactical variety of Origins, something DA2 sorely lacks. MrRexfire (talk) 21:31, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Well because you asked :P I'll start from the top and work my way down...

  • Character Creation need more variety
    • More races (they didn't want to make a back story they were just refugees past not included since the intro wasn't too detailed like in origins) or have added the additional origins for characters.
    • Elves to me were not pretty in DA:O/DA2 sure slender bodies and faces but they could have done way better, I still cannot bring my self to play anything but a human female unless it was just for the origins story in DA:O.
    • More facial options and body options, (for females the make up isn't that great, less or none looks better strange enough).
    • Family appearance choice instead of predetermined on presets.
  • Bring back origins combat, gearing, etc. I was a Arcane Warrior but was more like a dual wielding spirit/entropy caster.
  • Down play the blood magic is evil, we know it is bad, dangerous and dark but it be great to have some able to use it and not abuse it (like me the main character) I don't play blood mage cause usually the party set up I have is very against it :P but mind oyu I don't want to use blood instead of mana but I want to summon demons and have desire demon magic :)
  • Templar vs. Mage, I am always a mage so I always have haters! less hate please :P
  • I personally didn't like the acts cause if you wanted to go back for a missed merchant item *facepalm*
  • Respecing? why in Awakening and not DA2 (I do not have the DLCs if they came out after then nvm :P)
  • I wanted real international play, I would have loved to have traveled to Fereldan and Free Marches (as well as Orzammar) and see what happened to every one from my origins after the blight.
  • I wanted world realm (no boundaries and no loading screens (unless a dungeon or at least outside the cities)
  • Ever since Origins I wanted to use my new high end gear I earned from completing the story-line either by basic environmental mobs/creatures or heirloom to my next game/character. But I have to admit I wanted a Dragon Age World so that after geared from story-line you could continue or redo certain dungeons (yes, I wanted and hoped for a mmo dragon age/world of warcraft hybrid :P), but after playing DA2 1/2 I looked up and saw it is not planned to go that way. So instead I would have liked a origins da 2 to be more one game, like character import and not just a history import.

Well it is my wishes and may not be all wanted by everyone else :P but some of the ideas I am sure would have been desired by a few others too.  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 07:42, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Hah, having just finished, I have a boat load on my mind:

Gameplay

  • Make encounters, not waves of enemies. Apart from the finales for each Act and the end bosses for the various DLCs, all fights are virtually the same. They consist of an initial wave of spawns, usually a team of fighters, possibly a very pesky rogue who periodically stealths and then backstabs once of your chars and possibly a mage or *gasp* a blood mage. After you kill the first wave and waste all your AoE the next one shows up, then possibly a third, and if it's really near the end boss... a 4th. It's absolutely mindless, takes very little strategy and really highlighted the problems with DA's combat system. I imagine there'd be a lot less bitching about the lack of necessity for strategy in combat you see here so often if Bioware had actually bothered to design encounters that challenged you, and weren't cookie-cutter wave attacks.
  • Ditch the level progression system. Yes it's a hallmark of RPG gaming, but honestly it's silly if you just scale enemies to it. You can still have experience, but make it not just combat-based and have players spend it slowly overtime to train certain skills instead or invest in the effectiveness of an ability.
  • Character armor is actually a good idea, but upgrades by themselves are just... boring. I'd prefer it if say you could buy/find upgrades to your character's armor, but then you'd have to pick between two of them to use. For example, Merrill could add some magical Dalish-made frills to her armor or she could get a really badass Alienage-made leather- but you can't have both. This would be a great compromise between the players wanting to customize their team-mate's armor and those of us who tire of dressing up our characters everytime we find them a Superior Leather Armor in a sack in Lowtown.

Companions

  • Home bases aren't a... terrible idea, but give me quick exits to all of them. I nearly left Anders' quests out completely because he had no goddamn nearby door to his Clinic- had to run half-way up Darktown each time I made the stupid trek there.
  • Bring back the options to talk with them as well. Bioware games have always been story driven; where Origins went awry was with tell and not showing (get to that in a sec), but the idea of asking your companions questions in camp (here would be home base) and actually making them change over time.. opening up new options as you experienced events and your relationship deepened, that was good. It helped you understand the characters as well and build an appreciation for them. I could give less of a shit about Sebastian one way or another... I'd like to, but altogether I had what.. 4.. maybe 5 times where I had dialogue with the guy? Bleh.
  • Romance. Bring it back. I don't even care for it much, but the fact you have ONE romantic scene with your special other all game (unless the ending kiss counts, booring) is like eh!? Origins did it right: each character had a different route to their affection, from what I read it came at different parts in the relationship.. you could sex Morrigan right away but good luck bedding Alistair till you're both committed.
  • Bring back the Origins character quests. Looking for Sten's sword, visiting Alistair's sister, finding Flemeth's Grimoire, talking to Oghren about his "wife". THOSE were the kinds of companion quests you could really appreciate. They really differentiated themselves from the main "kicking darkspawn ass" quest-line and brought a human element to the game that made Origins so special. DA2 lacks that; all the companion quests are... normal quests. At the end you get a snippet of dialogue, 1 maybe 2 choices and Rivalry/Friendship points. Yawn, sigh.

