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Forums: Index > Lore Discussion > Homophobia (or lack there of) in Dragon Age?
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After playing through both the Male Hawke/Anders romance as well as well as a Femle Warden/Leliana romance something that strikes me as odd is the open mindedness of your friends and companions towards the relationship. I understand that this is controversial issue and that game designers should tread lightly, but I still feel that this is unrealistic for a game based in medieval times. I've familiar with the lore on the subject and the opinions of the Chantry, Elves, Qunari, etc. I believe that if the characters in the game had a more realistic attitude towards the relationship (perhaps not totally realistic, especially with particular characters) it would make for a more immersive experience. What do you guys think? GarettTheBoy (talk) 01:35, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Realistic attitude? Surely, you must be jesting! Let's be honest, "political correctness" crap prevents that from actually happening. And from what I understood same-sex relations are simply not practical (like elves) amongst some groups in Thedas but population has no real problem with it, so the entire point is irrelevant. Yammamoto69 (talk) 02:03, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Dragon Age is the most overly feminist and gay-friendly fantasy IP out there. Does it make me warm and fuzzy inside? Nope. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's getting pushed further and further to the forefront to the point that it's beginning to overshadow the IP itself (which is a bad thing). I roll with it because of characters like Loghain, Morrigan, Flemeth, and the Arishok. DG should hire a couple more male writers to balance this out.

In game, Thedas isn't governed by our rules and laws. As long as the writing team try to follow the rules they've already established for Thedas I'm good. - Soulofshezarr


It has a medieval setting. It's not actually medieval Europe, which, by the way, had plenty of buggery to spare in some areas.

If no one in the game has a problem with it, I fail to see why the players should. Pearl-clutching is pointless. Landers Edge (talk) 02:33, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think what the OP is trying to say is issues such as racism and discrimination are a central theme of DA so in a way it feels strange that homosexuality is nt looked sideways at. I also fail to see how DA's gay friendly feminist...ness is overshadowing the IP... If anything the romances themselves are becoming too centrally focused IMO (as in, who cares whats going on in the plot I wanna go have dinner with Leliana. --Tabris.the.great (talk) 09:50, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, for the love of... This + link to Gaider's words of wisdom on the subject at the bottom of that page: Sexuality_and_marriage#Same-gender_relationships is why it's not looked sideways at. Yammamoto69 (talk) 10:06, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
Do not forget that the treatment of homosexuality in Europe, and else where, was and is closely linked to the views of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. The ancient Greeks and the Romans had no such views.
There is no reason for the Chantry or Elven to be homophobic because Andraste, and the Old Gods, did not teach that it was a sin. While procreation may be important to the Elves, homosexuality would not necessarily stop an Elf from doing their duty to the next generation. Let us not forget that in spite of Catholic views on extra-marital sex, how normal it was considered for medieval aristocrats and royals to take mistresses... it would infact take a bit of searching to find one who didn't.
I find it strange that your find there treatment of homosexuality odd, given how liberal Thedas are towards women. Alexsau1991 (talk page) 20px 14:12, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
There is also the (admittedly disputed) theory that non-heterosexual people were respected and even revered in many Native American cultures. While largely based on medieval Europe, Thedas does treat things like gender and sexual orientation differently. This is of course primarily as result of the time we live in, but such attitudes are also perfectly concievable. If the game was exactly like medieval Europe, then it wouldn't really be a fantasy now would it? -- Gissur the Sailor (talk) 15:12, April 13, 2013 (UTC)

The use fantasy discrimination against the elves and the mages as metaphors to explore real-world discrimination. I don't want to have to deal with actual homophobia in my video games. I play them to escape into another world. I have to deal with enough homophobia in my real life.99.122.89.227 (talk) 02:34, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

'Tis true, it is weird. I like thefact that the peoples of Thedas aren't homophobic and whatnot, but it is weird that there are no homophobes. In a world where having ponity ears is reason enough to talk down to someone, homosexuality should be too, to some people. Religion is present in the game, and the whole atheists vs. zealots, so why not homophobia, eh? Henio0 (talk) 06:46, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

I have yet to meet a single atheist in DA apart from that Rage Demon in Something Wicked, who says "There is no Maker". Even Morrigan or Avernus who have pretty strong opinions about deities in Thedas are deists, not atheists. They at least assume that, say, the so-called Maker can theoretically exist, but thing is, even if he does exist, they don't give a crap. That's deism, not atheism. Plenty of people who say "f*ck the chantry" also believe in the Maker just fine, and that's anti-clericalism, not atheism. It's kinda hard to be an atheist in the world with at least one active pantheon of Old Gods and the existence of afterlife being empirically confirmed. -Algol- (talk) 08:15, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
Well, The Warden can be a guddam' a-hole of an atheist, say when talking to the chantry sister at Ostagar. :P Anyway, the Chantry still treats everyone who's no commited to their church like dirt, the Qunari crush those opposing them, and the two kill each other for sport. And the dwarves pray to rocks and believe every choice is made by people long dead :P And strangely, not one of those mind same sex relationships. Henio0 (talk) 08:45, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
About the Chantry and same-sex relationships. Now bear with me: Chantry sisters/mothers/daughters/whoever should follow the example of Andraste, who didn't sleep with her husband Mapherath after starting to hear voices in her head and becoming "The Bride of the Maker". Logically, female clergy can't sleep with males and, of course, get married, BUT!!! Nothing forbids them from having sex with females. I mean, Andraste's example didn't forbid it, at least directly.
....One shudders to imagine things happening in Chantry cloisters XD -Algol- (talk) 08:53, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
Also explains why Leliana looked happy as a bear in a honey shop after dumping bard's life for lay sister's. :-} Dorquemada (talk) 10:34, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
That's why they are called _lay_ sisters, amirite? XD -Algol- (talk) 11:19, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

