Forum:How Rhys and Eva could survive to DA4 to be potential followers

Forums: Index > Lore DiscussionHow Rhys and Eva could survive to DA4 to be potential followers

Note: This topic has been unedited for 2933 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not continue it unless it really needs a response.

There are some fans who hope to see Rhys and Evangeline become followers in DA4, a package deal of sorts. However, there are two player-variable events that affect them: Whether Wynne survives the Fifth Blight, and whether or not you send Inquisition aid to extricate them from the Red Templars via the Locate Rhys and Evangeline war table operation.

I think they still can be around even if Wynne is dead and the war table operation was never carried out.

First... instead of Wynne relinquishing her own to revive Eva, another Spirit of Faith, intrigued by Eva as Wynne's was by her, intervenes when Lambert fells her. Simple enough.

Second... how could they get out of the Red Templar capture predicament? Eva is wounded according to the description, and Rhys is separated.

Recall, however, that the Vessel of the Spirit power confers a healing burst when activated. The spirit can heal the vessel. After letting the Spirit do its thing to mend her body more quickly than the Red Templars anticipated, she has at them, invoking the "Super Mode"-esque other abilities that Wynne's old power conferred. Add in the din of battle catching Rhys's attention as he searched for her and giving a well-timed reinforcement to Eva, and you have their survival past the Inquisition time period.

To explain the Seekers not exhibiting such powers, it could be from a variety of factors: Wynne was a Mage and thus could have had a magical channel within her to exert such powers that non-Mages do not have (which would preclude Eva doing that, and nix the second survival explanation, though). Or perhaps it requires a knowledge that one is a vessel of a Spirit of Faith to begin with. Or perhaps it requires that the vessel not be Tranquilized. I'm sure the DA writers could figure something out to justify Eva surviving her capture by means of her Spirit.

If Wynne survived to pass on her Spirit to Eva as per the events in Asunder, and the Inquisition extricated them, then all is well anyway.

--MadCat221 (talk) 06:17, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

The "Locate Rhys and Evangeline" operation is available even if Wynne dies in Origins. Eva could survive the Red Templar attack even without the Faith spirit, so what you're suggesting is plausible.

Seekers are made tranquil then briefly possessed by faith spirits. The possession does not last, so obliviously they couldn't have any powers that a person who is currently possessed would have. Silver Warden (talk) 23:27, April 5, 2016 (UTC)

If she survived the Red Templar attack without invoking the Spirit, it would require more than just Rhys looking for her, I think. The Inquisition search mission provides one way, but I'm not sure anyone else would.

Also, I was under the impression that Tranquility was only temporarily reversed when exposed to a Spirit, that the Spirit of Faith stayed with the Seeker, and that the Seeker was immune to possession because the vessel was already "occupied" so to speak. Justice/Vengeance lashing out only temporarily restored Anders' tranquil friend. I don't think temporary possession/communion could permanently confer Seeker powers, either. I was under the impression that the Spirit came forth when it wondered where this human they were intrigued by went when they were Tranquilized. --MadCat221 (talk) 00:26, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Pretty sure you're wrong there. Seekers aren't all possessed by Faith spirits, they were formerly possessed by them for a brief time in order to undo some of the side effects of tranquility. Justice is not a spirit of Faith, and he was possessing Anders, not that mage (I forget his name). But even Justice's presence was enough to temporally reverse the effects of tranquility. Actually being possessed by a spirit, even temporally, would obviously have a greater effect.

As for Eva being alive, the writes can do whatever they want. If they can revive a decapitated Leliana than they can certainly get away with undoing an off screen implied death. When it comes to death in fiction, I follow the "pics or it never happened" policy. Silver Warden (talk) 12:55, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

I know he wasn't possessing Anders' friend. But Justice/Anders lashing out is what temporarily relieved his friend of tranquliity. That temporary effect is what makes me think that the Spirits of Faith stay with the Seekers. What else would make people who were completely normal and non-magic before being made Tranquil in the Seeker initiation rituals suddenly have (anti) magical powers similar to Templars without the aid of lyrium injection? If the Seekers were no longer "occupied" vessels, then they would also not have their immunity to possession. Their immunity to possession is because they already are possessed... or more accurately, communed. --MadCat221 (talk) 01:05, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Are Seekers immune to possession? I thought the Lord Seeker became possessed? --Elshiro (talk) 11:57, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

No, the Envy demon just copied him. Anyway, there are people who can't be possessed and obviously aren't already possessed: dwarves. So why is it so hard to believe that Seekers could become immune to possession without being already possessed? Becoming tranquil severed their connection to the Fade, granting them possession immunity. Temporary possession by a Faith spirit reestablishes the connection in such a way that not only are they immune to possession, they also develop anti-magic abilities. I mean come on, if Cassandra were possessed that would have been made clear in Inquisition. Silver Warden (talk) 16:50, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

What about Valta? Isn't she in a way possessed by the Titan? --Elshiro (talk) 00:59, April 8, 2016 (UTC)

Can Seekers dream when asleep? If so, then they would need to already be "occupied" to be possession-proof. Ability to dream denotes at least a non-Mage non-Dwarf non-Tranquil level of connection to the Fade. Tranquil don't dream, and neither do dwarves, unless some demony-spirity shenanigans is going on (such as Oghren or Dwarf Warden falling to Sloth in DAO). Do dwarves who have been touched in such a way have the persistent ability to dream afterwards? The evidence of Anders' friend lapsing back into Tranquility a short time after Justice's lashing-out denotes that Tranquility reversal is temporary without continuous presence or action by a spirit or demon. --MadCat221 (talk) 19:11, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

All that makes sense, but it is not the way the lore is presented. Being possessed is a huge deal, and if Seekers were possessed, that would have been made abundantly clear. Whatever happens to them, they become immune to not only possession but also mind control by blood mages and are resistant to the effects of red lyrium. Possession by a benevolent spirit would not give them those abilities. Something else happens, something that changes the Seekers in a way that is different from mere possession. Silver Warden (talk) 20:27, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

It is possession if the spirit/demon commandeers the body. What Wynne (and now Evangeline) and the Seekers have would more accurately be called "communion" perhaps. That may be the difference. Wynne's communion was not abundantly clear at first, and yet there she is. And I can entirely see how it would preclude possession as I said earlier: the vessel is already "occupied". Blood magic came from demons, perhaps spirits know how to nullify it. --MadCat221 (talk) 02:17, April 8, 2016 (UTC)