Story

  • Cool start. In media res, running from Lothering.. wait, what? That's not Lothering- that's a freaking cliffside. It all goes bad from there. They should've started you RIGHT in Lothering. If you're a Mage, you and Bethany are out practicing when Carver comes in bloodied and exhausted from outrunning the horde at Ostagar. If you're a Rogue/Fighter, you come in half-carrying him.
  • He/You tells Bethany/Mom what he/you saw at Ostagar *cue flashback, do an obligatory few-seconds cut of Aveline in her division, the signal fire, fleeing*. Carver needs to recover, he's not tainted as you worried but he's definitely fatigued. You spend the next few days just doing normal things... AKA. LIKE ORIGINS. You can walk around town, visit people, go to the pub, sleep with someone that night.. meh. Get to know the townsfolk- yes we saw it in Origins, but there's new people to this game too and it's not like you can't ever revisit it. Hell, a Warden cameo would've been AMAZING (just a brief bumping into them or w/e, and then a response based on your Warden's personality..). Doing a few minor quests with Bethany (kill Spiders, save Dog from your neighbours kitchens- whatevs!), get Carver to angst about you "not needing to carry him" and such.. Talk to your mom, visit your dad's grave. Get groceries, get to know the neighbours. Or sleep right away (preferably an option to skip it all if you're on a second playthrough). I don't care. Just stuff, to get you involved, to get you to feel for your family. But you're worried, if you talk to your mom she doesn't know when you should leave, she's worried for the townsfolk (names would help)...
  • You resolve to go in a week or so. But the Horde comes within a few days. One night you're upstairs sleeping casually. You hear rumbling downstairs and your Dog barks. You ignore it, "go back to sleep". Then you hear that Darkspawn "wlahaahahah". You listen, jump up, grab your staff/sword/dagger. Boom: doors fly open, screams- your first fight, half naked! You all live, Leandra barely saved by your sister/brother (whichever one dies, added drama in the future). You pack whatever meagre things you can carry, run downstairs; fight more spawn.
  • When you leave your house you can see Lothering on fire in the distance, you can hear the screams- you can see the vastness of the Horde. As you run on to the hills from the top you can see your neighbour's daughter screaming and crying (that you could do a quest for) being dragged off by the darkspawn, their family being hung up on those nasty pikes they have near the entrance to their house. The fields are red with blood, and you have to go- you can't do anything, you have to leave it all behind. That's INTENSE, that's THE WAY the game should've started. That cliff-side bit at the start should be where your journey, but it shouldn't set up where you're coming from to start on it.
  • It would actually be fun to end up in Gwaren and have to find the ship yourself. This wouldn't be a long segment, but would allow you to familiarize yourself with some of the politics of Ferelden at the time, see a city mentioned but never seen in Origins, as well as perhaps meet some of the characters you'll see in Kirkwall (not companions perhaps, but other refugees, etc.) Small acts here could give bigger consequences down the line.
  • When you arrive in Kirkwall, goddamnit don't just get let through to talk to the Guard Captain or w/e it was. "All these Ferelden's are being held back, but you're important to the plot so go right on ahead". If I'm a Rogue I should have to sneak behind and go myself, if I'm a Mage I'll have to subtly magic myself in, if I'm a Fighter perhaps I can threaten a poor page guarding a nearby door.. have me bribe people with what little coin I have, use my connections built in Gwaren to coax someone being let in to get me an audience inside.. WHATEVER! I understand what they did was the expedient way, but it sacrificed the suspense of getting into Kirkwall.
  • Once you arrange to meet Gamlen don't make it so melodramatic. "I lost the family fortune" "oh". Have the opportunity to blow up on him, freak out (even risking him walking off- he won't but, you know), have Leandra angry and hurt. He promises to get you in, and between Meerin and Athenril you don't just do one job but a few jobs over a few in-game days. Get to know the characters more, be homeless in the Gallows.. literally remind you you're starting from nothing.
  • Once you get into town and spend your year with them, you're still not allowed in Hightown. Kirkwall is segregated: rich upstairs, poor in the middle, destitute downstairs. You know a bit of Lowtown, can go around (re-)meet people. You don't know Darktown that well, and that's a place you can really start exploring. Have your end with Meeran/Athenril actually happen on a last quest that is a bit much for your character (or perhaps it isn't, and you can maintain your business relationship with them). Something killing someone or smuggling lyrium to the Templars, I dunno. There's so much possibility. But the key is to work your way into town and earn it. You've moved up to a hovel still doing odd-jobs, still unable to get into Hightown, barely knowledgable of what's going on in Darktown.
  • As the game progresses, more and more places are opened up to you.. more to explore, more to see. New things pop up. The city changes- especially between Acts, things should change. There's nothing wrong with setting a game mostly within just one city- what is wrong with doing that is when that one city is static and you can literally go everywhere within the first 15 minutes.