If you're looking for homophobia, then go to Orzammar. Dwarves of higher castes look down dwarves of lower castes. Caste is no natural creation, it's self-proclaimed authority. Dwarves are dwarves and because of the sodding caste system most of dwarves are treated like dust especially surfacer and casteless. They hate and opress casteless only because they exist because sharpers say to do so. In my opinion the greatest homophobes are dwarves.78.8.141.111 (talk) 07:56, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

1) Shapers, not sharpers. I think dwarves like to gamble too, thus there are sharpers in Orzammar, but I doubt they are a major power directing the society.
2)Looking down on same-sex relationship = homophobia.
Looking down on people with lower social status =/= homophobia and doesn't have to do anything with homophobia. -Algol- (talk) 08:15, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

There is some homphobia. There's no same sex marriage. Gamlen and Dulci's girls mock Hawke for being a same sex relationship. If male Hawke flirts with Anders, he says it's rare for a man to do that openly. 98.194.244.255 (talk)

This is a Bioware game, of course homosexuality isn't going to be hindered that much. I prefer how Fallout New Vegas handles it, where there's at least one group (Caesar's Legion) punish it (though some are willing to ignore it, they think it allows for closer "troop bonding"). The Brotherhood of Steel also kind of looks down on it considering that they need more members and don't recruit wastelanders so procreation is the only option. Aleksandr the Great (talk) 12:06, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, in Thedas homo- and bisexuality are not treated as perfectly equal to heterosexuality. From what we've seen so far Kirkwall residents tend toward mocking same-sex attractions. Zevran mentions in Origins that Fereldens can be uptight about such things, while Antiva is apparently more liberal. The Warden can make it clear to both Zevran and Leliana that their same-sex attractions are unexpected and somewhat unusual. Oghren hedges around explaining the nature of Branka's and Hespith's relationship. It's not quite homophobia and I don't think any currently known groups would attack you for being attracted to the same sex, but that's as much leniency as you get. From the looks of things you're expected to keep any relationships quiet and discovery would certainly be fuel for scandal among nobility. The consequences aren't devastating, but if you've got any sort of reputation that could potentially be damaged then it's best to hide your orientation. I'm pretty sure the only reason the backlash against a Hawke romancing someone of the same gender isn't stronger is because the relationship is either kept a secret or people are preoccupied with the LI's far more glaring flaws (Dalish blood mage, known apostate, pirate, escaped slave... gender kind of pales in comparison to all that).

Commoners have it easier, but it still doesn't seem like same-sex marriage is possible anywhere in Thedas. The Dalish and dwarves are too obsessed with making babies, I remain convinced that Qunari only mate when specifically ordered to, and among humans and city elves marriage is a political and social construct entirely separate from love. None of that is based on a dislike of homosexuality, true, but exclusion based on practicality is still less than ideal.

So there is some discrimination. As for why it isn't worse...

1. Thedas is very medieval in that romantic love isn't considered an acceptable motivation for a person's life choices. Duty comes first. Being homosexual won't keep a person from marrying when told to and producing babies with whomever they're told to marry. So there's no social cause to object to whom someone does and does not find attractive.

2. The reason our world's church has always focused so heavily on sex (and things it labeled sexual deviancy) when discussing sin is because it's practical. It's guaranteed to gain and keep an audience and it's one area in which practically every human being is guaranteed to "sin" at some point. The Chantry has no need for it. They have a far more immediate and effective way to keep people in line: magic users and the threat they could pose. Where our church tied the concept of sin primarily to human nature (sex, jealousy, anger), the Chantry ties it primarily to magic and the supposed nature of mages. Consider the story of the Fall and the story of the Black City: Woman's curiosity and Man's willingness to follow her into sin led to us getting kicked out of Eden, while the Magisters' arrogance led to them getting kicked out of the Golden City. Sex does play an important part in Chantry doctrine, but it's nowhere near the level of magic. As long as magic exists I think the sex lives of non-clergy are safe from the Chantry's interference.

Kestrella (talk) 13:38, April 15, 2013 (UTC)


As a new DA player I was overly surprised at the opened mindness of ferelden--Dragon Ager (talk) 06:18, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

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