  • Meeting characters should be organic. There should be "secret" characters you can miss, that make playing through again worth it. Other characters you can only get with one of the certain play-styles (you'd only get teh quest if you were aggressive, sarcastic, w/e).
  • I felt barely any connections with half the characters in the game because they simply showed up and told me they were gonna do something. Bodahn and Sandal for instance; he just said he'd help me because I did shit all in the Deep Roads Expedition. In the original DA he did this too- the difference being it was because you were good money. Here that doesn't make as much sense- house servant?
  • Meredith and Orisno also felt just thrown on you in Act 3. Yeah I heard a lot about Meredith throughout the game, it's great to know her. That was great build-up. Then you do, and I don't see that she's crazy. You don't. Not till the end. But other people tell you she is. You don't see more Tranquil in the courtyards. There's the same ones as always. But people tell you there are. You don't see Templars running around town forcing themselves on citizens (as random encounters at night say..), raping Mages (as Anders tells you) and other such things. But people tell you. Goddamnit, stop telling me SHOW ME BIOWARE. Let me see this all for myself. I'm not saying you would see it all were you there- the rumors are part of what makes it so uncertain, but stop TELLING ME and get me involved!
  • Now to be fair, I'm sure a lot of people felt Meredith was nuts off the bat, or guessed that "O" could be Orsino. Fine, I can accept that. But you have to admit, throughout Act 3 spending at most 2 quests for either of them was pretty paltry for the expected drama at the end of the game. You should've got to know them more, understand them a bit- see them as humans first and then let the gradual decline to madness for both really color your interactions with them. Instead it was people telling me they were crazy, seeing they looked unhinged but mostly just guessing this based on what I'm told, then suddenly Orsino's a freaking flesh golem and Meredith's got a lyrium idol sword, glowing eyes and is in absolute hysterics.
  • Finally if you're a Mage.. how bout, ACTUALLY make it dangerous to do magic in public? It would be too tedious to have to not use magic around any templars, but perhaps having a few quests where you need to evade them, rumors about you being spread by others and having to choose between silencing them, paying them off or ignoring them (leading more templars to suspect you). Hell, maybe even making it so in your first year you can actually get caught if you don't follow the steps you need. You can lie about your name and the Knight Commander/Guards never take much of an interest in you, and you can see Meredith's tyranny first hand, meet Orisno.. maybe even have him or other mages faciltiate your escape. You'd have to live in Darktown till the expedition.. Varric can help you out too, I dunno. It obviously needs a lot more thought.. but it shouldn't take two acts before I'm noticed as an Apostate. Bioware could've done a bit better of a job in making it known just how dangerous your position is and how frightening it can be. Bethany's route actually does this really well without all the extra questing, so maybe just fears from your family and the odd templar quests/suspicion would suffice.
  • There's nothing wrong with a linear-esque story. Bioware's RPGs aren't really about sandboxy free choice, they're about two/three paths of various choices that aggregate and in the end produce (presumably) different results. While other narratives before DA2 had sort of funelled endings for these choices to manifest themselves in, DA2 really had the potential to be a whole new kind of beast. Within 10 years, your choices could add up to produce Chrono Trigger-esque deviations that could lead certain characters irrelevant in other playthroughs to become really important in yours. This would've made the game infinitely better. It would require work and cutting of the superfluous, and you don't want it to end without some kind of mage/templar conflict. But the point isn't to be able to prevent the deaths of Leandra, your other family, the conflict etc. It's how you got there. DA2 felt more like choosing decision flavor- blue, purple or red: rather than choosing the route you took to get there. Rather than flavor, it should be about direction: showing how many ways the templar/mage conflict could've come about and really how it was something close to inevitable within the context of Kirkwall- just how you get there wasn't (repeating myself over and over).
  • An example of this is with Anders. Maybe if you do a Jack Bauer playthrough you can ultimately prevent him from blowing up the Chantry. But a few Mages you'd oppressed earlier in the game that might've been saved by Anders had you helped him on that particular quest gang up and kidnap people, etc. Yeah, that's just "flavor of destruction too", and I'd prefer it a bit deeper and more divergent (so templars or mages could cause it), but I'm literally just running my mouth off. If I could remake the game, I'd sit down and think it out a lot more and make coherent. But that's how I feel. The conflict may be inevitable from a narrative perspective, but the journey of getting there is what defines the playing experience.

Blah long, disorganized.. but after having finished it finally I'm feeling dissatisfied and needed to vent on what I thought would've made it a bit better.. -shrug-. The Phrygian (talk)

Great Ideas I agree with you pretty much on all points, That sounds like how I expected DA2 to be, in fact please try to get a job at Bioware and help them remake DA2 or at least DA3! MrRexfire (talk) 21:17, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
I actually did a facepalm at the end of my first DA2 run through (act 3 I actually sped along and missed a bunch of quests cause I was bored and wanted to go do a new game for origins) but I went "Oh... the chick with the sword and chick facing the dude on the splash screens are the knight commander and first enchanter. Considering they are the 2 main factions and the premise for the game besides the Act 3 you could easly never known who they were!
I completely agree with the combats and tactics, the waves annoy me, I like encounters much more one reason I mentioned a real world realm (but I never elaborated). Basically things exist and go about their own way, not you are forced to walk a path and hit an invisible trip wire and waves of mobs come at you timed. Also I love the ideas of having a choice to just live in the game do things normal every day things (sleeping around and getting groceries ;) ). I love a game I could decided to level up (basic mob killing), gear up (bosses and dungeons), do the role playing and interact with companions and characters, do a story line (non fighting quests), skill up (enchanting, codex, fade runs for attributes) or a little of everything! I do want it all :P

It be great as a mage to have more dealings (lots more) with the circle/templars, apostates and blood mage rings, having to escape from the Gallows (or a mage tower), make friends/enemies with factions. Any-who I really enjoyed the read thanks :)  Hollowness | Talk | Contr 22:07, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


My Dragon Age 2 would definatly have been more about a true road to power, focusing on Hawke gaining the support of various Free March city-states and establishing a kingdom. Firstly, Flemeth would have warned Hawke of a great evil coming to lay waste to the Free Marches and indicate Hawke is a prohpised individual who would stop it and will carve the greatest kingdom in Thedas. In order to do this you will need to travel to various city states and make allegences. Starting in Kirkwall you will need to estabish yourself and then take control from a tyranical ruler by siding with the Templars or with the support of the Circle of Magi. Various areas have personal strif that must be attended to, like tensions between a smaller city and a nearby Dalish clan is growing and you decide who to support for the area's submission. Another area has a civil war, or is at war with a nieghbouring town. Starkhaven would be the last and requires planning, mainpulation, assassination, the gathering of allies through backroom deals.

Other possible choices include clamping down on slavery or entering a deal that gives your cities and army a bigger budget, to work on poverty in the Alienages, to accept Chantry funding in exchange for giving Templars and the Chantry greater influence in governing or refuse and cause unrising amoung the Templars. You may have to deal with great issues in each city like famine, the Qunari invasion, a polgrom or general rioting, a Chantry coup or an Exalted March.

What the great evil at the end im not sure about. Im personally interested in a tear in the Veal causing a great number of demons to spread across the Free Marches which you must stop. This also may hearld the arrival of an even greater power, Flemeth's eternal rival.

Overall, it is much more of a Dragon Age game with the rulership elements of Fable 3 coming in.--Ironreaper (talk) 14:49, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


Great evel could be Magisters of Old, as well I think ending on that Mage-Templar war isnt great choise.If that war was so necesery it would be better to make it like part of story not it conclude. Hawke should even try to resolve problem but those "grreater evel apear" and he take the elite army and few of (exept Varric,that would explain why he doesnt know what hapenned) his companions and strike Deep Roads (Maybe one of 12 great Dwarven city) or some sort of Marsh which fool of undead or other Evil Fortress , and almost all of you dead and Hawke himself heavily dameged was saved by Flemeth again. Or he could even died and latter in third game resuracted( like in Mass Efect 2 )<such thing will allove to play for him once more because he became weake again. User:Riman

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